General Info

[McAdonis]

So now that the new law seems to attack RTC clubs more than any other segment of the industry, where do you think its customers will end up? Upmarket? (top FKK's) Or downmarket? (RLD's).

Not just FKK and RTC. The hardcore German mongers have always diversified their P6 investments. If an ex-FKK WG ends up working apartments or RLD, usually someone on the German-forum FKK threads will let everybody else know. That suggests they are scouting everywhere.

[DrPoon]

Good question. Well the question would have to be answered by a German court if the person was prosecuted for the condom law violation. But based on American cases, the California Supreme court held that porn was not considered prostitution. In other states besides California, porn could be considered prostitution but not necessarily. Also buying American porn could be problematic because Los Angeles County where most porn was produced enacted a condom law requiring a condom for regular and anal sex but not oral sex. These days all non condom porn would have to be produced outside Los Angeles County at least.

DrPoon,

Since you have a medical pedigree. Does the new law effective 1 July mean that German porno sites like MyDirtyHobby mean that the actors need to wear condoms as well in their films, or are they excluded since they are not performing prostitution but acting in a film and as such exempt?

Following that theme, if I say to my girl in the FKK that I am hiring her to make a movie for my next major motion feature film and that we are going to be the actors in one scene, does that in any way change the activity involved to another state?

Just musings that I have had for a long time, scared that MyDirtyHobby website films will all become with condom only sex clips. So sad if it does. I will just buy American then.

[Member #4585]

So now that the new law seems to attack RTC clubs more than any other segment of the industry, where do you think its customers will end up? Upmarket? (top FKK's) Or downmarket? (RLD's).

Many times you see the same customers in RTC or AO clubs as are in the mainstream FKK clubs. It is already the same customer base.

These mature German men go to the RTC style club in the morning, do some girls to get cheap thrills, then go to the mainstream club with all the amenities to relax, use spa facilities, drink and eat and talk with friends until they have had their fill.

What a life.

The Germans that I speak to all claim that they use condom even before 1 July. They say that one would be mad not to be using condom for this hobby. So no change then post 1 July.

[Member #4585]

I think those are those flat rate clubs and I think that "flat rate" is banned also along with BBBJ. Also I believe that alles ohne (condom) was focused on at these establishments. Germany has I think only 25% of the HIV cases that the USA has per capita so they used to be able to get away with this due to low infection risks there, but this could be the reason the new law was made. Although the new law went awry when it swept the BBBJ into the overboard condom regulations. I think everyone could get behind a condom regulation for anal and vaginal sex. A limited version if the law were amended.

DrPoon,

Since you have a medical pedigree. Does the new law effective 1 July mean that German porno sites like MyDirtyHobby mean that the actors need to wear condoms as well in their films, or are they excluded since they are not performing prostitution but acting in a film and as such exempt?

Following that theme, if I say to my girl in the FKK that I am hiring her to make a movie for my next major motion feature film and that we are going to be the actors in one scene, does that in any way change the activity involved to another state?

Just musings that I have had for a long time, scared that MyDirtyHobby website films will all become with condom only sex clips. So sad if it does. I will just buy American then.

[Neurosynth]

I've made this joke because one of the common products at the RTCs are these almost toy-like self-serve coke machines that fill small glasses about 3/4 of the way.

I've heard a similar joke that's much less charitable to the customers.

(Dietzenbach also uses one of these tiny coke machines. Does that indicate common ownership with other RTC's, or did they just copy it? Dunno.).

[Neurosynth]

I've been told the term came from the ubiquitous red on red decoration scheme commonly found at these clubs.

It's my impression that there are two ways to use the term. The tighter circle is a set of clubs that seem to be owned by the same people given the same girls will be found rotating through them. They also share common pricing (more or less), the default expectation (with the occasional exception that should self-identify) of AO services, and other little things like using the same products.

But there is a wider circle that doesn't necessarily imply common owners, merely a similar business model. I suspect that La Luna is outside of the tighter commonly owned RTC circle. Less clear to me is Dietzenbach which has a similar business model, but doesn't seem to use the same pool of girls.

This is, however, all based on observation and inference. I've yet to speak to someone who has certainty about who owns the clubs. Perhaps under the new laws one could find out by accessing the licensing records.

[Pistons]

So now that the new law seems to attack RTC clubs more than any other segment of the industry, where do you think its customers will end up? Upmarket? (top FKK's) Or downmarket? (RLD's).

[Neurosynth]

Then you just don't know the German FKK club scene.

HB.

I can at least construct a contradiction-free statement. You both claimed that no non-RTC clubs allowed AO and that Bernd's, a non-RTC club, allowed AO. Try to make sense of that rather than puffing up your claimed authority.

[UltraHappy]

As everyone is talking about Bernds, on the advertising left of this page, BBBJ is still mentioned.

I'm fairly certain that the abbreviation, "BBBJ" stands for "Big Booty Bitches Jiving. ".

Either that or "Big Blue Blob Jelly. ".

Yes, definitely one of those.

[BigBuddy69]

As everyone is talking about Bernds, on the advertising left of this page, BBBJ is still mentioned.

[Optimist]

KC.

Just a bit further clarification.

Flat rate clubs were never included in the meaning of red carpet clubs (rote teppich club).

Annabella and Luderland and Dietzenbach are rtc as well as those in your main list. I would question La Luna: it has traditionally been seen as a bit apart, with its higher pricing, but I would now include it.

Alles Ohne was available officially and even publicly in all these clubs, unlike other Saunaclubs/FKKS where girls who practised it were refused further club entry (apart from Bernds)

I hope this and my previous post make it clear

Visit one and then you'll know for yourself

Cheers

[Hessen Bub]

I can't make sense of what you are saying.

Bernd's is not an RTC club. If you say AO was unofficially on the menu, then AO was in fact not banned in this non-RTC club.

So by example your claim that AO was banned in "all clubs except the RTCs" isn't true.

(By the way Bernd's was just an example. In fact I don't recall BBFS being mentioned as "banned" at *any* club (outside of Bavaria)).

Then you just don't know the German FKK club scene.

HB.

[Optimist]

KC. Try were clubs with cheap entry, no food, poor surroundings, where girls each sat on an allocated sofa. Too dark to see the dingy red carpets. The girls were generally less attractive than in the big clubs, although nowadays this is not quite so stark. The service in these clubs used to be reliably better than in some of the big clubs but no longer so.

Their unique selling point was Alles Ohne. Of course it is now illegal for this to be advertised or promoted by the clubs.

So, I encourage everybody to make their own way and see what they find. I visited two recently as I have reported in the appropriate threads.

Yes all the clubs you mentioned are rtc.

[DrPoon]

I think those are those flat rate clubs and I think that "flat rate" is banned also along with BBBJ. Also I believe that alles ohne (condom) was focused on at these establishments. Germany has I think only 25% of the HIV cases that the USA has per capita so they used to be able to get away with this due to low infection risks there, but this could be the reason the new law was made. Although the new law went awry when it swept the BBBJ into the overboard condom regulations. I think everyone could get behind a condom regulation for anal and vaginal sex. A limited version if the law were amended.

Can you explain what exactly an RTC is? I did a search and found a description (on another site) that suggested it was just one of the lower class FKKs. They said it was a joke because Rote Teppich means red carpet and these clubs were less than red carpet treatment. What makes a club an RTC?

That report listed the following clubs as "RTC":

Villa Romantika in Recklingshausen
Grimberg Sauna in Gelsenkirchen
Arabella in Bochum
Villa Venus in Duisburg
Freudenberg 39 in Bochum
Club laluna in Moers
Verena in Dortmund
M exclusiv in Munster and Buldern

No mention of Luderland or Annabella (sister clubs to some of the above) or Dietzenbach (which I've seen listed as an RTC).

[UltraHappy]

Then why is it that plenty of other sites don't censor in the same way, and yet, they most certainly can receive and have credit card payments processed? I know because I am a member of those sites. Is it perhaps dependent on which company with which requirements is doing the processing?

You can find Jackson's explanation here: http://isgprohibitedwords.info/.

Just scroll down to the bottom of the censored words list and read his explanation that begins with "Commercial Censorship. ".