General Info

[Sirioja]

Mongerer, nice reply, well put.

Reinforcing your point, a US member recently gave me graphic descriptions of how sex is sold in those many parts of the USA it is illegal

Yes, some of us do read the German language forums "to see what is out there". Your posts on Spain make me wish I could try it, as does a youtube video on streetwalkers in La Jonquera: the girls looked hotter than 98% of those in FKK

Yes, I think it is Kamilla Dee: it used to be bbbj.

As most of the FKK customers are German I think you'll be safe, even if some of the FKK foreign visitors switch to neighbouring countries
Cheers.

First club in la Jonquera is fuck factory Paradise with sometimes nearly 200 girls. Gran Madams which was great and Lady Dallas which was number 1 10 years ago, are dying. Even at Vip Paradise for 250/ h or Moonight Figueres, services level and beauty level are below girls I meet at LR, or GT, or even some at Aca.

Rate at Paradise is 60/30 mn, DFK and BBBJ are not really standard, more suck and fucks. Not my level, only Ampuriabrava or Rosas beaches worth, but I prefer climbing both sides of Tourmalet.

[AlexKrom]

Hi guys,

I need some help please.

I am new to this scene and I am thinking about visiting one of the FKK clubs next week. Since I started reading the posts I noticed that there is a ton of options with a lot of variety that is confusing for someone who wants to decide which club to go for the first time.

I would really appreciate it if you guys could point me in the right direction or send me useful information / reviews / links, etc. In order to find the best option what should I do? Read all the threads and try to extract the useful parts or there is a place that I can find summarized information / ratings / reviews?

Let me know what your suggestions are for a first time visit. If you could throw in your own ranking based on your experience it would be great (based on facilities, size, line up, price, etc.).

Regards.

[Optimist]

https://youtu.be/4gSD1XU_UyQ

Had to put link here as forum can't cope with links in an edited report.

[Optimist]

Mongerer, nice reply, well put.

Reinforcing your point, a US member recently gave me graphic descriptions of how sex is sold in those many parts of the USA where it is illegal

Yes, some of us do read the German language forums "to see what is out there". Your posts on Spain make me wish I could try it, as does a youtube video on streetwalkers in La Jonquera: the girls looked hotter than 98% of those in FKK ("was furs auge in la jonquera")

Yes, I think it is Kamilla Dee: it used to be bbbj.

As most of the FKK customers are German I think you'll be safe, even if some of the FKK foreign visitors switch to neighbouring countries
Cheers.

[Mongerer88]

Mongerer. Interesting points. I think you make just one error: FKK clubs in Germany do not keep a record of the charges a girl makes. The girls are legally self employed and their income is their own business. Clubs which do anything to infringe this principle risk severe attention by the authorities.

There are many reasons why many of us in this thread go only or mainly to Germany. It is not always due to lack of enterprise.

By the way, you say an amazing number of guys think that you are a pimp because you do reviews. I don't think I recall a host of accusations against you in the FKK threads.

He was probably just joking, but I think Pistons or someone said the three or four of us guys discussing Spain versus the FKKs in a Spanish ISG forum were probably pimps. I know you guys banter around a lot, and not all comments should be taken seriously. And there was another comment by someone stating that they feel most reviews for non-FKK venues are written by the girls or by pimps. I disagree with that and think the FKK guys should venture into some of the other forums to see what is out there. You can usually spot fake reviews because they are written by someone only doing reviews of only one place with a few random general comments in various forums to get post counts up. And the reviews are usually written the way English is taught to good students in the subcontinent of India, with an introductory paragraph starting with something like Hello Friends and a detailed explanation of why they were in the city, rather than how a John would begin a conversation with other johns.

I was just conveying that the new law will probably not be a real issue. It is good that no separate tracking exists for specific upcharges by service. And unlike the Nevada legal brothels where the culture was CBJs during that pre-Internet period of time in the 1980's where people mistakenly believed that oral sex was a significant HIV transmission risk, the current FKK culture seems to be oriented to BBBJs. It is difficult to get a group of ladies, even at a place like Kamilla Dee's (I forget the exact name) who usually do CBJs to switch to BBBJs, but you rarely see ladies who start out doing BBBJs switch to CBJs. Especially when more money is available for BBBJs and plenty of BBBJ alternatives exist for independents and agency ladies in Germany and throughout southern Europe.

Laws just don't mean that much, especially when the "illegal" transaction takes place in private. I suspect the services will be the same at FKKs but the prices will effectively go up a bit and the sharing of information will be more discrete. That is how if works throughout the rest of the world, even in countries where just about everything related to sex is illegal. I hope so. I realize a lot of guys like FKKs, and I also know the services most guys want, including BBBJs us widely available in nearby countries. The FKK guys like to eat food provided by the FKKs after sex, and I am less than thrilled about them spreading throughout Europe like the Barbarian tribes of old days, offering 50 euros for a half hour BBBJ session with independents or at small brothels, and requesting that the provider fix them a free sandwich after the half hour session has finished.

[Optimist]

Mongerer. Interesting points. I think you make just one error: FKK clubs in Germany do not keep a record of the charges a girl makes. The girls are legally self employed and their income is their own business. Clubs which do anything to infringe this principle risk severe attention by the authorities.

There are many reasons why many of us in this thread go only or mainly to Germany. It is not always due to lack of enterprise.

By the way, you say an amazing number of guys think that you are a pimp because you do reviews. I don't think I recall a host of accusations against you in the FKK threads.

[ExpatLover]

I am kind of amazed at how rarely the guys who post on the FKK threads attempt to understand how things work in the rest of the world and draw reasonable predictions. I notice that most FKK posters only post in the FKK threads and when they travel they are only interested in the largest line-up style brothel.

When Canada adopted the Nordic model, there were predictions on the three major Canadian review board that it would end the strong escort system. Women, who were doing nothing illegal, would routinely blackmail the customers at the end of the sessions. Hotels would call the police when they see women entering hotel rooms registered to men and the police would be outside the hotel room to interview the women and go in to search the room for condoms. Incall would go way entirely. Neighbors would report the places and the police would use battering rams to knock down the doors. Cell phones of escort agencies would be tapped and monitored. Well guess what, none of that fucking happened. There have been no arrests under the new law, most police departments announced that the enforcement priorities would remain protecting underaged, exploited, and physically abused escorts. None of the agencies folded, reviews didn't decline, and services remained the same. Lesson: changes in laws don't always have as large of an effect as a lot of people think.

If you look at countries near Germany with no FKKs, BBBJ is either standard or easily obtained. No two countries or even localities are the same of course. In Spain, the independents simply advertise whether BBBJ and / or BBBJTC is available. Upsells for this are rare among independents, but their prices are usually a bit more than at the brothels, especially since they often require a one hour minimum. At a number of smaller Madrid and Barcelona appointment-style brothels, every lady simply does BBBJ. No specific upsells. There are a couple of brothels in Madrid where all of the ladies do BBBJ and some do BBBJTC and the upsell is published and standard for each lady..

For me the main problem is the conformity to the law, I will never go mongering in a country where it is not legal even everything is available. The number of girls offering BBBJ after 1st of July will be limited, just because the beautiful one want to protect their health, even some are starting to apply it today. Obviously if the girl knows you for many years she is free to do what she wants.

[Mongerer88]

In France, clients caught with a prostitute can be prosecuted, but if I go to meet a beautiful Russian woman in hotel or in apartment and because we are attracted, we have sex between adults, and when I leave, I forget 250 on the table, where is the law?

In Germany, in brothels, when I'm in room with my independant WG and we agree about kind of sex we want to have together, I will just check door is quite close and I will enjoy like before 1st July. Private between 2 adults.

I am kind of amazed at how rarely the guys who post on the FKK threads attempt to understand how things work in the rest of the world and draw reasonable predictions. I notice that most FKK posters only post in the FKK threads and when they travel they are only interested in the largest line-up style brothel.

When Canada adopted the Nordic model, there were predictions on the three major Canadian review board that it would end the strong escort system. Women, who were doing nothing illegal, would routinely blackmail the customers at the end of the sessions. Hotels would call the police when they see women entering hotel rooms registered to men and the police would be outside the hotel room to interview the women and go in to search the room for condoms. Incall would go way entirely. Neighbors would report the places and the police would use battering rams to knock down the doors. Cell phones of escort agencies would be tapped and monitored. Well guess what, none of that fucking happened. There have been no arrests under the new law, most police departments announced that the enforcement priorities would remain protecting underaged, exploited, and physically abused escorts. None of the agencies folded, reviews didn't decline, and services remained the same. Lesson: changes in laws don't always have as large of an effect as a lot of people think.

If you look at countries near Germany with no FKKs, BBBJ is either standard or easily obtained. No two countries or even localities are the same of course. In Spain, the independents simply advertise whether BBBJ and / or BBBJTC is available. Upsells for this are rare among independents, but their prices are usually a bit more than at the brothels, especially since they often require a one hour minimum. At a number of smaller Madrid and Barcelona appointment-style brothels, every lady simply does BBBJ. No specific upsells. There are a couple of brothels in Madrid where all of the ladies do BBBJ and some do BBBJTC and the upsell is published and standard for each lady. The best comparison to FKKs are the clubs and large line-up brothels where some of the ladies only do CBJs and some do BBBJ and some do BBBJTC. The majority of ladies who do BBBJ and BBBJTC at these places do in fact upsell it. Ironically, most of the smaller appointment-type brothels that don't upsell BBBJ or BBBJTC in Barcelona are less expensive, but you don't get a line-up. Lessons: When you put a lot of ladies in the same place and service offerings vary from lady to lady, there is a higher probability of upcharges from the ladies offering the most services. Also, you can often avoid all the negotiating hassles by sacrificing line-ups, researching advertisements, and trusting reviews from your fellow johns with multiple reviews and/or reviews in different places. An amazing number of guys on FKK boards accuse those of us taking time to do reviews of being pimps. Which is pretty fucking incredible given that many of those guys think that no group of sex workers are more exploited than the Romanians at FKKs.

As I said, no two countries are the same. Portugal has no culture of upselling. The biggest well-reviewed escort service in Lisbon and Porto charges the same whether or not the escort does CIM or even anal. They detail the service offerings on the website so the customer has an idea what to expect. There are no upcharges reported for the ladies. Same at the line-up style brothels. They either do CBJ, BBBJ, or BBBJTC. Same price, no upsells. I don't think there are in lessons here. The FKKs already have enough culture of existing upselling, so I don't think they will become like Portugal.

When you examine the ads in France and the Czech Republic, you see that more often than not, BBBJTC is listed as a surcharge, especially for agencies. Or like Spain if you see it as part of the "regular" price, it is offered by an independent escort who has a relatively higher per hour price than escorts who either don't offer it or levy a surcharge. The lesson is that this higher-level service is rarely free.

Obviously, the FKKs will need to protect themselves. They can't maintain records indicating that money was booked as upcharges for BBBJs. But that seems easy to fix by just changing to unspecified tips, if it needs to be recorded at all. If they don't see the need to adapt, they need look no further than the Nevada, USA legal brothels. Many of these went out of business since the Internet began flourishing. It is widely reported that the value of these legal licenses has drastically declined in value over the years. They have state law restrictions requiring CBJs and prohibiting anal sex that are generally followed. Once ladies could easily advertise on the Internet and use cell phones and email, most gradually left to work as independents in Vegas and throughout the country. There was once an entire review board dedicated to these places, but it was actually purchased by the legal brothels because it had too much information as to how to get better services, almost always BBBJ, from independent escorts in the USA or in Canada (if someone was obsessed with never technically breaking a law or wants to pay less for the same services). You simply can't find a review any more of legal brothel ladies. No one seems to go to them any more, with good reason. The services are clinical compared to independents reviewed on USA Escort review boards. The FKKs are going to learn this lesson and adapt to avoid being like the Nevada legal brothels.

Bottom line is that my prediction is that BBBJ and BBBJTC will continue to be available at FKKs. Based on nearby countries, it will probably have an upsell, and the clubs and the customers will have to disguise this charge and possibly learn to shut the fuck up about it, including an explicit discussion on message boards. We will probably see terms from experienced reviewers known to prefer BBBJs such as she will make you very happy, but remember to give her a good general tip upfront. The FKK system is unique and it should be interesting to see what happens.

[Sirioja]

I live in Sweden and it has been unlawful to buy sex since 1999 - street prostitution has almost vanished, but otherwise the trade is flourishing and it is rather easy to find a girl. In recent years the number of Thai. Massages have exploded and most of them are in reality brothels. You pay for the massage and behind closed doors you negotiate "extras" with the girl. Still it has turned out to be difficult to convict the owners of the massages for procuration since the prosecutor has to present solid evidence in the court that the owner is aware of what is going on in the rooms. Unless the girls are willing to witness it is almost impossible for the prosecutor.

The problem is that you can not know beforehand which thai-massages are brothels or which girls in a given massage are willing to provide sex or not. Sometimes it is first after a second or a third visit it is possible to get sex.

My guess is that will be something similar in German. If I read the notice between the lines I see it as a kind of waiver. The brothel has done its duty, but actually also explicitly tells that the girls are independent and they take no responsibility for what is agreed on in the room. I. E. BBBJ and maybe even BBFS is allowed in the room as long as the owner "do not know" and nobody sees it. Hence, my guess is that BBBJ and even BBFS will be available behind closed doors and with independent girls. The problem will be, as in Sweden with Thai-massages, that it will be more difficult to know beforehand which services are provided.

In France, clients caught with a prostitute can be prosecuted, but if I go to meet a beautiful Russian woman in hotel or in apartment and because we are attracted, we have sex between adults, and when I leave, I forget 250 on the table, where is the law?

In Germany, in brothels, when I'm in room with my independant WG and we agree about kind of sex we want to have together, I will just check door is quite close and I will enjoy like before 1st July. Private between 2 adults.

[AdamVeden]

So, clubs just have to give information about new law and prosecution, but what happen in room is only private agreement between the independent WGs and the client ready to pay for services. Just have to be careful to keep on enjoying future.

I live in Sweden and it has been unlawful to buy sex since 1999 - street prostitution has almost vanished, but otherwise the trade is flourishing and it is rather easy to find a girl. In recent years the number of Thai. Massages have exploded and most of them are in reality brothels. You pay for the massage and behind closed doors you negotiate "extras" with the girl. Still it has turned out to be difficult to convict the owners of the massages for procuration since the prosecutor has to present solid evidence in the court that the owner is aware of what is going on in the rooms. Unless the girls are willing to witness it is almost impossible for the prosecutor.

The problem is that you can not know beforehand which thai-massages are brothels or which girls in a given massage are willing to provide sex or not. Sometimes it is first after a second or a third visit it is possible to get sex.

My guess is that will be something similar in German. If I read the notice between the lines I see it as a kind of waiver. The brothel has done its duty, but actually also explicitly tells that the girls are independent and they take no responsibility for what is agreed on in the room. I. E. BBBJ and maybe even BBFS is allowed in the room as long as the owner "do not know" and nobody sees it. Hence, my guess is that BBBJ and even BBFS will be available behind closed doors and with independent girls. The problem will be, as in Sweden with Thai-massages, that it will be more difficult to know beforehand which services are provided.

[ExpatLover]

It looks to me to be not predictive of BBBJ or even BBFS going away. It's more like indemnification for the FKK owner. Translation follows:

* * *.

CONDOM DUTY.

Dear guests,

We have to point out that from 01.07. 2017 in our house a concession exists.

Please keep this agreement. If this is not the case, you can count on a penalty of up to 50,000.

Note.

As before, prostitutes offer their services in their own name and for their own account, and reckon their own names and do not act on behalf of the holder of the prostitute act!

The provision of sexual services is agreed exclusively between the prostitutes and their clients or customers and is not part of the entry fee.

In the big FKK, meetings already took place and it was clearly stated that if a girl is doing BJ without condom she will be immediately fired, the management will also listing carefully about the complains from the other girls and also what mongers are sharing together about girls (bar area, sauna and even forums). The big clubs want a fair competition and will not accept to loose customers because some girls or mongers are not following the new laws, it seems they will strictly apply the new law.

[Sirioja]

It looks to me to be not predictive of BBBJ or even BBFS going away. It's more like indemnification for the FKK owner. Translation follows:

* * *.

CONDOM DUTY.

Dear guests,

We have to point out that from 01.07. 2017 in our house a concession exists.

Please keep this agreement. If this is not the case, you can count on a penalty of up to 50,000.

Note.

As before, prostitutes offer their services in their own name and for their own account, and reckon their own names and do not act on behalf of the holder of the prostitute act!

The provision of sexual services is agreed exclusively between the prostitutes and their clients or customers and is not part of the entry fee.

So, clubs just have to give information about new law and prosecution, but what happen in room is only private agreement between the independent WGs and the client ready to pay for services. Just have to be careful to keep on enjoying future.

[YamaYama0519]

It looks to me to be not predictive of BBBJ or even BBFS going away. It's more like indemnification for the FKK owner. Translation follows...

Thank you for translation.

[Neurosynth]

I found this notice at FKK ROM today.

It looks to me to be not predictive of BBBJ or even BBFS going away. It's more like indemnification for the FKK owner. Translation follows:

* * *.

CONDOM DUTY.

Dear guests,

We have to point out that from 01.07. 2017 in our house a concession exists.

Please keep this agreement. If this is not the case, you can count on a penalty of up to € 50,000.

Note.

As before, prostitutes offer their services in their own name and for their own account, and reckon their own names and do not act on behalf of the holder of the prostitute act!

The provision of sexual services is agreed exclusively between the prostitutes and their clients or customers and is not part of the entry fee.

[YamaYama0519]

I found this notice at FKK ROM today.