Rio de Janeiro - Crime & Safety

[Perkele]

Very true. Christopherd is wise as always. Everyones has the right to his own opnion, even though it upsets me when somebody offends honest people who deservs respect.

You should appreciate the police invading the favelas. Soon Light will be there charging the "favela rats" for their electricity.

If you are concerned about thieves you should be concerned about the politicians in Brazil.

You are right. I'm concerned of the politicians and I know well that huge amount of the tax money goes into their corrupt pockets.

Just that the difference is that these politicians are not shooting at people, including me (never happened but is a possibility) or downright stealing their money.

I must have come a tad too strong for everyones taste on this issue but it just makes me mad to hear all around how the thieves', drugdealers' and muggers' human rights are being violated now.

To my taste the view that majority here have of favelas is very romantic. There is nothing good in those.

Now, for everyone's relief I will leave this discussion and let you guys continue over this issue.

Take care.

[Phunluv]

I don't want to romanticize the people in the favelas, I'm sure most are decent people at heart, but like most poor people all over the world, there are all kinds of "issues" (social, educational, mental) that hold them back.

As for the stealing issue, it's not such a big deal for me. Heck, if I was a favelado, I'd be doing the same or worse in order to get by.

In order to get by, poor people leach/steal/skim what they can from the government (food stamps, welfare, etc.), utilities, private sector, and individuals all over the world.

Meanwhile, in order to maintain/increase their wealth and power, rich people exploit the poor and use their political leverage to score windfall deals from the government; they also leach off the less business/financial savvy, and try to rip off each other in the private sector (sub-prime anyone?).

Basically everyone, whether rich or poor, is fighting for a bigger slice of the pie, often in ways that aren't legal or ethical. Nothing new here people!

It's just that in more primitive "dog-eat-dog" or rapacious type societies like Brazil, the situation is more intense; especially considering the VAST income disparities plaguing countries like Brazil and Colombia. [Which interesting enough are both popular monger countries, I don't think that's just a coincidence!]

What I don't get is expats complaining about the situation when they surely must have (or SHOULD have) known what they are getting into. You can't control where you were born or brought up but you have some control on where to live and what combination of subsidies, taxes, etc. you're willing to tolerate. Someone who made a serious effort to move to another country has NO sympathy in my book if he's pissed off about "supporting" all the poor people living in that country. It's not like you were invited to stay.

[Bubba Boy]

If you are concerned about thieves you should be concerned about the politicians in Brazil.

I was thinking the same thing, not only the politicians but the elite class. These guys stole so much it sent the country broke in the 80's/90's. It is a direct result of those that are in power that the favelas are so large and impovished.

[Kid Cisco]

I generally learn more from one of Sperto's posts than I learn from ten of the self-proclaimed resident Rio experts.

ET,

You get a AMEN from me I agree 100% !! from reading Sperto's reports over the years he take many risks then I would and I been going to Brazil for decades I take my hat off to him.

Sperto's give a honest view point on Rio and Brazil and places to see maps etc. without asking for anything in return nothing to sell nor nothing to rent and he not asking to be a guide to show you around (like many do) just honest reporting.

Good job Sperto keep up the good work.

Kid Cisco

[Sperto]

All I'd suggest is that if we can either avoid the subject or as much as possible avoid inflammatory language, we can have different views and still exchange information and helpful advice related to mongering.

Very true. Christopherd is wise as always. Everyones has the right to his own opnion, even though it upsets me when somebody offends honest people who deservs respect.

I have heard million times how these fine people from communities are crying how to survive when they have to PAY for services that they have been STEALING for last 20 - 30 years.

You should appreciate the police invading the favelas. Soon Light will be there charging the "favela rats" for their electricity.

If you are concerned about thieves you should be concerned about the politicians in Brazil.

[Perkele]

Before going mental at Perkele, it's maybe worth noting that his is also the attitude of many middle-class and upper-class Rio people, including some of my friends. It is also a problem in the better schools where people I have met and discussed it with at great length struggle to change attitudes among students who frankly don't want to know. Many people living in Rio wouldn't talk to someone from a favela, much less spend time in one. I don't agree with such an attitude personally, but is it worth arguing about it on a board dedicated to mongering? The chances of changing someone's opinion is probably pretty small. All I'd suggest is that if we can either avoid the subject or as much as possible avoid inflammatory language, we can have different views and still exchange information and helpful advice related to mongering.

Experienced visitors whose mongering (or Carnaval) interests may involve favelas may want to exchange relevant info relating to favelas and should be free to do so. If Perkele or anyone else thinks favela dwellers are all lowlife then that is hardly top of the list of my priorities. It's easy to have a view changed when you're paying tax that seems to be ill-spent too. People can think what they like, and I can have a different opinion without falling out.

Most interesting post.

Now, tell me are you mingling with thieves and robberies in your own country? I fail to comprehend why being poor justifies stealing and drug dealing and robbing? Isn't that what you all are justifying here? How would any of you feel if your electric bill would be 4 times higher because some of your neighbors are not paying their rent?
Now, most of you say that there are honest people living in favelas who work and contribute. That is true, there are hard working people there I recognize that. BUT everyone who lives in these favelas or should we use latest term communities, are stealing from everyone whom are paying their taxes and utilities. That is a plain fact.
Why they are not paying is that all these companies providing services, electricity, gas and water, have been plain scared to go there and demand these people to pay. Now, since the police is invading these communities those companies have started to implement measures to be able to get their money for services that community members haven't been paying. Also state is starting to implement the property taxes etc. I have heard million times how these fine people from communities are crying how to survive when they have to PAY for services that they have been STEALING for last 20 - 30 years.
I would be happy as a pig in the shit if I'd get my electricity, gas and water for free. During the summer those expenses run pretty high (for those who do not know electricity is expensive in Rio) because of A/C and so on.

I'm sorry if I have offended you with my view of the people in the communities, but I do not like too much anyone who is leeching on me.

Then to Golfinho, why do you think I'm living in Brazil? Give it a deep thought and I'm sure that you can figure it out.

[Jan 156]

With an attitude like that, why would you choose to live in Brazil? So out of touch in a country where people do the best they can and try to live happy. Wouldn't you be better off in a place where so many people think the way you do -- like in Isreal for example.

Before going mental at Perkele, it's maybe worth noting that his is also the attitude of many middle-class and upper-class Rio people, including some of my friends. It is also a problem in the better schools where people I have met and discussed it with at great length struggle to change attitudes among students who frankly don't want to know. Many people living in Rio wouldn't talk to someone from a favela, much less spend time in one. I don't agree with such an attitude personally, but is it worth arguing about it on a board dedicated to mongering? The chances of changing someone's opinion is probably pretty small. All I'd suggest is that if we can either avoid the subject or as much as possible avoid inflammatory language, we can have different views and still exchange information and helpful advice related to mongering.

Experienced visitors whose mongering (or Carnaval) interests may involve favelas may want to exchange relevant info relating to favelas and should be free to do so. If Perkele or anyone else thinks favela dwellers are all lowlife then that is hardly top of the list of my priorities. It's easy to have a view changed when you're paying tax that seems to be ill-spent too. People can think what they like, and I can have a different opinion without falling out.

[Sperto]

There is talk of police cleaning Rocinha, however, I doubt that very much. Too many foreign nationals reside there.

The Police won't invade Rocinha because there are gringos living there?
Sure...

A lot of the Olympic games will occur in Barra. Rocinha is right on the way to Barra. Rocinha and Vidigal will both be invaded.

[Amerioca]

What the heck were you doing in that part of town? It's lawless at best, last week it was in a war zone. I think you were very lucky to get away without mishap.

I was there with my mulher visiting family. I managed to exit late afternoon, spent my last 24 hours at a hotel called, Stop Time, near Ave. Brasil.

There is talk of police cleaning Rocinha, however, I doubt that very much. Too many foreign nationals reside there. Also, many non-profits. Should they be harmed, it would be bad press.

I agree with Perkele on some point's made about favelado mentality.

Valeu!

[Golfinho]

How to solve those issues, that I do not know but as I said I wouldn't lose my good nights sleep if army and the police wipes them all off. That's what I'm doing to all parasites in my house.

With an attitude like that, why would you choose to live in Brazil? So out of touch in a country where people do the best they can and try to live happy. Wouldn't you be better off in a place where so many people think the way you do -- like in Isreal for example.

[Beach Star]

Just got back from Rio. I was stuck in Mandela 1 for about a week. Daily Operacao with the PM, CORE, BOPE, etc. Three PC raided my casa sem papel (warrant) and name tags removed from their vests. They didn't believe I was an Americano until my passport was reviewed. I advised them that the US Consulate and my brother (PF) were aware of my position and status. They STFU, and departed.

At times, I wish I were a regular tourist...

What the heck were you doing in that part of town? It's lawless at best, last week it was in a war zone. I think you were very lucky to get away without mishap.

[Exec Talent]

Whether Sperto has lived in Brazil or not is not relevant, his knowledge of Brazil is the best of any person that posts here IMHO!

Sperto has seen more of Brazil than most Brazilians. I believe he has a better insight into normal Brazilian life than 99% of gringos that live in Brazil. His knowledge of the simple Brazilian life is way way better than mine and I have seen a lot of favelas and a lot of the interior. I believe he has visited every state in Brazil, how many people can say that?

I generally learn more from one of Sperto's posts than I learn from ten of the self-proclaimed resident Rio experts.

[Bubba Boy]

Its so funny how people who haven't been living in this country for extended periods of time have such an insight of these favelas and people who live in them.

Whether Sperto has lived in Brazil or not is not relevant, his knowledge of Brazil is the best of any person that posts here IMHO!

Sperto has seen more of Brazil than most Brazilians. I believe he has a better insight into normal Brazilian life than 99% of gringos that live in Brazil. His knowledge of the simple Brazilian life is way way better than mine and I have seen a lot of favelas and a lot of the interior. I believe he has visited every state in Brazil, how many people can say that?

[Sperto]

How to solve those issues, that I do not know but as I said I wouldn't lose my good nights sleep if army and the police wipes them all off. That's what I'm doing to all parasites in my house...
I'd love to help the police to fight against those criminals but unfortunate fact is that they won't accept my help...
I'm sure that there are a few people in supermarkets and so as employees whom are from favelas, but that doesn't bother me at all. They work. That's quite ok.

I guess genocide would be a solution that you would like.
They sell cheap machetes in Mercado Popular.

[Perkele]

Its so funny how people who haven't been living in this country for extended periods of time have such an insight of these favelas and people who live in them.

I guarantee that 90% of the Rio de Janeiro population that pays their taxes, water, electricity, TV, gas and other similar things will tell you that everyone in favela is a thief. Those who live in favelas do not pay any of above mentioned. So to me, whom pays all above, those people are common criminals. Period.

How to solve those issues, that I do not know but as I said I wouldn't lose my good nights sleep if army and the police wipes them all off. That's what I'm doing to all parasites in my house.

To Kid Cisco, I'd love to help the police to fight against those criminals but unfortunate fact is that they won't accept my help. So why bother? Just suggesting anything like that is plain ridiculous. Hey, I pay their salary. Isn't that enough?

To Sperto. I've been all around this city and the country too. I' do not fear being robbed or assaulted. I do not wish that to happen, but I'm not actually afraid. I go anywhere I please in Rio de Janeiro and I do not live in Zona Sul. Also I do not have porteiro, since I live in my own house. I hardly ever use a taxi and if I do I usually call to someone I know, not because the security but my friends do know how to go to my house without teaching the damn way.
I'm sure that there are a few people in supermarkets and so as employees whom are from favelas, but that doesn't bother me at all. They work. That's quite ok. But what I have noticed that over 80% of them are women. Favela rats do not even want to work.

You guys make such a fuss that you've been visiting favelas and you know people from there. NEWSFLASH most of the Brazilians will treat you extremely nicely because you are GRINGOES. Look at the whole thing from their point of view. A girl, probably a ho, brings a "rich" gringo home. Family sees an opportunity because they know that another ho got married to a gringo and now they are doing well because that gringo sends money. Anybody who sees another person as a possible source of income and possibility to improve his situation will be very nice. So try not to fool yourselves.... and for those who will come and tell that he has been "friends" for ages and nobody asked anything, that is just patience that favela rats have. They have nothing to lose.