General Info

[Ortos]

Biggest changes will be around club owners (rules, regulations, permissions) and the girls who will have to get registered. BBBJ is just one aspect. And the German FKK landscape will not disappear, there may be changes, we will see in which way.

HB.

Speaking of changes that may or may not occur, and speculations therein: Can anybody see a future scenario whereby the FKK club line-ups will become more diverse in terms of nationalities? Will the seemingly monolithic Romanian girl line-ups loosen up a bit and once again include more Russian, Ukrainian, etc girls, you know the way things used to be?

I ask because I live in an EU country where the sex scene is populated mainly by WGs from Ukraine and Moldova and Russia. These girls, who used to require work permits or specialized visas for a specific work venue, now just show up on one / two / three month "tourist visas" and when that visa ends they leave and wait 3 months and come over again. But this system works because prostitution is illegal. Obviously in a country like Germany, where prostitution IS legal, but carefully regulated, non-EU girls cannot easily work at clubs on tourist visas. But is there anything in the text of the new bill that talks of changes that would allow non-EU girls a bit more flexibility to work in German FKKs? Or will it be even more difficult after any potential new law passes?

[Hessen Bub]

If you can't read and understand German, please stop speculating about the new "law" and it's effects, penalties, blackmail etc. It's been about 15 months from now until the situation will change. Biggest changes will be around club owners (rules, regulations, permissions) and the girls who will have to get registered. BBBJ is just one aspect. And the German FKK landscape will not disappear, there may be changes, we will see in which way.

HB.

[SwingerLover]

I am for this new law to try to protect FKK girls, from AO sex, diseases, even I will miss BBBJ with the very few skillful to suck.

So you are for 'protecting' people from having sex the natural way. I think most girls need more protection from their own cigarette smoke!

And what diseases? The Bavarians have a "condom-duty" for over 14 years now, Bavaria still ranks in the middle field of Bundesland-statistics regarding STDs.

This planned "law", especially the condom-duty, is only intended to create a permanent initial suspicion, so that BureauKrauts will have an excuse to run amok on the girls, clubs and organizers. Anybody who is not opposed to this new "law" is either not thinking clearly, doesn't oversee the implications invloved, wants to sell condoms or is a BureauKraut waiting for an excuse to attack amd rip people off.

That's not big money of course, problem is she gets a criminal record of sorts. It would be interesting to know how much the johns got fined. In Germany you get fined according to how much you earn.

Wrong. You don't get a criminal record for a misdemeanor, no matter how high the penalty is. Getting fined based on how much you earn happens only in criminal matters, not with misdemeanors. There's a difference between a criminal fine (= Strafe = punishment) and an administrative fine (= Bußgeld). Since both translate into English as 'fine', the difference is a bit difficult to communicate.

How the hell did we get all worked up here? For a moment, I thought somebody brought up that it was settled to take course. But, no. The two articles doesn't say the bill was passed at all, but a draft was written and approved. And all this info was regarding a draft (or proposed bill).

Gtranslate:

"If the law takes all parliamentary hurdles, it shall enter into force in July 2017".

"The federal cabinet on Wednesday approved a draft by which the coalition parties had conducted 2014 clashes since the beginning. ".

So just an approved draft of law.

Correct assessment and translation. I don't know either what all the fuzz is about right now. It's going on like that since August 2014 by now, some clubs already stopped offering AO over a year ago, despite that there's no law up to this current day. Some of them have re-started doing AO again months ago.

When (and if) the "law" is published in the Bundesgesetzblatt, then you can start worrying.

You refer to criminal fines, but this draft law installs "only"an Ordnungswidrichkeit which is not a criminal sanction but rather an administrative fine and it is a civil servant from the administration (not a judge from the courts) that will impose the fine.

So yes, some petty civil servant could fine you the full 50 000 euro even if you are poor as a beggar, just out of spite that his old lady never sucks his dick.

Not quite. There will definitely be some kind of schedule of fines (= Bußgeldkatalog) which will state the amount of the fine for each 'offence'. It is 100 % certainly absolutely impossible that a girl or a customer will get fined with a four- or five-figure amount.

Thanks for pointing out the difference between a criminal sanction and an administrative fine. This can't be repeated often enough, so that people finally start to learn that there's a difference between a 'Gesetz' (= law) and a 'Verordnung' (= decree, edict, by-law, regulation, legal ordinance) and that there are two different legal texts involved: The Strafgesetzbuch (= penal or criminal code) for criminal offences and the "Ordnungswidrigkeitengesetz" (= Administrative Offences Act or Regulatory Offences Act) for misdemeanors.

[Exodus8]

Those pro new prostitution law should focus their energy to stop importing rapefugees to Germany. The latest is woman-only train carriages due to sex attacks.

[PussyLiccker]

Anybody read the approved draft, does it specify how the value of a fine are imposed? If so, details? Also, does the approved draft still have the same info regarding what sexual actions should be used with condom or get fined? Is it more specific as to what sexual actions?

[Wolvenvacht]

In Germany you get fined according to how much you earn. If you get a one-month suspended and you earn 1000 euros a month, that's what you get fined. If you earn 15000 you get fined 15000 thousand. That maybe one of the reasons the law says "up to 50 thousand". To get fined 50000 you would have to be a very high earner because I don't see how a blow-job can attract a sentence of more than a couple of months (suspended).

You refer to criminal fines, but this draft law installs "only"an Ordnungswidrichkeit which is not a criminal sanction but rather an administrative fine and it is a civil servant from the administration (not a judge from the courts) that will impose the fine.

So yes, some petty civil servant could fine you the full 50 000 euro even if you are poor as a beggar, just out of spite that his old lady never sucks his dick.

[PussyLiccker]

I agree. Thanks, Bub, for acting as the voice of sanity around here.

As I already wrote in the FKK Lounge and Chat area:

The former "Referentenentwurf" has now grown up and become an actual draft law, which will now have to be read and discussed in the Bundestag in 1st, 2nd and 3rd reading, then it will have to get passed by the Bundestag, then the Bundesrat will have to discuss it and agree with it and pass it too, then the governementBitches will have to wait for 21 days if the Allies (as in allied occupational forces) don't object, then the GAUCKler (That's who gets to play president at this moment.) has to sign it and then it has to be published in the Bundesgesetzblatt (in Bonn) in order to become a "law". That's how things work in this company named BRD (=FRG) if a "law" gets passed.

And if it gets passed the way it's layed out in this current draft law, it will be invalid for numerous reasons. (Which I will not lay out here; no use giving Charlie a chance to correct his mistakes. Provided that they would be allowed to do it.).

Here's the text of the draft law: http://www.bmfsfj.de/RedaktionBMFSFJ...e,rwb=true.pdf.

How the hell did we get all worked up here? For a moment, I thought somebody brought up that it was settled to take course. But, no. The two articles doesn't say the bill was passed at all, but a draft was written and approved. And all this info was regarding a draft (or proposed bill).

Gtranslate:

"If the law takes all parliamentary hurdles, it shall enter into force in July 2017".

"The federal cabinet on Wednesday approved a draft by which the coalition parties had conducted 2014 clashes since the beginning. ".

So just an approved draft of law.

[Pistons]

And you'd be surpriced how much talent in startups liberal countries like thailand and singapore attracts because of it. It is even used as an argument over there to keep mongering legal. Based on science is all I heard everywhere. Even from professors.

Using usa as an example is just off the bat. But if you really have to, then look at how liberal san fransisco (gay capitol of the us) is compared to say atlanta or detroit.

[Pokrjokr3]

Hello,

I'm planning a quick trip from Amsterdam to Cologne, Frankfurt and Stuttgart region in the second week of April. At first I wanted to go to Antwerp before the Cologne, but due to high tension and probably a lot of new security measures in that area will probably pass.

I am into girls with really big silicone tits, so I would ask you for recommendation for best FKK in that areas that have a lot of girls with big silicone tits.

I will probably start in Cologne on Friday or Saturday for one day, and then go to Frankfurt for two days and than probably one day in Stuttgart.

If you could also recommend me which clubs would be best for which days and which hours to meet the girls I desire.

I've read a lot of posts on this forum and have read that Palace would be a good selection for girls with big silicone tits, but I've also read a lot of bad reviews about Palace and their sharks, so I'm not sure if should I go.

I will be traveling with trains, buses or public transport, but if I will see that it is better to rent a car for example in Cologne I will rent it. Still thinking about this.

I also have a question regarding the overnight sleeping in KFFs. So far I noticed that only FKK World has overnight accommodation offer on their webpage although I've read that a lot of other FKK also provide that. Which FKKs also provide that?

On the page of FKK World they say that the overnight accommodation is 100 eur. Does anybody know if this price also includes the FKK entrance ticket for that day.

Thank you all for your suggestions and help!

Jokr

[Sirioja]

If only you could be right my friend. Countries like Thailand would be the champions of innovation and countries such as the US would become third-world countries! It's not just the "feminists" you see, it's the feminoids and, of course, the men, who won't stand up for their rights.

Rights of men, us, about prostitution of girls living in poor countries? Children prostitution in Thailand? I am for this new law to try to protect FKK girls, from AO sex, diseases, even I will miss BBBJ with the very few skillful to suck.

It s only the oldest women job.

[XXL]

New markets will spring up, there are just too much money involved in global sex trade for the feminists to win. Research says that the more liberal a country is in regards to sex and free speech, the higher the innovation. So even if this won't affect german tax money directly, it will eventually affect it indirectly as startups of young males, and outsourced offices will move elsewhere.

If only you could be right my friend. Countries like Thailand would be the champions of innovation and countries such as the US would become third-world countries! It's not just the "feminists" you see, it's the feminoids and, of course, the men, who won't stand up for their rights. And offices wouldn't move elsewhere because paid sex gets suppressed, quite the reverse, what companies want is married men who work like slaves for their "family", not mongers like us.

Regarding the 50 thousand euro fine for the john and zero fine for the woman, there's the same asymmetry about the failure of a girl to be registered. 200 euro fine for the girl and up to 50k for the "boss" or the "escort service" (here if you can read German: http://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/deutschland/prostituiertenschutzgesetz-kondompflicht-fuer-freier/12067752.html).

I know an FKK girl who was fined in Munich for BBBJ (she wasn't working at an FKK when she got fined). She got a 200 or 400 euro fine, can't remember which. That's not big money of course, problem is she gets a criminal record of sorts. It would be interesting to know how much the johns got fined. In Germany you get fined according to how much you earn. If you get a one-month suspended and you earn 1000 euros a month, that's what you get fined. If you earn 15000 you get fined 15000 thousand. That maybe one of the reasons the law says "up to 50 thousand". To get fined 50000 you would have to be a very high earner because I don't see how a blow-job can attract a sentence of more than a couple of months (suspended).

[SwingerLover]

Relax. Take it easy. Let's see what happens.

I agree. Thanks, Bub, for acting as the voice of sanity around here.

As I already wrote in the FKK Lounge and Chat area:

The former "Referentenentwurf" has now grown up and become an actual draft law, which will now have to be read and discussed in the Bundestag in 1st, 2nd and 3rd reading, then it will have to get passed by the Bundestag, then the Bundesrat will have to discuss it and agree with it and pass it too, then the governementBitches will have to wait for 21 days if the Allies (as in allied occupational forces) don't object, then the GAUCKler (That's who gets to play president at this moment.) has to sign it and then it has to be published in the Bundesgesetzblatt (in Bonn) in order to become a "law". That's how things work in this company named BRD (=FRG) if a "law" gets passed.

And if it gets passed the way it's layed out in this current draft law, it will be invalid for numerous reasons. (Which I will not lay out here; no use giving Charlie a chance to correct his mistakes. Provided that they would be allowed to do it.).

Here's the text of the draft law: http://www.bmfsfj.de/RedaktionBMFSFJ...e,rwb=true.pdf.

[Member #4399]

Google translation of the last part sucks. What is the complete meaning of the last paragraph? It says something about declaring girls and 1 k max fine, and then goes on to talk about brothels with suiters with 50 k fine.

Curious if Bavaria's circumstances had similar elements as far as fines (if so, to what level? And no enforcement? Any ideas?

I came to this translation, with some help of the old fashioned dictionary.

The women can be fined a maximum of 1000 euros upon any breach of their compulsory registration. The brothels (on their turn) might face penalties of up to 50,000 euros, when they breach the conditions imposed upon them by law.

A fine of 50.000 eur can, according to specifications of the Minister, be imposed upon the suitors that do not comply to the obligation to wear a condom.

Well, have fun until 1-7-2017. Then go somewhere else.

[PussyLiccker]

They don't. At least not in the FKK.

http://mobil.n-tv.de/politik/Jetzt-kommt-die-Kondompflicht-article16914081.html

Last sentence states that BBBJ can be fined with up to 50k.

HB.

Google translation of the last part sucks. What is the complete meaning of the last paragraph? It says something about declaring girls and 1 k max fine, and then goes on to talk about brothels with suiters with 50 k fine.

Curious if Bavaria's circumstances had similar elements as far as fines (if so, to what level? And no enforcement? Any ideas?

[Pistons]

New markets will spring up, there are just too much money involved in global sex trade for the feminists to win. Research says that the more liberal a country is in regards to sex and free speech, the higher the innovation. So even if this won't affect german tax money directly, it will eventually affect it indirectly as startups of young males, and outsourced offices will move elsewhere.