The Morality of Prostitution

[Bango Cheito]

Sometimes girls naturally don't lubricate much, if at all, but if she floods the room, you know you did something right :P Of course there are some girls who squirt with very little provocation but that's EXTREMELY rare.

That's a great story about the anal lube though, just when you think you've experienced it all....

[Dickhead]

I know one gal who said her ass lubricates when she is anally horny. I told her that was impossible because there are no Bartholins glands back there. She says well I don't know what those are but play with it for a while and check it out. Sure enough, it lubricated. I was like huh you learn something new every day. So she says, "Well?" and I say "Well what?" and she says, "Well, what are you going to do now?" Nothin' baby. That ain't my thang.

One problem can be that when you are screwing three or four women regularly plus a whole bunch of other strange here and there, sometimes you confuse what Mary likes with what Suzy likes and that really pisses 'em off. This is more true if Mary and Suzy know each other and even more true if Mary and Suzy have been in bed with you at the same time, and even MORE true if Mary and Suzy have gotten it on together.

But some women don't lubricate even when horny. I know one like that, too. One of her ovaries is dead even though she's only in her early 30s. We have to use lube, but she's definitely horny. She was on hormones to correct this but they made her "fat" (like she went from 98 pounds to 104) so she quit taken them. Stupid, but her mind is made up on the subject. I kinda like it for the eating her out part. It's a nice change and sometimes if I eat out a wet pussy I get little fissures at the corners of my mouth.

[Bango Cheito]

You know you're doing a good job in bed if the woman lubricates. If she floods the mattress you've done a GREAT job. It ain't exactly rocket science.

It's also a good clue in non-pro situations if she follows you around like a lost puppy afterwards. If she changes her phone number after having sex with you it's a good sign she's not down for a repeat :P

As far as I'm concerned sex workers are among the smartest most teacious and FEARLESS people I know, people who aren't afraid to step outside the boundaries. Those are the kind of people I want in my sphere. Normal people seem like a waste of oxygen to me.

As for it being a man's job to "school" a woman, that my friends is pure male chauvinism.

[Dickhead]

"Its [sic] man’s job to school a woman in 'sexpertise.'" I think you'll find that historically, in most cultures, the opposite has been the case. But, I'd love to hear your attempt at a logical explanation of why this assertion might be true.

[Dickhead]

Illogic, you are just so illogical. But then I'm such a dickhead. You say, "lol I think there are better ways to understand human nature." That is such a weak statement. Can you give an example? You have such a complete double standard about mongering it's actually fairly humorous. It's obvious you are extremely conflicted about mongering.

But, I agree with BC on most points. I won't say that mongering has made me a better person but getting laid a lot makes me a better person. Sexually frustrated people are crabby and prone to blow-ups. Here if a woman is very crabby she is referred to as a "malco" which is short for malcogida or poorly fucked. One time in grad school one of the female TAs was unusually b!tchy and another female TA said, "What's the matter with her today?" I said, "She needs a horse cock" and several people were a bit shocked but that's what it is.

Better judge of human nature from mongering, definitely. Now perhaps this has more to do with associating with lower socioeconomic strata in general than with mongering in particular, but I think there are elements of both. I can't speak to being a better lover from mongering, because I had the advantages of being seduced by an older, experienced woman and then being married to a sex freak who would try anything. But, in general I understand women 1000% better now after fucking five hundred of them (so I am up to 3% understanding).

One important point is that through mongering, I have gotten to know women from so many different cultures. That in and of itself provides a better understanding of human nature. Yes, you can get to know people from many cultures by traveling, but not in the same depth. Of course, in order to do this, you have to value your hookers as human beings and not just as semen receptacles, and some people on this board can't seem to do that.

If it weren't for mongering I would never have spent a week in the small town of Chachapoyas, Perú, in the Amazon district, living under local conditions. You could say that the same thing could have happened under regular dating circumstances, but in reality it would not have. If a woman from Chachapoyas would have come to Buenos Aires for some other reason, which she would not have, the chance of me ever getting to know her would be minuscule.

If it weren't for mongering I never would have spent six weeks in Medellín, living in an apartment like a local. I could go on and on. I tell people I am pursuing an imaginary self-directed PhD in Latin American Sociology. I probably won't bother to write the dissertation but the field work has been very interesting and broadening. While it hasn't directly made be a better person as far as I know, it's made me a more tolerant and more interesting and more humble person and I'd say those are all good things.

But perhaps once Illogic has mongered for 37 years (if he chooses to continue to monger), he will have a different take on things. As BC says, "practice makes perfect."

[Warbucks]

In short I'm a much more capable lover than I ever was before. You could be 100 years in a monogamous relationship but you'll never get that without sleeping with a variety of women.

So you fuck yourself not masturbation but I mean literally fuck yourself? Now I know that is impossible. So maybe someone told you were a good lover. Prostitutes? I find it hard to believe anything they say.

I think it's the same thing for women... the more variety they have and the more sex they have in general, the better they are at it. Stands to reason, practise makes perfect. .

Its man’s job to school a woman in “sexpertise.”I been in contact with a lovely Filipina who told me her last Filipino boyfriend said she didn’t know how to kiss. How this came out because she told she was a bad kisser. When I am done with her she probably won’t be saying these things.

But even beyond that, I think I have a much better understanding of human nature now than I did several years ago.

LOL. I think there are better ways to understand human nature.

[Warbucks]

http://quicksilverscreen.com/watch?video=40708

[Bango Cheito]

Illogic seems to have implied that I think mongering hasn't change me. I think it has made a POSITIVE change in me in fact. I'm much more knowledgeable about my own body and even MORE knowledgeable about women's bodies and the great variations in them. In short I'm a much more capable lover than I ever was before. You could be 100 years in a monogamous relationship but you'll never get that without sleeping with a variety of women.

I think it's the same thing for women... the more variety they have and the more sex they have in general, the better they are at it. Stands to reason, practise makes perfect.

But even beyond that, I think I have a much better understanding of human nature now than I did several years ago.

[Jelly Donut]

First I should note that here in Buenos Aires, if you were to call the police, an ambulance, and a hooker at the exact same time, the hooker would undoubtedly arrive first, and do a much better job. ....

Despite crude anti-doughnutism in the 5th paragraph - it's clearly an insightful post and deserves an A+

[Gfe Finder]

No, brothel sex in NV is ridiculously expensive because of Economics 101: supply and demand. It's only available in certain bum fuck counties where no one wants to live so the supply is extremely limited. And, since it's the only legal venue in the whole country, demand is wide-spread.

I don't think we're disagreeing here. RN was just naming another factor on the supply side of the equation that I hadn't thought of.

[Rubber Nursey]

Additionally RN lives in the most conservative part of Australia....

Yes, I do live in the most conservative state. It's also the state with the highest number of wh*res per capita and some of the highest paid wh*res in the country. Interesting, no? Conservatives = horny rich hypocrites.

I wasn't trying to explain the current high prices - only (my opinion on) why prices don't necessarily go DOWN after decriminalisation. Stigma also contributes to sex industry prices in other ways. Across the board in Australia, sex industry businesses pay around ten times more to advertise than any other business. Insurance companies charge at least seven times more to cover sex industry businesses (if they agree to cover them at all!) In WA, brothels and private workers pay obscene amounts in rent. Private workers often have to rent separate premises to work from, so they're paying rent on two houses. In some states, brothels and private workers have to pay licensing fees, two or three times higher than other business licenses. And most people really don't want to tick 'prostitute' on their tax form, so they can't take advantage of tax rebates for all those work expenses. Until people start treating sex businesses the same as other businesses, overheads alone will keep the prices high, even in a decriminalised environment.

[Ham Yai]

WOMEN

PROSTITUTION

The word has become sexist in itself because the Oxford dictionary differentiates between a Prostitute and a Male Prostitute. A nurse is a nurse, unless it’s a male nurse? So I will take the sexism out of prostitution and refer to it as a “person” who “engages in sexual activity for payment”, but is there not a reasonable argument that all woman want payment for sex. It is just what you define as payment?

“Sex is the price women pay for marriage.

Marriage is the price men pay for sex”

“Whereas a woman needs love to open up to sex, a man needs sex to open up to love.”

So what causes the demand for women prostitutes? One argument put forward by women prostitutes, is women themselves. Those who fail to understand or give their husbands what they want. I realize women who sell her bodies also need to justify her way of life too.

However it is a reasonable argument on the basis that most prostitutes’ customers are married men, who have access to sexual gratification with their wives. The kind of sex most married men want from a prostitute is oral sex. They like to have their penises sucked and often explain that the only reason they like it is that their wives refuse to do it. A blow job as it is known in the trade is fast easy and clean. No dirty linen, no washing up either and in most cases the girl doesn’t even need to get undressed. Fellatio is not the only “request”. Next comes cunnilingus, or going down on a woman, but prostitutes don’t like that so much. (I wonder why).Other “tricks” I will pass here but straight sex or intercourse can be included.

I don’t think I have completely explained why men visit prostitutes but I think it can be fairly certain to be the next stage of self masturbation. I have always understood that men masturbate to empty that full feeling apart from the obvious pleasure. This full feeling occurs regularly in men, whereas self masturbation by women is not that urgent, as their excitable sexual cycle tends only to occur during and within the menstrual cycle.

So men get bored with self masturbation and cannot find a willing partner when the “urge” arises. I would call it a biological urge need rather than more “fun”. As maturity proceeds, masturbation gradually recedes and copulation takes over.
“Men have only one thing on their minds—sex” contains only a germ of truth. Some men do and some do at certain times in their life. I started at 16 but some say 21. It is relevant because erections become a “problem” at different ages for different men, but “curing” a man’s virginity is where many prostitutes come in. I make no excuse at this stage by saying that loosing ones virginity to a prostitute should be avoided at all costs.

Men and boys who visit prostitutes are not realizing their feelings for love, and women who sell their body for sex either has no love for her client or is unsatisfying her need for love.

Sex in a loving relationship is exquisite. Don’t be shy as love can come in all shapes and sizes and does believe me.

Whereas the average man is capable of about one ejaculation per session without straining himself, a woman can and prostitutes do service a regiment in the same interval.

I have never been satisfied by a prostitute until I arrived in a country where selling her body for sex was a natural for a woman as eating 6 times a day, and then only certain women prostitutes, who don’t see themselves as *****s but subscribe to the saying,n no money no honey.

Western society has gone mad.

For many men sexual arousal is the key for helping them to connect with and realize their loving feelings, so what has happened?

Society itself has become the obstacle to problem free lovemaking.

“Prostitution is a violent act” says Mary Senior STUC

“ Women living in fear” -- Thousands of desperate women still walk the streets every night, living in fear of meeting the same fate as the five women murdered in Ipswich

“Women demand an end to prostitution” says Feminist Coalition Against Prostitution co founder Finn Mackay. “ As long as men are allowed to buy and sell women in prostitution, the industry will continue to grow.

A government –commissioned survey, also published on 4th Sept 08 found that the majority of men and women would support legislation making it illegal to pay for sex if it would help tackle sex trafficking”

Sweden’s prostitution law makes it illegal to buy sex, but not to sell it.

I could go on and I will if you ask but until prostitution is either made legal or an acceptance that women sell their bodies for money not love, of course men will react in an unnatural way that offends what is not socially accepted in one country but is not an issue in another.

Women’s groups in the West pressure their governments to “see prostitution for what it is”. Sane men continue to ask women what is prostitution.

It isn’t rocket science for women to discover that sex sells, and poor women, some who have experienced sexual abuse become “sellers of sex”

Many men believe, as I do that in a civilized society lust has a place.

Society is not solely based on the repression of instinct in general and lust in particular. People need the release of pleasure but if this Western society depends on the wholesale repression of instinct for its future, then the possibility of a sexual tolerant, humane and democratic society is slim indeed.

Two very simple steps would be to solve the problem in a democratic and humane way, as for drug addiction, is to legalize prostitution, and register prostitutes, but whether the worlds oldest profession can control themselves, is debatable.

When did prostitution begin? Harlots are mentioned 44 times in the Bible,*****s and *****mongers is mentioned eight times. Obviously love for money was well established by 2000BC. From its origins until relatively recently,prostitution has been a more or less respectable profession.

The trouble started with the ancient Hebrews who condemned *****s. Most were directed toward their own who took up the trade. Foreign prostitutes were relatively well tolerated among them. Where the New Testament begins, as the Old one left off, a religious campaign against prostitution, which took on the attributes of the Crusade and which continues with its original fervour even today in Western society.
So now you know who is to blame!

The ancient Chinese, Greeks,Armenians,Syrians and Cypriots, to name a few, considered prostitution a noble calling and included it in their religious ceremonies. Temples had official prostitutes and intercourse with them was considered an acceptable form of worship, for a small fee of course. ( early corruption or religious profiteering). Many of these ladies were volunteers in the sense that they only worked for a year or so, donating ALL the proceeds of their labours to the church.
Missionary work? No, not my joke, but this WAS considered the equivalent of modern missionary work. How times change! (And so do missionaries.)

When their time was up the part time prostitutes returned home to their husbands and families with greatly enhanced prestige. ( I would like to think and support it as a learning curve for girls today) ( says he, with tongue in cheek).

Among certain groups, sacred prostitution has a more practical twist. Armenians and Cypriots encouraged their daughters to earn their dowries by working as freelance prostitutes before marriage.

I have a Telegraph newspaper article here dated 10/10/07 “Cambridge University students are working as strippers, prostitutes and escorts,” according to the University newspaper. “Cash strapped students who found taking their clothes off a “quick and easy” way to make money”. Nothing changes then except that these students wanted GBP 50 an hour. (It doesn’t say if they either enjoyed doing it or found it an additional hands on, experience) my words.

Even through the Middle Ages prostitution was accepted as a way of life and the more elegant *****s moved freely in upper class society. ( The rich gets all the pleasures?) Among the lower classes, the prostitutes life was harder,but not necessarily unrespectable. (No change there either.).

In Modern times prostitution has remained socially acceptable in most places, but after the Soviets took control in Eastern Europe following WW2, prostitution was outlawed. France Italy ,Belgium and Japan followed.However most of Asia recognizes or tolerates prostitution as do the Arab world and Latin America, where with certain exceptions, allows unrestricted prostitution. Mexico has considered prostitutes legal for a long time.

Isn’t prostitution a terrible thing? A lot of people think so. But the facts don’t necessarily bear out their emotions.

Prostitution

Questions

a)spreads VD,
b) increases sex crimes,
c) corrupts young people and
d) is morally degrading are the main objections.
Answers
a)Not true as those working STD clinics will tell you.

b)Not true as where the trade is legal sex crimes are almost non existent

c) Not true, but corruption is a loaded word, but here in Thailand the moral fibre of the nation doesn’t seem to be adversely affected.

d) True, definitely because we make it that way by looking down on those who sell their sexual favours, by making them criminals, by shutting them off from society, we succeed in alienating them completely. Some of the bitterness and contempt rubs off on to the customers, who are more than willing BUT WRONG to pass it on to the lady on their arm.

Prostitution is a fact of life. Neither good nor bad . Indiscriminate sexual intercourse for money goes against my moral grain, but that’s the way I have been brought up. I have been indoctrinated, ( the Victorian attitudes do remain) as have the politicians of the Western society.

“If there wasn’t the demand, there wouldn’t be the supply” as the old saying goes.
Jennifer, as she was then, aged 11, told me in Junior school how much she wanted to kiss me and our holding hands blossomed until my mother found out from Jennifer’s mother and suggested I bring Jennifer home. The result was that I left home, and Jennifer, but that’s another story. Fortunately I was no longer a virgin at just 16 because an older girl who liked sex invited me into a hay shed. At 17 a holiday romance with Catrina ( I am sure she won’t mind now she’s 65 either ) gave me so much pleasure, so much puppy love and so much understanding of how girls work, that my need for prostitutes has been limited to the hard times in my life.

So what causes the “demand”

That is the story for part two..

In the meantime lets here from you and your experiences. Write to me in confidence that I promise not to reveal your name (unless you say otherwise) I have a professional reputation to maintain. I will tell you about that too in another time.

Continued Part 2

So what causes the “demand?”

In part one I gave you the demand that men like fellatio and their wives refused to do it.

But that is only part of the story as you are aware.

If casual sex were more available to men then there would not be a need for prostitutes, but women just aren’t like men.

Oh really? Is this the big “equality” lie then? The sixties generation thought everything should be free, including free love and those of us who will now have retired will remember them as the best years of their lives.

Women were born into a world which encouraged young women to explore their sexuality. It was presented as the feminist act. How these feminists have changed their tune now.

Cosmopolitan future editor Helen Gurley asked “Can a woman have sex like a man? Yes, she said, because “like a man, a woman is a sexual creature”.

However far from bringing the lasting relationship to the women it made marriage a more distant prospect. Many became dissatisfied daughters of the sexual revolution. Women now realize that casual sex is a con and are choosing to remain chaste.

Equally damaging is a legacy of the Victorian era a century ago. Back then doctors and psychologists agreed that women had no sexual feelings, and therefore men had no responsibility to provide what “everyone knew” women could not appreciate.
During Victorian times, the only women who acknowledged their sexuality were prostitutes. Since “ladies” were considered incapable of sexual arousal, whereas men were “ruled by animal lust”, the idea that making love involved intimate sharing between two equally arousal lovers made little sense.

Men “took” their wives or hired ladies of the evening, and all women –both wives and prostitutes- “submitted” to men. Wives experienced sexual submission as their religious duty; professional women saw it as a business commitment.

Domination and submission were built into sexual relationships and sex meant asserting power over women, not making love with them.

Today we understand that men and women are equally capable of appreciating sexual experiences and that lovemaking involves give and take.

Old notions still have a considerable hold in lovemaking. Note James Bond films, TV programming and popular music.

Many men still subscribe to the “feel them, fuck them and fuck them again and forget them” (FFFF) approach.

My wife and I subscribe to all forms of love play which includes domination and submission by both of us. We talk about everything we do. In the privacy of our home we are completely relaxed about all the situations I have referred to.
So there you have it all nicely wrapped up.

Women are responsible for the demand for Prostitution and the “lasting relationship” that marriage brings.

That, my friend in a nutshell, is the madness of this matriarchal Western society.
Women are now against Prostitution and are the cause of destroying the”lasting relationship”, they alone seek, that is….. marriage.

(Far more women file for divorce than men. I don’t know the exact figures but someone can remind me about the subject?)

There is nothing wrong with a marriage as long as it is a contract with a pre nuptial agreement and men recognize that 1 in 3 will end in divorce and recriminations brought mainly by the women.

Back to the subject that is Prostitution.

We have talked more about the “demand” now we look at the “supply”.

How does a girl get started?

Most girls become prostitutes because they like it!

Don’t look so surprised!

Those B films showing white slavery and helpless virgins were big at the Saturday matinees, but the real life story is different.

It starts with run of the mill promiscuity, maybe a divorce or two, then a job in a night club, a waitress or a barmaid, freelance sex with customers on a small scale. The girl puts two and two together and finds it’s an easy way to make money. Poverty is a factor, but many a high class prostitute does it because she gets wined and dined without the washing up etc...

I said most girls become prostitutes because they like it but in prostitution nobody is really happy.

It’s a hard life.

Men want their tricks too.

Two girls, anal sex and all the sadism and masochistic things people do for kicks.
Of course most prostitutes don’t pay tax but sometimes they don’t get paid.
What happens to these women when their looks go and it is too late to “pull out?”
There are health risks for the women’s sex organs.

However on the flip side some prostitutes love to see men beg for it.

All prostitutes have at least one thing in common-they hate men.

The main reason I have not married any of the Thai girls, I spent time with.

How does one tell the difference here?

The full answer lies somewhere within an underlying emotional problem that drove them into the “game.”, but basically prostitution (and lesbianism) is an ironic form of revenge against all men.

“They think they are screwing me” said a prostitute but that is all wrong. “I am the one screwing them” “I put on a great show but I never feel a thing, not even from those “great lovers”.

So prostitutes don’t enjoy sex? Not with customers but they do with their boyfriends who sometimes become their pimps.

In every large city there are male prostitutes, but as they won’t perform intercourse with women I will pass on them, but remind you that women will perform on other women.

As their looks fade they take jobs in the porno industry or finish their career by coming full circle, working as a “mamasan” or working as barmaids and waitresses, which is probably the best way out for them too.

I hope you have enjoyed these words on Prostitution and will want to add your own comment. No names will be divulged.

References have been taken from so many places and added to my own work that they are too numerous to list but I apologise now if I have offended anyone else’s work.

Part of my work on www.rightsandwrongs.co.uk

[Dickhead]

No, brothel sex in NV is ridiculously expensive because of Economics 101: supply and demand. It's only available in certain bum fuck counties where no one wants to live so the supply is extremely limited. And, since it's the only legal venue in the whole country, demand is wide-spread.

Additionally RN lives in the most conservative part of Australia and I really didn't think P4P was "ridiculously expensive" in for example, Melbourne, where there are many Asians who will clean your whole system for 70-80 Ozzie dollars. Now when I was there the exchange rate was 2 Oz to 1 US and sadly that is no longer true.

[Gfe Finder]

FYI: As someone who lives in a country where sex work is mostly lawful (and/or openly tolerated), I can assure you prices don't necessarily go down. In fact, P4P is ridiculously expensive here. In my opinion, it's not sex itself - the value society places on it, the availability of it, etc - that influences sex industry prices. It's the stigma involved. Nobody with half a brain is going to subject themselves to the lifetime of discrimination and punishment that comes with being a wh*re or ex-wh*re, without adequate compensation.

Even if sex work itself became stigma and criminal penalty-free (which I don't see EVER happening), former sex workers are still seen as 'damaged goods', thanks to society's sexual double standards. Hookers have sex with lots of people and that impacts on their ability to secure normal, loving relationships after leaving the sex industry. Unless society's double standards around sex also disappear, sex workers will ALWAYS want adequate compensation for the financial/emotional damage it will do to their future security.

Interesting point. I always wondered why prostitution in Nevada (and the rest of the USA to a lesser extent) was so expensive in particular compared to Western Europe. Now, I think I may have my answer. Thanks, RN!

[Yellow Fever #2]

And for the record, people with disabilities in Australia can currently claim sex industry services as part of workers compensation packages, etc from their health insurance provider and even, in some cases, from the national health system. Ok, so that's not exactly 'emergency services'. But it's a start.

Several years ago I met a monger in Shenzhen China who was from Denmark and worked in the social services in that country.

He told me that if a person is on social assistance in Denmark, that they get an allowance to visit escorts.

Although I will never be on social assistance in Denmark, can anyone in this forum verify this claim? Just out of interest.