General Info

[Jackyo]

Hi,

It sounds like Hof is a great choice, however, I can't figure out how to get there. I am in Mainz, with no car (need taxi or train) and don't speak German.

Would love to insight on how to get to Hof and what to expect (protocol, etc).

I am a babe in the woods here, but I would be *very* happy to reciprocate with information regarding just about anywhere in the U.S.

.. but if you visit the Hof thread there already is a bit of information on how to get there without a car. There are also numerous reports on what to expect, how to act.

One reason why you may be confused is that the Hof or the Schieferhof is another name for Bernds Sauna Club.

It has its own thread on this forum: FKK Bernds (Schieferhof).

[Eagle 5]

I was in Frankfurt the last week with another mongering friend of mine and had a great time. I spent a week rotating between Oase, World and Palace. This was my second time going to Germany to specifically visit FKK's and I would like to share some of my general observations of the clubs.

Disclaimer---these are my opinions---feel free to disagree!

Oase

This is by far my favorite club. I found that the girls in general were more friendly and did not harrass the heck out of you if you did not want a session. The girls where never rude or make sarcastic remarks if you declined a session with them.

The gems that I did find were all GFE and provided excellent service. I did not have 1 bad session here.

Palace

There are a lot of quality women in this place, BUT a lot of churn and burn. There is a T.V. Show in Canada Called "this hour has fourty minutes" I found that the title of Palace should be "This half hour has twenty minutes". I really disliked the Romanian Contingency there. I found that they were aggressive outside but a 5/10 in the rooms. Also around 11 PM the clubs get so packed that there are not enough avaliable rooms and you end up waiting most of the time. My friend was also ripped off there for time.Parking is also a ***** unless you get there in the afternoon. Most of the girls which I had sessions with where OK but they really wanted to be done and once you spermed you were shown the door, no kissing or hugging afterwards. Again the staff here sucked and I thought were borderline rude.

Funny story about Lina (Czech Rep): As I was about to CIM she went to the lights to turn it up "so you can get a good look of your sperm shooting in my mouth" I though that was a nice touch!

World

The facilities are by far the best of the three but I found the talent really lacking in comparison to my last visit. The one thing I did notice was there was a lot more public sex than the other 2 clubs and it was really interesting seeing a 60 year old man getting blown and fucked in the middle of the dance floor with everyone watching!

I was there twice during the week and only had sessions with 2 people (which was good).

In general of the three clubs:

Best providers: Polish, Ukriane, Russian

I found that any session with these EE ladies was 10/10, service with a smile and the best BBBJ of all the girls. They make you feel like they are really in love with you! Makes you want to fly to Poland/Ukriane/Russia to find a wife! LOL

Tempermental Providers: Romanian

For some reason I found them in general to be grumpy (for example--Anka now at Oase), and rushers in the room. Had 3 sessions and only one I thought was decent (Elise----Palace). I just think that most of the romanians do not want to be there.

General notes:

I don't know how these girls do it but I observed one girl doing about 10 guys in 7 hours. Don't they get sore?

I really enjoyed going this second time around and it was a lot of fun going with a friend to discuss the girls. At times after we had a session we would compare notes and then get the girl who the other had sessioned with. I highly recommend going with friends to further enjoy the experience.

I was wondering if any of the girls would remember me from 6 months ago and suprise, suprise quite a few ladies did remember me. I was quite impressed by this.

I am also suprised that some of the ladies were still there after 6 months. I thought that the girls only do this for a few months only.

I was also suprised by the number of married females in the FKK clubs. I don't ask the females about their personal life but I'm assuming that it is done for citizenship reasons.

Lastly, while flying back home it made me realise how people in North America have it good and after hearing some of the stories of the ladies in the EE countries (no, they were not any girls which I had sessions with) that things are indeed good here in North America and things are still quite messed up in the EE countries.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here for more information.

[Akibono]

I got back from a few days of mongering and am suffering from Fkk disease. I find myself staring at the women at work when they walk by and thinking they are in the nude, or at least wondering what they would look like without their clothes. Reports soon in the various forums.

[Webdog]

Hi,

It sounds like Hof is a great choice, however, I can't figure out how to get there. I am in Mainz, with no car (need taxi or train) and don't speak German.

Would love to insight on how to get to Hof and what to expect (protocol, etc).

I am a babe in the woods here, but I would be *very* happy to reciprocate with information regarding just about anywhere in the U.S.

[Routard]

Unfortunately, since the girls are not named, they may not be blacklisted, but the effect is, that the whole club is "blacklisted".

The STD warning without names is of no use at all I am afraid. What does one do except not go there? Even that is of no use, because the girls can go to another club.

I would personally name names or say actually nothing.

The warning is not against specific girls, neither against a club. It's a warning against STD, exactly like I wrote it on the title. I knew there was a theoretical risk of catching STD through BBBJ or DATY, but as I had never seen anyone reporting about it, I believed it was a theoretical risk that scientists could not deny but most unlikely to happen for real. Well, now I know it happens for real and not only one time! If you knew this already, then my warning was indeed of no use for you, but might be usefull for others like it was for me.

We know that DATY or BBBJ is safe regarding HIV and not regarding STD. As it is not life threatening, anyone is free to take the risk or not, as long as he has been informed about it. And that's exactly the problem, evaluating the risk. As no one can come up with the % of girls from a given population like a FKK having a specific STD and the % of chance to transmit it through either BBBJ or DATY, there is no other way than getting an idea through statistics from reported STD on a given population of FKK visitors like ourselves. I know, it doesn't sound very clear, but you get the idea.

I was reluctant giving the info as I knew some might take the wrong conclusions. Blacklisting a girl or a club is useless. She has already been informed, is probably already cured and tomorrow it's another girl in another club that might have catched it from a customer that had catched it in GT from the first girl. And blacklisting the five girls of the guy's list as only one has given him the STD is not only useless but inethic.

And then I have my personal reasons. I believe that it's not because we are mongerers that we should not behave like gentlemen. As a rule I wil never give the name of a girl if I need to report someting negative about her.

I have not this rule about the clubs, so I named GT. And GT is still one of my favorite club. It might change if it's each time the same club that is reported with STD warnings. If I was the management of the club, I would take strong action against STD as it might kill the business even faster than the epidemic itself.

[Henio]

...The percentage of girls wiht HPV and Chlamydia must be VERY high. It is among non sex workers...

For what its worth, studies in Germany have actually shown that the rate of infection amongst prostitutes is lower than that of comparible group of non-prostitutes (similar age and marital status). So are you less likely to catch STD in FKK than outside? Well, if you find yourself in a situation where you can fuck 3 or more non working girls in a single day, then I guess you are better off in a FKK.

Chivaz

[Optimist]

As Peter says we have to accept some risk. Given the asymptomatic nature in women of some of the "minor" STDs. they could be tested every 3 months and could still be infectious for almost 12 weeks!

Also it's not just the girls who are the issue - the clients also are spreading infection (i.e. clients who may be symptomless or who are not a responsible). Even syphilis symptoms can be missed in the early stages (so I read)

Personally I would be more worried about TB than gonorrhea.

[Peter]

Mike,

I could name the girl at Babylon who gave me G, but that was because it was the only session I had on that day and the only session I had in any way in a 2 week time frame...and she said she was taking anti-biotics during the session...I thought for something non sex related.

But in the cases Routard mentions there were multiple girls and no way of knowing which one it is.

What standard do you guys want from STD tests? The percentage of girls wiht HPV and Chlamydia must be VERY high. It is among non sex workers. What about Herpes, if you have 1 or 2, are you supposed ot never work again? Or only when you have a break out, but you start shedding usually 3-4 days before noticeable blisters develop. So how is this test supposed to work?

Of course HIV and Syphillis are on an index in Germany and if you are tested positive you are put on a list, and then you won't be working....but what about th elesser STD's like Gonnorhea and such? During Incubation you can transmit, and how long should the girls be out of the game.

And my personal advice woudl be to avoid a club wiht multiple reports, at least for a month for it to get a bit quarantined. Either that or go for CBJ while you are there.

And Chivaz is right. It is no longer mandatory, as it was not enforceable and innefective. And since FKK's are not brothels and the girls are not employed by the club they cannot force the women to have tests.

[Henio]

Hey Peter,

Please explain this one. I was under the impression that this was mandatory for all registered sex-workers in Germany.

Cheers,

Dedalus

Hi Ded,

The compulsory registration and testing was abandoned in 2001 but free testing has been made available to everyone, including illegal immigrants. Some brothel operators require them. As FKK workers are independent and not actual brothels in the literal meaning, they can't really enforce them as the girls are not working for the club. Most of them however put "pressure" on the girls to have them (meaning they do not get to work there if they do not have them).

I would think GT would be one of the clubs "pressuring" for the tests, but I am not sure. They do at least try to monitor the hygenie habits of the girls and will warn them if they do not do proper clean-up in between sessions. This is absolutely not the case at Oase (how in the hell could Sunny work there if it was) and I think it is not the case at World (which explains the smell of Daniela's pussy and armpits after few romps).

Chivaz

[Mike De H]

I am glad that there has been a warnng about Goldentime.

Unfortunately, since the girls are not named, they may not be blacklisted, but the effect is, that the whole club is "blacklisted".

The STD warning without names is of no use at all I am afraid. What does one do except not go there? Even that is of no use, because the girls can go to another club.

I would personally name names or say actually nothing.

[Dedalus]

And do not think there are mandatory STD tests, there are not....in no club!

Hey Peter,

Please explain this one. I was under the impression that this was mandatory for all registered sex-workers in Germany.

Cheers,

Dedalus

[Peter]

bbpr will land you with hpv or herpes in time. hpv can be pretty easy to explain if you are in a relationship, because almost everyone has it and you can claim it was years old. herpes would be a bit tougher.

the only std i have ever had is gonnorhea and i got it in babylon a bunch of years ago. it made me quit going to clubs for about 5 months, and then only getting cbj's for about another 6 months. my doctor informed me clearly that you can get gonnorhea from blowjobs (the excuse i used was a bj during carnival). the virus can be stored and transmitted from the back of the throat.

there are two main problems that i see.

1) a lot of mongers travel, and although normal strains of gonnorhea are easily treated with a wide spectrum anti-biotic like cipro, there are strains in places like thailand which supposedly are very tough to get rid of. since there are more than a couple of mongers who hobby in germany and thailand and brazil the chances that a worse strain might be transmitted ot the girls via cim or even bbfs is likely. pick one of these up and you might be spending some time going from the doctoras to the pharmacists and have a bunch of medical bills that are tough to explain.

2) since a lot of guys in clubs have multiple sessions (as most of us do) the chances that in a closed environment like one club a couple of girls have whatever is going around is almost as likely as an elementary school class all getting the same cold at the same time.

you should also know that the incubation period for gonnorhea is also about 2 weeks, and the first signs are emmissions form the penis. i thought it was a wet dream when i had it. the test is a swab test, but apparently it needs to be done before you [CodeWord134] in the morning. i never got the test done to see which strain it might be, i just started the cipro and it was gone pretty soon, and it was lucky because i went on a very romantic vacation with the gf about 11 days after the onset, and explainign condoms then would have been tough.

i also know that for a while about 2 years ago i saw 3 or 4 girls in phg with pretty obvious herpes blisters. i was unhappy about the reaction of the club when i reported it to the management, and it lead to me avoiding the club for about 8 months, and being really careful to check out womens privates as best i could before diving in.

this hobby is not risk free....i think the risks of actual life threatening things like syphillis or aids are pretty miniscule, but you might want to avoid the club, go for cbj, or allow yourself a self incubation period between club visits and private sex for a while.

i wish clubs would take this more seriously. no reason for a real blacklist, but if i see a girl in the club after being very clear about knowing that she has a disease i am woried about the spread.

and do not think there are mandatory std tests, there are not....in no club!

that being said i still monger, and still go for bbbj, and i am in a real relationship.

i would be careful with the bbpr though...i know it is very popular in bernds, but it is not really high on my priority list.

[Jackyo]

A Dutch guy has reported catching a Gonoroe at Goldentime on 7th of September. He had DATY, BBBJ and BBPR (Bare back Pussy Rubbing) and CFS with 3 girls. He gave the name of the three girls on the forum, but the moderator deleted it. He had informed management of the club too.

And I thought I was the only one!

Now I know better.

I also now know I need to watch out for this.

[Jackyo]

this statement, however, is flat out wrong. there are plenty of senior members who have made invaluable contributions and written long, informative, in some cases authoritative, and in most cases entertaining reports. i try to list the (imho) best ones on the "distinction" thread, and there are many many experienced mongerers listed there.

... because they usually have a sense of awe which is entertaining. its like they have just experienced a revelation of sorts - one which can lead to serious addiction.

it only happens once so capturing that moment is priceless (i know i'm sounding like a kodak commercial).

i am still in awe when i visit a club but its i have been at this for a while and have several points of reference for describing a good experience versus a bad one.

a newbie sometimes has no point of reference and will usually go into more detail about a session (at least more than i would).

having said that, one has to also take their information with a grain of salt. one man's gfe is not the same as anothers.

it might be interesting to do a survey to find out what elements we look for in a gfe. i think we'll find a range of elements, likes and dislikes.

my pet peeve is that she stands up within two minutes of me coming and starts to make the bed. no matter how good she was until that point, if she gets up and hurries me out of the room, i'm instantly turned off by her professionalism. when i was new at this, i wouldn't pay attention to what she did after i came.

if she doesn't kiss, i find also her approach too professional. (granted that some women have dental work which does not encourage kissing.)

one reason why i liked the babylon and wiago clubs was that your session had actually three parts: the preliminaries on the couch, the session itself in the room and then the post-session again on the couch.

you would both leave the room and wash up after doing the nasty deed and when you made your way back to the kontaktzimmer, she would come to you, bring you something to drink if you wanted and sit with you. if things were slow, you could chat (this assumes you have some conversational skills and can communicate with her, mostly in german), have some physical contact.

if the stimmung was right and the juices were flowing again you could book a follow up session to continue the interaction. it was close to like spending an afternoon or evening with a girlfriend almost without any time limits.

picture yourself on a couch with a nude woman draped over you while you nonchalantly make small talk.

a couple of years ago they dropped the post-session. these were the only clubs i am aware of of which had post-sessions. even the mighty bernds never offered them.

all the girls kissed, were always nude except for footwear and had very few restrictions. and at their prime, you could not go wrong at these clubs. the owner practiced a clear editorial point of view and selected who worked there, enforced a strict service orientation.

it took getting ripped off once for me to drop these clubs from my list.

if you understand that my expectations for a club visit were set by this experience, clubs which don't offer couch preliminaries and post-session interactions provide a less than satisfactory experience in my mind.

nowadays only a handful of clubs offer couch preliminaries. none offer post-session interactions (by this i mean as part of their standard service offering). and kissing is becoming more and more non-standard.

combine this with having to watch out for burn 'em and churn 'em girls and you have to ask yourself whether we are facing the decline of civilization.

[Akibono]

The best source for driving directions and maps on the net is the viamichellin site. They are available in several languages and are quite explicit in their driving directions as well as distance and time. They even give the approximate cost for gas. The maps are interactive which let you zoom in on an area. The maps which I printed out saved me alot of time on my last trip to GT and the ETAP in Willich.