American Women

[Chocha Monger]

Did you guys know that Paypal, 2Checkout and several other online credit card processing services have stopped doing business with adult content/product vendors? Apparently, money is now being used to enforce morality in America. The day that we move to a cashless society would be the end of freedom; just think about it, if the government or "moral" majority didn't want you to buy condoms or risque items they could pressure the credit card processors to decline purchases of such items.

Eventually, they could cut off payment for travel to certain sex destinations like Thailand unless you could prove the need to go there on business. Sounds crazy? Try paying for adult oriented material with Paypal and you'll see that it's not so far-fetched.

[PanamaJack]

Anyboby ever watch BRIDEZILLA, my god I hope thats not a real depiction of how aw behave.......every young guy should be made to watch that show, increadable stuff, thats some scary sh!t.

[Sinanju Master]

Helping race relations? Helping out the economic situation of a pleasant young man that an older woman fancies? What I find INSULTING is that these broads BELIEVE their own bullshit and get an industrial strength ATTITUDE if you expose it for what it is: engaging in the same behavior for which they bash men about. I guess my BIGGEST issue with AW's (or maybe I should say WESTERNIZED women) is HYPOCRISY.

[Ezinho]

For all the talk of romance, the language of sex tourism is pretty basic. The women are called milk bottles by the men - partly because of their ultra-white skin, partly because they are seen as vessels waiting to be filled.

Did anyone else here, after reading this, feel physically ill? I don't know about you guys, but I think I'm going to be hunched over my toilet for the next few hours dry heaving! Thanks a lot, Astor, lol.

[Capt Ajax]

Women who travel for sex: Sun, sea and gigolos

The men are young, gorgeous and up for it. No wonder Western women see a Third World holiday as the gateway to casual sex - sometimes in exchange for cash. But as a new film highlights female sex tourism, Liz Hoggard asks who really pays the price

Published: 09 July 2006
An attractive woman sips a cocktail under a bamboo shade. The sand is dazzlingly white, the sea aquamarine. A handsome young man approaches her and showers her with compliments: she is the most beautiful woman he has ever seen, he says. For the first time in years, she truly believes she is desirable.

But this holiday romance is not all it seems. The woman is white, in her late 50s; the man, black, 18 - and paid for his attentions. The scene - from the controversial new French film, Heading South, which opened this weekend, starring Charlotte Rampling, makes us confront uncomfortable truths about sexuality in a globalised world, and the legacy of colonialism.

In the film, an intelligent, provocative take on sex tourism in the late-1970s, Rampling plays Ellen, an American professor, who spends every summer at a private resort in Haiti, where beautiful, muscled black boys are available to the female clientele, mostly affluent single women in their forties, who despair of finding mates through more conventional means. "More than sex, they are seeking a tenderness that the world is refusing them," the film's director, Laurence Cantet, explains.

Fast-forward 30 years, and the reality of sex tourism is anything but tender. Today beach resorts in developing countries such as Kuta in Bali, Negril in Jamaica and Boca Chica and Sosua in the Dominican Republic have become Third World pick-up spots for women tourists. Tour companies even market package deals as sex holidays for single and unaccompanied women. Forget Shirley Valentine, these women - who range from grandmothers to teens - don't want a long-term relationship. And there's plenty of live flesh on sale.

Take Jamaica, where 17 per cent of the population lives below the poverty line. Hustling on the beach is the only way that some young men can feed themselves and their families. No wonder they choose older women who pay better than younger ones. InNegril, the men can earn $100 (£60) for sex with a female tourist, £90 for oral sex, which Jamaican men usually regard as taboo. Many others are hired as a guide to the island and throw in sexual services, often just for as meal or a place to sleep.

The definition of a sex tourist is an adult who travels in order to have legal consensual sexual relations with another adult, often for the exchange of money or presents. We still assume that a sex tourist will be male - indeed many regard the relationship between beach boy and female tourist as harmless fun. The woman gets guilt-free sex while keeping a firm hold on the purse strings. Where's the harm?

Jane, 67, a divorcee, has spent the past 10 years holidaying in West Africa. She loves the climate and the people - and she especially loves the men. "They are so wonderfully flattering. They make you feel like a real women. I don't mind paying for their drinks and meals if they stay the night." Divorced, with two grown-up sons, she explains, "White men my own age are so set in their ways; they just want another wife."

For others, this is exploitation pure and simple. Even where no money is exchanged, this sort of behaviour destabilises local communities and families. Ignorance and lack of concern about the abject poverty and lack of choice that characterises the men's lives leads the women to romanticise their actions. It is true that women sex tourists are still outnumbered by the legions of men who travel to Thailand and the Philippines for sex with prostitutes. Charities such as Amnesty and Unicef have no official policy on female sex tourism, preferring to focus on protecting trafficked women and children. Chris Beddoe, director of Ecpat UK, the children's rights organisation that campaigns against child sex tourism, believes: "If both adult partners are open and honest about what they're getting out of it, that's one thing. But it's another thing to continue the fantasy when there's a denial of the power that money brings to that relationship that creates a culture of dependency and exploitation.'

Nirpal Dhaliwal, author of the recent novel, Tourism (which satirises older white women turned on by young brown flesh), takes a tougher view. "Women enjoy casual sex and prostitution, too, but with far more hypocrisy. They help themselves to men in the developing world, kidding themselves that it's a 'holiday romance' that has nothing to do with the money they spend. Go to any Jamaican beach and you'll find handsome 'rent-a-dreads', who get by servicing Western women - lots from Britain. I've seen similar things in Goa."

Next month a new play, Sugar Mummies, about the pleasures and perils of sex tourism opens at London's Royal Court Theatre. Set in the Jamaican beach resort of Negril, it centres on a group of British and American women, seeking sun sea, sand ... and uninhibited sex with a handsome stranger. Sexually frank and often very funny, the play doesn't pull its punches. The playwright, Tanika Gupta, travelled to Jamaica to research the subject first-hand, and says she was shocked to find how female tourists objectify the black male body. "A lot of women talk about how 'big' black men are and how they can go all night. It becomes such a myth that even the men now use it. There is this terrible mutual delusion going on. And you do find yourself thinking, 'We're not a million miles from slavery.'" The older female tourists even confided to Gupta that although Jamaica was lovely and laid-back, the Dominican Republic and Cuba were "dirt cheap". "You can go as young as you want in Cuba," one woman boasted.

For all the talk of romance, the language of sex tourism is pretty basic. In Jamaica the men are called "beach boys" or "Rastatutes". The women are called milk bottles by the men - partly because of their ultra-white skin, partly because they are seen as vessels waiting to be filled.

Another myth the play explodes is that sex tourism is only perpetrated by white women. In Jamaica, Gupta met many black American women hiring beach boys. "They might be going back to their roots, or feeling more powerful because they had money, but they were still buying the same services."

In Bali, South-east Asia, Beddoes encountered wealthy Japanese women paying local boys for sex. The boys themselves claimed they found it less degrading because they saw the Japanese women as smaller and more childlike.

Gupta was inspired to write Sugar Mummies after reading the research by UK sociologists, Jacqueline Sanchez Taylor and Julia O'Connell into female sex tourism in the Caribbean. They decided to carry out their own research when they found that the usual analysis of sex tourism does not consider women as buyers of sexual services, because prostitute-users is seen as, by definition, male.

They interviewed 240 women holidaying in Negril, and two similar resorts in the Dominican Republic. Almost a third said they had engaged in sexual relationships with local men. Though 60 per cent admitted to certain "economic elements" to their liaisons, they did not perceive their sexual encounters as a prostitute-client transaction. Instead they insisted they were helping the men, and the local economy, by giving them money and gifts. When asked to describe "boyfriends", most emphasised how for them black Jamaican men possessed bodies of great sexual value. One 42 year-old English woman who travelled at least three times a year to Boca Chica in the Dominican Republic said: "I'm not naïve. I've been around the block. I come for sex - of course the sun, but mostly the sex. I'm not coming to live and set up house with a guy. I just want some fun and good sex."

"Female sex tourism is much more informal," says Sanchez Taylor, a lecturer in sociology at Leeds University. "It takes place in bars. There's no way for women to go into a brothel and say, 'I want a blow job.'

"Women who feel rejected by men in the West for being fatter and older -you know, 35, but they look 40 - find that in Jamaica all this is reversed," says Sanchez Taylor.

"There's a poetic lyricism to the gigolo's chat-up lines," agrees Gupta. "You very quickly understand why the women are buying this. On the first day, this baby aged 18 came to chat me up. At first I thought, this will be good for my play. But then he got a bit fast, so I suggested he move on to some younger women, And he said, 'Me no want the kitten, me want the cat.'"

The problem comes, she says, when the women start believing the men they have hooked up with are in love with them. "They confuse what is actually a financial transaction with real love. If you have low self-esteem, if you've not had much luck, if you're older ... you are likely to be more susceptible," says Gupta.

Some women even marry their boyfriends and take them home to the UK, although few relationships survive the cultural difference. Jamica's most famous holiday romance has recently come crashing down. Female tourism boomed after Terry McMillan's hit novel, How Stella Got Her Groove Back was made into a Hollywood film. The novel, in which Stella, a divorced black woman in her forties, takes a holiday to Jamaica, where she meets and falls in love with Winston, a local man half her age - was a fictionalised account of McMillan's own marriage to Jeremy Plummer, 23 years her junior. This year, McMillan, 53, filed for divorce, claiming that the marriage was based on a "fraud'' because Plummer lied about his sexual orientation and married her only to gain US citizenship. He denies it.

It is a nasty twist that the countries where this sort of tourism is most rife are ex-slave colonies. Many are still dealing with the fallout of colonialism. All the hotels, restaurants, cars and glass-bottomed boats in Negril are owned by Americans. The urban economy doesn't even belong to the local people.

Yet the women who sleep with the beach boys insist they are helping race relations. They flatter themselves they have gone native. "In my play there's a scene where a white woman is taking about how she loves R&B and reggae and what she calls hip and hop," says Gupta.

It is the female tourist who books the flights and determines the length of time she will spend with their boyfriend, as well as making day-to-day decisions when they are together, such as when and where they eat. One 21-year-old migrant from Haiti who had been working in Sosua, told Sanchez Taylor that he even had to "snog" his tourist client despite a bad toothache and a swollen face. If he did not, he would not be able to afford the antibiotics to cure it.

In Sugar Mummies, Gupta deliberately allows herself one relationship that might just work. "I'm not saying anything about mixed race relationships, I'm talking about these specific kinds of sex-tourist relationships where women go out there specifically to have sex. It will probably backfire and a whole load more women will go off to Jamaica."

'Sugar Mummies' opens at the Royal Court, London SW1 on 5 August (020-7565 5000)

[Bart9000]

I wonder what all these BUSH BASHERS will do with themselves in 2 1/2yrs when he is no longer the president. The guy can't win.

Don't worry, we will be feeling the effects of his presidency LOOOONNNNNGGGG after it is over- one US dollar used to buy about 50 Czech Koruna....now it buys 22 (want to live abroad, but get paid or have wealth in dollars-it's now twice as hard)....six years ago, a Euro was about 80% of a dollar, now it is now about 125%. Energy prices have more than doubled , the national debt has skyrocketed (you realize that WE get to pay for that don't you...at least those of us not smart enough to get out), , BILLIONS of dollars have been transferred (through taxation) to the military industrial complex through the war effort, Saudi's and other energy producers (through high energy prices-"Oh my, we seem to have disabled Iraq, a major oil producer-what a coincidence"), and other prick friends of "dubya" through tax cuts......I suppose that it was just an accident how things worked out that way.

Regarding the variety issue, once someone-note gender neutrality- decides to ride on another person's dime, their WANTS get subordinated. If they don't desire to have their wants subordinated, they shouldn't enter into an arangement whereby someone else is subsidizing their lifestyle.

Conversely (yes this is treading on hypocrasy), the breadwinner in my opinion does have a little more lattitude, although they should not do anything that seriously jepordizes their ability to underwite the other parties lifestyle (like produce children with other partners).

b9k

[Rock Dog]

RN, since you asked...."what is your opinion on WOMEN who crave variety?"

It's the same thing as for the men who crave variety. At some primal level, women want to get the best DNA for their offspring.

This often adds up to the following:
1. Screw around with whoever you fancy while you're young. Then "settle down" with a nice guy who will stick around to support you. You get the alpha male DNA for your first children. Nice guy gets the reward of sex in return for taking care of them.

2. Settle down first, then screw around secretly. This way the woman is assured of support for her offspring without being limited in the variety of genetic contributors. It happens quite a bit too. We've covered this ground extensively several months ago. Stats indicate that btw. 2 and 10% of guys have children that, unknown to them, were fathered by someone else.

So, women seeking variety fits in with my theory quite well..... and is no surprise at all. This theory goes a long way towards explaining the so-called Badboy phenomenon.

To answer your other question " Would you be satisfied in a relationship where you BOTH indulged in extra-marital sex?" the answer is YES, with two provisions. First, we both follow the strictest precautions regarding safe-sex with any extramarital activity. Second, Don't go having kids with (or by) anyone else. That would be a fair deal. I have my fun and she has hers.

I think it would be nice if guys could go out and enjoy the variety that most of us crave. I also think that if more women would be honest with themselves and do the same thing, everybody could get laid a whole lot more often.

In fact, there was one time when I found out that a girlfriend(long-term) had been with another guy while we were going out. I was pissed off briefly, but chose not to say anything about it. What I DID do was to keep that bit of info in my back pocket. That way if I wanted to have a little fun of my own, she couldn't give me crap for doing the same thing she did.

That's the main problem.... people are selfish in most things and especially so when it comes to sex. Men want to get it on with multiple partners while expecting the woman to be 100% faithful. Women like to sneak around fulfilling their fantasies while trying to maintain a "Nice-girl" image. Fucking isn't what fucks things up.... it's the selfishness and jealousy that goes along with it.

Rock

[Streetlooker]

I wonder what all these BUSH BASHERS will do with themselves in 2 1/2yrs when he is no longer the president. The guy can't win.

[Bart9000]

I happened to be reading somewhere that the president is not by nature a reader....he basically tends to rely on those around him to become informed on issues, and then while they are making their cases to him, he instinctually judges on their level of CONFIDENCE AND SELF ASSUREDNESS how correct the information and opinions that they are feeding him are, and acts accordingly. Right off the bat, I can see one major problem with this tactic......there are two major groups of people who just REEK of confidence and self asurance-IDIOTS (who lack the capacity to entertain the possibility that their take on a situation may be incorrect, or realize that other points of view may have validity) and FANATICS (frequently one in the same, but more prone towards choosing to dismiss information not in tune with their worldview).

Moving back on topic a bit, there are a tremendous number of romance novels sold in the US....the genre is huge. Per the Romance Writers of America website (www.rwanational.com): "More than 2,000 romance titles are released every year, and the genre generates more than half (55%) of all paperback fiction sales in America." That's a pretty big piece of the pie. There's got to be a reason for that.......asserted by an author "we have over 50 million readers and romance novels are 35.6% of all popular fiction sold in North America (more stats. available at http://www.rwanational.org/statistics.stm)." Per http://www.storyforu.com/stats.htm, 93 % of romance novels are read by women (presumably the rest are gay men ). That this market exists, makes a statement about our women;

The following is an examination of themes prevalent in those novels (http://thediagram.com/2_5/romancethemes.html):

"Two basic elements comprise every romance novel: a central love story and an emotionally satisfying and optimistic ending.

* A Central Love Story—In a romance, the main plot concerns two people falling in love and struggling to make the relationship work. The conflict in the book centers on the love story. The climax in the book resolves the love story. A writer is welcome to as many subplots as she likes as long as the relationship conflict is the main story.
* An Emotionally Satisfying and Optimistic Ending—Romance novels end in a way that makes the reader feel good. Romance novels are based on the idea of an innate emotional justice—the notion that good people in the world are rewarded and evil people are punished. In a romance, the lovers who risk and struggle for each other and their relationship are rewarded with emotional justice and unconditional love.

Once the central love story and optimistic-ending criteria are met, a romance novel can be set anywhere and involve any number of plot elements. These settings and distinctions of plot create specific sub-genres within romance fiction."

It can be reasonably inferred from the above stated, that what our women WANT (and probably lie in bed fantasizing about) is a "struggle with a happy ending". This assertion goes a LONG way towards explaining AW behavior. Let me put it this way....in entering into a relationship with a 'boring nice guy', like say myself, there aren't so many obstacles that must be overcome, like dealing with my violent and abusive nature (got a temper, but generally keep it under control-realize that being driven by emotion is for losers), my substance abuse problems (never big in the drugs, and can't take the hangovers anymore), financial chaos (at present I don't make a lot of money, but habitually stay employed, and live comfortably), and having to fend off innumerable competing females to win my love (while not completely socially inept, and not too unpleasant to look at, I am far from the pretty boy or smooth talker that would cause masses of young AW to swoon).........unfortunately, real life isn't like romantic fiction with that cad safely tamed by the love of a good woman...............

To be fair, the same books sell very well internationally, from Scandanavia to Japan, which tends to indicate that ALL women want these things. The difference however is the underlying cultural message that has been broadcast to women in this country that they can have any and all things that they desire simply by virtue of owning a vagina. I can't help but think that women in Eastern Europe, South America, and the poorer countries of Asia are just a bit more realistic.

B9k

[Streetlooker]

Hello everyone,

Just thought I write a piece to contrubute. I have been single for 10 yrs and never really ever dated any other women here in the US cause of all the various things discussed on this part of the forum. I monger in thailand and the Phils mostly with future trips always in the works The other day while getting my car repaired I was in the waiting room and a show called divorce court was on. In this case it was a dispute between a women that was married NINE TIMES. WOW 9 times are you kidding me? Now this women had a teenage girl who had to grow up in a home with men coming in and out of it like a Brothel. The Judge was a female of course and guess what. The whole show the women got to bash the guy accusing him of all sorts of things Like cheating, abusing her child, borrowing money from her kids savings account to buy a truck and over all being a lazy bum without a Job. During the very brief time He was allowed to speak (I say it was 2 minutes for him and 25 minutes for her)He produced payroll stubs that had proven he had been working for the last 5 years, but just recently got layed off Hotel room purchases on there joint CC account that he never recalled going to. Said he didn't know she was married 8 times before him.(THIS was his 2nd marriage) and overall gave the impression he was trying very hard to help out her kid with some disiplinary rules (CURFEWS and the Like)that her mother never got around to inforcing ect ect. Well anyways The women continued to bash this guy merciless till finally at the end the Judge orderd him to pay her for the money she borrowed from the kids saveings account to buy him a car to get to work in. What up with that crap LOL. I Thought to myself THANK GOODNESS I done with these american money grubbing women forever and I am now totally commited to booking a trip to Thailand very soon.

Thanks for letting me get this off my mind Its and SEE you in Pattaya guys.

[Chocha Monger]

Bart,

If you can make it work successfully, you'll have the option of being in your own "mansion" banging vixens thousands of miles from the old sex prison and still earning green. It can be a means of earning your cake and eating it too, and the extra toppings would certainly be a bonus. Showing up with a brief case of money and bribing the local mayor and police chief at your chosen destination is not an option for the average guy, so we have to come up with workable alternatives if you don't have a skill in high demand at your intended destination that actually pays a living wage.

[Bart9000]

I've been endeavoring up that way.........yet to earn dime one after a somewhat healthy investment, but I have hopes that a reasonably healthy five figure check is on it's way.....as well as possibly one or two others, probably in the low five figure range.

My first goal is to quit my little shit job to concentrate on doing this full time.........

B9k

[Chocha Monger]

Has anyone here dabbled in ecommerce as a means of earning a living in the US, while living or spending a considerable amount of time enjoying the pleasures of warmer climes? This could possibly be the answer to escaping AWs without having to go tribal.

[Sinanju Master]

if the two of us were seeing each other on a "fuck-buddy" basis (no powerful emotional attachments) and she didn't expect me to support a lifestyle that she would LIKE to be accustomed to (lots of jewelry and clothes and shoes, etc) I'd have no problem with her seeing other people. I'd ride it for as long as it lasts (YES, pun intended! LOL). In that situation, the two of us wouldn't demand a commitment from the other while secretly abrogating our agreement in order to have our cake and eat it too. HOWEVER, if we were in a monogamous relationship (the two of us agreeing to see NO ONE ELSE) and she fucks around after I give a part of my soul to her and she's enjoying my attention and gifts every now and then IN ADDITION to sampling sausage OUTSIDE the relationship, I'd walk through Hell wearing gasoline underwear in order to get the chance to make her life a living Hell on earth. So, Doll, in answer to your question, it depends, but, since you know me better than any poster here, you KNOW I'd go about it fairly. By that, I mean there would be no double standard.

[Rubber Nursey]

Men have always sought to spread their genes far and wide with as many women as possible. On the other hand, women have always sought a mate who would stick around to help care of her offspring... thereby increasing the chances of their survival.
...Men want it. They want it often and (I can attest to this) they absolutely THRIVE on variety. Women are, by nature, opposed to this. The last thing they want is to give it up for some guy who's going to bugger off on them the second he gets bored.... which can happen after a year, a month, a week or even a couple of days. Let's face it, most of us here have that exact goal in mind when we meet the average woman. They know it and we try to convince them otherwise.

Rock (and others) can I ask...what is your opinion on WOMEN who crave variety? Would you be satisfied in a relationship where you BOTH indulged in extra-marital sex? According to most of you guys, it's in a man's 'nature' to want frequent sex with lots of different women - what if that same compulsion is part of your WOMAN'S nature? Does she have the same freedoms that you expect to have in a relationship? Do you allow her to visit hookers or go out looking for a bit of strange, even if your sex life at home is satisfying, on the basis that SHE needs variety to 'thrive'?

PS. By using the 'nature' argument, you're not only excusing men for their womanising ways, but you're also excusing women for all the things that you guys so often accuse us of. Women are genetically programmed to find the best looking and most powerful lion in the pack, ensuring her offspring will not only be strong and healthy, but will also be protected and provided for as they grow up. Survival of the fittest. It's a wee bit hypocritical to assert that men should be allowed to sow their wild oats because it's in their genes - but at the same time condemn women for only sleeping with guys who have good looks and/or money.