The Morality of Prostitution

[Rubber Nursey]

I am pretty sure (as you mentioned) that they have added certain things for the sole purpose of having clauses to strike out. I'd say this whole thing is being done because of one of the two options you gave (deliberate sabotage or a means of getting her way by seemingly bowing to pressure and removing certain aspects), but I'm not sure which one it is. She has been so very cagey about everything, and she keeps baiting us in the media to make us look like we have nothing to complain about. She is also trying very hard to create controversy...for example, on mandatory testing.

Last year she said that mandatory testing would be part of any new prostitution legislation that her Government created. The thing is, any attempt to introduce mandatory testing has been thwarted in every other state, due to legal arguments and health authority recommendations. She has said in the media THIS time...waaaaay too many times already...that mandatory testing will NOT be included in the new draft. This statement, repeated over and over, has caused a furore within the general community, who obviously believe that the "vectors of disease" must be controlled by legislation. I'm not sure whether this is an attempt to somehow get mandatory testing included in the draft, or whether it's just another way to get the draft bogged down in community debate so it won't be passed at all.

What they have basically done is take all the worst parts of Victoria and Queensland's legislation, and added bits to make them even more harsh. It all comes down to an abolitionist approach...make it too hard for the girls to work legally, and they will leave the industry for good. The depth of their stupidity is truly astounding.

One thing is sure though...she certainly didn't "mislead" us in any way. In fact, they have made it quite clear since the beginning that they would NOT be listening to us, that we were NOT going to be able to make recommendations and that our opinion is not in any way valid or even welcome. Little do they know....that attitude only makes me wanna fight harder. *grin*

[Joe Zop]

It will be interesting to see if the legislation as released actually looks like the nightmare you describe. And more interesting to see what happens once people get their hands on it and start revising. The good news is it's pretty hard to imagine that it can get any worse, so any changes will soften things; the bad news is it's going to take a ton of softening to make this at all palatable.

Sounds to me like the political question boils down to this -- either she wants to hide safely behind the draft of the legislation by being able to say, after legislation actually gets through that's different, hey, don't blame me for all these problems, I sent a very different bill through, or the intent is basically to sabotage the process of getting a bill passed entirely by putting forward something so radically unpalatable that it's impossible to move forward, and be able to say, hey, I tried. Either way it's rather clear that if you were her supporters you were pretty badly misled.

I can see the school and church thing -- there are similar things here regarding adult businesses, including those serving alcohol -- but to put publs on that list is obviously pretty stupid. Again, that may be the troll that gets struck out to make the rest stay. (That's usually how I tend to look at draft legislation, which I've done a fair amount of -- look for the places where it's pretty clear that something's thrown in for the sake of having something to cut later when needed, so you can say you're making concessions.)

It would seem to me that one proper tactic would be the drafting and public release of an alternative draft -- are your affilliates and your organization up to that? This legislation establishes a hard-line approach; you need to make clear the opposite so there's something concrete to debate and a look at an alternative.

[Rubber Nursey]

Oh, just out of interest....the sex industry, the residents groups, the general community, the church and even the opposition political parties, DO NOT WANT THIS LEGISLATION.

With every single person in the state opposed to the proposals for various reasons, you can't blame me for being suspicious about this stupid woman's motives. Our taxes pay her wages. Does she really think she's gonna win at the next election if she manages to [CodeWord140] EVERYONE off?? The thought of the ulterior motives...that she MUST have, because nothing else could explain this....is scaring the pants off me!! I'm scared we are being railroaded for a reason....

[Rubber Nursey]

Well Joe,

As a matter of fact, the excrement hit the proverbial fan just last weekend. The draft is due for release any moment now. For the record, I would like to mention that only a couple of weeks after a meeting with the Minister's office...in which we were told they could NOT discuss ANY aspect of the new legislation with us....they released the information to the media!! And...they did it on our day off!!! It is a LOT worse than we could have ever imagined...

*There will be a Prostitution Control Board who will oversee regulation of the industry, consisting of police, health ministers, barristers, council members and doctors....NO SEX WORKERS OR SEX WORKER REPS.

* Brothels will be licensed and forced to follow very strict guidelines:
- There will be a comprehensive "screening" process before granting someone a brothel license, which is apparently being done to keep the "criminal element" out of the industry. (It is this screening that has led to ex-hookers being refused a license in other states). The strict guidelines have meant that in other parts of Oz, the only people who can get a license are those with ridiculous amounts of money, and some political clout. Because of this, most parlours in those states are run by MEN and there has been a dramatic increase in the level of organised crime and syndicates involved. (Ummm isn't that what they are trying to avoid???) Currently, there is basically no such thing as organised crime in the industry in my state.
- Brothels are being forced into light industrial areas, (meaning far away from transport, food, health supplies and police patrols) , and will not be able to operate within 300 metres of a school, childcare centre, church, dwelling, or PUB. At least two-thirds of our established brothels will violate this regulation.
- There will be no provisions made for brothels in local council by-laws...this means that even if your application for a brothel is approved and you are licensed, the council can still refuse you a permit or shut you down.
- Even though they will be legal businesses, brothels will not be able to advertise for staff, advertise services using words like "French" or "Greek" or show any part of the body below the shoulders in their ads. (This is in spite of the fact that adult shops and strip shows are still allowed to advertise and show full body shots of women in their advertising).

*Sex workers will be classed as employees, and as such will be eligible for both Occupational Health and Safety and Industrial rights. (WE ALREADY HAVE ALL THIS!!! This part was thrown in to make it look like the Government was doing something in our favour). As employees, we will also qualify for sick pay, long service leave and minimum wages. (WTF???? How do you make up an award wage system for what are essentially independent workers, without capping wages or prices??? Sick pay is an absolutely ridiculous and unworkable idea...and long service leave for hookers???? LMAO!!!!)

And this is the worst stuff....

* ALL SEX WORKERS MUST BE LICENSED AND REGISTERED. Our idiot minister has said that their aim is to stop the drugs and crime with this registration...this means that they can DENY someone a sex worker license!!!
* Those licensed, registered sex workers must carry a WORK CARD, that must be presented to police and clients on demand!! (Don't even get me started on forcing people to be card carrying prostitutes...)
*Workers will be registered to particular premises (trapping them there even if they are suffering bad working conditions, or forcing them to stop work completely if they are fired, until they can be re-issued a license for another house).
* It will become officially legal to work in your own home, BUT you will still have to be in the house that you LIVE IN and you must be ALONE at all times! (That is something that even the Vice Squad wanted changed, but it hasn't happened). To add further insult, there will be no local council provisions for this situation either...meaning that the council can stop you working or refuse you a permit, even though you are licensed and not committing any offence.


Other bits in the proposed draft...
* Up to 14 years imprisonment for operating outside the legal system. (That would include someone who just works for one day to earn emergency rent money).
* Sex workers face huge fines and even imprisonment for providing a service whilst infected with an STI. (The way this is worded, it seems to mean that they are presumed to know even if they don't AND that it makes no difference what type of service is provided).
* And the big one...inclusion of the Prostitution Act 2000 in it's entirety. This means that even though people are licensed and legal, police can still enter without a warrant, detain without charge, practice entrapment AND sex workers still do not have the right to remain silent and they are guilty until proven innocent.

My office has gone INSANE and my entire life is going to have to be put on hold for quite a while....

[Joe Zop]

So, RN, any update on the legal situation in your neck of the woods? When last we left our heroine was tied to the tracks with the train coming, and the elected officials were hemming and hawing over whether or not undoing the ropes would be a smart or harmful political act...

[Darkseid]

I bet that fifty year old prude never even talked to a prostitute or even been to a brothel. Books like that should be burned. A book like that should AT least be written by a guy who had a negative experience with prostitutes. That to me would be a more credible book than a book written by a penguin who can't get any. I would like people to know the truth about prostitution that is why I can't wait for you to write a book. The negative aspects of prostitution especially the point of view from these dumb ass moralists cover up the positive side of prostitution, that is why ONLY in America, a prostitute is a criminal. All other countries just consider a prostitute a sex worker.

[Rubber Nursey]

Terry...I have had heaps of trouble accessing this board, and when I finally do get here, I often have all manner of error messages appearing when I try to post. I have now got into the habit of copying the entire message before clicking on the submit button, just in case it doesn't work. If the massage fails, I go back to the first page and start again, then paste the message back in again. It's a pain, but it means I haven't lost any posts for a while now.

re: prostitution books. There was one released in Australia a few months ago, called Conversations in a Brothel (I think? My memory is failing me), which could have been a marvellous book if it hadn't been written by someone who was obviously so morally opposed to prostitution. It contained so many positive, wonderful messages from sex workers, brothel owners AND clients...but every positive comment was followed by pessimistic and judgemental narrative from the author. Every comment she wrote seemed to have a "Yes, they believe they are empowered and happy...but don't forget how destructive this occupation could have been to their perception of happy" type message in them. She may as well have had a take everything these victims of society say with a grain of salt disclaimer written in the front of the book.

Interesting side note...this book was sold SEALED IN PLASTIC. Other books containing references to sex where sitting right next to it, able to be flipped through before purchase, but a prostitution book is obviously taboo. Also, the cover had a picture of what looked like a seedy motel room on it, even though her interview process took her into some of the most expensive and glamourous brothels in the country. People like this woman (a fifty-something, prudish journalist who has never had anything to do with the sex industry) have no place writing books on the matter, in my opinion. They only serve to perpetuate the myths, and discourage sex workers from telling their stories for fear of misrepresentation. Or maybe that was the whole point of it....

[Joe Zop]

VT, I think there was some overall trouble with the board, which appears to have cleared up for the moment.

So much of this comes down to one person/group's opinion about how we all ought to live, which works its way via political action into legislation. The religious right in the US, for example, has focused for the last decade on local elections as a way of imposing their viewpoints on society. Just look at some of the complete idiocy that's come about in school boards and you'll see the effect, and the intent is to chrurn out another groups of clones to carry on the process.

Personally, I've always thought the "limit-based" approach was the one endorsed in free societies, as opposed to the "righteous lifestyle" one which posits that people ought to behave in this or that particular way. The limit-based approach says, I don't care how you behave, as long as you don't do this. Those are vastly philosophical takes on things, and I'd far rather be arguing over the definition of the limits than the idea that we should operate within that general framework as opposed to the proscribed lifestyle one. Unfortunately, when people in general become disaffected by the political system, there is a tendency toward conservatism, which favors the latter philosophy.

So go for it, RN, and not only on the book but on holding your politicians feet to the fire -- gently at first, to get their attention -- as involvement in societal dialogue is what helps define the framework under which we all get to live. And a good book on prostitution as a positive process would go a long way to challenge or dispel some of the presumptions out there.

[Darkseid]

it is these same prudish conservative nincompoops that take away our freedom in america. what happened to the pursuit of happiness? i am not happy and everyone on this board is not happy. even a majority of america is not happy with these laws favoring these conservative moralistic assholes. it's just that no one wants to come out and oppose them or they will get arrested. let's face it, america is about the pursuit of the moralist's happiness, not ours. it is the moralists that run our government and that is sad and pathetic. we claim what we are not- land of the free. yeah right! the only good reason to come here is to make money. yes we can make lots of money here, but us pleasure seekers have no way to spend it because since prostitution and drugs are illegal, we have no way of spending our money. we end up saving it and becoming grumpy old men with shotguns and rocking chairs who would shoot anyone who tresspasses on our lawns because we can't do what we love to do- have sex or smoke pot (for some of us). at least in holland you can smoke pot or do prostitution. in brazil, prostitution is legal. this is what i think of america- land of opportunity, yes, land of freedom-no.

[The Virgin Terr]

i'm experiencing difficulty posting a message to this thread. has anyone else had trouble? i just tried to send a post which apparently was lost in space, so i'll repeat it in briefer form.

most people i think are pathetically ignorant and unconsciously hypocritical on subjects in general dealing with what moralists term "vice". for example i know someone who tries to get me buzzed on alcohol who would be shocked and offended if i encouraged him to smoke pot with me. i know this because i've seen him deride stoners while simultaneously belting a few drinks down. drug war officials similarly are oblivious to the hypocrisy of using nascar race drivers who accept sponsorship money from big beer companies in commercials urging youth to "say no to drugs." the same idiocy holds true with prudish attitudes condemning prostitution. i've given up for now in trying to understand why so many people are jerks, but i do think it's worth the effort to reach out to the minority who like myself feel isolated by all the moralistic nincompoops around us, so i wish you success with your book project, rn, and hope you can keep people like me in mind as your target audience, rather than those sanctified moralists whose disapproval you expect, while writing it. if you can manage to articulate eloquently how working as a prostitute improved your life as well as others you write about, that's what you should do.

[Darkseid]

RN, people in this prudish country will always have false assumptions about prositutes because Americans are very ignorant. All prudes are ignorant and will always be so. Most of them never even talked to a prostitute so these ignoramouses pass laws illegalizing prostitution which is something they'll never understand. There will always be false assumptions that all prostitutes were from broken homes, abused relations from ex-boyfriends or parents, poor neighborhoods, or drug users. But most prostitutes I went to in foreign countries where there is less ignorance do prostitution to raise a kid, pay for college, or pay off a loan or some just like to have sex (nothing wrong with that. :-)). Most of them are not from poor families, broken homes, abusive relationships, or are not drug users. These are the perceptions of ignorant American parents, politicans, and other such conservative groups. Some of them, like the women from Centaurros in Rio, are from rich families who do this just as a job that they like. There is nothing wrong with being a prostitute. As I said in a previous post, I would date one over a conservative American prude. They are at least much more open-minded than a conservative prude girl. I wouldn't blame you if you omit the bad side of prostitution from your book because people are stupid enough to make those assumptions here in America. But I would like you to write the truth about prostitution and the good reasons why people do it. Yes, some women do it for the money and prostitution is a way to make the money to pay off a college loan especially if you have no qualifications until you get a degree (a catch 22 situation we all face in the job market). But others love sex and so does everyone else on the planet (even prudes but they are too cowardly to admit it). Keep posting RN, I agree with your points of views and I'll always back you.

Darkseid

[Dickhead]

Sounds like Studs Terkel's "Working," only for SWs!

[Rubber Nursey]

Terry,

There is also another one I know of called "From Bordello to Ballot Box" written by Jessi Winchester, an ex Nevada prostitute. (I haven't read that book, but I've talked to Jessi online). "Working" by Delores French is a fantastic book. I would love to write a "my life as a prostitute" type book...mainly because as you said there are only a very small number of them around...but I honestly didn't have the type of experiences that you would need to have had to write a book about it! Delores French worked all around the world and had an amazing story to share. My life is very ordinary, and my working life was even MORE ordinary. The other thing is that my life as a teenager was pretty screwed up...and that was completely my fault and I do NOT, under any circumstances, believe that my being a rebellious teen had anything to do with my future choice to enter the industry. But that is not how readers would see it. People are always searching for a "reason" why prostitutes do what they do..and any story about my younger days would only reinforce that negative view. I would only include parts of my life that I believed was relevant...and I don't think being a sl*t as a teenager is relevant! LOL

The strange thing is, I realised what I was doing to my life...straightened myself up and found my inner strength...and THEN became a sex worker as a positive step towards improving my life. I paid for my education, furnished my home and "found" myself while I was working. But people would not understand that...no matter how well I wrote it. They would only come to the conclusion that my somewhat "colourful" past led to my becoming a sex worker...reinforcing the "victim of society" image.

I won't be writing about my experience in the industry as such...but I will be including my story along with the stories of others. Basically, I intend on putting a whole lot of women's lives on paper...street hookers, brothel workers, private workers, B&D mistresses, massage parlour workers...even skimpy's, strippers and probably clients. My story will be in amongst it, and my narration will string the thing together...so it will be a very positive view of the industry as a whole. Mind you, that doesn't mean that I will ONLY write about positive stuff...in fact I want people to be able to see both sides of the story, so that they will realise how diverse our experiences are. But when there are bad experiences to be written about, I want the girl to be allowed to explain WHY they had bad experiences...not just put it down to "perils of the job" like so many other people do. For example, to be treated like crap by an employer is NOT just part of being a prostitute, like people seem to think. It is because of the absence of good labour laws for sex workers and industrial protection...and because of illegality. They are the sort of points I want this book to make. And also how good the industry can be when you are able to work in a positive environment.

Sorry to ramble...I'll be sure to let y'all know as soon as it hits the stands! lol

[The Virgin Terr]

RN, are you thinking of writing a book about your experiences working? i can only think of 2 similar books offhand (working by dolores french, and from cop to callgirl by norma jean almodovar), and they were both excellent. it seems the job is inherently interesting, and any additions to the too small genre of "my life as a prostitute" books would be welcome, in my opinion, and if well written, likely successful.

[Rubber Nursey]

jwny72,

hooker isn't an offensive word for it, is it?

Not to me. It takes a hell of a lot to offend me, so don't worry. Call me anything you like....just don't ever call me cheap! LOL
And thank you for your comments on my telling future partners about my past. I know it may seem as though it's a very simple matter or honesty and trust, but for me the potential consequences seem overwhelming...not to mention the point where I actually have to utter the words! That said, I have two main goals in life...to be an author and to get into politics. Achieving either of those things would mean public exposure of my sex industry experience. If I was to meet "The One" after that happened, I guess it wouldn't matter! But if I don't end up following either of those paths, I will just have to try and find the words when the time comes.

darkseid,
I also live in a conservative country full of prudes and it drives me insane how small minded some people can be. Your posts contained heaps of great arguments for decriminalisation...if only the Government would get past the "morality" issues and look at the situation from all the other angles that you mentioned.

Joe,
Just noticed that you edited your other post...yes the email addy is still valid