Living in Thailand

[Jungle Bluebird]

Living costs, Thailand.

Need to differentiate here. 3 groups.

Tourists who stay a few weeks
Expats who stay a few month/years but do not commit. Ie. no furniture, car, condo etc..
Expats who do commit. Buy a car, may get married, kids etc.. and yes who do rent or buy a decent condo.

Prices: I am referring to the need of expats who do commit. Living here for many years I do eat Thai food, sometimes. Mostly I do enjoy western food. I do drive a car, own a condo etc.. Even without owning a condo rents are about THB 40-80,000 per month for a decent property. That is what you pay in Europe or the US.

Gasoline is about the same now in Thailand as in the US. Europe is more expensive. But you get better roads overseas. Insurance is cheaper in Thailand for Japanese cars. Mercs/Beamers etc.. just about the same as overseas.

Cars! Japanese cars sold in Thailand are in general sub standard compared to same makes in the western world. Door seals, brakes etc.. are local made and lousy. Name brands suffer loads of quality problems as well as imported in kits and assembled in Thailand. Plus roads are in such bad shape that driving is no fun in Thailand.

Girls. Ok, Thai girls are sweet but... P4P yes, that is certainly more expensive in the US/Europe. However non P4P, with a bit of money, living in the US/Europe should be no problem.

Thing is when you want more then average from life in Thailand, one discovers quickly that just about everything is sub standard, despite being more expensive. Add the low life quality in Bangkok, pollution, traffic, plus the lack of proper parks, then life becomes indeed quite expensive. Another aspect one forgets is that being daily confronted with poverty and depressed economic outlook on life, one naturally adjusts. Not always for the better.

But hey... each his own.

JB

[Old Thai Hand]

Last time I checked, Thailand was a nett exporter of food.

Yet, Thai food for export and of course western food is expensive here and most Farang that live here tire of Thai food after awhile. It starts to taste all the same, if you've been eating it for as long as I have. I still eat it every day. But, at home it's strictly a Mediterranean diet which, BTW according to a number of studies is the healthiest diet on the planet.

All major brands have their clothes manufactured in Thailand.

Yes. But, in stores at Emporium, Paragon or at Central, you pay western prices for clothes with labels that say, "Made in Thailand". As I said, I buy factory over-runs at The Export Shop which has all the name brands at a fraction of the cost.

Thailand is home to many car manufacturing plants.

Again, true. But, this definitely does not translate into cheaper cars. The cars manufactured here are all for export and those for sale are all imported, even those (strange as it may seem) that are manufactured here.

In Thailand a clean, decent hotel room starts at B250/day.

Where in Bangkok, could you get a decent hotel room for 250B/day? Even in bargain-basement Pattaya, a good room will be close to 1000. But, I guess it depends on what you'll put up with. Personally, I like a modest amount of luxury. Aircon a bed and a shower doesn't quite cut it for me.
Anyway, we're talking about living accomodation, not hotels. A decent 1-br condo in Bangkok depending on location will start at 12,000/month (maybe way out around Ladprao, or Rangsit) to 30,000+ along Sukhumvit. I only pay 20,000 and I'm near Asoke. But, that's because I rented privately directly from the owner. Normally in this area it would be a lot more. I recall that Jungle Bird pays something like 80,000 for his place. It's all about quality and location, like anywhere else. It's true that there's a glut of small, 1-room studios with basic amenities for as low as 2,000/month. So, sure you can live like a poor Thai office worker. But, who wants to do that? Trust me. Opebos rants about how he lives modestly are really the exception. While most Farang English teachers live in crappy little rooms so out of the way that they have to take several of those dirty non-air buses to get to their jobs, they surely would kill for something better.

Half decent rooms in Europe start at B1,500/day.

Well, generally true. Although last summer, I had a nice apartment in Milan near the centre of the city for 2 weeks for about 25 Euros/day.

Thai cuisine is amongst the best on the planet - if not the best.

In theory, Thai food is healthy. But, in reality it's not. There's a high incidence of heart disease and cancer here (not caused by MacDonald's either). Most of this disease is upcountry where people eat only Thai food. For example, Pra-ra, the quintessential Isaan food has been linked to stomach cancer. My ex-GF's father died of it and years of eating huge amounts of pra-ra was probably the main cause of his death. The type of cooking oil Thais use is full of impurities. Since a large amount of their food is stir-fried, those impurities get into the food. Add to that the fact that street vendors re-use oil over and over again, then the amount of carcinogenics in your food is quite high, not helped by huge amounts of exhaust fumes and pollution. Thai cooking also contains a lot of processed sugar and msg. While jasmine rice is ok, white rice is not good for you. It has very little nutritional value.
Personally, I eat salad and vegetables most of the time, when I'm at home. I tend to cook a lot and mostly Mediterranean food. I eat imported black olives, olive oil, and feta cheese all which are expensive. Good vegetables, especially organically grown are also expensive. Go shopping for produce at Villa, Emporium or even Carrefour and you'll see what I mean. I spend on average about 2,000/week on groceries and that's just for me. If I go out, I only eat at restaurants which, through the experience of living here so long I know have good quality food. Opebo is 100% wrong here in his assertion that street vendors have food as good as restaurants. The best Thai restaurants, like Blue Elephant, Papaya, or Vientinne Kitchen, for example are far superior to anything on the street. Noodle dishes at Noodle House in Siam Square are among the best I've ever tasted in this country. Even MK Suki, which isn't all that cheap is far better than street food. Street food generally sucks. Thais eat it because it's cheap and plentiful. I've heard lots of complaints from Thai friends about street food. But, the cost and the amount you get can't be beat. Given a choice, though I think they'd rather eat elsewhere. That Farang may like it is only because they don't know any better. To them, it's all a new and exotic experience.

I rest my case.

Rest away. But, in the end, despite you having been here numerous times, you're still a visitor and therefore it's all something different than what you're used to and therefore your argument isn't really all that valid compared to experiences of those who live here day in day out - Opebo's an exception because he's plainly a bottom-feeding freak.


At the end of the day, we're comparing apples and oranges. It is simply a different secenario for those who live her all the time. Few Farang who have lived here any amount of time, do so on the cheap anymore.

[Terry Terrier]

I do wonder, however, why one cannot get good wines inexpensively from a nearby place like Australia.

It's not the transportation costs, it's the huge import duties levied: Over three hundred percent on imported wine, if I remember correctly.

[Retired Army]

You bet it is if you want to live a Western lifestyle. I found it difficult on a six figure US $ income. Too many good times to be had. Now that I've moved to Europe I actually end up saving money because there aren't that many temptations and I would rather stay at home. The only thing I do miss is the cheap food from the stalls. A damn schnitzel, fries and beer will set you back at least $30 with the dollar being so weak.

[Opebo]

Not only is Thai food much better than Western food, there is no difference between a 'food stall' and a so-called 'better restaurant'. Usually the worse a place looks, the better is the food.

I will say that I find middle eastern, Mediterranean,and Indian food easily as good as Thai, but nothing in the US compares. The few exceptions would be those ethnic places that one has to drive for an hour to seek out.. in Thailand good food is found all around you.

But of course tastes differ.

Also, why would anyone have to do without air conditioning on the teaching salary of 35,000/month, JB? Ones electric bill using air only runs around 500-1,200/month.

Lastly, I will say that nothing about my lifestyle here is inferior to the one I had at home, even aside from the fact that sex is more available and cheaper, other than of course the annoyance of not being able to easily communicate.

[Member #2041]

Thai food is certainly healthier for you than a typical western diet loaded with fatty dairy products. I like cheese as well, but I can do without it when I am in Thailand where it costs double. I do wonder, however, why one cannot get good wines inexpensively from a nearby place like Australia.

[Freeler]

JB, OTH,

Last time I checked, Thailand was a nett exporter of food.
All major brands have their clothes manufactured in Thailand.
Thailand is home to many car manufacturing plants.
In Thailand a clean, decent hotel room starts at B250/day.
Half decent rooms in Europe start at B1,500/day.
Thai cuisine is amongst the best on the planet - if not the best.
I rest my case.

[PinkPearl]

OTH

Not sure how people can claim Thailand is cheap. I tend to disagree.

Anything of quality is imported. Think food, wine, furniture clothes etc.. of course cars. One can live on the cheap, eat at food stalls and sweat the night away without air-con. But what a life is that.

Min. salary for foreigners to live somewhat decent is THB 80,000 in Bangkok. Looking at living costs and quality of life, the US or Europe is a much better place to be. We surely all have our own reasons for staying here. But to claim that Thailand is cheap is simply rubbish. After all, you always get what you pay for.

JB

The only reason I am in Thailand is because it is dirt cheap. As a foreigner my main expenses here by a mile are hotel and pussy which have been averaging 30, 000 and 50, 000 monthly.

In Canada my rent is about equal for a bigger place, but not nearly so convenient as concerns distance from the P4P scene, security, laundry and food services. An equivalent hotel would be a hell of a lot more. And, if I wanted to, for the same 30, 000 in BKK I could find an apartment far superior to mine overseas.

Regarding the pussy, I would spend 3-10 times as much for similar looks, attitude and service. This represents a 30 day savings of at least 100, 000 which more than covers airfare expenses. After the first month here it is all gravy.

I have no need to buy a car or furniture. Everything I need is within walking distance or a few minutes on the BTS. I don't drink booz anymore, which is a good thing since if I did I'd likely end up in the BKK Hilton. Food and clothes are comparable in price, except in my hometown I would be eating hotdogs instead of steak everyday.

[Old Thai Hand]

oth

not sure how people can claim thailand is cheap. i tend to disagree.

anything of quality is imported. think food, wine, furniture clothes etc.. of course cars. one can live on the cheap, eat at food stalls and sweat the night away without air-con. but what a life is that.

min. salary for foreigners to live somewhat decent is thb 80,000 in bangkok. looking at living costs and quality of life, the us or europe is a much better place to be. we surely all have our own reasons for staying here. but to claim that thailand is cheap is simply rubbish. after all, you always get what you pay for.

jb

i agree with you, which is why i wonder how farang getting by on paltry teaching salaries of 35,000 can be happy here. while i don't spend 80,000/ month here, i do spend near enough (55-60,000 minimum) to agree with your main contention. i don't think one has to spend tons on clothes, though for example and overpay at central or emporium, unless one wants designer labels. i get most of my casual wear at the export shop at mbk and have my shirts and trousers custom-made which is relatively cheap here. but, you're right about food and wine. i can't live without things like cheese and reasonably decent wine, both of which are expensive here. i do a lot of cooking and it actually costs more for good quality ingredients here than it does in canada. while thai food may be the preference for the visitors, it gets pretty tired, pretty fast and i think that a lot of it is not that healthy, even when eaten in decent restaurants - lots of impure oil, starchy rice, sugar, salt, msg and over-cooked veggies. as for accommodation - maybe opebo is content in his cheap little studio room. but, i couldn't stand anything less than a decent 1-br condo in a good location and with hi-speed internet and platinum (if still shitty) cable tv.

personally, i think that a lot of guys delude themselves into thinking they have it better here because they spend a lot of time in a fog of cheap-pussy (and even that's not cheap if you're paying for it all the time) and thus put up with a lifestyle they wouldn't find acceptable at home.

[Jungle Bluebird]

OTH

Not sure how people can claim Thailand is cheap. I tend to disagree.

Anything of quality is imported. Think food, wine, furniture clothes etc.. of course cars. One can live on the cheap, eat at food stalls and sweat the night away without air-con. But what a life is that.

Min. salary for foreigners to live somewhat decent is THB 80,000 in Bangkok. Looking at living costs and quality of life, the US or Europe is a much better place to be. We surely all have our own reasons for staying here. But to claim that Thailand is cheap is simply rubbish. After all, you always get what you pay for.

JB

Opebo.... You keep talking about the fact that you would not be able to make much back in the US. I am curious about this. While a Master's is no big deal in the US, there are tons of people with less qualifications making far more than you insist would be your salary there. Again, is it that you just completely lack any ambition whatsoever and above all are a lazy ****? I think this is the root of it all and therefore totally discredits all your arguments.

[Old Thai Hand]

Traveler

I actually know what Opebo's qualifications are: he has an MA. So, with a Master's degree, he could make much more than he is now, if he would work in Bangkok. There would be better opportunities and more chances in general to earn more which would far outstrip the higher cost of living here vs. upcountry. The problem with him is that he hates Bangkok and insist on working upcountry (I presume in Isaan somewhere), that he's lazy and wants to work the minimum amount to get by. So, his paltry salary is his own doing and personally I'm tired of hearing him moan about it.

Opebo

You keep talking about the fact that you would not be able to make much back in the US. I am curious about this. While a Master's is no big deal in the US, there are tons of people with less qualifications making far more than you insist would be your salary there. Again, is it that you just completely lack any ambition whatsoever and above all are a lazy ****? I think this is the root of it all and therefore totally discredits all your arguments.

[The Traveler]

JB, the deal allowed foreigners teaching in Thailand is an excellent one - 35,000 baht/month is a comfortable living compared to the near-minimum wage job I would have back home.

Opebo,

I have been offered a few jobs in LOS without providing any documents to prove my qualifications with a salaray of over 50.000 baht/month about 15-20 years ago. This was a very decent payment back then but I happily declined because it was chump change compared to what I have been able to earn back home, even though I have to pay higher prices for all items, income tax and social here.

The fact that you wouldn't get any better payment back home is a clear indication that you don't have the qualification and skills to earn more

... Working more hours is not a solution to the problem of low pay.

Having said the above, I agree with you that you can't do anything to increase your income as you obviously lack the ability to multiply number of working hours with salary per hour.

[Opebo]

Can you honestly tell me that you are content to live in one of those shitty Thai rooms for 3,000/month? What a life you must lead!!!

As a friend of mine used to joke (not meant to really be racist, either), "I won't stay here unless I can live like a white man".

I don't find the rooms here any worse than the apartments I had back home, OTH. Have you never seen efficiencies or other less-expensive apartments in North America? They're no better than the air-and-hot-water places here, in fact in most places quite a bit worse (and yes, white men do live in them). My place here is quite new, slick, and easy to take care of. I like it.

A teacher just starting out can do better in the US than $1600/month after taxes in the US. Unless they want to live in the far out boonies. And even your $600/month apt in the US will still be better quality than your hole in the wall upcountry. You would also have health insurance benefits and a retirement plan in addition to your base income, neither of which are available to you now.

Teaching in the US requires a specialized 'teaching qualification', Finrod, requiring a couple of years of preparation. Not really worth it when you consider what an awful job it is.

Do you wonder what you'll do when you're too old and tired to continue teaching up country, but you haven't saved anything for that day?

I presume I shall perish from want, Finrod, unless some provision has been made for me by the State. Seriously, though, if I make it to old age surely I shall have come into my patrimony by then. Or at least so the actuarial tables lead one to hope.

[Finrod]

A teacher just starting out can do better in the US than $1600/month after taxes in the US. Unless they want to live in the far out boonies. And even your $600/month apt in the US will still be better quality than your hole in the wall upcountry. You would also have health insurance benefits and a retirement plan in addition to your base income, neither of which are available to you now. Do you wonder what you'll do when you're too old and tired to continue teaching up country, but you haven't saved anything for that day?

[Old Thai Hand]

the deal allowed foreigners teaching in Thailand is an excellent one - 35,000 baht/month is a comfortable living compared to the near-minimum wage job I would have back home. Look at it this way - one makes $1,000/month, but one's rent is only $100 (or less). Back home one may make $1,600/month after tax, but the rents are around $600/month. Food is of course less here, as well as much higher quality, and lastly one can get by with a motorbike and using public transport, avoiding the huge expense of a car.

First. I'm also a foreigner teaching in Thailand and I wouldn't fucking get out of bed for a paltry 35,000/month.

Can you honestly tell me that you are content to live in one of those shitty Thai rooms for 3,000/month? What a life you must lead!!!

As a friend of mine used to joke (not meant to really be racist, either), "I won't stay here unless I can live like a white man" - meaning he wasn't prepared to compromise to the extent you apparently are in some delusional belief that this is an aceptable way for an educated Farang to live.

Opebo. You have an MA, for gawd's sake, even if it's in some shitty and useless liberal arts discipline. Sorry, you could do a lot better than you are.