Rio de Janeiro - Crime & Safety

[Amerioca]

The leaders of the Comando Vermelho who fled from Complexo do Alemão, in the trunk of a police car, made this after bribing the police with 2 million reais.

My last night in Mandela 1, the dono of Vila Cruzeiro arrived with his boys. Same faction. Not sure how they made it out.

In Brasil, these are feudal times. There are the "have" and the "have nots." The line drawn between the two classes is difficult to breach. I do believe, should this course continue, there will be civil unrest on a grander scale.

[Ryjerrob]

I remember those arrastões on the beaches in the very beginning of the nineties. A very large group of "favela rats" (quoting Perkele ) rushed the beach stealing, fighting and causing mass panic. Very chaotic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdkFzTJoxjY

I can't imagine being on the beach with something like that going on. It looked really scary, especially if you were just hanging at the beach with your family, and all chaos broke out.

[Sperto]

If you were here you remember when thousands would swarm the beach and run amok...

I remember those arrastões on the beaches in the very beginning of the nineties. A very large group of "favela rats" (quoting Perkele ) rushed the beach stealing, fighting and causing mass panic. Very chaotic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdkFzTJoxjY

[Golfinho]

I did promise not to stick my nose to this conversation, BUT I'm curious to know.

Are you saying that being poor without any intention to try to improve one's life justifies stealing and robbing and any general illegalities? And are you saying that when local authorities are finally taking an action in order to bring these criminals into justice, that it is not justified? All this because what happened in 80's?

Why is it so wrong to expect everyone to pay for their share?

You're raising legitimate issues here. I'm not trying to express an ideological perspective or offering political commentary. Leave that to the bleeding heart liberals and their ilk. All I'm saying is: allowing the hand-to-mouth poor to mooch some free utilities is preferable to having a vicious, hostile underclass receptive to calls for social revolution. Going back to the end of the military government, there were a few years where the level of expectation or whatever the favelados were thinking got out of hand. If you were here you remember when thousands would swarm the beach and run amok, and blocking the tunnels robbing every car. Those little, round police stations are disappearing but there used to be a lot of them for good reason. When did you first come to Brazil to live?

[Perkele]

Better for some; worse for others. You evidently didn't experience the city/country during the late '80s, or else you selectively remember.

I did promise not to stick my nose to this conversation, BUT I'm curious to know.

Are you saying that being poor without any intention to try to improve one's life justifies stealing and robbing and any general illegalities? And are you saying that when local authorities are finally taking an action in order to bring these criminals into justice, that it is not justified? All this because what happened in 80's?

Why is it so wrong to expect everyone to pay for their share?

Its guys like you that make me think that some Brazilians are right when they say that every gringo that gets mugged is getting what he deserves.

[Golfinho]

Are you trying to say things in Rio have got better over the last 20-25 yrs? That's the most ridiculous suggestion I have ever heard. During this period favelas grew at an incredible rate, the favelas today cannot be compared to those 25 yrs ago.

You say its a "tradoff", nonsense, they didn't pay for utilities in favelas then, nor in large parts of the äsphalt areas as well.

Better for some; worse for others. You evidently didn't experience the city/country during the late '80s, or else you selectively remember.

[Beach Star]

If you were in Brazil during the Sarney years and the Collor election and aftermath, you wouldn't feel so bad about favelados getting over without paying for utilities. It's a tradeoff to having them stampede the beaches en masse, blocking the tunnels robbing and carjacking. For anyone who remembers what it was like. Not something you want to see happen again.

Are you trying to say things in Rio have got better over the last 20-25 yrs? That's the most ridiculous suggestion I have ever heard. During this period favelas grew at an incredible rate, the favelas today cannot be compared to those 25 yrs ago.
You say its a "tradoff", nonsense, they didn't pay for utilities in favelas then, nor in large parts of the äsphalt areas as well.

[Golfinho]

Perkele seems to be the only guy that has been around longer then I have been in Brazil (when will you finally meet me in person?)

20 years ago, when the minimum wage was around US$ 30, things were cheap here. With a minimum wage of US$ 300, plus US$ 300 in taxes and social benefits, for inept workers, Brazil is not cheap any more.

Only good thing are the girls .........

If you were in Brazil during the Sarney years and the Collor election and aftermath, you wouldn't feel so bad about favelados getting over without paying for utilities. It's a tradeoff to having them stampede the beaches en masse, blocking the tunnels robbing and carjacking. For anyone who remembers what it was like. Not something you want to see happen again.

[Brazil Specialist]

Now, tell me are you mingling with thieves and robberies in your own country? I fail to comprehend why being poor justifies stealing and drug dealing and robbing? Isn't that what you all are justifying here?

It is a problem, that the drug lords employed a significant percentage of the youth for security, drug running, police alert, etc.

All these people now lost their income.

And, yes, everyone steals electricity and does not pay taxes.

Of course, the major problem was politicians tolerating the invasion of land, and sort of legitimizing the illegitimate. Nowadays, some people BUY favela "property".
The real problem was the mix of acceptance of illegal invasion, and not providing services like policing.

How would any of you feel if your electric bill would be 4 times higher because some of your neighbors are not paying their rent?

their electricity bill. it is interesting, they could afford old and inefficient aircons, because they would not pay the bills.

Now, most of you say that there are honest people living in favelas who work and contribute. That is true, there are hard working people there I recognize that. BUT everyone who lives in these favelas or should we use latest term communities, are stealing from everyone whom are paying their taxes and utilities. That is a plain fact.

what is really infuriating is: if there is a landslide that destroys houses, a desaster, or just the need to disappropriate an illegal squatter house, these people get a nice apartment as a present, from government. Instead of being charged a fine for illegal use of land for 20 years.

If my house collapes, nobody will give me another apartment. People who pay rent for 20 years also will not get a free apartment.

You can see such an example at the Cruzada SÃO sEBASTIÃO in Leblon. A Favela in nice apartments in one of the most valuable parts of town.

Why they are not paying is that all these companies providing services, electricity, gas and water, have been plain scared to go there and demand these people to pay. Now, since the police is invading these communities those companies have started to implement measures to be able to get their money for services that community members haven't been paying. Also state is starting to implement the property taxes etc. I have heard million times how these fine people from communities are crying how to survive when they have to PAY for services that they have been STEALING for last 20 - 30 years.

This will be a serious problem, when they have to pay.

Of course, government steals property taxes anyway. And the electricity bill is 50% or more tax which government will waste for corruption.

I would be happy as a pig in the shit if I'd get my electricity, gas and water for free. During the summer those expenses run pretty high (for those who do not know electricity is expensive in Rio) because of A/C and so on.

and because electricity costs probably 4 times it costs in the US. Mainly due to taxes.

I'm sorry if I have offended you with my view of the people in the communities, but I do not like too much anyone who is leeching on me.

Then to Golfinho, why do you think I'm living in Brazil? Give it a deep thought and I'm sure that you can figure it out.

Perkele seems to be the only guy that has been around longer then I have been in Brazil (when will you finally meet me in person?)

20 years ago, when the minimum wage was around US$ 30, things were cheap here. With a minimum wage of US$ 300, plus US$ 300 in taxes and social benefits, for inept workers, Brazil is not cheap any more.

Only good thing are the girls .........

[Sperto]

The leaders of the Comando Vermelho who fled from Complexo do Alemão, in the trunk of a police car, made this after bribing the police with 2 million reais.

[Jan 156]

Indeed. There's a fairly positive if overall balanced article in today's Economist magazine - find online (I'd post the link but am typing on my mobile phone while reading the paper copy). "Conquering Complexo do Alemão." They acknowledge police corruption but also try to give a bigger picture. Interesting demographics later in the same issue on S.A. democracy perceptions and so on.

[Golfinho]

So, what's the Israel connection?

Please explain.

Give it a deep thought and I'm sure that you can figure it out.

[Tiradentes]

The most wanted and dangerous trafficker fled last week police's invasion .... in a police car.

And those *&%# cariocas are charging over $1000 per night to spend in their gangster paradise for the reveillon.



http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2010...-923181004.asp

[Member #3435]

With an attitude like that, why would you choose to live in Brazil? So out of touch in a country where people do the best they can and try to live happy. Wouldn't you be better off in a place where so many people think the way you do -- like in Isreal for example.

So, what's the Israel connection?

Please explain.

[Golfinho]

I fail to comprehend why being poor justifies stealing and drug dealing and robbing? Isn't that what you all are justifying here? How would any of you feel if your electric bill would be 4 times higher because some of your neighbors are not paying their rent?

the Poor People are poaching electricity! better that than beating down the doors of the wealthy and making a revolution in the streets. Everyone who lived in Brazil in the late '80s knows what that might be like. So, favelados are bought off pretty cheaply when it comes down to it. We ought to be glad they accept their lot.