American Women

[Dickhead]

Originally posted by miller2k
I have used prostitutes to meet a physiological need (sex). I've been living a gypsy-like existence for the last couple of years and, while I don't have many problems finding women, I think that it would be unfair to initiate relationships with women just to have sex when I knew that I really didn't want to be in a relationship at that moment. Instead of seducing women and making them think that I love them, I simply go to a sex-worker and take care of my needs.

Exactly! I'm a dickhead, not a liar, and I believe that (most) men (in general) give love to get sex while (most) women (in general)give sex to get love. This may work in the long run in certain cases, but leads to PRETENSE in the short run. And jacking off gets really boring and is not as satisfactory as meaningless sex. Although, I must say, no one jacks me off as well as I jack off myself. Before I read this board, I never realized that anyone would actually pay for a hand job and I am astounded that anyone would.

[Mill Just]

joe_zop, David...

You both are right. Maybe I did paint with too broad a brush. I should've made it clear what I meant to say. I was refering primarily to the group of men on this board who have made it a habit of whining about the horrible women in American when they are unwilling/unable to do the work to make themselves better people.
"The Airplane Effect" is a strong factor, but I think that there's more. Not to get too psycho-analytical, but I think that the relaxed state comes from the attainment of their primary goal (sex) combined with the "airplane effect". However, to the person with emotional problems, this release is many more times more extreme. The completion of the "act" represents acceptance (even for that brief moment) and, therefore, release. (Aside from the obvious physiological release). For the vast majority: We feel good, off-guard, and happy...so, we are more willing to open up. For the few with psychological/emotional problems it is an extreme rush that can be very addictive. This is off-topic, I know, but I think that there are a couple of these "emotional cripples" in this section of the board.
Changing topics...I have used prostitutes to meet a physiological need (sex). I've been living a gypsy-like existence for the last couple of years and, while I don't have many problems finding women, I think that it would be unfair to initiate relationships with women just to have sex when I knew that I really didn't want to be in a relationship at that moment. Instead of seducing women and making them think that I love them, I simply go to a sex-worker and take care of my needs. Right now, I have a girlfriend so my "hunting" days are over for now. I've been in one place for a while and things are going good and I'm in a position where I can give a woman all the attention she needs/deserves. Sex-workers play an important role in the world. If it wasn't for them, who knows what my bodily needs would've forced me to do. I might've been one of those, "love 'em and leave 'em" guys or, worse...some guy who whines on a message board about how terrible all american women are...

The stars are out tonight, big and bright. A girl is being serenaded by Mariachis down the street. I feel like ...

THE HAPPIEST MAN ALIVE....

[Dickhead]

Yes, we want useful information from people who have actually been with hookers in different places. I have posted actual, hopefully useful information about Méjico, Costa Rica, The Netherlands, Hong Kong, Australia, France, Malta, The Bahamas, several of the United States and a bunch of other places I disremember right now. Locations, prices, local practices, etc. This is what we men want to know. Does she do the poison dragon drill? Is she good at reverse cowgirl? Does she look good in a pearl necklace? What's the address? What hours are they open? How is security? Is the room clean? Does the gal provide the condoms or is it BYOB (bring your own bag)?

All these philosophical discussions are well and good but if the input is coming from a bunch of fucking sorority girls or naive frat boys with Coppertone tans who wouldn't know a hooker from a kick in the ass, what relevance does it have?

I mean, if we wanted perspectives on "American Women" from people who did NOT participate in prostitution, we could just sit in any Starbucks and listen to a bunch of scum sucking yuppies ***** about their wives while they finger their dicks through a hole in their pocket.

Someone has needed to say this for a long time and I am just the dickhead to say it. Monger and contribute or sit your quiche eating ass on the porch.

[CBGBConnisur]

I think David is simply in denial, this site is strictly to exchange info on how to get laid, its made for men simply put to get laid.

[Dickhead]

Originally posted by David
I'm one of the few who hasn't been with a prostitute.

Then what is your purpose for hanging around on the board? The board is for guys who want to know how, where, and when to find prostitutes, wherever they may be in the world. It ain't a fuckin' tea party for vicarious thrill seekers.

Please go to the home page and read this:

"MISSION STATEMENT: This is the World Sex Guide. Our mission is simple: Finding women and getting laid. If you are offended by stuff like this, I don't care. "

[David]

I'm one of the few who hasn't been with a prostitute.


Stranger99,

"A relationship is a mutual acceptance of the way we are." -- an ... interesting, and in many ways, beautiful thought.


USbabe,

I'll throw in a welcome (even an offical one if you like). I have to admitt that I don't remember if I have of yet. But yes, it is very nice to have a bit more parity in the discussion.


Miller2K,

I'll chime in. (Also, let me note, that I am almost envious that your THE HAPPIEST MAN ALIVE -- *smiles* such positivity.).

[David]

RN (and Miller2K):

As to men sharing intimite stuff with sex workers. I think the reason is twofold. Firstly, there is the ... airplane effect (I don't know what else to call it). Two strangers on an airplane (or bus or whatever) meet and share their intimate details of their lives, and then go their own ways. It is safe to do because they know it won't ... leak into the rest of thier lives (which can't be said about disclosure to anyone you relate with regularly).

As to people being more direct and saying what they want in relationships. Hm. I know what I'm going to say doesn't *directly* address your comment, but it seems appropriate none the less.

I think the games we play in relationships have a useful purpose. To take the example you meantioned (about the woman not wanting to be seen the slutt) ... I suspect that with most women in that situation, they would much prefer that it happened "naturally", and that words to that effect are not exchanged.

In another sense, let us assume an aquaintance approached you and said he *really* liked you, found you magnetic, and would dearly like to enter a long-term relationship with you. He is definitely being up-front and honest. However he short-circuits some of the more "normal" dating rituals which serve a purpose. I suspect that, while you would feel flattered, you also wouldn't feel as comfortable as you would if he had invited you to go to some musical event.

His forthrightness puts the burden on you to respond when (in all likelyhood) you don't feel similarly. While this probably works fine with more centered women (who might suggest a musical event...), with many women I suspect his approach would fail miserably.

Just my thoughts.

Smiles, best wishes, and it's been a long times,
David

[Dickhead]

Originally posted by stranger99 I think most of has have or had been with prostitutes. What led or is leading us to do that?

Well, I've been with prostitutes (of course), and what led ME to do that is I needed some pussy and either wasn't dating anyone right then or was in a foreign country where I didn't know anyone, and didn't feel like performing the delicate emotional surgery necessary to pick up a non-prostitute and cajole her into the sack. Pretty simple.

But I bet some other guys have gone to prostitutes to get some specific service they couldn't get "at home." Since I'm a complete dickhead, I don't even bother getting into a relationship with a gal who won't give me BOTH of the only two services I absolutely require, which are fuck and suck. Pretty basic.

[CBGBConnisur]

Stranger99, I'm not too sure which workplace you were refering to where someone can be sued, did you mean the USA or did you mean Europe? Definitely in America, if a male worker gives any reference to a woman's physical appearance or sexuality, he can expect to lose his job or be sued, or both. I don't know about bosses in Europe asking such things of their female colleagues while I was working there. There is a strong feminist movement in Europe, however European feminists differ from their American counterparts in that they still enjoy men. That medical student wasn't the only case, there are many women who are pursuing education who work in this profession. In addition its not too uncommon to find men who offer sexual services, though in most cases these men offer their services to other men (homosexuals), in very few cases they are offered to heterosexual women. Case in point is Amsterdam, where 95 percent of services are offered to heterosexual and homosexual men.

I also agree with you Stranger99, that prostitution isn't exactly a high level profession but in most European countries it doesn't relegate the prostitute to the fringe of society. There are many people who do it for a while when they are young but it doesn

USBabe, I just thought reading between the lines when you mention 'sex worker' that it was something bizarre to you thats why I thought it to be a derogatory term.

[Stranger99]

CBGB...It is not 100% accurate to say that in Europe prostitutes do not live at the margin of the society. They are, especially the ones on the street. The medicine student you are mentioning might exist but it is not representative of the large majority of prostitutes.
I agree with you on the sex-reference used in the media here vs. Europe. I believe both situations are, in reality, 2 extremes. Here there is a false puritanism, in Europe sex is used to the excess where a naked woman is put in a commercial advertising cheese.
In real life, here you risk a law suit if you make a compliment to a co-worker, in Europe (or South America) you can easily find situations where the boss asks his secretary to wear a mini-skirt at work.
Probably the right balance is represented by a few countries. The Scandinavian countries or Holland are the ones that come to my mind.

Answering to the previous posts: are you sure you can easily categorize people visiting prostitutes? I think that behind the same actions there are many different reasons and backgrounds. Not sure that they are all looking for the same thing. Actually maybe sex is not the prime reason for a vast majority.

Maybe an interesting discussion could be generated by an honest admission by us. I think most of has have or had been with prostitutes. What led or is leading us to do that?

For RN: while working did you ever think of one of your clients as a potential partner for your life. I know it is kind of a "Pretty Woman" situation but I am just curious to know if you had ever thought of imagining some of you private life coming out of your professional one.

[Joe Zop]

Now, now, Miller2k, that's a pretty broad brush you're painting with! While I agree with a lot of what you've said both here and elsewhere, portraying large portions of guys who use and open up to sex workers as emotional cripples is a bit much. Let's face it -- it's easier to open up to strangers in general, because there's a basic level of safe anonymity there. That's true whether it happens in this scenario, or whether it's my mother telling her emotional life story to a stranger on a bus or plane, or a customer pouring out their heart to a shoe salesperson. It's the very distance that adds a degree of safety.

I agree with you that honest expression of emotion is the key to a successful relationship, but I don't agree that emotive confessions to strangers, whether it be after the throes of business-based sexual activity or not, is in any way an indication of emotional capability or stability. (And in real life, it takes two to make that honesty process work well, also.)

Here's two other theories in response to RN's query that can be tried on for size:

1. After and around the process of sexual activity, which is an expression of physical intimacy, extending the equation to emotional intimacy isn't a large stretch, especially since at that point we've all got lots of endorphines running though our systems and are thereby literally often feeling no pain. Combine that with the safety of the stranger, as mentioned above, and plenty of people will be willing to open up, if only as a way of extending the moment as the physical afterglow fades...

2. The sex worker, regardless of all the other potentially negative perceptions that might float around, is definitely viewed as a professional in the field of intimate relations, and thereby given credence as one who might provide insight. When I go to a physician, I can only get the best treatment if I reveal everything of relevance. The same equation may well also be at work here.

Again, I don't necessarily disagree with your take on things; it just seems to me to be a rather universally negative rendering. Admittedly, some threads of conversation here can make one think that lots of those involved are mysoginistic rage-a-holics, but I think that's as big a mistake as the one-size-fits-all surface that often comes through about women in these posts. The truth is almost invariably more complex.

[Mill Just]

"The indepth conversations and the raw "expressions of self"that come from men in a commercial sex setting...aided by the anonymity...Why is it that when strangers handed me money, they were more open and honest than any prospective boyfriends were? We are all (both men and women) playing too many mind games in relationships..."

AMEN, RN!!!! Men often feel more comfortable with "professional" women because there is a very simple, money for affection, exchange. Many men, even in this day and age, still have a problem with the complexities of a relationship.Many men want what they want and often have little regard as to how they get it
or who they have to hurt to get what they want. Blame part of this on culture and how we were raised. Men are taught to be goal oriented and we perceive everything as a win/lose situation. We want to get laid, so we engage in a head game to get what we want. Of course, many women play the same game, but with
a different objective. Some men (well-represented by many who post in this section) are emotional cripples, borderline socio-paths. They are buried in negativity and long ago lost the spark of life that seperates men from cavemen. These men would be paralyzed by the prospect of opening up their hearts and
letting the world see what they are made of (and, in many cases, they would be well within reason to be afraid). So they go through life pissing and moaning about how the world has let them down. Meanwhile, they grow darker and darker
inside. So dark that they lose any semblance of normal emotional stability. But if they go to a sex-worker, the deal is simple: Money for physical affection. They are so relieved at the simplicity of the transaction that they let their guard down and open up. Why? This is all based on the fact that this type of man has low self-esteem and would feel less humiliated by looking foolish in front of a stranger than a person they know. If they only realized that this intimacy is the secret to being succesful in relationships... Men that can master the skill of being honest have the most success...If you're an emotional cripple, admit it and you
soon won't be...

by the way, thanks for the kind words RN...I've secretly enjoyed your posts for along time as a lurker in other sections...


Bye Bye, Sin...

"I've tarried on this board for too long now. My purpose has been served"

Sin...if that purpose was to come off as a complete *******...BRAVO, Well Done...I can appreciate a man who sets realistic goals for himself and meets them....

So long, US Babe...good to see that the whackos in here didn't scare you off.

[USbabe]

Originally posted by CBGBConnisur
USBabe, you mention the term sex worker as if its a horrible connotation, or a low class person's occupation.

What words did I use to give you that impression? I used the word "sex worker" because that's what RN used.

I don't recall making any judgmental statements about RN at all. I'm completely unfamiliar with the subject, hence my questions.

[CBGBConnisur]

USBabe, you mention the term sex worker as if its a horrible connotation, or a low class person's occupation. In Europe, its a natural thing, by the way, there are just as many male prostitutes in Europe as there are female. Its just only in the United States where prostitution, in the view of the Christian right is considered morally repugnant, and on the other hand, the feminist left in the US feels thats its an exploitation of women. One of the things I noticed about prostitution in Europe is that more affluent and educated women take part in it. Why is this so? Because for one thing, sex is not evil, watch a television program or look at an advertisement, the European mass media is more sexually provacative than its American counterpart. American advertising and media focuses on being "warm and fuzzy" or humorous whereas European advertising is more sexual.
I found this to be true in South America as well. The second thing is legality, its perfectly legal to engage in this activity and there is no real legal stigma attached to it. Third is the issue of money, part time jobs are more rare in Europe than they are in the US, and therefore prostitution is a source of part time income. Most women in Europe work in this profession as a part time occupation. In fact a woman I met while in Paris, was a medical student, who happened to moonlight as an escort.

[USbabe]

Dear RN, what a very sweet welcome you gave me! Thank you! I haven't read any other forums here, so I hope you'll forgive me when I did a double-take upon reading that you're a sex worker. This is a very personal question, and if you feel comfortable answering, I'd really appreciate it (and if you don't, I understand and hope that you aren't offended). How did you become a sex worker? I mean, was it a conscious choice or the best of your options at that time? In no way am I trying to insult you, but the concept is completely foreign to me.

You said, "Why can't that happen in the "real world". Why is it that when strangers handed me money, they were more open and honest than any prospective boyfriends were?"

Here's just a guess. In a romantic relationship, feelings are vulnerable. In a "business" sexual relationship, it is different. What did they have to lose by opening up to you? Things are much more cut and dry. You may or may not see the person again. He knows that you are with other people, so the idea of "cheating" really doesn't apply. That type of situation is just very clear, whereas in love, usually nothing is clear!

I wanted to share an article that I think is absolutely brilliant. It's entitled "How to Argue," by Michael Crichton and first appeared in "Playboy magazine" in 1991. Too often when you argue (especially with a woman), a guy can come off as either wimpy or a complete jerk. This tells you how to WIN and keep your dignity and self-respect unharmed. It's a little bit long, but I think every word is worth reading.

http://www.crichton.org/howtoargue2.shtml