American Women

[Stranger99]

I believe that all the women (and all the men) around the world have a common pattern.
American women for the majority of their qualities (and defects) are no different than any other woman in the rest of the western-culture globe.

Having said this, I think the purpose of this entire forum is the discussion on what makes them different (better or worse).

I am not trying to make an easy point saying that girls in the US as an average weigh 40 lb more than their European counterparts.
I am talking about class. This is what a man really likes in a woman. More than beauty. And this is what, I feel, women here lack. I am not talking about Armani clothing. I am talking about a natural self-consciousness that makes a woman leader, and not a follower in a relationship.

RN: We all tend to idealize "the perfect counterpart" that is going to live the rest of our life happily with us. Eventually life and love are a compromise between the idea of what is perfect and what is available out there. A relationship is a mutual acceptance of the way we are.

M2K: I admire you (as I had opportunities to read some of your other posts in the WSG) for the choices you made in your life. Of course it is also easier to live a non-materialistic life in Mexico than it would be to do the same in the US. Bottom line is that it's easier to live like a Mexican in Mexico than like a Mexican in the US. That would be an accomplishment.

[Rubber Nursey]

PS..Miller2k,
As always, everything you have said so far has brought a smile to my face. You have always been one of the most intelligent, compassionate and understanding men who post in this forum, and from your attitude it is easy to see why you are THE HAPPIEST MAN ALIVE. More power to you honey...the world (or should I say, the female population) needs more men like you.

Ok, you can all flame me and call me a rabid feminazi now... lol

[Rubber Nursey]

USBabe,
I was the only woman posting in this section for a long time on the old forum, (and I'm not even an American woman! LOL), and found after a while that being the only female voice in a topic like this can leave you open to some guys dumping ALL of their frustrations and anger towards women directly at YOUR doorstep. I wanted to say that I think you are doing a fantastic job holding your own in this debate. I was hoping for a long time that an American woman would actually join this thread, mainly because whenever I said something, people tended to think "Well yes, but you are Australian...women are different here". I don't think they are. You can ask any Australian male what he thinks of Australian women, and you will get the exact same responses as are given in this forum.

Men and women simply don't understand each other, and in many cases I think they don't even want to! I think often the differences between the sexes...which I don't personally believe amounts to much at all mind you...are blamed, rather than accepting that relationships fail because of our own mistakes and flaws. Finding that I was not compatible with one man, or even a succession of different men, does not mean that "all men are bastards". It means that I have yet to find the man that has all the qualities that I am looking for. Does that make me fussy? Probably. But does that mean I automatically despise every man out there who doesn't conform to my "standards"? Of course not.

I have mentioned many times (mainly in the Morality section), that my time as a sex worker gave me insights into the male psyche that changed my perceptions of men forever. The indepth conversations and the raw "expressions of self" that come from men in a commercial sex setting...aided by the anonymity...showed me that men suffer from the same insecurities, fears and desires as women do. They asked me questions about my feelings and insecurities as a woman, and showed genuine interest in the responses. Why can't that happen in the "real world". Why is it that when strangers handed me money, they were more open and honest than any prospective boyfriends were? We are all (both men and women) playing too many mind games in relationships...both trying to remain in control and both guarding against getting hurt. I think we would all benefit greatly from open conversations with each other about who we are and what we want from a relationship. Sounds corny I know...but how are we supposed to measure up to each others standards, when we have no idea what those standards are?

For example, the woman who won't "put out" on the first date. You may be thinking that she is a frigid cow or that she isn't attracted to you...but she may actually be very interested in a relationship with you, and trying not to give the impression that she is a sl*t! If you want sex with no commitment, tell her. She may be perfectly happy to do it on the first date if she knows that's what you want. If you want a relationship...tell her what that means to you. She can't read your mind.

USBabe...welcome to the WSG. I have agreed with everything you have said so far, in fact you seem to be a very similar woman to myself (and don't take that as an insult, seeing as I said I used to be a sex worker! LOL). Keep up the good work honey...the American woman needs you!

[Paddy]

Hi Guys,

Could we keep the content of this area to "American Women" per se??? Some of you beyond macho characters are getting carried away and are way off the intended topic.

It's time to stop "banging" your dicks on your laptops everytime someone says something which offends your beyond macho male egos.

[Sinanju Master]

miller2k, don't flatter yourself. You didn't touch a nerve, you merely exasparate me. JUST when I thought that you had an understanding you go and fuck it up. You don't surprise me though. I DID allow past experiences (and the people involved) to "control" me, but the ongoing self-reflection I've been doing changed that. I'll STILL keep on my toes and weed out the lumps of coal, which are many, but on the other side of the coin, I'll lighten up and not keep up my shields 24/7. Low self-esteem? Nope. I KNOW what the hell I have to offer and you can bet yer ass it's worth its weight in Platinum.

USBabe, I can understand your reluctance to provide yer e-mail address, so, I'll do the honors from my end FIRST. Starlit1003sky@yahoo.com. Should you choose to send a response, a recap of the postings (yours and mine) will be forthcoming and an explanation of current things will be provided. Perhaps, you may be a bit surprised, maybe not.

CBGB, toss caution to the wind and GO FOR IT! When you look back on your life, if you have any regrets, regret the things you DID, instead of the things you never had the courage to do.

nofatso, I like your postings and I don't care WHAT the others say. If a man has an opinion, he shouldn't waffle on it unless he is proven utterly wrong.

I've tarried on this board for too long now. My purpose has been served and I actually got my point across to a lot of intelligent people (well save for one) who saw my point although they may not have wholeheartedly agreed 100% with my assessment.

So, USBabe, nofatso, Dickhead and CBGB, take care all, and I hope to bring to fruition my travel plans so I can share some stories.

PS
miller2k, you may even get YOUR wishes granted.... after all, Dorothy, the Tin Man, and the Cowardly Lion got THEIRS!

[Jwny72]

Perhaps this topic should be entitled "American Sexuality", or even "The Dating/Screwing Scene in the USA", just to make the distinction that the prevelant complaint is about how hard it is to find someone to be with, sexually and otherwise, in our present culture. I believe this is a complaint that US men and women share. It just so happens that all the complainers in here are men (well, it is a website about how to find prostitutes, so I guess that figures...US Babe, how the hell did you find us? ;-)

[Mill Just]

Sin...did I touch a nerve? Sorry. I'm not like an ostrich. It's just that I don't let my negative experiences control me. There are many assholes in the world (male and female), but I refuse to let them affect me. Why would you give someone so much control over you? If someone screws me over, I just let it go...I learn from my mistakes and chalk up the bad experience to the lack of character of the other person. What you do is symptomatic of someone with low self-esteem. You let negative experiences re-enforce your own negative feelings about yourself. By all means, continue...I am happy because I choose to be happy, you are a twisted, negative, lonely twerp because you choose to be that way. You are what you think.

CBGB...Is Chicago a small town? How about San Francisco? I was in the big city dating jungle just like you. And I went to Mexico to live a simple, non-materialistic life, not for the women. Of course, I love women of all races and nationalities so I'm having fun. Keep up this erratic behavior and travelling to Europe won't be sufficient anymore, you'll need to hop on the Space Shuttle and head out to the Moon.

Fedup...This is all definitely a two way street. There are just as many bad women as bad men and both sexes are equally responsible. But I basically write here to contradict the people who want to cry and moan about how ALL American women are like this, etc.

and assuming that you're all right and American women are indeed more selfish than other women...could this be because the USA has so many men who refuse to look past themselves and aknowledge that anybody else has desires. Could this selfishness among American men be the cause of any perceived selfishness in women? If men can't/won't satisfy their women then is it wrong for them to look after themselves?

Well, out of respect for Sin's little problems, I won't close by saying that I'm the HAPPIEST MAN ALIVE...I'll just say good bye as I sit here on my balcony, over-looking the mountains with sunshine everywhere and a gentle breeze on my forehead. It's about 80 degrees now and in a bit I'll be working and then I'll go for a moon-lit stroll with a song in my heart and a bounce in my step. Life is wonderful, you should try it sometime...

[CBGBConnisur]

Stranger99:
"In a few words I reckon there are many advantages living in the US for what relates to your professional life, many disadvantages, I guess, for what relates to your personal life. "
You are so correct on this issue Stranger99, I have friends from Europe who say the same thing, as far as professional and economic opportunities go, America is great but insofar as personal relations such as love and romance, America is not so good. I have a friend from France who sums it this way he says
"America is a good place to work but France is a good place to live."

[Joe Zop]

Stranger99 -- I think you're dead on. Most Americans are essentially xenophobic. They're not particularly hostile to other people and cultures, just uninterested beyond the degree where it directly affects them personally. Not all -- I know plenty of folks who don't fit in that box -- but the majority basically treats the rest of the world as a show on television.

[Joe Zop]

Originally posted by CBGBConnisur
You said I am an abusive and hate filled person, you don't know one goddam thing about me. Everyone has a good and bad side to them.

That may be so, but calling a total stranger a b*itch, telling her fuck you, enjoy your vibrator, and that it would be more entertaining to have sex with a vampire, isn't exactly presenting the good side.

It's a two way street -- you've certainly been quick enough to make a judgement based, frankly, on far more reasonably-toned posts than yours. I understand frustration, but a straight-forward personal attack coming from, as far as I've been able to figure out, a casual, "Oh, you might have seen me in Paris" is, at best, pretty poor discussion protocol.

[Stranger99]

As an European leaving in the US I would like to give my contribution to this discussion.

I have a "Love & Hate" relationship with this country.
Love si the fantastic opportunities you get, the true recognition of your achievements, the feeling you can really climb up in the social ladder.
Hate is the boring uniformity, the false cordiality, the shallow relationships, the conservative image.

In a few words I reckon there are many advantages living in the US for what relates to your professional life, many disadvantages, I guess, for what relates to your personal life.

So talking about American women I rarely found persons interested in really knowing the "other". Where other is somebody with different background, different culture and interests. Of course there are exceptions to this but in general terms I always perceive an initial interest (due probably to the exotic factor of knowing a foreigner) followed by a progressive "who-could care-less" attitude.

In this respect I think women just reflect the attitude of the American people. There is a generalized fear for whatever doesn't conform to familiar standards.
Do you guys notice that all cities here look the same? Same restaurants, same hotels, same shops all over the country. Isn't this boring? Isn't this the ultimate expression of a flattened culture?

You can call American women liberal if they are gonna give it you the first night out (and much more if they'll refuse it to you on the second) but isn't it by far more conservative that sense of superiority given by the ignorance of what exists outside of them?

[USbabe]

There is a big difference between truth and opinion, and unfortunately many seem to think that their own opinions are truth. I'd like to be self-centered enough to think that all my opinions are truth! But I know that it isn't so.

It is my opinion (and not truth) that your failure with women has to do far more with a closed mind than anything. You are judging millions and millions of American women by the actions of a few. You could be a victim of your own circumstance. I don't know many intelligent, educated women who prefer the company of a man who is not open-minded. Unfortunately, if your opinions here are indicative of what you truly believe, then you are sincerely prejudiced and close-minded. That, more than anything else, is a turn-off to any woman who is worth knowing.

Quite frankly, if you insist on making pre-judgements on any woman because she's American, then you can't complain about women who rally against all American men because of the actions of a few. Do you want to prove all the man-haters in the world right?! Unfortunately, you're playing right into their hands, whether or not you realize it.

I'm sincerely sorry about the rotten things that have happened in your life, but you seem to be creating your own circumstance by victimizing yourself. How about taking a fresh approach and rising to the occasion?! It can be done. But ONLY if you want it.

Negative thinking will almost always bring negative results.

[CBGBConnisur]

FedUp as soon as I get my Work Visa for Europe, I will finally leave the Rotten Apple. By the way, you mentioned there being a lot of hot women at nightclubs in NY. I hang out in Soho and Greenwich Village(in fact I was there last night) which is about as trendy and glamorous as you can get, I would rank no more than one in ten women a 7 or better. If you go clubbing in France or in Spain, especially around the Riviera, the percentage of hot women is more like 75 percent, enough so you have a chance of meeting someone. USBabe to each his own, I couldn't care to know more about you nor will I ever want to. But I will keep saying that a European woman will always top her American counterpart in every situation until I am blue in the face because it is true, contrary to the gross exaggerations of the media and Hollywood. I spent an extended amount of time over there to get a feel of what the place was like and it is a whole different world. A better world in fact. There's a saying that the truth shall set you free. And the truth that I discovered has set me free. You said I am an abusive and hate filled person, you don't know one goddam thing about me. Everyone has a good and bad side to them.

[USbabe]

sinanjumaster, i don't question your motives for asking for my e-mail address, but kindly remember that you are asking for something which you aren't willing to give publicly yourself, either. with an abusive and hate-filled person like cgbg here, i would be a fool to give him any more information about myself. i understand that we all get angry, but when someone uses vitriolic language and behavior towards a person for absolutely no reason, he clearly has internal problems and needs to learn to control and manage his anger. none of my friends would put up with that garbage. it's amazing that a man would treat a woman like that and then wonder "why" women aren't attracted to him. we reap what we sow.

miller, i don't doubt your words a bit. the person who is able to look beyond himself is a happy, successful person. we're all self-centered to a certain degree, and of course it's good to want to protect ourselves, but completely self-centered persons rob themselves of the joy and true inner satisfaction that comes from true selflessness. personally, i am attracted to people who don't blame all their problems on others and who have enough self-respect to not accept bad behavior from others, either in personal or professional relationships. the men i know who have more women than they know what to do with are the ones who know how to treat a woman with respect while not allowing her to step all over them, either. it's very easy to wallow in self-pity. i've certainly done it, and it has gotten me nowhere. there are many, many american men who are [CodeWord127], murderers, abusers (the vast majority of people on death row are men), and total sobs. but i can never fathom blaming an entire nation on the crimes and boorish behavior of a few! it's oh-so-easy to blame everything on the other person but much, much harder to look within ourselves to find out why we're being treated a certain way or why something isn't working.

it's also true that we see what we want to see. militant feminists blame men on everything and are essentially just waiting for a man to make a mistake so they can blame him and say, "see, men are all evil." quite frankly, i see an amazing number of similarities between militant feminists and many of the views here. i see the blame completely on women with men just being victims. there are many ways to protect ourselves without being completely vulnerable, and those who can do it well usually have very few complaints.

someone once described insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. if one approach is not working in life, i usually try another until i find what works. there are the doers in life, and there are the whiners. personally, i choose to spend my time with the doers. the good news is that anyone can be a doer! the optimistic viewpoint can be adopted by anyone of any sex, race, religion, and all that.

think about men you know who seem to have no problems with women at all. what do they do differently or how do they act differently than you do? i am very blessed to know some exceptional people in my life, and when i have problem with something, i wonder how they would handle the situation.

here's a secret. want to be known as an extremely interesting person? listen to other people and ask questions about what they've said to show them you have an interest in them or their activities. even though you've given almost no information about yourself, you'll be a person that others will go out of their way to want to know.

[Dickhead]

Originally posted by Fedup
. I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy done than live in New York.

I'd rather have a free bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy