The Morality of Prostitution

[Joe Zop]

"Freedom of pleasure" -- I like that, darkseid. A kind of specific definition of the latitude needed for the pursuit of happiness. Guiliani was a fascist, in my book, and NYC is well rid of him. It's sad to see what happened to the city's joie de vivre and sense of style under his watch, and all those Disney characters in Times Square represent a far more tawdry kind of whoring.

It's a primary election day where I'm at, and I always figure that's one of my chances to help make change in terms of who's making decisions about how I get to live my life, and the exercise of this right is far easier than many others. I encourage you all to do likewise -- if the last American presidential election showed anything, it was that a small number of votes can still make a difference in the big scheme of things.

[Darkseid]

Originally posted by CBGBConnisur
If you're sick of prudes, my only suggestion would be to go to Europe.

I do take your advice CBGB and every vacation week I have I spend out of this prude country in Holland or Brazil. I work in the phone company and I get only three weeks of vacation each year (cheapskate Verizon!).I want to hear about your experiences overseas so I can get some suggestions on where to go on my next trip to Europe. I also want to know what's legal (drugs, or prostitution). Wat is the best European country you visited?

[Darkseid]

i agree with everyone here that not just american women are prudes but there are many american men prudes as well. unfortunately, these pests make it to our office and invade the funseekers' territory. take for example, mayor rudy guliani. he took away all the sex shops of new york and now [CodeWord123] has doubled since he ran new york this way. to add insult to injury, he lives a double standard by having an affair. prudes are the worst kinds of people in the world. they take away all the rights of peasure seekers. most prudes are jealous of the more beautiful women and handsome men and they can't get any so they seek to take away the fun we have. rudy guliani is worse than those types of prudes. he is the selfish type. he has access to pleasures as mayor but he seeks to keep all the pleasures for himself and deny others. nothing is legal in new york. prostitution is illegal, recreational soft drug (such as pot or hash) is illegal, even some massage parlors have been shut down for being acused of prostitution, (i'm talking about back rubs!). these prude politicians have gone too far and have taken away our freedom of pleasure. what is left to do in america is eat food and get fat and watch tv and movies, or decorate oneself with jewelry, clothes and exercise (my option). but most americans especially the poor could only do the first. they can't afford the latter lifestyle, some can't even aford a gym membership or don't have enough space for a home gym. the united states can be free in other aspects like commiting crimes or living like a slob (dogshitting on streets or graffiti) but for us pleasureseekers, the united states is not a suitable country for us. to prove my point, look at the smaller number of posts in the united states forum compared to the huge number of posts of people getting laid in the european or south american posts. sex is more accepted in these countries than in the united states. prostitution and sex is frowned upon in this prude country of usa. i, on the other hand, respect the prostitute for trying to make an honest living and supporting their children and for creating a less sexually desperate environment in foreign clubs. i have thought of leaving this country for south america or europe but i need money to do that in case some of you wonder why i stay in this place of prudes.
rn, those who don't accept you for having been a prostitute is not worth your time. you deserve a more forgiving and loving boyfriend like myself. having you would be a trillion times better than having a prude that don't want to have sex at all (i had a few of those and dumped them). it is unfortunate that our american society is so uptight about prostitution and sex in general. in amsterdam, some of tose window girls are married and their husbands are lax about what they do. america needs to loosen up and party.

[Jwny72]

Originally posted by CBGBConnisur
If you're sick of prudes, my only suggestion would be to go to Europe.

OK CBGB, you've finally made a statement about which I don't catagorically disagree. You're catagorizing Americans as prudish, and not just the women in America. You finally make some sense :-)

darkseid,
You really nailed it when you wrote this:

"I sense desperation in American clubs with American men because there is no outlet to meet the daily (weekly or monthly) quota of getting laid. The women in turn would think that these guys are desperate creeps."

Of course!

RN,
I hope I don't seem presumptuous, but I think you've made the right choice in deciding that your future mate will have to accept your having worked as a hooker or take a hike (hooker isn't an offensive word for it, is it?). In my estimation, honesty is always best, and when it's not possible for one to be honest because the other person doesn't want to hear it, then it's not a valid, workable relationship anyway.

On another subject, when you wrote about your adolescent years and mentioned "ignoring your female-instinct", I believe that what you referred to is something that men have too; they're more apt to ignore it though. Intuition is not gender related really. As children are taught to adopt either male or female roles, the degree to which Intuition plays a role in their lives is defined. I'm sure you knew this though since you put "woman's instinct" in quotes. Or perhaps you didn't know it consciously, but rather... ;-)

[CBGBConnisur]

If you're sick of prudes, my only suggestion would be to go to Europe.

[Darkseid]

rn, i am glad you are for the decriminalization of prostitution. this country is controlled by prudes and it is so conservative it makes me sick. and they call this the "land of the free" what a double standard. free for what? oh yeah, free for racists to spreak their hate, neo-feminists to dominate men, and prudes to take away the rights of fun loving people like ourselves. other countries accept prostitution as a job and even their parents know about their daughter's line of work and have no problem with it. i praise some of them because instead of stealing or killing for money, they do this for money to go to college or to raise their kids instead of abandoning them. decriminalization also makes prostitution safer because prostitution would not fall into the hands of the black market where prostitutes are beaten or raped or even killed by the pimps. they can also get checked for diseases which in turn makes it safer for the patrons. also i noticed in countries where prostitution is legal like brazil, the prostitutes look better. :-) the illegal prostitues in new york look like behemoths and pigs (yuck!). the more classy ones run over $300us. (muito carro). prostitution also provides an outlet for men who are married to prudes who don't get enough sex. it is also good for men who go to clubs because it relieves them the pressure of meeting their sexual quota for the night and makes men less desperate for sex when they go out to dance clubs. i admit to doing this routine in brazil. i go to prostitutes to relieve my sexual tension, then when i go to dance clubs to meet non-pro women, they sense that i am interested in being their friend instead of a potential sex score (like what happens here in america with the illegalization of prostitution.) i sense desperation in american clubs with american men because there is no outlet to meet the daily (weekly or monthly) quota of getting laid. the women in turn would think that these guys are desperate creeps.
in the scenario where prostitution is legal like in brazil, i no longer think,"must get laid", but instead i go to the club to just have a good time and meet new friends. i do end up in bed with some of these ladies because i become more social when i don't have to worry about not getting laid for the night. :-)

[Rubber Nursey]

You're most welcome honey I hope it all works out ok for you.

[zel66]

Good luck with the books Joe and RN. Look forward to reading them. And thanks again for all the advice the other day.

[Joe Zop]

Blush, well, thanks. Just goes to show what an amazingly distorting medium the internet can be, LOL! Maybe we can backchannel on the books, though since my trip aims to bring at least two of the ones I'm working on to completion, it'll be a while before those particular ones are out. Is that hotmail addy still valid?

[Rubber Nursey]

Stray collector?? LOL That describes me perfectly. My job, my circle of friends....AND my ex husband!! *grin*

And I would love to read your books sometime Joe...at the risk of sounding really corny, I deeply admire you. Not only are you articulate and compassionate and brilliant, but you are truly a gentleman.

[Joe Zop]

Hmm, I thought you seemed all too familiar -- are you sure you're 28 and in WA? Not trying to resurrect the trucker scenario again, but your life and approach sounds an awful lot like a sister I've got who's a year younger than I am. Took off at 17, went half-way across the country with some bad dudes (who'd just robbed several stores and then did the same to her a thousand miles from home) and the eventual translation from a stubborn risk-taking pain to an outspoken one after a long period of difficult life(only she did do the drugs as well.) Unaccountably poor self-image for someone who's brilliant and good-looking, though the self-image things seems to unaccountably run through my family. Funny part is that she actually is now a nurse... Tell me, are you also psychologically a "stray collector"? My sister seems to constantly have stray people around who she's helping and involved with. Wait, that's your job, isn't it

And sorry, but I don't see any indication of a "simple country girl" in your posts -- I think you must have left the simple far behind, as you're clearly too well-read and reasoning to qualify at this point.

And, hey, you can always do more than one book I've got several I'll be working on during my long fall retreat to Thailand.

[Rubber Nursey]

Hmmm ok, well firstly I left home at 15 (my own choice, no family problems or anything) and I am now 28. I was...without a doubt...the proverbial "rebel without a clue!" LOL I thought I was a big girl and I thought I was acting like a big girl, but unfortunately now that I look back on it, I was acting like an idiot. Before I became a stubborn, outspoken pain in the bum, I was a stubborn, risk-taking pain in the bum. I think I made every effort to try everything I was told not to (except drugs...funny that). Not a lot to say about it really...no good excuses except I was young and dumb. I think because I started out badly at such a young age...with men that is...I must have kind of just grown to expect it. And a lack of self respect is a dangerous thing.

And my parents?? Well, I am a simple country girl born of simple country folk...who moved hundreds of miles away from my parents at 15, supported myself and children for the better part of ten years, and now works in a sex worker agency. I figure they know.

They have never asked and I would never just come out and tell them...but if they asked me straight out I would. I really believe it would be no real shock to them. I have to say though...when my Mum reads things I have written in the local media or is told about the various conferences and conventions I have spoken at...she is proud as punch. She never felt the need to ask me WHY my entire life is now devoted to the decriminalisation of prostitution though!! They trust in my judgement and believe that I know what is right for me.

By the way...it's all happening! The Govt have promised draft legislation in 6 weeks...had a meeting today with the pollies...NOT looking good! But we are armed and ready to attack *grin*

Oh...and the book is something that will be happening real soon. Not about me, but a book all the same.

[Joe Zop]

So, RN, after reading things here and in the American women thread, I've got a question for you -- at what point in your existence did you cease having what one might call a "normal" life? Sure seems like you've managed not only more than your fair share or trauma but simply a great deal of living packed into a few years. Hope you're taking copious notes -- given your skill at communicating, there's a good book or ten waiting to come out sometime in the future...

And some clarification, please -- you noted in the "Women" thread that you've decided, thanks to listening to all the idiots here, myself included, that you'll need to tell future potential partners about your past. How are you going to make that work with the fact that you've not told your parents? (And, no, this is not some kind of prelude to broaching the issue of informing them, simply a logistical query.)

[Rubber Nursey]

LOL Joe...yeah well, I'm a backward kinda gal

And you're right. I'm very glad I had already had children...the whole experience was frightening enough without having to worry about future childbearing. Happily though, even though I do not want any more children, the "bits" that they removed are able to regenerate so there should be no problems if I ever changed my mind. And also...just 'coz I like saying it *grin*...I have passed each three monthly biopsy for the last 12 months, and have now been "downgraded" to six monthly tests. They said the first 12 months was the highest risk period...I am so glad to get through it!

By the way, little funny story of the day I got the surgery done...
My GP knew what my "other" job was, but the oncologist only new about my "real" job. After the surgery, he said "Take tomorrow off because you will be a bit sore in the tummy, but otherwise you are free to go back to work. The last thing you need after all this stress is a loss of income, right? Oh by the way...you can't have sex for eight weeks". LOL D'oh

[Joe Zop]

RN, as always, you're full of firsts -- not too many people would feel it necessary to apologize for not working as a prostitute.

Since you note that you had surgery, let me simply say I'm happy for you that you have your kids, as I know such surgery can be psychologically very tough at such a young age.