The Morality of Prostitution

[Rubber Nursey]

... but a woman who chooses this career should be able to do this freely. This would drive down prices and drive up service levels.
I think we should encourage prostitution to become an essential service, on the same level as police, fire, ambulance.

FYI: As someone who lives in a country where sex work is mostly lawful (and/or openly tolerated), I can assure you prices don't necessarily go down. In fact, P4P is ridiculously expensive here. In my opinion, it's not sex itself - the value society places on it, the availability of it, etc - that influences sex industry prices. It's the stigma involved. Nobody with half a brain is going to subject themselves to the lifetime of discrimination and punishment that comes with being a wh*re or ex-wh*re, without adequate compensation.

Even if sex work itself became stigma and criminal penalty-free (which I don't see EVER happening), former sex workers are still seen as 'damaged goods', thanks to society's sexual double standards. Hookers have sex with lots of people and that impacts on their ability to secure normal, loving relationships after leaving the sex industry. Unless society's double standards around sex also disappear, sex workers will ALWAYS want adequate compensation for the financial/emotional damage it will do to their future security.

And for the record, people with disabilities in Australia can currently claim sex industry services as part of workers compensation packages, etc from their health insurance provider and even, in some cases, from the national health system. Ok, so that's not exactly 'emergency services'. But it's a start.

[Rubber Nursey]

re: The quality of service from newbies or part-timers, compared to that of 'hardened hookers'.

I'll let you guys in on a (rather open) secret...hookers who have been around for a while understand the benefits of saying that we're new to the industry, or studying part-time, or just doing this for some quick cash and then getting out fast. WE KNOW that's what you want to hear. We know it makes you feel special and safer (disease-wise) and more experienced in the ways of the world than we are. We also know it's more likely to make you come back for another round, because we're available for a 'limited time only'. (And if I'm still seeing you in five years, I can tell you it's because "beautiful/special clients like yourself made me feel like staying").

New girls, on the other hand, often feel scared and lost and completely out of their depth. They're paranoid that clients are gonna rip them off or abuse them or take advantage of them. They often DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW that they're new or inexperienced.

If a client comes in and asks "How long have you been doing this", a long-time worker will recognise the significance of the question and start with the "Not very long. I recently got divorced and need to support my kids and I want to put myself through university, but I couldn't balance kids and study with a normal job, so I thought I'd give this a go for a short while..." spiel. Newbies will fall over themselves to say they've been doing it for ages and they love sex and they think maybe they've found their calling and they might do this for the rest of their lives because sex for money is just sooo awesome...

The sex (and often, the emotional/physical intimacy) in sex work is raw and honest and real. The rest is carefully constructed fantasy. Don't ever forget that.

[Rubber Nursey]

Interesting that everyone agrees about the inherent 'morality' and honesty of the sex trade...yet most still think hookers themselves are inherently immoral and untrustworthy (in the context of relationships). hmmm

re: the semi-pro discussion
To me, saying you're 'semi-pro' is like saying you're a little bit pregnant. The hours you work and the type of clients you see, make no difference whatsoever. An accountant might work full-time, part-time or once a year at tax time...but they're still an accountant. A high-class fashion house may cater to an exclusive thin, rich Hollywood clientele, but they're still a clothing retailer, just like Target and Kmart.

That said, I believe 'wh*re' is a state of mind. If it makes her feel better to say she's just earning a bit of extra cash, "but I'm not a prostitute", that's fine by me. I don't blame her for wanting to distance herself from the shame and stigma that's always heaped on us. Plus, if she has a day-job that she identifies with and is proud of, it makes sense that she'd consider that as her occupation and sex work as just a bit of fun on the side - if I was a pro-bono lawyer working parttime at Maccas to supplement my income, I'd introduce myself to people as a lawyer, not a kitchen hand. But just because she doesn't identify with the sex worker community, doesn't mean she isn't a sex worker. She sucks cock for cash, just like the rest of us.

[Dickhead]

first i should note that here in buenos aires, if you were to call the police, an ambulance, and a hooker at the exact same time, the hooker would undoubtedly arrive first, and do a much better job. in fact, forget about 911 as a phone number but consider it more as the number of hookers available within a five block radius of my apartment. that's a low number so i am moving tomorrow.

as an impressionable youth i began to fuck my older married neighbor. this would now be [CodeWord123] on her part, but way back then it was all my fault. we ran off together and had eight weeks of drug fueled hot sex before she abandoned me in a foreign country. while this was a challenging experience to say the least, i learned all about pussy and became a man at an early age.

but then i had a monkey on my back. having experienced pussy, it became a need rather than a mere want as it was for most of the masturbating maniacs in my age group. fortunately there were puerto rican hookers available at affordable prices or i might have become a serial killer. or maybe even a cereal killer because a lot of times i was so broke i might have killed for cheerios. the tender ministrations of these latin ladies may have saved my life, or the lives of the innocent victims i might have randomly strafed under a different set of circumstances.

subsequently i bought into the conventional bullshit of marriage and monogamy and so forth and became marooned in that for a number of years. fortunately my wife was a sex freak so that really helped, but the truth is that women are way too neurotic to actually live with. hence we divorced and i dedicated myself to work, career, ambition, and similar futility. pussy was rare but i had been brainwashed into thinking that was relatively unimportant.

upon becoming cynical about capitalism and seeing my ambition begin to wane, i began to monger extensively in foreign countries and i discovered that, in fact, renting is superior to owning. that applies to any depreciating asset. pussy is a depreciating asset because women age more quickly than men, and because the more times you fuck a women the less exciting it becomes. the fourth doughnut is not as pleasurable as the third doughnut. this is known as the "doctrine of declining marginal utility."

so at some point i had a chat with myself and i knew i had to either continue with the dating scene in the yew ess or immerse myself in latina hookers regardless of the consequences. before i did this i had to think about "the morality of prostitution."

was it moral of me to stay in the yew ess and say whatever bullshit in a desperate quest to get occasional pussy? was it moral of the yew ess government to limit my options to the degree that it did? and, more importantly, was it moral for me to trade my yew ess dollars for latina pussy? these hookers are normally seeking to support a child although the one i banged today

http://www.gozanos.com.ar/escort/roc%c3%ado/

has no kids and so would be representative of rubbie's theory that this career can be freely chosen. also her pussy tastes really good but that is beside the point. or not.

i conclude that it is moral of me to screw these latinas for a modest amount of money because if i don't, someone else will, and i treat them very well and will not get them pregnant, which is the root cause of most of their problems in the first place.

furthermore if www.gozanos.com.ar had franchises world-wide, the world would be a better, safer, and more moral place. oh my god this is a very good wh@rehouse.

hence i conclude the most moral choice is to try to fuck myself to death as quickly as possible but that is proving to be harder than i thought it would be.

[Jelly Donut]

the Nacirema dream..

Thanks for this reference. I found Body Ritual among the Nacirema because of it. Enjoyed it very much and recommend it.

[John Dough]

Ever Google your handle?

http://www.walnet.org/csis/groups/swav/johndoe_50.html

$JOHN DOUGH
IT'S A BUSINE$$
DOING PLEASURE

MARK YOUR MONEY! -- SWAV's self-inking $JOHN DOUGH money stamp lets you tell people, banks and the government that the sex trade is an important part of our economy.

[Yellow Fever #2]

Inherently moral because you don't have to lie your way into anyone's pants. Inherently moral because when done correctly there are no false expectations. Inherently moral because it does not violate any of the Ten Commandments. I am an atheist but the Ten Big Ones are OK by me.

Excellent job and commentary.

I have to agree with your inherently moral proposition. Prostitution was in the bible and does not at least by Your authority violate the 10 commandments. I can live with that.

Prostitution should not be a crime, it should not be decriminalized, it should be accepted as a part of life and a lifestyle choice (when it is one). I do not support pimps or touts and I abhor the exploitation of children but a woman who chooses this career should be able to do this freely. This would drive down prices and drive up service levels.

I think we should encourage prostitution to become an essential service, on the same level as police, fire, ambulance. You should be able to call 911 and order a prostitute as easily as reporting a crime.

[Chocha Monger]

Dickhead,
It was Governor Mark Sanford who flew down to Argentina to peddle his conservative cock. That is an excellent piece you wrote. It's true pussy can ruin a man, sometimes even kill him.

[Dickhead]

Inherently moral because you don't have to lie your way into anyone's pants. Inherently moral because when done correctly there are no false expectations. Inherently moral because it does not violate any of the Ten Commandments. I am an atheist but the Ten Big Ones are OK by me.

Look at all the people whose lives have recently been ruined by pussy: Elliot Spitzer, Steve McNair, Senator Ensign, Governor I Forget His Name, and the list goes on and on.

Only Spitzer got ruined by commercial pussy. McNair by all accounts was a good man. He needed some strange and it cost him his life. This is not correct. He bought this woman an Escalade (although apparently he only made the down payment? Not that good of a gift especially since modern GM products are terrible); how many hookers could he have bought/rented instead with the same amount of cash? And he'd be alive today.

Spitzer was a good man too, although consumed by ambition. If someone can explain to me how this mongering that he did affected his ability to do his job, I am all ears.

Governor I Forget His Name, now he is guilty of dereliction of duty and lying to the people who elected him. He would be just as guilty of dereliction of duty if he had flown down here and mongered, but he wouldn't have gotten caught. He probably wanted to get caught and was consumed with guilt. Again mongering would have been the more moral choice. Much less impact on his family and 98% of the hookers down here don't speak English (the other 2% I avoid assiduously) and so would not be giving interviews.

Senator Ensign was not involved with hookers. Yeah right. His family gave her what was it? $100k? = hooker and a way overpriced one at that. The guy grew up in Las Vegas for goodness' sakes. Are there hookers in Las Vegas? Is a frog's ass water-tight? I do believe there are since I have fucked several in that obnoxious shit hole. Could he have gotten a few for $100k? I believe so. Would he still have gotten blackmailed? Maybe so but the payoff would probably have been cheaper.

Then there is this gay theater professor from the University of Northern Colorado who put a hidden camera in his bathroom to view people pissing, which he would then watch on closed-circuit TV. This is a strange fetish to me but whatever you need. Wouldn't he have been better off hiring a qualified professional to satisfy this fetish? Wouldn't that be more moral than taping unsuspecting people?

I rest my case.

[Gentleman Travel]

I agree Dickhead, when it comes to hooking a woman can either be a hooker or not be a hooker. Hooking isn’t like sports there isn’t any such thing as amateur, semi-pro or pro. It’s not like if the hookers have to go through qualifying series to be certified into a given class. A woman becomes a bona fide hooker the instant she accepts cash for ass.

Well, I have to disagree there.
Maybe it varies by culture, but in my experience I see a difference between a dedicated pro, a semi-pro with a day job or going to school, and a girl a girl who is just experimenting around the edges, or who takes a trick or two to meet a specific financial need. Maybe there is not a big difference between pros and semis, except the latter would rather she didn't have to do this - maybe she is hoping she will meet someone who will "take her away from all this" or at least sponsor her, so she doesn't have to sell her ass to all cummers. Someone she can pretend is her boyfriend (who also happens to pay for her apartment and clothes). I have met semi-pros like that.

Then there are "dates" whom you do not pay in cash, but in presents or treats (like nice dinners or trips). These range through a large area of grey from substantial gifts (like trips or clothes) down to normal girlfriend/wife arrangements, where the man is still providing lifestyle enhancements. I have seen some guys here say "all women are wh*res" because of this. I have to disagree strongly with that concept.

Sure, sometimes there might be no difference in how the girls feel, behave and provide service - but sometimes there are. The "amatuers" I reported earlier in this thread both needed to meet me first and get comfortable before taking the plunge into P4P. I presume they would not fuck just anybody, although that could change with time. So they are being selective both in who they meet and what services they provide. Pros usually are not selective, except for safety considerations.

It may have to do with culture. Certainly in Eastern Europe there is not the same kind of shame associated with fucking for rewards and there are a lot of non-pro girls there, who fuck for fun, profit or lifestyle. And they don't see themselves as wh*res, which is really the essential point - how does the girl see herself? Because that is going to dictate how you have to interact with her. If she wants cash on the night-table she is some version of pro. If there is some delicate dance before buying you way into her bed, then it is some variation of non-pro. Personally I like the delicate dances better.

If I were looking for an Eastern European woman for a wife, I wouldn't want one that had worked as a pro. But I would be crazy to think that I could find one who had never fucked another guy just because he bought her a nice dinner, or she hoped he would do something for her in the future. That's not prostitution, that's just life.

[Chocha Monger]

I guess I am insecurse because I would never accept a woman who has slept with a lot of men. I just wouldn't want a relationship with a woman who gives out the pussy like government cheese. A woman should show some restraint that's just me.

Comedian Chris Rock said it best. "It's hard for a man to get pussy. But its easy for a women to get dick."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMiyg87UhL4

I understand what you're saying but how in the world would you know how many miles of cock she has had run through her? Studies show that most women lie about how many miles of cock they've had. They usually under report the mileage. So if the woman is not a virgin with an intact hymen you just have to accept her word for it.

[Warbucks]

Still some guys attach importance to whether they are number 100, 500, 1000 or 200,000. Some guys do the same thing with their girlfriends. They want to know how many guys she fucked before them. If they fucked better or longer? Were their dicks bigger? It’s really just insecurity.

I guess I am insecurse because I would never accept a woman who has slept with a lot of men. I just wouldn't want a relationship with a woman who gives out the pussy like government cheese. A woman should show some restraint that's just me.

Comedian Chris Rock said it best. "It's hard for a man to get pussy. But its easy for a women to get dick."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMiyg87UhL4

I can say definitely that my capacity to love has not disappeared AT ALL since years of mongering. As a matter of fact here in Colombia, there are quite a few women, and one especially, that brought back all the stupid feelings I had when I was in high school. Not sure if that's such a good thing either :P

Before I started mongering all I wanted was a woman to call my own a wife (had one of those already) a house in the suburbs and kids. The American dream. Now all I want is the Nacirema dream. Nothing but endless supplies of young, fresh nubile women to fuck. I have become insatiable sex wise and women wise.

I was always insatiable sex wise but before I didn't want to change women like socks. I was content with one woman. This is no longer the case.

All these guys talking about they are the same since they became a monger....

I just love the denial that is so prevalent on this forum.

[Dickhead]

I get exactly what you are saying but after 37 years of mongering, I figure if they won't do act X they will do act Y and that will be okay. Really, I have two advantages in mongering. #1 is I don't seek a certain physical type. Tall, short, dark, light, a bit skinny or a bit chubby; it's all good to me. Now, I don't take this to extremes: no fatties, no anorexics, anything over 6'4" I have to go up on and anything under 4'2" where I can set my beer on their head, I don't go there.

#2 I don't seek a certain act. I understand some guys need a certain thing to get what they need, sexually, and I agree those guys may need to negotiate this in advance. I am glad I do not have these constraints.

It's possible that I am a complete ****. What gets me off is when she gets off and whatever occurs in the process I normally like.
The great thing about Latina America is that most prostitutes are pretty horny and thus don't set a lot of limits so you can pretty much do whatever you want. And what I want is pretty normal so I have no real problems.

[Bango Cheito]

I can say definitely that my capacity to love has not disappeared AT ALL since years of mongering. As a matter of fact here in Colombia, there are quite a few women, and one especially, that brought back all the stupid feelings I had when I was in high school. Not sure if that's such a good thing either :P

As a matter of fact, one of the things I like about mongering is it puts me in good perspective, it stops me from putting women on a pedestal and being all unrealistic about them. The scary thing is that in that particular regard, it seems to have stopped working :O

As far as neogtiating beforehand goes, I've been actually called out as the guy who wants to plan ev everything. Obviously with non-pros that's usually not even possible nor desirable, but when paying, I like to do things that way. I don't want to be disappointed after having plunked down cash. And when I go in paying for it I usually have a certain act or acts I want to do, it's like if I go to the restaurant one day I know I want the big salad, the other day I might want a nice piece of chicken or something :P It doesn't ruin it for me at all.

[Dickhead]

Right on CM. However, I do not subscribe to "once a hooker, always a hooker." I did get into a little trouble with one of my favoritas last week; she is no longer on the open market and is living with a guy and has another BF on the side like any normal Latina, but she still takes money from me. She said something about "back when I used to be a prostitute" and since I like to live dangerously, I said, "You are still a prostitute." "No, I am not!" "Okay, I won't give you any money then." "um er um uh." Later I said, "You have pussy and need money and I need pussy and have money so don't worry about it."

I confess I do give her birthday gifts, though. Never give a woman a practical gift. Three years ago she was always complaining how hot her house was so I gave her a big electric floor fan and had it delivered to her house. Wrong. "I want a pair of shoes." "How many pairs of shoes do you have?" "[some number equivalent to the entire number of pairs of shoes I've bought in my entire life]" "Doesn't the fan make you more comfortable?" "Oh yes."

So two years ago she got shoes, and yes, I had to go shopping for them with her. "How do these look?" "Fabulous." "You are just saying that because you are tired of shopping." "Honestly they do look great on you and honestly yes, I am tired of shopping."

They do look really good on her, especially with stockings and a garter belt and nothing else.