Safe Sex

[Joe Zop]

Oh, I get it -- you're in favor of sensible behavior when it comes to both sex and health. Must be that rubber fetish thing Considering the low number of people who even get annual health check-ups, I'd say that's an uphill climb. Grown adults are, I think, generally afraid that doctors will tell them that they have to change their behavior or, worse, will deliver some kind of bad news that will require change or follow-up, so the tendency is to use the ignorance-is-bliss approach. And that's regardless of whether the ailment has to do with sexually transmitted diseases. I'm not one to talk in this regard by any stretch, either, though I do get tested and a physical on a reasonably regular basis.

But I agree with you -- I don't at all understand the idea of going to a doctor and getting screened for HIV without doing the whole battery of tests. AIDS rings a personal bell for me because I've had people I know die from it, and do so terribly, but there aren't exactly any of the various nasties I'm in a hurry to get. I'm lucky enough to have been fairly sexually active for many years in a variety of locales and situations without ever catching a thing, and I chalk that up to being reasonably fastidious about using a safe-sex approach (and always doing so for penetrative sex.)

[Rubber Nursey]

Joe,

Like you said, most STDs are curable or manageable as long as they're detected before they do serious damage. What I'm getting at is that some people NEVER have a test unless they have an accident, and then they often just run out and request an HIV test and nothing else. Any doctor worth their salt would hopefully suggest a full screening as well as the blood test, but that won't necessarily happen. If you NEVER have a test, the chances of the doctor diagnosing the illness before your wife is infertile from PID or before the syphilis insanity sets in, is slim to none.

Personally I am terrified of HIV...just like everyone else is. But I was always much more afraid of catching the so-called "minor" STDs, because I knew the risk of exposure was so much greater.

I guess what bothers me most is the lack of education that most people have about STDs. I mean, really.... illnesses like HIV and others can KILL you! Would you drive a car without learning where the brake is? Would you jump out of a plane without knowing how to pull the ripcord? I am honestly surprised that so many people all over the world are having sex with NO idea about STDs. How can you possibly take proper precautions against disease if you don't understand the modes of transmission?

I am also surprised that grown adults are often too embarrassed to go to a doctor for STD screening. We are adults, and doctors are professionals. Walking into a surgery and dropping your pants is hardly emotionally devastating. I've heard heaps of my friends say "But what if they find something? I'd be so humiliated"...in my opinion that means they know that there is a chance that they MAY have something, so they definitely SHOULD be going to a doctor!

[Joe Zop]

For what it's worth, RN, I think the scary part about HIV is that you're pretty well toast if it develops into AIDS, and even the best treatment at this point is a) expensive and b) nothing guaranteed. By contrast, most of the other STDs are curable as long as they're detected before they do serious damage (takes a long time to do the insanity thing with syphillis) or at least manageable. I think people tend to see most STDs as things that for the most part you can cure or survive and HIV/AIDS as something that you've got to continuously deal with until such point that it kills you. We've got lots of examples of people who have lived long productive lives with the other STDs, but because it's still early in the game we don't have the same examples from AIDS.

Of course you're dead on correct that all these other things are actually statistically far greater cause for worry, but to some extent. rightly or wrongly, people tend to approach STDs as something that can happen if you pack the wrong clothes on a trip, and HIV/AIDS as what can happen if you don't pack your parachute carefully.

[Rubber Nursey]

zel66,
Your post really made me smile. Your choice to avoid AMPs until you are sure of your STI status is exactly the sort of responsible and compassionate attitude that I was trying to encourage with my last post. Thank you for showing me that I was wrong about some men I also hope you didn't think I was specifically targetting you with my little rant about STI screening...there have been a long line of similar queries made both here and in the old forum, and I just thought it was time to make a general statement. Good luck with your tests.

Good luck to you too gonzo56...I'm sure you will be fine. Just wondering though...did you JUST go for HIV testing, or did you get the "works" done?

The thing is guys, there is way too much emphasis being put on HIV in these discussions. By comparison, HIV is not really a risk factor that should be getting quite this much attention. What about life long diseases like herpes or genital warts (which can be responsible for cervical cancer in your female partners)? What about going insane and then dying from syphillis? What about chlamydia, which can infect your wife or girlfriend but cause no symptoms, until she is put in hospital with PID and told she is infertile? Or worse, the untreated infection or the ectopic pregnancy that could occur because of the internal scarring KILLS her! If HIV was REALLY the "epidemic" that many of you are treating it like, every second sexually active person on earth would be infected. The fact is, it is NOT that easy to catch...the other diseases ARE! Yes, you should always be aware of HIV, but it should NOT be the only reason that you get tested or the only reason that you use condoms.

PS...anExpat,
Many diseases can enter a man's penis through the urethra...and HIV is one of them. However, HIV usually needs an "entry point" such as a cut or sore to actually enter your system. If you have some other infection like an STI, thrush or a bladder infection that has caused irritation to the skin just inside the penis, there could be cuts or tiny abrasions that could become an entry point. Friction during long, vigourous sex sessions, especially without lube, can cause these abrasions too.

[gonzo56]

i went and got hiv tested today and had a nice chat with the nurse. she asked me some questions (are my sex partners males or females etc). i have visited some amp's before and had an experience where one of the condoms broke. and i was scared shitless. that is why i went to get tested. the nurse told me that she does not expect me to test negative and went on to say that it is harder for a male to get hiv from a woman. living in a smaller city is also a good thing as hiv and aids are quite rare here. however she did say she had a few cases where guys went down to mexico and had sex with prostitutes then came back and tested positive. well, i'll find out in two weeks what my results where. hopefully negative. i'm going to be crossing my fingers.

[AnExpat]

Brett-

"The virus will not come into your body unless you have open wounds that came into contact with her body fluids."

I've heard that the HIV virus could enter the body through the penis opening (urethra), I myself aren't sure about this, u seem to have some knowledge on this subject; what's your opinion??

[zel66]

RN- I have been tested before and come out negative. So personally, I know that i am not putting these girls at risk. That is why i will not go back to one of these AMP's until i have been tested again and i know i have no std's.

[Joe Zop]

Very good point, RN -- risk is risk, and being active is being active, no matter who's involved. If you're sexually active with multiple partners, then you should be tested not only for your own protection but for your partners'. And your point about the health of the sex worker is absolutely important -- being the one who is penetrated puts you at far higher risk for HIV, and while vaginal sex is safer than anal, it's still much more risky for the woman than man.

And just to clarify something I wrote earlier -- lube definitely *is* a good idea, not only for comfort but for condom safety, but it has to be the right kind -- water based and not oil based. That means KY or Astroglide or something similar, and not baby oil or cooking oil or vaseline, all of which I've seen people at AMPs use...

[Rubber Nursey]

zel66,

I know how nervous you must be. I found myself on the receiving end of a broken condom a couple of times in my working life...a MUCH scarier position to be in mind you! ...and just thought I'd let you know that I never caught a thing. You should really have a full STD screen between three and ten days after a condom breakage, to pick up any of the "minor" nasties that you may have been exposed to. Then you need an HIV test at three months, and again at six months. Try not to panic too much though...as has been said by these guys already, the chances of a man catching HIV from a woman, especially one that insists she uses condoms all the time, are pretty darn slim.

sg128,

Tit-fucking is pretty much completely risk free (unless perhaps scabies is present) for a man. I just wanted to add though, that it is NOT necessarily risk free for your female partner. If you accidentally cum in her mouth or her eyes (ESPECIALLY her eyes), she is at risk of catching nasties from YOU, including HIV.

As for the questions about AMPs...obviously I do not know about the US parlours in particular, but I can say that in most developed countries your chances of catching HIV or other diseases in a brothel type environment are relatively low. Many parlours demand medical certificates from their workers (to cover the parlour owners ass in the case of a complaint), they will not condone drug users (drugs draw police attention), and they often try to ensure that the girls are clean, friendly and professional to encourage return business (more money in their greedy hands). Please remember that there is often an extremely vast difference between street workers and other sex workers. That goes for IV drug use in particular. Something I read about Oz sex workers recently said that an estimated 69% of street workers use injected drugs, and only around 7% of other sex workers do. (The nightclub/entertainment industry was estimated at around 22%...think more carefully before going home with a barmaid! LOL). Poverty, homelessness, drug dependency, violence and low self esteem are all factors that contribute to poor health....things that street workers are much more likely to suffer from than parlour workers.

And guys....I have heard too many men here saying "The condom broke. Maybe I should have a test now". As sexually active adults having sex with multiple partners, you should be having REGULAR testing! Don't wait for a condom scare to force you to take responsibility. How about thinking of the risk that YOU present to the HOOKERS for a change. It's pretty darn selfish to expect girls to have constant screening to protect YOUR health, when you guys show so little concern about the sex workers health. A condom breakage may cause YOU a little embarassment and inconvenience when you go and get antibiotics, but it could cost a sex worker one or two months INCOME while she is treated. Or it could end her "career" for good. Do you have any idea how terrified WE are when the condom breaks???

Not trying to be nasty...just making a point

[zel66]

Joe-You are right about the girl using some sort of lube before having sex. I guess that is what helped contribute to the breaking of the condom then. I should mention that i had been to that particular AMP on several occasions before this and every time the girls used a condom for both oral and vaginal sex. So that is a good sign.

Once again, thanks for the feedback guys. I appreciate it

hi guys......i think your more likely to get a cold than anything else if your titty fucking, back injury comes to mind as well.
zel66,,,forget about getting hiv,,,your odds are 1 in millions,,,,,,,,if you fuck a woman who has aids every day for several years without condoms, odds are still that you will not get the virus. it is not easy to spread the virus to men,(exept through anal sex) it has to have an opening in your skin. the virus will not come into your body unless you have open wounds that came into contact with her body fluids.

there are still a dozen or more nasty little things that you can get , most will show up in a few days if you did, (burning feeling when you [CodeWord134] etc)but clamidia might not be obvious and herpes may not give symptoms, if you got crabs,,you would start to feel them in a week or two,,...aids is not a worry, but you might want to get tested for the other things to feel safe.

[Joe Zop]

zel66 -- let's all face it, going with prostitutes is raising your risk factors in that you're going to be with women who have multiple partners, so the safest thing is either onanism or monogamy. That said, certainly your handjob/covered bj approach would be safest. For what it's worth, there are plenty of us who've gone through your exact experience, myself included, with no ill effects.

My take on it is this -- life isn't safe, and life without sex isn't life. As long as there's a condom involved, you're really pretty protected, even given the possibility of breakage or slippage. The mistake I've seen at lots of AMPs, which surprises me at this point in the game, is the use of baby oil or some such lube with condoms, which breaks latex down and can lead to breakage. I'd be curious to know if that's the case in your scenario.

sg128 -- perhaps you can get a rash or a complaint if you're an extravagant shooter but there aren't any STDs to be worried about with tit-fucking. And massage girls who actually have enough assets to make it possible certainly often allow for the possibility.

[Prokofiev]

SG,
In most AMPs I know, there is not enough titty to get the job done. Remember, these are asian women. Good Luck

[sg128]

hey guys. this may seem like a stupid question. but is it possible to catch anything from titty-fucking a girl. an infection or something? just curious. do any of these massage parlor girls allow you to do this?

[zel66]

Joe and Brett
Thanks for the replies. I sure hope you guys are right. i have been worried sick about it ever since. I am going to take a few months off and i am going to go get tested when the time is right. Just to make sure.
If i do test negative, then from then on i think i will stick to handjobs and covered bj's. I don't want to go through this stress again. =)