Safe Sex

[Wolvenvacht]

(snip) using safe sex practices and immunosuppresant therapy may reduce the chances of this happening (snip)

What?"immunosuppressant therapy" means a therapy that suppresses your immune system. Such as when you had a kidney transplant.

Actually, the only thing that protects you against herpes is your immune system. When your immune system gets suppressed, the chances of a herpes outbreak increase.

(The WiseGeek website doesn't even know how to write "immunosuppressant" correctly)

[Wolvenvacht]

I cannot find anything suggesting that the virus is in your saliva if no signs are visible and perhaps never have been.

You cannot find that info because the virus is not in your saliva. When you have no outbreak (visible sores and such) the virus "sleeps" somewhere in your nerves.

[Wolvenvacht]

Found this interesting reading:

http://www.naturalnews.com/043563_se...chemicals.html

Not interesting at all.

Any website that doubts the usefulness of vaccines and perpetrates the hoax that vaccines can cause autism should be banned. I can only assume that the "quality" (or rather "lack of quality") of their pages in respect of other items are on the same level.

[Wolvenvacht]

I visited a couple of times FKK clubs in Germany, and every time I was positively impressed not only by the lineup, but also by the overall relaxed atmosphere. And of course I scored a couple of good experiences. However, looking at so many people around, I ask myself (and you) : what abouts STDs? I remember that only once I saw some sort of bubbles around my tool, immediately after an hour spent with a girl, but they disappeared with a hot hot shower, and never appeared again. Did some of you fellow mongers ever got any problem? I guess that girls are subject to periodic medical checks. Yet, in a very crowded evening, when each girl can have dozens of intercourses, I guess the risk of getting some troubles could be high. What do you think? Any useful experience to share?

Looks like some allergic reaction.

You did you use a condom, didn't you?

I doubt it that each girl will have dozens of intercourses every day. 5 or 6 per day per girl looks more like it, provided the club is fairly busy. Anyhow, using a condom should contain the risk to acceptable levels.

[Euroknight]

I visited a couple of times FKK clubs in Germany, and every time I was positively impressed not only by the lineup, but also by the overall relaxed atmosphere. And of course I scored a couple of good experiences. However, looking at so many people around, I ask myself (and you) : what abouts STDs? I remember that only once I saw some sort of bubbles around my tool, immediately after an hour spent with a girl, but they disappeared with a hot hot shower, and never appeared again. Did some of you fellow mongers ever got any problem? I guess that girls are subject to periodic medical checks. Yet, in a very crowded evening, when each girl can have dozens of intercourses, I guess the risk of getting some troubles could be high. What do you think? Any useful experience to share?

[AfAsia]

Found this interesting reading:

http://www.naturalnews.com/043563_se...chemicals.html

[PinkPearl]

Anyone one else with information, please contribute to this thread. Mrclen

One of the world's leading STI experts states:

"remember that being HSV-2 positive, even without symtpoms, at least doubles a person's risk of acquiring HIV if sexually exposed to it. Unless you are 100 percent confident in your mutual monogamy and the permanency of the relationship, I recommend you take reasonable steps to avoid HSV-2. Your partner could take valacyclovir (Valtrex) , for example."

H. Hunter Handsfield, M. D.

Nov 23, 2006.

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/STDs/he...on/show/248614

Taking such meds would reduce the risk of you infecting others as well as shorten the severity & duration of any outbreaks. OTOH if you are seeing prostitutes exclusively, the vast majority of them are already infected & safe sex measures can be practiced to reduce the risk of infecting those who are clean.

Perhaps it is also worth mentioning reports of people who claim to have been sexually inactive for years, and unaware of being infected with genital herpes for all those years, suddenly having their first outbreak:

http://www.onhealth.com/genital_herp...mments-378.htm

http://consults.blogs.nytimes.com/20...r-herpes/?_r=0

[MrClen]

Type 2 is the worst of the two. Even though one infected with Herpes 2 may have never had an outbreak, they can still infect others such as their sexual partners or infect their own eye which could lead to blindness. Such a one infected with Herpes is infected for life & certain triggers may lead to them having visible outbreaks.

"anyone who engages in sexual activity with a partner who is already carrying this virus may become infected whether his or her partner is symptomatic or not, using safe sex practices and immunosuppresant therapy may reduce the chances of this happening."

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-herpes-type-2.htm

Reading much more than I ever wanted to know about this subject I come up with the following information:

It seems that that the great majority (over 50%) of sex workers (WG's) , have one if not both types of Herpes.

It is far more common than any other type of STD as a large percentage of the people in the world have one type or the other.

If the person already has Type 1, it is more difficult for them to catch Type 2.

Male to female transmission is easier than female to male.

Condoms only provide partial protection, as any skin to skin or fluid contact can pass it.

Once you have it, it is forever! (But there are some supposed cures out there? Anyone with info on this, please weigh in).

Most of the people who have it don't know and have few, if any signs. The only way to tell is the breakout of sores around the mouth, lips (usually type 1) , or genital area (usually type 2).

One type of test is the iGG test that differentiates the two types of Herpes. Another is the Western Blot test that may be more accurate.

It can be most easily passed on when sores are present, but can still be passed on at a reduced rate, even when they are not.

(As most people don't know they have it, it might seem that everyone should have it.) While it is not quite a non issue, it borders on it.

There are a couple medications that may eliminate (?) , reduce or shorten the outbreaks of sores. But very little info on the effect of transmission with these drugs.

(Question begs-if you have had no visible signs ever, what is the transmission rate and will the drugs do anything?)

The longer you have the Herpes Virus in your system, the more antibodies build up and the frequency and severity of the outbreaks of sores decreases. (Does it ever go to zero?)

The transmission rates of the various types of sexual activities is not very well documented. IE: Genital to Genital, Oral Male to Female Genital, Female Oral to Male Genital, DFK, Etc, Etc.

(And then of course the question of visible signs or not visible, or never had signs, and on and on comes into play).

I cannot find anything suggesting that the virus is in your saliva if no signs are visible and perhaps never have been.

Last thing: It seems some vaccines are being developed for prevention and cure but I have no real information on these other than some hints gleaned for the web. Anybody has information, weigh in please. Yes there is one for young women and cancer of a certain type related to Herpes but that doesn't do anything for the rest of the population.

Anyone one else with information, please contribute to this thread. Mrclen

[PinkPearl]

OK: Just got my test results back. All clear except for Herpes Type 2. Very low numbers but still enough to be positive. I guess nothing to worry about as I have never had a breakout or any symptoms. Figure I will retest in a few weeks just to be sure. It seems with a low number it could be a false positive. My last DATY encounter was about three weeks ago. It seems that a majority of the population has either type 1 or 2 or both. I do wonder how many of the mongers who practice DATY have the Type 2 and don't know it? Mrclen

Type 2 is the worst of the two. Even though one infected with Herpes 2 may have never had an outbreak, they can still infect others such as their sexual partners or infect their own eye which could lead to blindness. Such a one infected with Herpes is infected for life & certain triggers may lead to them having visible outbreaks.

"anyone who engages in sexual activity with a partner who is already carrying this virus may become infected whether his or her partner is symptomatic or not, using safe sex practices and immunosuppresant therapy may reduce the chances of this happening."

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-herpes-type-2.htm

[MrClen]

Agree with your bottom line completely. But! There is some degree of risk in everything we do, and the best we can do is minimize that risk. IE: Cross the street with the traffic light, not against it, and use the crosswalk, etc. We still play the lottery in the hopes of winning, but we don't play the punting game in the hopes of losing. I have seen many (google and other) reports on the stats of contracting STD's, but very little on certain practices and minimizing the risks.

For example, does it say that if your partner has syphilis and SHE performs oral on you that your chances of getting it are 100% or. 0000001, and what factors would contribute to both percentages? I read in this and other forums that many, if not most, of the posters want DATY, BBBJ, AR, etc, as part of their experience. And I would guess that many of these posters have had 100's if not 1000's of WG's and others. Are they all infected-I think not! I know that I may be beating this subject up, but often, some good advice pops to the surface-example the teeth brushing not recommended before. Not necessarily something something I would have thought of, but I would bet, that if followed, there could be somewhere a prevented case of STD being transmitted, and that is all we need, JUST ONE! Last comment: I get myself tested for all STD's at least yearly (just went in yesterday) , and if I have been more active, every 6 months! It is cheap insurance-get it done! Mrclen

OK: Just got my test results back. All clear except for Herpes Type 2. Very low numbers but still enough to be positive. I guess nothing to worry about as I have never had a breakout or any symptoms. Figure I will retest in a few weeks just to be sure. It seems with a low number it could be a false positive. My last DATY encounter was about three weeks ago. It seems that a majority of the population has either type 1 or 2 or both. I do wonder how many of the mongers who practice DATY have the Type 2 and don't know it? Mrclen

[MrClen]

Interesting postings!

I have just done a Google Scholar search for the latest medical research on transmissibility of sexually transmitted diseases (or infections). It's probably best to give a direct quote from Flagg et al. Who hark from Emory University:

"The clearest evidence of risk was found for syphilis (all oral sex practices) , chlamydia (insertive and receptive fellatio; receptive anilingus) , gonorrhoea (insertive and receptive fellatio) , herpes (insertive fellatio; receptive cunnilingus) , and HIV (receptive fellatio). For example, for pharyngeal gonorrhoea 4 of 4 studies reported association with receptive fellatio; 1 of 1 study found none for insertive anilingus. Other STI and oral sex associations were less well-studied, or have not been documented. No reports allow direct per-contact estimates, but some facilitate comparisons with non-oral types of sexual contact. A number of studies did not specify whether ejaculation or use of barrier protection was assessed."

Bottom line: you can get STDs (or STIs) via oral sex and some are serious. However, accurate information on Herpes is scant.

Agree with your bottom line completely. But! There is some degree of risk in everything we do, and the best we can do is minimize that risk. IE: Cross the street with the traffic light, not against it, and use the crosswalk, etc. We still play the lottery in the hopes of winning, but we don't play the punting game in the hopes of losing. I have seen many (google and other) reports on the stats of contracting STD's, but very little on certain practices and minimizing the risks.

For example, does it say that if your partner has syphilis and SHE performs oral on you that your chances of getting it are 100% or. 0000001, and what factors would contribute to both percentages? I read in this and other forums that many, if not most, of the posters want DATY, BBBJ, AR, etc, as part of their experience. And I would guess that many of these posters have had 100's if not 1000's of WG's and others. Are they all infected-I think not! I know that I may be beating this subject up, but often, some good advice pops to the surface-example the teeth brushing not recommended before. Not necessarily something something I would have thought of, but I would bet, that if followed, there could be somewhere a prevented case of STD being transmitted, and that is all we need, JUST ONE! Last comment: I get myself tested for all STD's at least yearly (just went in yesterday) , and if I have been more active, every 6 months! It is cheap insurance-get it done! Mrclen

[Wabbittt]

Thanks for weighing in! The information about the brushing seems right on. Anyone who has ever had a slight amount of gum bleeding after brushing can understand exactly what you are saying and it makes perfect sense! Enough of the doom and gloom we get from a lot of what we read, let's get some real practical information!

A little paranoid comment and POV from me! We all know, or should know, that most of the STD's are curable and require doctor visits, pills, injections, whatever. This must be a huge money maker for the drug companies, doctors, etc. But of course it is something no one wants to talk about too much as we would be seen as disreputable slime (don't know any other way to put it) , visiting all these diseased WG's without regard to the consequences. If they can come up with vaccines for, chicken pox, shingles, flu, polio, cervical cancer, and god knows how many more mainstream ills, why can't they manage to come up with prevention's for some of the STD's? Just a question and food for thought! Mrclen

Interesting postings!

I have just done a Google Scholar search for the latest medical research on transmissibility of sexually transmitted diseases (or infections). It's probably best to give a direct quote from Flagg et al. Who hark from Emory University:

"The clearest evidence of risk was found for syphilis (all oral sex practices) , chlamydia (insertive and receptive fellatio; receptive anilingus) , gonorrhoea (insertive and receptive fellatio) , herpes (insertive fellatio; receptive cunnilingus) , and HIV (receptive fellatio). For example, for pharyngeal gonorrhoea 4 of 4 studies reported association with receptive fellatio; 1 of 1 study found none for insertive anilingus. Other STI and oral sex associations were less well-studied, or have not been documented. No reports allow direct per-contact estimates, but some facilitate comparisons with non-oral types of sexual contact. A number of studies did not specify whether ejaculation or use of barrier protection was assessed."

Bottom line: you can get STDs (or STIs) via oral sex and some are serious. However, accurate information on Herpes is scant.

[Wolvenvacht]

If they can come up with vaccines for, chicken pox, shingles, flu, polio, cervical cancer, and god knows how many more mainstream ills, why can't they manage to come up with prevention's for some of the STD's? Just a question and food for thought! Mrclen

It is just a matter of economics. For most of the STDs there is either a vaccine (Hepatitis, cervical cancer) or a perfectly OK treatment (most other STDs that react well to antibiotics) or the STDs are not bad enough to really bother (cold sores). Why would big pharma spend many millions in finding a "cure" that will wipe out part of their sales?

[MrClen]

Brushing your teeth before DFK or DATY is actually not a good idea since brushing is most likely to cause small wounds in your gums. Mouthwash will not help against virus particles and will be of little help against bacteria. I don't think the anti-bacterial effect of mouthwash will kill all bacteria, but it will be better than nothing.

Thanks for weighing in! The information about the brushing seems right on. Anyone who has ever had a slight amount of gum bleeding after brushing can understand exactly what you are saying and it makes perfect sense! Enough of the doom and gloom we get from a lot of what we read, let's get some real practical information!

A little paranoid comment and POV from me! We all know, or should know, that most of the STD's are curable and require doctor visits, pills, injections, whatever. This must be a huge money maker for the drug companies, doctors, etc. But of course it is something no one wants to talk about too much as we would be seen as disreputable slime (don't know any other way to put it) , visiting all these diseased WG's without regard to the consequences. If they can come up with vaccines for, chicken pox, shingles, flu, polio, cervical cancer, and god knows how many more mainstream ills, why can't they manage to come up with prevention's for some of the STD's? Just a question and food for thought! Mrclen

[Wolvenvacht]

I'm not suggesting it's a panacea, but wonder what the prophylactic benefits might be of both monger and girl using a good antiseptic mouthwash before (and after?) DFK, BBBJ, DATY.

At first glance I would think that Listerene might be the best bet, as it now includes the anti-bacterial agent Thymol in addition to Eucalyptus, Menthol and Methyl Silicate and alcohol. But I read somewhere (this Forum?) that traditional Listerene actually makes things worse because the alcohol irritates and opens up any existing mouth sores. Not sure if that's true or not.

Colgate Total Advanced on the other hand is alcohol free but contains 0. 075% Cetylpyridinium chloride (anti-bacterial). I think the rest of it is basically mild soap. This shouldn't irritate sores, but appears to only offer protection against bacteria. Not that I'm saying Listerene has anti-viral properties, but might it? Colgate also makes something called Colgate Peroxyl which contains Hydrogen Peroxide and they recommend as an anti-septic mouthwash and for treating cold sores. It comes in an alcohol free version and one that is 5. 8% alcohol.

Anyone have any info?

Happy Mongering!

Brushing your teeth before DFK or DATY is actually not a good idea since brushing is most likely to cause small wounds in your gums. Mouthwash will not help against virus particles and will be of little help against bacteria. I don't think the anti-bacterial effect of mouthwash will kill all bacteria, but it will be better than nothing.