Rio de Janeiro - Crime & Safety

[Hojo]

Hello Everyone,

If you are staying at an apartment close to Help, especially on Rua Meguel Lemos or Rua Djalma Urich, be very carefull. There is a team of guys trying to mug people.

Two of them tried to set me up, but luckily got inside of the gate of my apartment building just as one guy got within 2 feet of me. He just laughed because I was able to out maneuver him and his buddy.

I saw these guys as I was walking to my apartment while crossing Rua Meguel Lemos diagonaly. I heard some loud whistleing and that is what caused me to look around. I think they were signal each other. That is when I saw them pacing me. One guys was 20 feet in front of the other. The front guy was trying to intersect my walking path, while the other guy was walking very fast to catch up. At the very last minute just as the front guy intersected my path, I pulled a zig sag meneuver behind one of the sidewalk trees to position me behind the front guy, which put me exactly at my Apartment gate door. That is when I dove into the entrance of the Apartment. This was 4:00 AM Saturday night.

Another guy the same night was approached by 4 guys with knives but he just luckily got in the gate as well. I don´t know what time this happened.

These incidents were at the corner of Rua Meguel Lemos and Avenida Atlantica. So if you think you are safe because your apartment is within 100 yards/meters of Help, watch your back and listen for whistles.

I´m going to try and work something out with the door man tonight. Maybe I can call him when I leave help and get him to wait for me at the gate.

pop till you drop,
hojo

[Macunaima]

Be VERY careful about journalists who probably do not speak (or barely speak) Portuguese, who know nothing about Brazilian history, and yet who make assinine statements like "crime rates have sharply increased in Brazil..."

Sorry, to disappoint, but no they haven't.

Recently, there's been a big bafafá over a supposed 800 percent crime increase in Brazil over the past 25 years. Sure, the stats show that increase as having taken place. But why?

What was happening in Brazil 25 years ago? The military dictatorship. And what was one of the dictatorship's main selling points? That they had restored order to the country. Consequently, violent crime in the favelas was simply off the official radar screen into well into the late '80s. It just didn't occur because the favelas were very well under control, thank you. (And if you claimed that it WAS occuring, you were obviously a terrorist or communist sympathizer who needed straightening out...)

Furthermore,, most areas in the backwoods didn't even report alot of their crime to the national authorities until well into the 90s. So a HUGE portion of that increase is due to vastly improved reporting techniques and NOT due to increased crime.

We've ALWAYS been a violent nation. We're just now getting a better picture of ourselves, is all.

During this supposed 800 percent increase, Rio de Janeiro has supposedly been the most violent city in Brazil. But violent crime has actually gone DOWN in RdJ since its high point in the early '90s. How can that be if there's been an 800 percent increase overall and Rio is the most violent city in the nation? Simple. Most of that increase in national numbers comes from places like Burro Morto Mirim in the Pernambuco backlands, whose mayor's office just got a computer and the county's only internet uplink and so - for the first time in history - can accurately report that Jeca Tatu had a little too much pinga to drink last night at Dona Maria's venda and ended up cutting the throat of his long-time buddy and co-worker, Zé Macaxeira.

[Hot To Cool]

Cachorro,

Again, we have those key words "mentioned in the Brazilian press." Violence, of course, sells newspapers, as anybody who picks up a Mexican newspaper with photographs of horrific crimes knows. What that article shows, is that, if you're not involved in drugs, arms, slavery, or endangered species, you're most likely not going to have any violent crime problems.

Hot To Cool

[Cachorro]

Lennox,

Even if Rio were so dangerous, I don't see why any hobbyist couldn't just hop over to Vitoria or Curitiba, which most would agree are much safer and cheaper. Besides, the providers might even give more GFE.

Hot To Cool

This came up in another thread. In reality Vitorita would not be classified as safer than Rio. I couldn't find the stats on the web, but I've seen that mentioned in the Brazilian press somewhere.

Here's one link (I have pasted the most relevant couple of paragraphs here):
http://www.unhabitat.org/mediacentre...egionalLAC.pdf

· Urban crime in Brazil: Crime rates have risen sharply in Brazil during recent years, largely due to increased organized crime and trafficking of drugs, firearms, human beings and endangered species involving local and international criminal organizations. São aulo, Rio de Janeiro, Espirito Santo and Pernambuco are the most violent states in Brazil. However, homicide rates vary greatly depending upon area and income.

· For example, tourist areas of Rio de Janeiro have a homicide rate of around 4 per 100,000 people, which is comparable to some of the safest cities in Europe. On the contrary, homicide rates can be as high as 150 per 100,000 people in favelas, slum areas only a few kilometres from these tourist areas.

This suggests that Espirito Santo (Vitoria) is not really safer than Rio, but that both should be fine for the tourist who does not venture into bad situations.

Curitiba might be safer but there have been some disillusioned mongers reporting from there in the past.

[Lennox]

Lennox,
Even if Rio were so dangerous, I don't see why any hobbyist couldn't just hop over to Vitoria or Curitiba, which most would agree are much safer and cheaper. Besides, the providers might even give more GFE.
Hot To Cool

I am probably going to be visiting Rio (aiming for end of June) despite it's reputation as a den of violence. The media always makes thing seem worse than they really are. The last poster is right about the Washington Times having some questionable motivations, and as we found out with Newsweek they are not too accurate either. Nevertheless, I am not planning to take late night strolls on the beach by myself or do anything careless with my money.

I will take your suggestion and read up on Curtiba and Vitoria.

[Hot To Cool]

Saw a few stories in the news this week about the crime in Rio. Apparently it has reached epic proportions, surpassing almost any city on earth.

Here's a few of the articles:

Violent Rio a river of blood

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20050...4756-8104r.htm

Rio Run Amok

Brazil's once marvelous city has lost its luster for natives as well as visitors. Can it recover?

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7529006/site/newsweek/

Lennox,

Even if Rio were so dangerous, I don't see why any hobbyist couldn't just hop over to Vitoria or Curitiba, which most would agree are much safer and cheaper. Besides, the providers might even give more GFE.

Hot To Cool

[Macunaima]

The Washington Times is produced by the Right Rev. Sun Yung Moon and is not a relaible news source by any stretch of the imagination.

As for the violence "getting so bad", what's interesting is that these gringo newstories never mention the fact that violence has DROPPED from its all time high in the late '80s, early '90s.

If the violence rate has gone down, why, then, is it reported as if it were the worst ever?

[Lennox]

Saw a few stories in the news this week about the crime in Rio. Apparently it has reached epic proportions, surpassing almost any city on earth.

Here's a few of the articles:

Violent Rio a river of blood
http://www.washtimes.com/world/20050...4756-8104r.htm

Rio Run Amok
Brazil's once marvelous city has lost its luster for natives as well as visitors. Can it recover?
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7529006/site/newsweek/

[Pluto2]

while i had read much about crime in rio and brazil, in many ways i felt safer than in the us in any city after dark.

both rio and sp were heavily patrolled, even more so at night. the sp cops look like the nice kid from next door, the rio cops reminded me of the mean looks on the faces of the new orleans pd officers who scare me.

the cops in rio and sp did not concede one inch of any street to criminals or gang bangers like u see in the us in every city and now many smaller towns. the political leaders in brazil obviously have more spine than the politicains in the us. the only gang banger types that i saw were us citizens, probably pro baseball players on steriods, wearing oversized sirts, oversized pants, hats and lots of attitude shoving people out of their way in help. there were about 15 of these guys in help, most behaved this way. several of the girls made comments about american assholes, and for once i had to remain silent in agreement.

the only scam that i experienced was by a gang of shoe shine crooks, someone threw what would have been a dropping from a hundred pound bird on my shoe, probably a tamarind squirted on while i walked by. i had a 5r in my front pocket, so when the shoe shine guy chased me down the sidwalk pointing at the the mess on my shoe, i thought that this may be an honest encounter. after cleaning my shoe, i tried to give him the 5 he kept insisting on more money, at this point i could feel someone behind me and another shoe shine guy moved to my side with the wallet. i dropped the five in the shoe shine box and moved away quickly towards the cops. i felt a tug on my watch and discovered a minute later that it had been slashed with a very sharp razor peeling the face off of it. i'm guessing that if i had pulled my wallet out the slash would have been my arm and the wallet would have been grabbed off the ground. either way these guys disappeared quickly as i moved toward the cops.

as stated previously, don't let anyone stop you or pull you aside for any reason. i knew this and still almost got my arm slashed.

[Macunaima]

Good points, Rio D.

As for the "minimum year for a gun", that's a proposed law that almost certainly will not fly through congress, not an actual state of affairs. The gun in question belonged to her pimp and pimps routinely walk armed here in Rio. So I doubt it had anything at all to do with anyone's "hardcore criminal" status. Other than, perhaps, the pimp's.

But your other points are very well taken. AFAIK, the main witness is the pimp. His version of the story is that the girl came storming down, pissed off, and - somehow - got his gun away from him. From what I've seen, neither the cops nor the media are too convinced with this story.

As for needing the gun to rob the john, however, Rio hookers hardly need guns to do that. "Goodnight Cinderella" is quite easily available in any pro bar here. Furthermore, hotel workers apparently heard the woman "fazer um escándulo", leave the room, come back and shoot the guy. She left immediately after the shooting and I haven't heard if she robbed anything. However, if she had, it almost certainly would have made the papers as murder in conjunction with theft is legally another crime entirely and she's not been charged with that.

So you're right, we don't really know what happened yet, but everything indicates that this wasn't a robbery gone bad. It could very well have been an attempted scam on the pro's part gone bad, however.

In any case, your advice to pay later is very good. However, my advice to pay what was agreed upon still stands, I think. If the girl involved was a psycho or a hard-core criminal, nothing would have protected the guy at any rate and that's just the risk people take, I suppose. However, if the story the hotel workers and the pimp are telling is true - and it certainly sounds plausible to me - the Russian is now dead because he decided to economize.

[Rio D]

Macunaima, how do you know for sure that the Russian actually tried to cheat the prostitute who shot him? Any witnesses other than the hooker herself? Of course she's going to claim that he attempted to cheat her. It is quite possible that she started the trouble (by not doing what was agreed on) and he tried to get his money back. Of course, you shouldn't try to take back money from a hooker unless you're a hardcore pimp and prepared to do whatever it takes, defensively or offensively.

Just the fact that she had a gun tells you what she was about. I hear that there is a minimum sentence of 1 year in prison for getting caught with a gun in Rio. Only a serious criminal would risk it, or else someone who doesn't care about the consequences. She was probably out to rob the john, and he tried to resist. Rio hookers hardly need guns to protect themselves from foreign men. It's not like there's a serial killer tourist flying back and forth to Rio - those guys stay at home and attack the locals SW's.

Some Rio girls have pulled tricks on guys - such as agreeing on a price in Real, then claiming later that it was supposed to be the same amount in dollars. Or getting the money up front, then and refusing to perform what was agreed on. By the way, guys - in most places in Brazil you pay the girls after, not before.

[The Prince 187]

I have no issue with what Atreides posted. The WAY he posted it makes it clear that he just copied/pasted an article and included the source. I don't think he tried to 'color' the article or "painted the whole thing" or throw in any editorializing. Am I missing something??

I would think that is the right way to do it, and any intelligent person can interpret for himself.

Personally, At75, if you want to post an article that I haven't seen, you are welcome to. I'll ask questions to glean a deeper understanding. It's what reasonable people do.

If someone wants to take issue, see Tyler Bridges.

Darkknight,

I believe Macunamia did not have an issue w/ Atreides75, he had an issue w/ the reporter Tyler Bridges, whom he believes sensationalized the article on 'cops v. the masses'

[Macunaima]

Dark Knight,

I think it's pretty clear that I was analyzing Bridges' article, not criticizing Atriedes for posting it.

As for "being able to analyze it myself", that may be the case, but plenty of gringos I've talked to in the last few weeks don't even know where the Baixada Fluminense is, let alone the fact that the massacre happened there and not in Rio de Janeiro. Given that, I think my analysis of Bridges' fluff piece served some purpose, especially as it was ballyhooed across Yahoo and the only reason it even showed up here was that some people - Atriedes apparently - were alarmed by it and thought it reason to perhaps rethink their vacation plans.

[Dark Knight]

I have no issue with what Atreides posted. The WAY he posted it makes it clear that he just copied/pasted an article and included the source. I don't think he tried to 'color' the article or "painted the whole thing" or throw in any editorializing. Am I missing something??

I would think that is the right way to do it, and any intelligent person can interpret for himself.

Personally, At75, if you want to post an article that I haven't seen, you are welcome to. I'll ask questions to glean a deeper understanding. It's what reasonable people do.

If someone wants to take issue, see Tyler Bridges.

[Macunaima]

Atriedes, Bridges' article is just so much bullshit.

In the first place, he makes it sound as if what went down is a daily occurrence. It is not. Secondly, he paints the incident as if it occurred in downtown Rio when, in fact, it occurred in another city - one situated about an hour an a half away from the south zone, where most of you folks stay when you come here.

Finally he paints this whole thing as if it were "cops vs. favelas" and then conveniently "forgets" to tell his readers that this massacre didn't happen in a favela in Rio, but in a working class neighborhood in another city entirely.

Yes, we do have serious problems with violence, crime and police corruption in Rio. But Bridges piece, far from charting a dramatic development in that scenario, is simply sensationalistic yellow journalism at its worst. He reports an incident in the most shocking light possible and analayzes as part of a conflict which wasn't even applicable in the case at hand. What's scary about the massacre is that it DIDN'T occur in a favela, it WASN'T connected to drug gangs and the people killed WEREN'T in conflict with the polive.

Only a completely clueless gringo, looking for a quick media "sell" no matter what the cost to Brazilian society, could interpret that massacre as something connected to the "difficulties" of the carioca police. Fuck, the assholes who propagated those murders were NOT "poor, underpaid cops, forced to risk their lives in defence of an ungratefull society". They were by and large well paid, corrupt mother-fuckers who were literally caught red-handed tossing the heads of people they illegally executed over the walls of their precinct house in an attempt to intimidate their commanding officer.

Oh, the poor dears.

Personally, I hope the bastards fry.

But you tourist folks will not have to wrry about any of this as it's highly unlikely that during your stay down here, you'll come anywhere NEAR Osório or Duque de Caxias. Just like foreign visitors to Washington D.C. don't go traipsing around the streets of Anacostia or Suitland.