General Info

[DrPoon]

The redlight districts have always been CBJ. So why even bother. Germany doesn't seem to be a great tourist destination these days.

Hello guys,

I am organizing a FKK bachelor party trip next year and we want to hit up a different FKK clubs every day for 5-7 days. We plan to land in Frankfurt and drive around the country by renting a car to take some nice pictures of the country side to take back home to show our wives. In the mean time, we want to hit up all the well known FKK clubs in Germany. It seems like Oase, Shark, and World are must visit around Frankfurt. What other FKK clubs are worth the drive to beside these big 3's on this forum? Also, Which redlight district can we check out in the mean time? Also, is it good idea to go to FKK around Easter weekend? Thanks guys.

[McAdonis]

Since both sides seem to agree that our little forum here constitutes a very small fraction of the total FKK market, the self moderating proponents still have not answered the question "how do you propose to achieve self moderation beyond this forum" and "why does our discussion here impact the total market".

How can a forum be a fraction of the FKK market? The total market of what?

There are 15000 reports in Sharks in ISG. LSH has 19000.

Aren't the other major forums removing BBBJ posts? Aside from a few rogue reports, most of the major forums have always self-moderated when it came to AO at mainstream clubs, so I suspect they are hoping that BBBJ will reach same level of self-moderation.

[Pistons]

Mongerer: that is exactly my thought on how they operate also. It is pure logic to do it that way. I hint about posters here who ask for news regarding BBBJ is an undercover cop.

[CoolManFever]

Hello guys,

I am organizing a FKK bachelor party trip next year and we want to hit up a different FKK clubs every day for 5-7 days. We plan to land in Frankfurt and drive around the country by renting a car to take some nice pictures of the country side to take back home to show our wives. In the mean time, we want to hit up all the well known FKK clubs in Germany. It seems like Oase, Shark, and World are must visit around Frankfurt. What other FKK clubs are worth the drive to beside these big 3's on this forum? Also, Which redlight district can we check out in the mean time? Also, is it good idea to go to FKK around Easter weekend? Thanks guys.

[PussyLiccker]

Jackson has his server somewhere outside Germany or USA and credit card payments shows up as some donation.

You notice he thought through some of this stuff with the censorship of certain terms and all.

[Citizen Kane]

Basically, no. Although there is no precedent for attempts by the German government to gather evidence ...

Many thanks for the info. A very interesting and informative read.

[Mongerer88]

Genuine question to anyone who is more internet savvy than me;

Is there even the remotest possibility that an ISG member could be identified by the authorities via credit card payment for membership or some other method?

Basically, no. Although there is no precedent for attempts by the German government to gather evidence to prosecute someone for commercial sex transactions, since everything has in the past been legal, you might be surprised at how difficult such an endeavor is in countries where everything about a commercial sex transaction is illegal.

As others have pointed out, there are four major review boards currently operating in the United States that give tremendous detail regarding the activities that occur. The reviews for the one with a three-letter acronym requiring paid membership that focuses on ladies in the $300-$500 an hour range has reviews that are far more explicit than what is found on ISG. The owner of ISG has a sister review site for the USA Market that tends to attract reviews for ladies charging less than $200 or so per sex act. I won't get off topic and belabor the point, but there is a striking difference between the looks, services, and social class between those two extremes. The poster that suggested that some USA Providers on backpage may leave this activity to begin drawing retirement checks at age 62 tells a person what might be encountered from backpage-type providers at the lower end of the pricing scale. I know that some guys find diamonds in the rough, but there is a lot of "rough" at the lower-end of the USA Market.

But anyway, those review sites in the USA Tend to locate their servers in foreign jurisdictions that do not have information sharing arrangements with other countries, particularly when the activity being discussed is legal in the country where the information is stored. So law enforcement has a difficult time even getting information. And as others have noted, most "western" legal systems would not allow that evidence to be entered into court anyway. Someone could steal your credit card, buy a membership on a review site, and do false posts. A lot of reviews are in fact completely made up. It just isn't real "evidence". Various law enforcement agencies have tried, especially in the early days of the Internet when the ********* review site was the big dog, and law enforcement kept losing on procedural and evidentiary points, eventually just dropping its attempts to get reviews and use them as evidence. I am oversimplifying, so Google it if you want. The case was in Tampa. In fact, the technique now used by law enforcement in the USA When it attempts to bust a local review site that isn't careful with data storage is not to subpoena records but is instead to join the site and send undercover agents to meet and greets. They are then able to get real people to admit that they wrote which reviews. That is what happened to the local Seattle review board, but this was boots on the ground, face to face, police work. Not computer investigations. When Canada went to the half-legal, half illegal system, their review boards relocated offshore, so this technique seems to work.

Of course, this is paranoia. It would be shocking if Germany went to extremes to get information about the identity of posters regarding posts about an illegal component of a commercial sex act, when the other components are legal. But if the activities occurring in other countries are a guide, that would not likely occur as a result of review sites willingly giving up information on their members, nor would that information necessarily be admissible in court, anyway.

That is all separate from the issue of whether information should be posted. It is not a stretch to believe that law enforcement in the USA Uses some of the review board posts to decide whether to send undercover officers to a given massage parlor to try to make arrests or closures after the officer is solicited for sex, even though the reviews themselves are never used as evidence.

[Neurosynth]

Genuine question to anyone who is more internet savvy than me;

Is there even the remotest possibility that an ISG member could be identified by the authorities via credit card payment for membership or some other method?

If you consider the NSA and CIA to be part of "the remotest possibility" I'd say yes.

[Neurosynth]

Did you predict that your campaign would in fact deter me from posting. If this is an example of your predictive abilities then maybe you are wrong about the whole subject?

In the realm of board debates one doesn't post to change the mind of another poster. That can sometimes happen, but it's rare.

One posts in order to get all the arguments on the record so that third party readers somewhere in the middle can be swayed one way or the other.

[Neurosynth]

AO was banned (by club management) in all clubs except the RTCs pre July 1st 2017. And if it became known, the girl and the guy were thrown out.

HB.

I believe this to be counterfactual. For example, I've never heard of such a thing regarding Bernd's.

[BigBuddy69]

I'm out. At least for a while and on that topic. Probably until it's bothering me that much that I can't keep my big mouth shut.

HB.

It won't be long.

[Neurosynth]

German are rule following people. They do not look the other way when they are aware of scofflaws. They also understand, don't ask, don't tell. The world does not operate based on how you think. Why not follow the local culture?

Except the question is what will the sex workers do? Very few are Germans, most seem to be Romanian, and their cultural values are quite different and not subject to changing quickly.

[Citizen Kane]

Genuine question to anyone who is more internet savvy than me;

Is there even the remotest possibility that an ISG member could be identified by the authorities via credit card payment for membership or some other method?

===============================================

Greetings,

Let me address your concerns about using a credit card to purchase a subscription.

1. Is there any danger that your credit card data might be stolen? No. Both the shopping cart service and the credit card service I use to process the credit card transactions are both conducted on secure, encrypted websites, so your credit card information is secure.

2. Is there any danger that your credit card statement will show that you've purchased a membership to this forum? No. The credit card charge will appear as "GT*isginternetsale18888890788" which is more easily explained as a regular payment to anyone who might read your credit card statement.

3. Is there any danger that a law enforcement agency might force me to divulge your forum username? No. I delete the shopping cart transaction data every few days, and that's the only connection between your credit card charge and your username. In other words, the credit card charge doesn't include your username, only the shopping cart database has this info, and I have total control over the shopping cart's database.

In addition, the forum's servers are located in Hamburg, Germany, safely outside the USA legal system, and in a country where commercial sex is legal.

4. Is there a possibility that I will take your money and disappear? No. This has been a membership website for several years, and nobody here has ever reported a single problem with using their credit card to purchase a subscription. Believe me, if there had ever been a problem, it would have been reported it here.

5. Are there any options other than using my credit card? Yes. You can purchase an anonymous, pre-loaded credit card online and at numerous retail outlets. There is also an option to purchase a subscription by mail using cash.

http://www.internationalsexguide.inf...G_Payments.php

Thanks,

Jackson

[Optimist]

Jnpr. I didn't think you were telling me what to write, so no problem. Thanks for ensuring no misunderstanding.

Your general point that what we do here doesn't really affect what other people write elsewhere is of course true. I don't see that it reduces the argument I make that we should be circumspect in what we write in order to reduce negative consequences. Others will take their own decisions.

Your points.

A) I think this is your key point, and as a proponent of circumspect reporting, I'd like to be clear that I don't wish to tell others what to write, and just want to put forward my views.

B) As I have written before I do think that what we write has an impact, to a very marginal degree, on what happens in clubs.

C) I don't want to do something just because somebody else might do it if I don't. I'd prefer to take the chance that if I do what I think is right, then maybe others might.

I am arguing for circumspect reporting so that some idea of what is happening in clubs can be preserved in a low key way. Shouting from the rooftops about illegal activity is the best way to attract the attention of authorities. Anecdotally I have met other visitors to clubs who have told me that they will not post because of the campaign to broadcast it. In a strange way, the anti-self censorship campaign seems to be leading to even less reporting than there would have been without it.

[Member #4581]

Since both sides seem to agree that our little forum here constitutes a very small fraction of the total FKK market, the self moderating proponents still have not answered the question "how do you propose to achieve self moderation beyond this forum" and "why does our discussion here impact the total market".

Surely, even HB -- great as he is, can't moderate every single monger out there, can he?

And if it is a case of "even a single case of bad reporting can break the world, so let us do our part and hope for the best" (that's an admirable sense of good Samaritan spirit no doubt), but surely that's a tad overstretched, no? When was the monger world so full of self restraining characters? This seems like a glass house perched very precariously in the middle of a million sharp pebbles with a violent storm in perpetuity.

And Optmist -- not sure who told you to provide more details or whatever, it was absolutely not me. I always said people will write what they want to write, regardless of badgering from others. My argument is the exact opposite. All commenters here are being asked to self censor, and I object because (a) I don't like being told how / what to write (b) I don't think what we write has any true impact in the end (c) I don't think EVERYONE else will self censor even if I did.