Massages

[Wooly1]

Do you really have to worry about a girl at an AMP being a cop? I mean, I dont see why a business would be set up purely for stings, and if it was then it wouldnt last long

[Boxcc]

Realfun, you make very excellent points. My point was basically my own personal observations of AMPs. They are almost all set up the same way with the same rituals involved. But, like you said, YMMV with every experience in an AMP. The more experience you gain, the better equiped you are to handle any situation that arises in an AMP or any other mongering situation for that matter.

That's another reason why this forum is so good. It gives guys like us who have lived through this and experienced it all first-hand a chance to share their knowledges with others. I would have loved to have had access to a forum like this when I was first starting out.

I also agree with you totally about feeling very alone in this hobby, or at least before I got on here and made a lot of good friends that do the same thing. Before I found WSG, I felt the same as you, isolated even ashamed sometimes. I felt that I just couldn't discuss this hobby with anybody. I too went through the phase where I told myself that I was going to quit, only to come back with a vengance. Now that I know that others do it too, I don't feel that 'psychological seclusion' that you described so well any more.

As far as AMPs go, typically you pay your house fee to get the massage then you negotiate with the girl for what you want to get. You have to do the "cop check" so that the girl knows that you are not LE. Usually rolling over with a hard-on does the trick on that score!

But, you will run across a place that does not offer fs at all. They are basically a jack-shack and will include a HJ with the massage or a small tip may get you the same result. I agree with RealFun that you must understand exactly what you are getting with your money before you give it up.

Just like in everything else, you have good people and bad people. Some girls give a true GFE for very little, some try to separate as much money from you as possible while giving hardly anything in return. You have to go with the flow and be prepared.

Escorts, independents and sw's are for another discussion, but I usually feel safer at an AMP than with any other mongering situation. It is a more controlled, safer environment. Once you are sure the girl is not a cop, and they are sure you are not one either, then it usually is the safest way to get sex for money. - just an opinion!

[RealFun]

Boxcc wrote: "It has been my experience that it doesn't matter what city or state you are in, if you come across an AMP, they usually operate the same exact way, or pretty close anyway. The only difference usually is the price and quality!"

Generally that's true, but there are some AMPs that operate on that rep but provide little to nothing for extras. That's where the finer points of negotiating extras comes in handy. Experience and thinking with the right head are key. For every category of hobbying there are women out there that will string you along making you think you're getting more, get you to pay, then stop you short. Like an escort that tells you $150 for full service, and then after she has your money won't give up the booty, saying that, to her, a hand job is full service.

For a long time when I was a nervous newbie I'd try to be real clever and subtle when asking for extras. Extended double entendres, lots of gestures and leading statements, etc, always trying to avoid crossing that line beteen legal and illegal. I even did this when I knew for sure the girl wasn't LE.

It was a huge revelation when I figured that you only have to be careful when you think there's a chance that the girl is LE or setting you up or something. If you know that she isn't trying to catch you in the act, like at an AMP or if its a well reviewed provider, then basically you can say whatever you want.

Here's how a lot of providers that are experienced rip-off artists will get a "newbie" hobbyist to pay extra: when he starts trying to ask how much for what, she shoots him a dirty look and tries to turn the conversation to a more subtle level. The guy is sort of on the defensive, he thinks she's skittish and he doesn't want to scare her off. So he starts using euphamisms and leading statements, he's trying to find a way to "say it without saying it." Once she has him doing that, then she can make implications by suggesting a tip amount. Then there's lots of teasing and foreplay and when it comes to the main event she claims she doesn't do that and that she has provided the services that were negotiated.

Bottom line: do a cop check on eachother, if you both pass then you can say anything you want. If the girl acts skittish she's either genuinely inexperienced or she's trying to con you.

I wish I had learned that sooner. More often than I'd like to admit I ended up paying $100-$300 to have a girl do little more than strip or maybe offer a handjob.

Through experience, I've learned that whether its an all inclusive fee, a house fee, arrival fee, door fee, whatever the case may be, I always try to hold on to as much of my money as long as I can until I'm sure of what I'll get. For example, if I'm at an AMP in a new town I'll pass on the table shower, or if they insist on me washing up I'll insist on doing a stand-up self-shower; then I push hard to negotiate extras before the massage starts. That way, if things go south early and fast, I can at least try to get all or part of my house fee refunded.

Blah blah, rant rant. That's another advantage to this board. Its a chance to chit-chat with someone about the hobby. As I said, I'm married and mostly have kept all this to myself, I wouldn't even let any of my closest male friends know about this. That psychological seclusion seemed to make me a little more paranoid and skittish with my hobbying. Also more compulsive... I'd tell myself I'm going to quit, then I'd go overboard, etc.

It was like a big weight was lifted off my shoulders when I discovered this board and a couple of local ones. A chance to just converse about this has improved my ability to hobby wisely. In 2-3 short years I made more sudden improvement than I had gradually made in the first 15 years.

And a couple of years ago I told two very close guy friends, and we've gone hobbying together on a few occasions. My hobbying experiences have improved immensely on every level. I hardly ever have a disappointing session, I always get much more bang for my buck, I know when to cut my losses and walk away, I don't get so bitterly disappointed if a session fails for some reason, etc etc.

OK I feel better. Rant over.

[Boxcc]

RealFun, great story. If I was a betting man, I'd say that at least half of the mongers on this board started out at AMPs the same way. They just stumbled into them. I know it happened to me that way.

I also wish that this board was around when I was first getting started. It wouldn't have been so awkward in the beginning if I had had pointers from guys like us!

The only bad thing about the area that I live in is that there are several good AMPs in the Greenville/Anderson South Carolina area, but, we hardly ever talk about them on this board because the women at the AMP monitor this board for info too, and get quite upset if we talk about them. So, we are almost back to the point of not discussing what goes on at AMPs. At least we have this generic board to discuss massages in general so that people can get the info they need.

It has been my experience that it doesn't matter what city or state you are in, if you come across an AMP, they usually operate the same exact way, or pretty close anyway. The only difference usually is the price and quality!

[RealFun]

One thing that is kinda fucked up is how my wife is the one that initially drew my attention to the place. And more than that, she's the one that planted the thought in my head that it may provide more than the advertised services.

She's actually relatively naive about that sort of thing, and here I am the experienced hobbyist. I just glanced, saw "Health Spa" and all the massage services and just shrugged it off.

After her comment about not wanting to know what goes on in there, I got another good long look at it, from a distance, and it had that sort of seedy discreet ambiance that you see at places like adult book stores and other kinds of mp's, etc.

I'm not much of a sports fan and it was just sort of a fluke that I finally stumbled upon the ad in my hometown paper. On my first vistit to that place I saw a couple of girls right away in the hallway that were wearing flirty skimpy clothing and I knew immediately that there would be 'extras' on the menu.

That city is Rockford, IL which is a great spot with 6 AMPs. 3 are great, the other 3 are just OK but all offer full menus at all times.

If you're ever in Chicago looking for AMP fun, it may be worth a little extra drive to go to Rockford. The AMPs in the nearby Chicago burbs are hit or miss and notorious for having older providers. Rockford is probably just a little over an hour from the downtown area via an interstate.

[Stoner]

Haha...sounds like the Tokyo Health Spa I knew and love in Waterbury.

[Professer]

Now thats a story. Sounds like most of our first experiances

[RealFun]

since we're talking about amp experiences, here's the story of my first.

i started out hobbying in europe, where its legal. back in the states as a newbie i got burned a bit sometimes but learned through experience. it was before discussion boards like this existed, and i didn't network with any other guys because i was married. so i was totally on my own. there were no amps in my town, so i usually went to one of the 2-3 american mp's, sometimes escorts, etc. i had no idea that anything like an amp even existed.

my wife and i were on vacation out of state, in a city that was unfamiliar to either of us. we were looking for a certain sushi restaurant in a commercial area with lots of malls and strip malls, so it was overwhelming trying to spot the specific restaurant. we realized we had probably driven a little too far down the strip so i pulled into a parking lot to turn around. we were on the fringe of where the commercial area thins out, a typical location for an amp.

as i was trying to focus on navigating through the unfamiliar access roads and parking lot medians, something caught my wife's eye... her head turned and she opened her mouth to speak but all that came out was something like, "hey - ther'...(mumbles) nah nothin...(voice trails off)..."

the strip mall was to our right so i had to duck down and lean to see what she saw out of the window on her side. it was just a business with the word "tokyo" in the name, it probably caught her eye because we were looking for a sush place, but she instantly detected it wasn't a restaurant at all. i was about 30 ft from the building and i saw "tokyo health spa" in non-descript lettering that was a contrast to all the other businesses that had neon and big 3-d lettering or some gimmick to draw attention. there were no windows, just a glass door covered completely with reflective mylar. there was lettering on the door that said:

tokyo health spa
dry sauna
steam sauna
shower
massage:
swedish
deep tissue
accupressure
shiatsu
reflexology

the hours were on there too but i missed that as i was trying to drive. anyways, i didn't even give the place a second thought. i wasn't in the hobbying frame of mind, i was trying to focus on driving in a confusing situation. this all took less than two full seconds to occur: tokyo gets my wife's attention, she starts to speak but stops before the words are all the way out, i look and see the door but ignore it because its not the restaurant and my head snaps back forward as i watch where i'm driving, my eyes darting all over the maze of medians so i can get back to the boulevard... but out of the corner of my eye i can see that my wife's head is still turned towards tokyo as it gets behind us.

then she says something under her breath, as if she were just thinking out loud more than talking to me, i can barely hear her. again, this takes longer to tell than it took to happen. so, she had made the comment "hey - ther'...(mumbles) nah nothin'...(voice trails off)..." then i glance, see the door, look away, she's still focused on tokyo and mumbles to herself, "i don't even want to know what that place is all about..."

i'm really trying to pay attention to the driving and i'm only half paying attention to anything she says unless she's saying she sees the restaurant. so it takes a couple beats for the gears in my head to slowly start turning. next i find myself questioning what the hell does she mean with that kind of attitude? i turn my head all the way around to get a good look at tokyo.

from a distance i see what i now know is the typical set up for the outside of an amp. while all the other businesses in the tiny out of the way strip mall clamor and compete for attention, here's a little dark door with flat black unlit letters. "hmmm," i think to myself, " 'health spa,' hey????" i decide to make an excuse sometime during the vacation to go "run an errand" by myself and check the place out.

first i call the place on the phone and find out that they're open until 10pm. clue number one, but then 10 isn't all that late really, but it did raise my suspicions. the mamasan politely quoted all the prices and services offered, but there was nothing during the conversation to tip me off.

when i get there some older asian lady, over 60, lets me in and asks if i been there before. luckily i was thinking on my feet and said yes. she asked who i saw, i said i don't remember the name. she asked me to describe the girl, i just say, "she was asian." mamasan just stare at me like i'm going to say more. then she's staring at me like i'm stupid. then she looks suspicious and asks me to tell her more about the girl i saw. i started giving a bogus description and eventually she buys it and asks for the house fee and tells me to get undressed and the girl will be right in.

i leave my underwear on and wrap a towel around me and sit in the chair. now when the girl walked in, had she been dressed like 99% of the amp workers i've ever seen since, i would have known for sure what an amp was for. but noooo, she's wearing shorts and a t-shirt. one tiny clue was that the shorts were fairly short, but they weren't a 'sexy' style, just lounging shorts. the t-shirt was kinda baggy with something dorky on it. the other very minor clue was that she was barefoot. and i guess the other clue was that she kinda giggled to herself when she saw me. now i understand that its because she expected me to be naked on the table, not in the chair with my boxers showing under the towel. in any case, i don't think a legitimate professional massage therapist would just openly laugh at a client during an awkward moment.

her name was nana. she asks if i want a shower. i just had taken one, and didn't know about the nice t.s. that would have been in store for me. i learned at amer mp's that it can be a minor time-saver if i skip the self-shower and get on with the action. so i asked if i could pass on that and she agreed. she offered the sauna, i passed on that too. she offers to get started with the massage, i say ok. she gestures for me to get on the table.

i try to casually yet modestly get on the table, keeping the towel around my waist until i'm on my stomach, then i open it and just keep it accross my butt. she just watches all this with great amusement. i was trying to hide my embarassment and play it cool but i think it was pretty easy for her to see i was a newbie.

the next clue came when she climbed up and squatted over me, her butt on mine with her knees up in the air. as she massaged me i could feel her crotch grinding on my butt. i was pretty sure at this point that extras were on the menu. after about 20 minutes of massage that was somewhere between very decent and great she starts to slow down. i tell her that i'd like to tip her for a great job. she climbs down and i throw the towel off and walk to my pants. i get out $20 and say "thanks."

then i say something like, "i really like you, it was fun to talk to you, too. i wish i could get to know you more but i know you're working now..." she responds with something like, "thank you, you nice guy too, i like give you massage. come see me again, ok?" i'm trying to act flirty, she's responding in kind. i step closer to her as i hand her the $20 and she doesn't back away. i say, "i mean, i really wish i could have more fun here... maybe just a little more time... if i pay for more time, can you and me have more fun?" she asks, "what do you mean, 'more fun?...' "

we go back and forth like this for a while, she lets me keep getting closer, i say something like, "i feel like you're a good friend, can i give you a hug?" she allows it, and i ever so slowly start moving my hands down her body. at this point i'm still not 100% sure that i'm with a provider, and the last thing i want to do is insult a legit girl.

long story less long, she presses her body against mine, there's more mumbling about paying for more time, paying for more 'fun', how much i got, what do i want, etc. i figured it was pretty much in line with the price at an amer mp so i offered 100 to "go all the way." she got me up to $120 and left the room.

when nana returned she told me that mamasan was demanding a minimum of $20 more for the house since we were starting to go over on time for a 30 min session. i really thought it was a newbie-geek-check squeeze play and i resisted hard. then i realized the amount of time that i'd been in there, and if i had known from the beginning that a full menu was available i probably would've moved things along a little faster. that really was the last of what i brought in, and the girl had a condom in her hand so i just shrugged and coughed it up.

when she returned i offered to give her a massage, which she thoroughly enjoyed, more than most american providers ever appreciated it. i found out later that that particular amp gets very little business and that it gets mostly really old guys.

i'm no hottie but my massage must have gotten her in the mood and she really got into it. she wasn't shy about directing me on the best technique and rhythm to get her to pop 3-4 times in various positions. after a while mamasan was yelling at her from the hall, and the girl yelled back. later the girl told me that mamasan was saying that time was up, but nana argued back that it didn't matter because there were no other customers.

i came back later in the week. mamasan asked if i wanted nana or the one other girl working at the time, i asked for nana again. when nana came to the room she told me that after i left last time she had gotten into debate with the mamasan, the jist of it being that mamasan was saying whether its busy or not, you get the customers in and out on time or else they get spoiled and expect extra time on every visit. nana defended herself (and us) saying that i was on vacation and would only come there a few times and then be gone for good anyways.

again i skipped the shower and sauna (i still didn't know about the enjoyable table shower i was passing up). i tipped right away, nana went to get the supplies. i could hear nana and the mamasan having another heated debate. not quite a fight or argument but i could tell they were in disagreement. eventually i could hear resignation in both of their voices, but it sounded more like nana was ending up with the upper hand. when she came into the room she was grinning ear to ear and said, "mamasan says as long as we don't get more than one other customer waiting, you and me can have as long as we want!" it seemed to me that mamasan didn't so much agree, she probably just figured there was nothing she could do about it anyways.

we didn't really take much more time over an hour anyways, but the session was pretty awesome.

about 6 months after returning home after that vacation i noticed a tiny ad in the sports section of the local newspaper. it was another place with almost the exact same name, "tokyo oriental health spa" in a town about 75 min drive time from my house. i've since discovered that there are several great amps in that city and i've been hooked ever since.

my general hobbying experience did help me a bit on my first visit. but i do have to recognize just how much "beginner's luck" came into play on that first visit.

[Stoner]

Where are the good wh-ore houses these days!
Damn, I want a good ole-fashioned wh-ore house like my daddy had available!

Is there any of worth still standing along the east coast US?

I'm suffering such withdrawl!

[Boxcc]

BTW, Spyguy, I have only had one instance where I ran into a new girl at a AMP. She was new because the mamasan asked if she could come in a teach the girl how to massage. I said now problem. I was a regular, so the mamasan was comfortable asking me to do this. I got an extra long massage by two girls and it was great. When it came time to do the turn over and tip thing, the mamasan said that she would leave now and let us have our fun.

The girl, I say girl, but she was little older, maybe 30 or so, and looked to have just come over on the boat. She started a BBBJ that was pretty good. After a while she just climbed up on the table and was going to mount me right then without going to get a condom. I told her no way! She seemed embarrassed about it, and tried to cover by saying, I forget. She excused herself, went and got one and then we finished. I could also tell that she was new because I had to give her the money after we had finished, but she had not asked for it, and was going to let me leave without paying for it. But, I just couldn't do that to her, she was pretty good, especially for a first time with a customer!

But, I would never, ever under any circumstances have unprotected sex with one of these girls. So, if she wouldn't have gone to get a condom, I would have had to settle for a bbbj!

[Boxcc]

slickman and spyguy, very good points. i have always found that if you start talking about a 'tip' or start asking for things, that's when you start running into problems with the provider. they instantly get suspicious when you talk money or specifics.

i always leave my wallet in the car. the only things i carry into an amp are my car keys and cash. i have enough for the house fee + extra tip for excellent service in one pocket and the money for the actual 'tip' in another. i pay the house fee and go get my shower and massage. they inevitably start the massage with you lying on your stomach. i think it is best to try to relax and enjoy the massage as much as possible. if you become relaxed, so do they, they aren't as suspicious if you are appearing to enjoy the rubdown. i also like to take every opportunity to touch the provider whenever i can. like when she comes to the head of the table to rub your shoulders, i love to rub her ass a little, trying to be gentle and not [CodeWord140] her off. but, i want to establish in her mind exactly what i'm there for. when it gets time for her to ask you to turn over, it always helps if you are sporting wood already. if not, that's okay, but if you are, she knows there is going to be 'tip' of some sort or another.

if you aren't sporting wood already, let her massage you some more. inevitably, she will get close to the monster and awaken him from his slumber. at that point, the point where she is either close to touching the dick, or has even actually touched it, that is when i casually stand up, reach into my pocket and hand her the cash. i usually hand over $100, and that will do the trick. she will disappear for a minute to get the condom and wash that little pussy and come back for some fs.

notice: i never said anything about sex, or asked for sex, or offered to pay for sex, i just gave my massage therapist a tip for a great massage. she took it upon herself to give me a tip in return by fucking my eyeballs out! lol.

now, she may tell you that $100 isn't enough, but more often than not, they don't complain about 100. usually it is the younger/prettier ones that will try to extort more money at this point. the more experienced women just go about their business of pleasuring you. they know that if they give great service, there may be even more of a tip when you are through.

and, i make it a special point of giving an extra tip if the girl has really done a great job. this does two things for you, one, it will make the girl remember you more easily because you were generous and two, when you do return, since she remembers you as a good tipper, she will try even harder the next time in hopes of getting even more money out of you. either way you can't loose!

[Star Dreamer]

Wooly1,

I fully agree with Boxcc's assessment, AMPs are definitely the way to go. For getting started, here are some suggestions for you:

1. Read the reviews of the AMPs in your area and stick with one that has consistently good reviews here on the WSG. Occasionally everyone will have a disappointing session, such as when a girl is having a bad day or if her previous customer was a real jerk. Once you get more experience, you can try new or unknown AMPs as you feel comfortable doing so.

2. As the customer, you should be somewhat assertive (without being a jerk) about what you want. From what I've read on the WSG nd other web sites, use of a condom will significantly reduce the risk of STD transmission. My favorite AMP offers BBBJ which, while not totally risk free, is of relatively low risk for STD transmission for the male compared to other activities (assuming neither participant has any open sores, etc.) Some girls will only do a CBJ and some won't let you DATY. Personally, I try to avoid DATY with AMP girls, but that is my choice and preference.

3. Many AMP girls shave their pubic areas to help reduce the chance of contacting an STD. Many will also douche and lube up. Experienced girls will also try to shower themselves between customers if they can.

The girls have as much to lose as anyone so the ones that work in the reputable AMPs that aren't out to rip you off will take resonable precautions against STD. If you find one that will allow unprotected FS, look out!

[Slickman]

Wooly,

In my opinion, the chances of getting caught in a "police sting" are very slim in an AMP. Most of the time, the cops send in an undercover to see if he'll get solicited for sex. If he does, the girl gets busted. That doesn't necessarily mean the AMP gets shut down because the operators of the AMP will likely claim that all they do is collect the up front fee and they have no control over what the girls do in the rooms. Of course, too many repeat offenses and the place will be shut down.

It's not easy for undercover LE to bust these places. Most of the girls are suspicious of guys they haven't seen before. They sometimes won't offer anything unless you make the first move. That first move should be bold. Don't just rub her leg. Reach up her dress and touch her pussy.

It's also best not to discuss the "tip." There is a theory that leaving the cash on the table in plain sight solves some of the problem since if there's no discussion of sex for pay, there's no prostitution offense. This may or may not hold up in court but at least you can say that you didn't agree to pay for anything, you just left your cash on the table while you were getting the massage.

As for STDs, you can be 99+% safe by just insisting on a condom for FS or BJs. BBBJs supposedly have some risk but more to her than to you. Personally, I don't mind CBJs. Oral sex on her (DATY) has slightly higher risks but most of the Koreans I've seen seem to be very clean.

It took me about a year to work up the nerve to walk into an AMP. If you're curious, give it a shot. Just realize that the biggest danger isn't an STD or a police bust, but rather that you may become hooked on this hobby like the rest of us here.

[Boxcc]

Spyguy, excellent report on the inner sanctum! I myself have seen similar setups in most of the AMPs that I frequent. I also argree with you that the nicer you are to the girls, the nicer they will be to you in return.

Wooly1, I would always recommend using and AMP, Asian Massage Parlor. An AMP is the best way to avoid a sting. If you go to an American MP, then one of two things will happen. You will either get busted in a sting or you will get ripped off by paying way too damn much for American pussy! Either way, you are fucked! lol.

Seriously though, I will not use an American MP for those very reasons. You can never tell if the girl is involved in a sting or not until it is too late. Now, you should pick up on the big hints she will be giving like: trying to get you to talk about specific sex acts for money, or by her not letting you touch or sample the merchandise BEFORE money is exchanged! But, you cannot tell by looking at an American girl if she is a cop or not. And, if she is not a cop, she definitely will want you to pay a lot to get off and that doesn't always ensure that you get fs either. It may mean that you pay $200 to get a naked hand-job! Who the fuck wants to pay $200 for a fucking HJ. I'd rather go buy a porno movie for 40 and do it myself, at least then I can do it over and over again for the same amount of money! lol.

There are other benefits to going to an AMP, other than knowing if the girl is a cop or not. I think the whole experience at a AMP is cleaner. They will most always give you some sort of shower or bath before they make contact with you. Then, while they are giving the massage, they are examining your body very closely to see if you have any signs of an STD. If you do have signs of and STD, then you won't be getting any extras from the girl! They always require a condom too, so the risk to themselves is minimized. Since their risk is minimized by using a condom, the risk to you is even further reduced when you use a condom as well.

Personally, as far as STDs go, I think an AMP is about the safest environment to purchase sex. There is risk involved whenever you 'buy' sex. But, I think that risk is greatly reduced in the 'cleaner' environment of an AMP.

Then again, that is just my opinion and as everyone knows, opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one! lol.

[Wooly1]

Hey guys,

I have a question that I'm sure everyone here has thought about atleast once. What are the risks invovled in going to an MP. (i. e. STDs and police stings), I really want to go to an MP but am affraid of the risks. Your input would be appreciated!