Living in Thailand

[GettingTang]

I have had to visit the hospital on three occasions while in Thailand. Twice in Bangkok and once in Pattaya. The visit to the hospital in Pattaya was a rather scary one. They have a few hospitals and the cheap driver took me to the more primitive one. It scared the hell out of me worse. Their equipment looked like something from the USA in the 1940's. (no I'm not that old, but have seen old medical equipment.

I have visited and stayed for two nights at Bumrungrad. Once was for 6 stitches, the other for severe food poisoning, that led to bleeding in my stomach and having my stomach pumped and flushed. (the most horrible experience in life is having your stomach pumped!) I stayed in the hospital for two days and two nights while they made sure the bleeding has stopped. I was treated like royalty in this hospital, the nurses were great, the doctors professional, courteous and understanding! The doctors I had, spoke fluent English (as per my request) and were extremely knowledgeable of modern medicine. The bill for a two days stay, that included numerous tests, exams, stomach pumping, EKG, blood tests, medications, constant monitoring due to blood loss was just $218.00 US! I paid this bill in cash upon checkout and my insurance back in the USA was happy to reimburse me once home!

This hospital is as good, or better then anything you will find in most US cities, trust me! Now I have been told there are some more inferior around Bangkok, but at the Bumrungrad, it was great! OH, and had a few shy nurses flirt with me too! Thai females in the medical profession are extremely serious about their jobs, but with lots of persuasions, I did get two phone numbers!

GETTINGTANG~!

[Dana]

Hey Guys,
I appreciate all the info, but i really just wanted to know if anyone was familiar with Bumrungrad Hospital in this case. I have a place to stay in Bangkok, so that's the easiest place for me to get checked out. I have been to Sukhumvit and Samitiveg hospitals in the past and both were fine, but I was recently told that Bumrangrad was the best in the region. I have already scheduled an appointment, so thanks again.

[Joe Zop]

So the bottom line, as I said, is that you don't know shit about the subject, and should keep quiet. Dana asked for information about a specific hospital in Thailand, not in Taiwan, in a thread about Living in Thailand. (And since you're happy to toss aspersions about the subject at hand -- just how many internationally accredited hospitals are there in HK? Try none.)

Your tripe about drunk expats with needles is just that -- there are plenty of highly capable expats working all over LOS. The discussion here has been about a particular subcultural sliver, and how not to become part of it. Just shows that you read as poorly as you think.

And who cares what you have etched in your brain, since it's all delusion anyway? People in this thread are giving answers based on experience. You've never been inside or even near Bumrungrad Hospital -- lots of us have, myself included. I'll stop barking when you stop posting on things about which you know absolutely nothing.

[James D 2004]

Stop barking Joe, Dana lives in Taiwan and want to use some good hositpals in the region. What I can think of is HK, much closer and ALL doctors are qualified. You are lucky if any of the private or public hospitals there do tourist packages for a good price. Thailand? No offence, but following the recent discussion, what I have etched in my brain is some loser 'expat' male para medics trying to take your blood sample with a huge needle, probably drunk.

[Joe Zop]

what the hell does that chautauqua have to do with the subject of living in thailand? do you actually know anything at all about medicine in the kingdom? ever visited a hospital or doctor there? if i recall correctly, you had a single visit to los, and never even made it into bangkok, getting serviced by some **** prostitute out near the airport. how does that possibly qualify you to make pronouncements here?

thailand is decidedly not hong kong, and the thais are definitely not the chinese.

bumrungrad is widely acknowledged as probaby the finest hospital in the entire asean region, and a fairly high percentage of its patients are foreign -- over 250,000 a year -- and not just tourists but people coming specifically to be treated there. the combo of price, expertise, being the first internationally accredited hospital in asia, the largest hospital is se asia, etc., means that it's hugely popular and the default good choice for treatment in the region. dana, if you need to get checked out, it's simply the best option you've got unless you want to head out a thousand miles or so.

[James D 2004]

LBM, what about the other half of doctors? :-)

Even though all our local hospitals play the game, I'm not at all comfortable with US non-profits. This one want to dominate the world and cut big fat salaries for its management. Independent but then accountable to obviously nobody.

The hospital itself look like it was set up for substantial profit, with surplus capacity for export, while most countries like Thailand are struggling for public health care.

I don't know about the price, but good hospitals AND good doctors can be find in Hong Kong and Singapore. All doctors are qualified to practice in UK and Canada. Most specialist go to UK, and others to US, for training. I'm amazed by what the HK seniors are getting, advanced surgery and drugs. While the US seniors are complaining about affordablity, the HK seniors get the same expensive drugs almost free. The public hospitals get all the advanced toys available - indeed the privates ones are no competition, the private specialists have to use the public hospitals for advanced surgery. Since they are worrying how to pay for it nowadays, the public hospitals are available for private use for a price.

In HK there is only one public medical school. You used to get the best of 6 mil people - it cost you peanuts to none. No one can bribe or buy your way in. You know how the asian kids prepare for examinations starting from small? Indeed middle class kids aren't often tough enough to get there.

HK dealt with SARS with flying colors, despite that buildings after buildings are affected. The Toronto hospitals are barely coping with a much smaller number of patients. Taiwan is in a mess even though it has world dominant semiconductor facilities.

[LittleBigMan]

Dana,

There was a recent clipping in the Boston Globe, written by
Marcella Bombardieri concerning the Bumrungrad Hospital in December of 2002.

It stated that Bumrungrad just became the first hospital in Asia to win U.S. accreditation , from the Joint Commission on the Accreditation of Healthcare Organization in Chicago. Also mentioned that almost half the doctors were trained in the United States. Consider the best health care bargain in the World. Said
bumrungradchief, executive officer curtis Schroeder, who hails from Los Angeles.

Here is some reference: 33 Sukhumvit 3 (Soi Nana Nual ) Wattana, Bangkok 10110 Thailand. Phone 011-66 2667-1000 Web, www. bumrungrad.com

Tourism Authority of Thailand. (800) 842-4526 or
www. experiencethailand.com

Good Luck,
LBM

[Freeler]

TallnHandsome,

The only time that I was really aware of the huge Chinese presence in Thailand was during this year's Chinese Lunar NewYear in Korat.
The Chinese came out on the streets, talked Chinese(!!!) and celebrated in front of their shops and other businesses.
Oh yeah, and they went outside with buckets of water and brooms and cleaned the pavement!

I've never been too impressed with the white folk celebrating Christmas and NewYear. I'd rather not celebrate at all.
I spent my last NewYear in SiSaket and had a bonkin' good time surrounded by cheap wet pussy.

[James D 2004]

This is indeed the most sensible discussion ever on this thread. Let me summarize that many farangs, and wannabes, are losers. Since someone said the obvious and didn't get flamed, let me elaborate.

To move to Thailand only make sense for the obvious people. Those who move there to start a project or to be, say, head of the company in that country. Keep the foreign salary. Fixed term assignment, or with the understanding to return someday to higher management.

Those retired, who want to stretch their money over there. But since over 65 and pussy don't mix well (?), I guess someone retires early. But the losers think they can retire there early but find out that they couldn't after all.

Make sure that you can still have the choice to return. That differentiate between moving from Thailand to, say, USA, and the reverse. The former looks good on your resume, higher gross salary, more competition, bigger economy, higher GDP per capita, etc, and that they need you. If you do the reverse, even if you can explain away that you get a better standard of living, you always carry the stigma that you love cheaper pussy. If you don't have the choice to return, you are not in the bargaining position.

And remember things change. If you spend 10 years in a local company, you expect to be a manager of some sort, somebody need to do it. But in a foreign country it's hardly the case. If you are a professional, you want some professions that is much more in demand if you have 10 more years of experience. I'm not so sure about teaching. Say if you get $2000 USD per month, and assume the cost of living is low. Will you take it long term without much change in real terms? Cause it's not difficult to make that sort of money net in US, Europe and most of Asia. Also for the cost of living you have to also consider your assets. Say in good times, when you retire and sell your flat in HK or Tokyo, you can possibly buy up a block in SGV, LA.

Not so long ago in HK, the govt threw a lot of money to build a world class technology university. The salary of professors used to be high, but this time that is really high because they fight a lot with other universities who in turn fight with the industries during the tech boom. For the expat they would not be able to afford decent housing and so it's provided, comparable to say US standards, which cost a fortune. All is good until they find out that the student intake is the poorest among the local top ones. They forget that HK students are a bit like the ones in developed countries, they don't want difficult things like tech when there are plenty of other opportunities. Later the govt got poor. Even if the professors keep their jobs, and that they keep their salary while others staff reduce theirs, they lack behind compare to if they didn't come. The one that can go go. After all, if you have research results to show for the time and money you consume, anywhere is the same. For those that bet on moving higher up in 'management', there's just no openings. Indeed they are going to be combined with an older university to save something.

One way to succeed is like the Chinese Thais. Or indeed Chinese whatever in south east asia. They are established for at least centuries. Even if you are not skilled, other Chinese are given the opportunity and got preferential treatment by the local Chinese, I think somewhat like the Jew stories that the other Jews lent you money to get married and set up a business. Chinese in Indonesia is 1%??? and control >>> 90%??? of the economy? So if you take the risk to move there, you will be handsomely rewarded. Cause they need to bribe the Indonesian Generals to protect them. Malaysia - no Chinese can own a business outright without a Malay partner, something like that. Since there's nothing like that in Thailand for white guys, or whatever color, take care.

Forget about learning the culture, language crab. If you want to go there, yes, prepare for it. But that's not like you will like Thai culture better than anything else. For the Chinese, of course the Thais can tell sort of Thais one is. But for outsiders, say other Chinese, they can't tell. The Chinese Thais don't usually tell other Chinese that they are Chinese too. Very integrated. So is food. Say Seafood Cove in little Saigon is Chinese style, but the Vietnamese usually say that's Vietnamese. And the traditional musical instruments that the Vietnamese claim on TV, that indistinguishable from the traditional Chinese instruments. The places that the white guys have remotely similar sort of influence are some former colonies.

Remember that most of us want to grow up to be different, but end up not so different after all. 3 bed mortgage, 1 car 1 suv. Just don't put yourself in a sad position when you realize it sooner or later.

[Billy Baht]

Hey Board,

I am a new guy here, so my comments are "humbly submitted."

I have lived in Bangkok for seven months and also feel that one goes through different "stages" in acclimating. And yes, as much as I like the night life, it does get old rather quickly.

I retired early and living in Thailand allows me to live a relatively decent lifestyle more economically than I would enjoy back in the US.

SA, you have some very good tips on day-to-day living in Thailand. I especially like your Korat posts. I have to get up there and personally check it out

I totally agree that one must learn the language and local culture if one is going to 'fit in" properly. It is interesting to have the "immigrant" experience; I can better imagine how it feels to leave one's country.

About Stickman, all I know is that I enjoy his site and on the few occasions that I e-mailed him requesting information, he answered promptly. I also respect his Thai language skills.

Anyway, Thailand is very seductive and it is easy to slide into an inactive lifestyle here. But down deep I know that someday I will skyup and return to the US. Until then, let the good times roll

I very much enjoy the board and information exchange!

BB

[Vchip]

Dana,

Have never used Bumrungrad Hospital myself but it has an excellent reputation and many people go there from other countries (including the USA) because of its quality care and relatively inexpensive costs. Its web site is: www.bumrungrad.com/

[Dana]

Great post from S.A. as usual. I always agree with your posts! They're usually pretty damn funny too. Anyway, it seems as though you've made the best of living in Thailand. Hopefully the quality of teachers is better there than it is in Taiwan. I get offered english teaching jobs all the time here just because I'm a white American foreigner. You can probably tell from my posts that I wouldn't be a very good english teacher! hahahah. One good thing here is you don't see too many of those "disheveled looking farangs" stumbling around. I guess it's because the Taiwanese women are so ugly and prudish that no man would ever move here just for that.

one more important thing, can someone email me offline that knows anything about Bumrungrad hospital in Bangkok? I need to have some things checked out very quickly, and I was told that place was one of the best facilities in Asia.
danaguess@hotmail.com

[Dana]

Ok ok, I get why you think that Stickman guy is a fool. I do think there is some good info on his site regardless.
Anyway, Thailand is only a one hour flight for me, so I go there all the time. I'm not sure if I'd even want to live there to be honest. I wouldn't even consider it unless I had at least a few hundred thousand dollars saved up. Also, there are too many homeless-looking loser farangs everywhere! It makes me cringe everytime I see one of these sloppy old fools walking down the street hand-in-hand with a teenage bargirl.

Actually, now that I've been living in Asia for a few years the thing I dislike more than anything else are the unfriendly ex-pats(maybe I've become one, hehe). It's like they think it's their turf, and any other foreigner is screwing it up for them. They act like jealous girls. I can't tell you how many times I've been given the cold shoulder after having gone up to a foreigner over here and tried to make friends. It just happened several times in Jakarta last week!

I will say that you are pretty much right about english teachers. Most of them don't have any qualifications to teach anything, and show fake degrees and certs to get a job. I don't think I've even met anyone here who actually had ever taught before. I met one teenage guy in Taipei who dropped out of high school because he was a heroin addict. He did quit doing herion(thank god), but he came to Taiwan with a fake degree, and now he's teaching.

Your comment "Come to Thailand and enjoy. And go home!" left a bit of a sour taste also. I'd say, "Come to Thailand and enjoy. Stay and have a great life if you think you can pull it off."

[Freeler]

Dana,

Stickman to me is a fool because of his lack of understanding of Thailand outside BKK, as Skinless pointed out in the OtherAreas section a while ago.
No bars, no gogo's and Stickman is lost.
Stickman is still stuck in BKK.

Of course there are many types of expats, much like there are many types of people in general. But somehow Mr. Dumbass who accidently went somewhere and got stuck is the most visible to us. Most visitors will never meet Mr. ReallySuccessful, simply because he has other things to do than screwing cheap ho's in Nana.
Or much cheaper ones in Korat!
I'm still trying to figure out who is the most pathetic of the lot: Barowner or 'English teacher'? This may take a few more trips.

Come to Thailand and enjoy. And go home!

[Joe Zop]

This is the most sensible discussion on this issue in a long time. I've met a lot of exceptions to this description of ex-pats, but almost to a person they're folks who are using the approach described by CheapYngHoLuver -- if they haven't learned about the culture before they got there they've immersed themselves while there. They know the language and culture, and many have as many or more Thai friends than farang friends, and not just bar girls. I mean, why move anywhere if you're not interested in doing that? I wouldn't move to another part of the States and not expect to learn all about the regional nuances. Skinless, the problem with a fool's pardon is that fools expect it all the time, looking at it as the rule as opposed to the exception.

And Dana, I'd not lay it down to Asia -- I've heard the same thing from ex-pats in Africa and in places in the Caribbean, often even among those with skills and income. It's one of the natural stages of acclimating to a country, and you see it in immigrants to the USA as well -- I used to see it in foreign grad students, and received training on how to deal with it. According to the trainers I dealt with, the stages tend to go: amazement and kid-in-a-candy-store behavior, belief in the superiority of the new place, homesickness and missing familiar patterns, disillusion with the new place and a belief in the superiority of the old, and, finally, resolution by gaining a sense of balance and perspective, and acclimation. Any given person can get stuck anywhere in the sequence, and plenty don't make it all the way through.