The Morality of Prostitution

[Dickhead]

Originally posted by purplengold
Can we extend this logic to say that you should only buy clothes from retailers who give 100% of the money back to the poor people in the sweat shops? Guess we're all going naked.

No, because in the case of manufactured goods, profit = revenue - (direct materials + direct labor + manufacturing overhead), whereas pussy has a 100% margin. It is the only thing where you can give it away and still have it.

[Dickhead]

Well, I really don't give a shit what brothel owners are because as I said I rarely patronize them. And, I don't patronize streetwalkers who have pimps. I patronize INDEPENDENTS. I don't really even like "bars" and if I do go there, I try to get phone numbers and hook up later; thus, the middleperson is eliminated and the prostitute keeps all the money I give her.

In my experience, some brothel owners or bar "mama sans" or whatever are pimps. Example: some bar owners in Mexico snag naive country girls at the bus station and offer them "work" and then "turn them out" and make them pay for ever and ever and ever for the "fee" they "owe" for being set up in the business = PIMP. Some are not. Example: In Costa Rica, where prostitution is legal but pimping is not, bar owners charge hookers a "cover" to enter the bar but whatever happens after that is up to the woman. It is a flat rate and not a commission. Do I think that is a manly way to make a living? Hell no. Do I respect it? Hell no. Do I want to cut their balls off? Not really. Maybe just kick them in the balls a few times.

Then in Argentina there is a service where women can pay a flat monthly fee to have their picture, personal info, and phone put on a website. After that it is up to the woman. Is that the same as the Costa Rica scenario? Pretty much. But it is a woman running the business so it doesn't bother me because it is not unmanly. Is it unwomanly? I have no idea; I have no concept of "unwomanly." There is my double standard. I recognize it as such. That is just the way it is. Women just flat don't have the same job opportunities in that part of the world. Men have more options and so should be able to come up with something else.

Also, I don't watch TV or movies and my "image" of pimps is not an image at all but based on 30 years of actual, real experiences.

[Rubber Nursey]

I am totally with Dickhead on the whole drug dealing, woman hating, money stealing, 'slap my hos upside the head' type pimp thing. The very thought disgusts me, and I would be more than willing to put a few of Dickhead's suggestions into practice were I to come across one.

The issue of brothel owners is not so cut and dry though. I have met some brothel owners who most certainly fit the definition of 'pimp'. There is the old trick of providing your staff with heroin - take their booking fee, give them enough for one hit and then they have to do another job to buy the next one. Then lend them money for the cab ride home (because all their earnings went to drugs that day), and they can pay that off as well as buy drugs the next day. I've even heard of this happening to girls who didn't use drugs when they first started in the industry. I know of one brothel that put drugs in food and drinks without the girls knowing it, because the girls started getting too 'fussy' about the clientele and the drugs would 'loosen them up'.

Brothel madams may not physically harm working girls (although it's certainly not unheard of), but there are other ways of keeping staff under control and stopping them from leaving. One place here has been known to contact husbands, parents and adult children of top earners who quit. Because this is a very small industry, owners have also rung other parlour owners and told them the girl has a disease or is a thief, to stop her working somewhere else. Many withhold money or charge massive 'bonds' to keep girls in the brothel.

On the other hand, as a former brothel girl I can also say that some women prefer to work in a brothel. For starters, it means that it's the brothel owner who will take the fall if the police decide to cause problems, not us. They also pay for all the advertising, rent, linen, cleaning, utilities and everything else - all we do is show up and work. It's nice to work in a place where you know someone is just outside the door to help you if a client gets violent. I think that in many ways, these may be some of the reasons why girls choose to work for a 'stereotypical' pimp too. (I am NOT defending those pimps, mind you - just making an observation).

[PurpleNGold]

Originally posted by Dickhead

3) Choose only those girls, of legal age, who keep 100% of the money that you give them AFTER you have sex with them.

Can we extend this logic to say that you should only buy clothes from retailers who give 100% of the money back to the poor people in the sweat shops? Guess we're all going naked.

[PurpleNGold]

So, you're saying that you don't see the owners of the brothel as pimps? What are they then? And, how do they differ from shop owners who hire help?

I think I misunderstood you about the double standard. I thought you were saying that it was okay for a woman to pimp another woman. That's cleared up now.

As for men being physically stronger... I'm 6' 205 lbs. A lot of fat on me these days, but I used to be in pretty good shape. Even, back when I was on the wrestling team, in high school, I knew some women that could have benched a lot more than me. It's really not true that women are stronger than men.

[Rubber Nursey]

You'll never get laid in my country if you insist on paying AFTER the sex.

[Dickhead]

Three rules for maintaining one's morality while enjoying paid sex:

1) Choose independent girls above the age of consent.
2) Choose girls who are independent and old enough to know what they are doing.
3) Choose only those girls, of legal age, who keep 100% of the money that you give them AFTER you have sex with them.

And if in the process of the above, you happen to run into any pimps, consider smacking them around a bit if it is indicated by all facts and circumstances.

[Dickhead]

Well, the last time I was in a brothel was in Sydney about 3 years ago. There was a receptionist who explained the services available, then rang a buzzer to let me in. I then dealt +++ DIRECTLY +++ with the ladies. I am sure the house got a cut but I am also sure they were not about to beat up the ladies if they chose not to have sex with me. Since then I have probably screwed at least 50 prostitutes without entering any brothels. I have had some OK experiences in brothels but I don't prefer them.

Why the double standard? Because I can see some situations, based on my experience, where due to cultural factors and job discrimination there are no other viable alternatives for a woman with children to support said children when the fathers refuse to. On the other hand, I think a man in that situation should mug dumb tourists or steal from parked cars or sell fake drugs to support his children, rather than PIMP his woman. Think about a nursing mother. She needs to eat well to allow her child to survive. A man, on the other hand, should eat dirt, bugs, and excrement to survive rather than PIMP a woman. That is just how I feel. I don't really give a shit if it is a double standard. Men are physically stronger and should god damn well act like it.

Let me make myself perfectly clear:

If a woman wants to sell her pussy, that is her choice. If a man wants to sell his asshole, that is her choice (yes, I said her). If a man wants to sell a woman's pussy, HE IS A FUCKING PIMP AND SHOULD BE CASTRATED VERY SLOWLY. If a woman wants to sell a man's dick, I am available under the right circumstances.

[PurpleNGold]

Originally posted by Dickhead
I don't have any experience with mamasans. That is an Asian concept and I am a Latino monger, primarily.

That's certainly not an asian concept. That's a brothel concept. Maybe the term 'mamasan' is asian, but in the western style brothels, we refer to the same position as the 'madame'. Means the same thing.

I have an admitted double standard as well. I have no opinion on female pimps. It is only male pimps who are so low that their heads should be pounded so far down into their chest cavities that they have to unbutton their collars to blow their noses.

Again with the imagery. I like it :-)

However, why the double standard? That undermines your argument that pimps are inherently evil. A pimp is a pimp, regardless of sex. Would your double standard become a triple standard if the female pimp were a bulldyke?

I have only been to Hong Kong in Asia and I stuck to independents. I always try to stick to independents. Why the fuck do I need a middle person to drive up the price?

No argument here if you feel safe with independents. But, from my experience, the independents are more often rip-off scam artist bitches. Not always, but more so than in an MP or go-go bar. Do you ever visit MP's? There is certainly a middle man/woman there. What about the owner of the bar where the chicas work? Isn't that a pimp?

I don't use SW's, so I don't encounter the street pimp. But, I've had lots of dealings with bar owners and brothel madames. I certainly find no fault in there jobs as long as it is a situation in which the women can quit at any time.

You seem to feel that the hobby cannot exist without pimps.
That, unfortunately, makes you a pimp by proxy and I forgive you only due to your obvious naivete.

LOL Interesting leap of logic. I certainly don't believe that. Nor, would that make me a pimp by proxy. I think that bar owners, and madames certainly make things run more smoothly. But, as you pointed out, there are independents out there. And, some of them are legit (and even quite good).

Managers don't beat up their employees. Pimps do. Managers don't prevent their employees from quitting. Pimps do. Managers provide substantial expertise that contributes to the success of the business. Pimps provide intimidation, brutality, and victimization.

You operate under the assumption that there are no pimps like what I described in an earlier post, and what VT described. Yet, I think you are only considering the low-life street pimp shown in B movies and on sensationalist news reports. How can you be sure that VT's pimp (man or woman) doesn't exist?

"If we assume that prostitution is a job like any other, then why isn't a pimp just a manager like any other?" That is the most naive statement I have heard in a very long time.

I would prefer, 'lacking complete cynicism'. I can understand why the statement would offend if you can't bring yourself to imagine anything other than the vulgar image of the street pimp that you've been brainwashed with. But, think about what VT said: Vilification of pimping is an indirect way to vilify prostitutes.

If you would confuse a manager with a pimp, you would confuse cutting a fart with shitting your pants. There is some more colorful imagery for you.

The two things are non-sequitir. But, I have, at times, wondered if I was about to fart or shit. In those cases, I just head for the toilet to be on the safe side.

Funny how I've gone from tacitly agreeing with VT to defense of that argument. I guess we learn something new about ourselves every day.

Keep the images flowing :-)

[Dickhead]

I don't have any experience with mamasans. That is an Asian concept and I am a Latino monger, primarily. I have an admitted double standard as well. I have no opinion on female pimps. It is only male pimps who are so low that their heads should be pounded so far down into their chest cavities that they have to unbutton their collars to blow their noses. I have only been to Hong Kong in Asia and I stuck to independents. I always try to stick to independents. Why the fuck do I need a middle person to drive up the price?

You seem to feel that the hobby cannot exist without pimps. That, unfortunately, makes you a pimp by proxy and I forgive you only due to your obvious naivete. Managers don't beat up their employees. Pimps do. Managers don't prevent their employees from quitting. Pimps do. Managers provide substantial expertise that contributes to the success of the business. Pimps provide intimidation, brutality, and victimization.

"If we assume that prostitution is a job like any other, then why isn't a pimp just a manager like any other?" That is the most naive statement I have heard in a very long time.

If you would confuse a manager with a pimp, you would confuse cutting a fart with shitting your pants. There is some more colorful imagery for you.

[Joe Zop]

There are very basic differences between pimps and business managers, security guards, etc., and they fall mainly in the arena of control. If a woman hires someone to help her keep her shit together, provide security, etc., that's one thing, but if it's a parasitic relationship where control is in the hands of the guy, when it's the woman doing the selling, then it's exploitive and evil. Going after some woman's webmaster or significant other who's babysitting because they're assisting in pandering is complete bullshit, but someone who's taking a "percentage" while essentially doing nothing deserves every bit of DH's and the law's vengeance and more.

[PurpleNGold]

Dickhead, that was some colorful imagery :-)

I can't agree that pimps are inherently evil. To say that, I'd have to say that there is something inherently evil about the hobby. And, I don't believe that.

If we assume that prostitution is a job like any other, then why isn't a pimp just a manager like any other? Granted, as soon as a manager, in any profession, abuses his subordinates, he becomes scum. But, like VT pointed out, we already have laws for dealing with that.

Also, would you extend your vilification of pimps to include mamasans at a brothel?

[Dickhead]

Bullshit. Pimps ARE inherently evil, worthless, cancerous brummagem until proven otherwise. This means the street definition of pimps and not Webster's fucking dictionary generic definition. Anyone with any experience knows a pimp when he sees one and it does NOT include "security guards." Any guy who makes his so-called living off of some woman's pussy is a waste of skin and a disgrace to the dick carrying race. I recommend that if you see a pimp, you should [CodeWord140] in his mouth UNLESS his face is already on fire.

[PurpleNGold]

VT,

In my post, I was trying to say that pimps aren't inherently evil. So, I guess I was siding with you to some degree. The problem is, any experience I've had concerning pimps (including the media) has been negative. So, I just don't think there are many out there who are anything but scum.

[Sixtynine]

Just thinking about pimps conjures up negative images as we have seen portrayed in movies and the likes. Shallow, vulgar creatures who dress poorly and treat their women badly all the while most importantly, jacking up the price mongers have to pay.

I suppose that is the only real reason I dislike pimps is that he is the middleman and is standing in the way between you and what you want. If the girl is providing the service, than she should receive the bulk of the pay. Therefore, the girl does not enjoy it as much as she is getting less but since you paid more you are expecting possibly more. That is a losing situation for both sides. Best to pay the girl directly and both be happy when you can. If she is upset with the amount then she can be discontent with you. I would hate it if a girl was discontent because the price her pimp put on her and then passed on that bad service to me but then again, I had only negotiated with one pimp before and that was in Singapore.

It is simply something we always do, try to find out the supplier and go direct. Looking at how many people order the same product of online rather than go to the neighborhood Wal-Mart.

Lastly, a question to throw out to you, do you consider touts to be pimps? Afterall, they get commission and can lead you to the girls even though they normally do not provide the girls security for example.