FKK Oase - Burgholzhausen

[Mursenary]

Esther and Ivonna are currently advertising on Ladies in Darmstadt as privates. Whether it be inside the club or as privates, I imagine that some WGs prefer doing three one-hour rooms for 450 as opposed to 5-6 one hour rooms for 500-600. Yes, their total take-home would be less, but it's the WG equivalent of work-life balance and prevents mental and physical burnout. And ofc, there is the satisfaction that they are not "lowering their value."

Which brings me back to my main point, if girls want to charge incall rates, let them do that in private venues. In the club, you're in a general-use room that's rented by the 30 minutes. You can see the girl you roomed with fucking a half dozen dudes after you. She's providing a common-property / general-use experience due to the lack of an exclusive / private atmosphere.

Why should one pay private prices for a common property / general use experience? Furthermore, in the clubs, the girls are provided safety and a social atmosphere for some semblance of mental health. In privates, they are working in solitude and risk meeting a dangerous / violent client. The higher rates would help assuage the threat to personal safety such as a client taking their money while still sexually having their way with them (actual realities of the girls working hotel rooms and privates).

So fuck that. I'm not a Cheap Charlie, but I sure as hell am not a fan of not getting a good deal.

[McAdonis]

But on closer inspection, the young "bearded" clients dominate the scene. They are hardly the biggest spenders which leads me to believe that this level of pricing cannot sustain itself. Girls themselves complain that they aren't making any money despite a packed room of men.

Despite seeing the club packed to capacity, I did not notice room waits or WGs long-rooming whales. But to be fair, I have not logged many visits during the pandemic era.

I know I am doing less rooms at Sharks. In 2014, I was consistently doing 3-4 rooms every visit. By 2018-2019, I was doing 1-2 rooms. My net worth and income increased, yet my total spend was cut in half. Point is when I see value, I spend more. When I don't, I buy only what I need (1-2 pops).

Returning back to the present: even if mongers are rooming less, just the fact that the club is full, offers the WGs hope, and it gives them the confidence to stick to their 150 per 60 min pricing. When you offer legacy pricing of 100 for 60 minutes or 200 for 120 minutes, she could brush you off (especially if you are not the type who logs 80 visits per year or she does not recognize you as someone who has exhibited whale behavior with other WG). Because all she sees is a club full of men, and the possibility that she can catch a bigger fish than you. These WGs are eternally optimistic, just watch how many get addicted to gambling on those slot machines: she's convinced that she will hit the jackpot today, but she won't be able to catch her whale if she lets you occupy her time!

You can even see girls leaving as the late night crowds arrive. It's not a question of if, but when, many girls explore other venues.

Esther and Ivonna are currently advertising on Ladies in Darmstadt as privates. Whether it be inside the club or as privates, I imagine that some WGs prefer doing three one-hour rooms for 450 as opposed to 5-6 one hour rooms for 500-600. Yes, their total take-home would be less, but it's the WG equivalent of work-life balance and prevents mental and physical burnout. And ofc, there is the satisfaction that they are not "lowering their value."

[McAdonis]

While upselling could be a reason, I think the rapid increase in Sharks customers at that time was due to 2 other reasons. Firstly, Oase after the building expansion decided to recoup money through the restaurant by limiting to one free meal. The girls who lived-in took breakfast as they were hungry when they woke up, which meant that they had to spend money on dinner. They were also being compulsorily charged for wifi. Some girls told me that they had thus to upsell to try to cover the increased costs. Many Oase girls and their customers flocked to Sharks as a result of the meal constraint. I for one grew tired of having pasta/pizza every evening. Secondly, World started micromanaging the working time of their girls. Many of them then flocked to Sharks The shortage of girls in World then resulted in even tighter schedule controls leading to more departures. With the ever depleting line up, a large number of World customers switched to Sharks as their primary club.

Thanks for the background TBH I may have converted from Oase to Sharks before all these developments.

All the WGs I went with at Sharks were from smaller regional clubs or fresh-off the bus. The WGs who had large followings were Sandra, Roxana, and I think Mandy came 1-2 years later. I never went with them, but to my knowledge, Sharks was their first Hessen big-five club. Had they been refugees from another club, any one of them could bring 50+ customers with them. Off-topic but, I remember a time when Roxana barely knew English, so that was definitely the period before the English-speaking tourists arrived.

Oase management gave WGs carte blanche to shark with impunity. Surely that extra 200 EUR of earnings per day offsets paying for wifi and a dinner? I believe I soured on Oase around 2014 or earlier. During 2015 and 2016, I may have only attended Oase 1-2 times a year. And the last time I set foot in Oase was definitely before the 2017 laws. The crowds continued and the sharking intensified, even after I stopped attending, based on what I heard and read.

[The Cane]

Not so sure I agree. I think the girls already completely know the hierarchy and who the top girls are versus second tier etc. They've known since middle school. And yet the second tier girls are asked to hold the line on price and charge same as top tier girls. And by supporting the cartel they are under cutting their ability to make proper money. Let the top girls have the whales. Let the second tier girls have the dolphins.

Guess it's all a scholastic argument anyhow. I'll just keep going and pay what I pay. And others what they pay and then we'll argue about it and fuck some more anyhow. LOL.

It's not what the girls know Steve. It's how that knowledge is presented to other people and the world around them. There may be some informal "pricing order," but how is that being made known to buyers? I think Mursenary has the correct understanding of human emotion here. It's not what the girls know. It's what the mongers know, and how they found that out. By one girl announcing she's a cheap piece of ass while another announces she's prime pussy? Maybe some mongers would like that, but I don't believe most women would.

[Sirioja]

Foods were always free since I discovered Oase on end of June 2014. Only pizzas were not free but became on 2019. On 2015, regular girls started to upsell and level fell except on 2019 when Oase was my best casting seen, but new beauties didn't stay for long. Sharks had only around 40 girls when I discovered on February 2014 and nothing exceptional, more numerous and prettier girls at World until June 2014. Isabella moved from Oase on 2013 to Sharks on beginning of 2014 then World on April until June when she disappeared of Hessen. On 2015 , World started to fall, same for Oase and Sharks started to grow, but not so many World or Oase girls moved to Sharks. Since then, business is at Sharks, long time Oase girls killing upselling their business even few can get good business, but most often empty except taking sun in the garden. When 100 girls at World on Saturdays 2010/2011, around 200 on some Fridays / Saturdays on end of 2016/2017 at Sharks. Less after. After emptying balls, business don't seem so exceptional on September at Sharks, maybe why casting fell, but had really good visits on this Summer with many for 100/60 rooms and never heard about 200. Casting was low on my 2 Oase visits.

[TankTank123]

Back in 2013, Oase was the undisputed king of Hessen. Between 2012-2014, Sharks was empty. When upselling spread like a cancer at Oase, the mongers slowly migrated to Sharks over the course of 3-5 years.

While upselling could be a reason, I think the rapid increase in Sharks customers at that time was due to 2 other reasons. Firstly, Oase after the building expansion decided to recoup money through the restaurant by limiting to one free meal. The girls who lived-in took breakfast as they were hungry when they woke up, which meant that they had to spend money on dinner. They were also being compulsorily charged for wifi. Some girls told me that they had thus to upsell to try to cover the increased costs. Many Oase girls and their customers flocked to Sharks as a result of the meal constraint. I for one grew tired of having pasta/pizza every evening.
Secondly, World started micromanaging the working time of their girls. Many of them then flocked to Sharks The shortage of girls in World then resulted in even tighter schedule controls leading to more departures. With the ever depleting line up, a large number of World customers switched to Sharks as their primary club. There were days with almost 200 girls in Sharks, and with such competition, upselling was not possible.
Some time later Oase went back to unlimited free meals, while World introduced slightly more flexibility for the girls, but the damage had been done, and they could not stop the growth of Sharks. Of course, one cannot foreclose Sharks doing something stupid in the future.

[Steve 9696]

But think about it from the girls' point of view though. Do you think that they want to walk around with different colored wristbands indicating that some of them are "luxury" while others are cheap "beaters"? May work well with inanimate objects like cars, but not so much with people with emotions and feelings looking to compete for business and make some money.

Not so sure I agree. I think the girls already completely know the hierarchy and who the top girls are versus second tier etc. They've known since middle school. And yet the second tier girls are asked to hold the line on price and charge same as top tier girls. And by supporting the cartel they are under cutting their ability to make proper money. Let the top girls have the whales. Let the second tier girls have the dolphins.

Guess it's all a scholastic argument anyhow. I'll just keep going and pay what I pay. And others what they pay and then we'll argue about it and fuck some more anyhow. LOL.

[Mursenary]

Mongers who post to forums are the one percent Mongers. We prioritize mongering. And in general, "pretty girls" are significantly more important to us than they are to casual mongers.

Back in 2013, Oase was the undisputed king of Hessen. Between 2012-2014, Sharks was empty. When upselling spread like a cancer at Oase, the mongers slowly migrated to Sharks over the course of 3-5 years. What makes you think history could not repeat itself and a competing Hessen club could take the crown back?

Again, a lot of these young bearded guys I would guess have a social life. They are not middle-aged bachelors who spend all day reading sex forums. These guys are not aware that market conditions have improved at Mainhattan (based on

I share your assessment that both the forum here does not paint the entire picture and that the market is in flux.

Sharks has benefited from being the only major show in town this past summer with the most girls and thus the most clients. This led to a positive feedback situation where as word got out that Sharks was busy, more girls from other clubs migrated to Sharks, which led to more clients. Add the scarcity of girls currently working and you get the current situation at Sharks.

But on closer inspection, the young "bearded" clients dominate the scene. They are hardly the biggest spenders which leads me to believe that this level of pricing cannot sustain itself. Girls themselves complain that they aren't making any money despite a packed room of men. You can even see girls leaving as the late night crowds arrive. It's not a question of if, but when, many girls explore other venues.

Add that Sharks management openly refuses to cater to the Middle Eastern vibe (not changing the music, not allowing Shisha,) the market is open for other clubs to seize the party crowd looking for a different ambiance. Just before COVID, the clientele in discussion packed Oase, filled the lounge with Shisha, the girls there partied with them, etc. The same scene has not been replicated at Sharks to keep these guys coming indefinitely. The recent good reports of Mainhattan suggests that girls are adapting or perhaps even forced to adapt by the management of other clubs. It's inevitable that the crowds will tire of visiting the same club and will surely explore other venues. If these clubs provide a more catering ambiance where the girls charge more competitive prices, well, we can see a market rebalance.

Now this will rely on a large influx of girls returning to Germany to supply competing clubs, which is possible that we may not ever see.

Point is, I will not judge the future of the FKK scene and the pricing structure based on current market conditions. Too much is in flux and from what I've noticed, both Germans and Romanians are slow to adapt. Point is, it's a bit too early to make declarations that what we are observing in Hessen will be the situation 6 months from now. Hell, it's possible that an Alpha Zulu variant can come along and shut the whole damn thing down again and we're back at square one.

[McAdonis]

The acid test is the line up. If the girls are pretty enough, the boys will come. With their cash and ready to spend it. Been proven many times over and very much what has happened in Madrid and Malaga in the last 12 months.

Mongers who post to forums are the one percent Mongers. We prioritize mongering. And in general, "pretty girls" are significantly more important to us than they are to casual mongers.

As many have noted Sylvana is busier than half of the WGs at Sharks, but I think most would agree she is not in the top 50 percent of optics, unless one just has a GILF fetish. Optics may be everything to us. Not necessarily true for the casual mongers.

Most mongers do zero research and are not plugged into the hardcore monger newscycle. They tag along to the FKK club because it is a boys night out. Many casual mongers will just attend whatever club they are accustomed to based on intel they received two years ago, unaware that another club recently got a busload of fresh new beauties from Romania. Or another club currently has more favorable pricing. Whereas hardcore mongers will read a report on Thursday night about a "20 year old German top optic" debuting at a club and then drive 200-500 km and be in attendance Friday night.

And the rationale above about Sharks losing its customer base. Sorry - that is not happening. Just think of this. Out of the four clubs I visited this weekend, the worst on pricing was undoubtedly Sharks with some girls making crazy demands (Oase was not a long way behind though). And which of those four clubs was busiest with most men. You guessed it. Sharks - the most expensive club.

Back in 2013, Oase was the undisputed king of Hessen. Between 2012-2014, Sharks was empty. When upselling spread like a cancer at Oase, the mongers slowly migrated to Sharks over the course of 3-5 years. What makes you think history could not repeat itself and a competing Hessen club could take the crown back?

Again, a lot of these young bearded guys I would guess have a social life. They are not middle-aged bachelors who spend all day reading sex forums. These guys are not aware that market conditions have improved at Mainhattan (based on recent reports from two mongers). They may not even be aware that there exists a club on the east end of Frankfurt called Mainhattan (because Mainhattan does not have Sharks' advertising budget). Hardcore mongers read the forum everyday and monitor developments in real-time. So yes, it is quite possible that many hardcore optics-oriented mongers gravitate to Sharks for the reasons you stated: the best optics of fall 2021. But the casual mongers that are currently gravitating to Sharks? It is quite possible that Sharks captures their business based on the brand name and reputation that they established in 2016-2017 as the premier mongering destination in Hessen.

[The Cane]

God I miss the Polish girls. The opposite of stereotypes the inexperienced imagine. Some super hot. Almost all *very* affectionate. Also lots of blonds and pale skin.

Also miss those blonde Polish girls who used to work the clubs when I first started patronizing them. Sigh!

[Neurosynth]

The best times in our clubs was in early 2000, when Polish girls mostly prevailed.

God I miss the Polish girls. The opposite of stereotypes the inexperienced imagine. Some super hot. Almost all *very* affectionate. Also lots of blonds and pale skin.

[BobNSuzy]

I would like to be able to walk out early and pay a cheaper standard price. Do people do that? I remember reading someone has done that. Usually, I am reminding myself of what I agreed upfront.

[Mursenary]

The wrist bands would be so great. Don't have the coin for the black belt? Take the yellow belt instead. No guessing. No negotiation. Would be great to have a "price" wristband on one arm and a "performance" wrist band on the other arm. You can now decide based off her looks, price, and performance at a glance. Guessing I'm just dreaming but that sounds perfect.

Would be curious to see a real world environment where western women would be willing to dorn a garmet that tags her as being worth less than the girl standing right next to her.

[The Cane]

You make some great points and I like your apples analogy and agree fixed price is much better than negotiating and honestly I have an easier time telling and apple vendor his apples are overpriced than telling a girl her pussy isn't worth 100! LOL.
Oh
You are right that having different clubs accomplishes this to some extent. We all know Globe is premium. And it looks like Scandallo on the CDS is headed that way. And perhaps Sharks to some extent as well and thus the consternation.

The wrist bands would be so great. Don't have the coin for the black belt? Take the yellow belt instead. No guessing. No negotiation. Would be great to have a "price" wristband on one arm and a "performance" wrist band on the other arm. You can now decide based off her looks, price, and performance at a glance. Guessing I'm just dreaming but that sounds perfect.

But think about it from the girls' point of view though. Do you think that they want to walk around with different colored wristbands indicating that some of them are "luxury" while others are cheap "beaters"? May work well with inanimate objects like cars, but not so much with people with emotions and feelings looking to compete for business and make some money.

[Steve 9696]

You addressed a very essence of German, or Central European mindset. Of course, we accept the fact that fancier things cost more than less fancy. But that does not prevent us from hating price discussions, bargaining, haggling. When we are buying apples on the market, we want a clear price tag. We don't want to live in the society where everything, from said apples to logging prices, to whatever else depends on our negotiating skills. Of course, there are better and word apples, but then put one in the first basked and others in the other one. And mark the first one 5 EUR per kilo and the second one 2 EUR per kilo, does not matter, but we want to know how much is it.

Now consider a FKK sauna club as a place of relaxation, pure enjoy and carelessness. One of the first things we don't want in such a place is to negotiate for a price. The best times in our clubs was in early 2000, when Polish girls mostly prevailed. Then Romanians came, and the fixed price structure started to break down. Nov, after Covid, it is even worse.

So, how do you think to make your system work? One solution could be to have more categories of clubs, which is in fact already in place. So Sharks, Oase and Palace would be Group A (180 EUR / hour), Artemis, Living Rooms, Goldentime Group be (120 EUR / hour) and some clubs in Offenbach or elsewhere Group see (80/ hour).

The second approach could be girls wearing colored bracelets. Top girls black, medium yellow and the cheapest green. Let's call it Jamaika scheme.

Any other ideas?

You make some great points and I like your apples analogy and agree fixed price is much better than negotiating — and honestly I have an easier time telling and apple vendor his apples are overpriced than telling a girl her pussy isn't worth €100! LOL.

You are right that having different clubs accomplishes this to some extent. We all know Globe is premium. And it looks like Scandallo on the CDS is headed that way. And perhaps Sharks to some extent as well and thus the consternation.

The wrist bands would be so great. Don't have the coin for the black belt? Take the yellow belt instead. No guessing. No negotiation. Would be great to have a "price" wristband on one arm and a "performance" wrist band on the other arm. You can now decide based off her looks, price, and performance at a glance. Guessing I'm just dreaming but that sounds perfect.