Rio de Janeiro - Crime & Safety

[Java Man]

From reading Oglobo, it was a Hot Afternoon yesterday, (Tuesday 12/01,) in Copacabana. Bus Burning HOT!! Seems some of the residents of the two favelas surrounding Copa, (Pavão-Pavãozinho and Cantagalo,) have taken exception to the Police Occupation of their community.

You know that mirrored building next door to Mab's? (Edifício Comercial Business Center.) A couple of guys on a Motorcycle threw a homemade bomb at it. No one was hurt. And the police was able to capture the bad guys for a change. Even manage to shot one in the ass! This happened around 3p.

At about the same time, Bob's on Ave Atlantica and Rua Djalma Ulrich, was held up, possibly by a local drug lord armed with a Grenade, attempting to evade capture. He got away with $R500.

Around 6:30p, a Viação Real # 121 bus, (Central-Copacabana,) was set on fire while stopped and vacant on Ave Nossa Senhora de Copacabana, between Ruas Rainha Elizabeth e Joaquim Nabuco, (posto 6.) An adult and 2 juveniles were arrested.

Rio Governor Sérgio Cabral stated they knew the local drug lords would react in some way to the police occupation. Seems to me, he was more upset by the off hand comment made by Robin Williams on David Letterman: "Rio won the Olympics because they sent 50 strippers and a pound of blow."

http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2009...-915004653.asp

http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2009...-915000622.asp

http://odia.terra.com.br/portal/rio/...ana_50272.html

[Admin]

Greetings everyone,

In recognition of his many great contributions to the Forum, I have given Quincas his own thread titled "Quincas in Brazil".

http://www.internationalsexguide.inf...ead.php?t=3095

Those of you who wish to join him in the discussions in his new thread are welcome to do so.

I've also moved all of his previous "contributions" to this new thread, creating a sort of "The Collected Works of Quincasl"" for those of you who are interested.

Thanks,

Jackson

[Exec Talent]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091017/...razil_violence

My friends in Rio tell me that there are mini-territorial-wars going on in the north zone these days.

[Edward M]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091017/...razil_violence

[Poucolouco]

A military police booth located in Botafogo, was attacked Monday night at 11:30p.

Assaulting entire apartment buildings, now this? Is it me or are Rio's crooks getting more bold?

Or are the police tactics getting more stupid? Stationing a lone officer anywhere at that hour without backup seems like the Policiais do 2º BPM haven't learned by their mistakes. That same booth was assaulted in 2006 by 5 gunmen. In an exchange of gunfire, a lone police officer was hit and a pedestrian was killed by a stray bullet.

[Java Man]

Assaulting entire apartment buildings, now this? Is it me or are Rio's crooks getting more bold?

A military police booth located in Botafogo, was attacked Monday night at 11:30p. Police said two robbers held up the lone cop on duty and stole his Taurus .40 pistol.
The cop, who was not named, was overpowered when he left the booth, which is in front of Botafogo Praia Shopping. One of the robbers put a gun to the cop's head, while the other stole the gun. A third robber was inside the car acting as a lookout. After the assault, which lasted a few minutes, witnesses said the robbers fled in a black Peugeot toward the Zona Sul. The officer was not hurt.

Moments before the assault, a civil police officer had his car stolen by two thugs on a motorcycle, at Rua Minister Raul Fernandes, also in Botafogo. Police are investigating the possibility of a link between the two crimes.

Olympics! Here we come!!

http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/mat/2009...-768030561.asp

[Sperto]

I've never been on a favela tour. A dozen of red-burnt gringos with big sun-hats holding on to a giant waterbottle in one hand and hi-tech camera equipment in the other hand. All clustered together in a open army-jeep. Tropa de Gringos on a safary trip... Not my cup of tea.

I've visited many favelas in different parts of Brazil. Normally to visit somebody living there, heading to a baille do funk or sometimes to do some shopping (not drugs, but funk proibido or the latest pirata movies). Favelas are all different. Some are very calm and some others are extremely dangerous. Only a fool would enter alone in one of the dangerous favelas that are involved in a war with the police or another favela-gang.

I guess the favela tours fills a good purpose. They bring some income to the community and also shows that the typical image of a Rio-favela being a war-zone isn't always true.

Many gringos, even those living in Rio, have a very twisted image of the favelas. "Only scum and bandits lives in the favelas." Of course that is false. The scum and bandits exist, but the majority are just ordinary people. The same people that cleans your hotel room, drives the taxi, work the cashier at the supermarket or sell you beer on the beach.

About the video-link posted below, I agree with the comments made by EA and Chris.
Rocinha being a safe place? Maybe the tours gives this impression, but if you head further up in Rocinha armed bandits will make you go back quickly.

I don't want anybody to blame me for getting mugged, therefore I don't recommend anybody to wander of in any favela by their own. Go there with somebody who lives there.

[Jan 156]

Very Marcelo Armstrong, yes. But he's well established and the tour is carefully rigged to impress you with the contrast of known bogey men and the shock of walking around safely in a main street in Rocina lol.

There's actually lots of guest houses and maybe a youth hostel or two in favelas in equally safety-rigged zones where everybody gets cuts and security is guaranteed and yes, those pockets probably are safer than Copa. And you can go to a favela with local friends from the favela (preferably not a garota) or a samba school* and you are quite safe. But there's big differences between these nice safe pockets (where you pay thru the nose and about the same for a b&b as you would in Copa if you know the local owner - ie about $30) and areas that are a million miles from anything resembling safe, especially if you just decided to wander in on your own.

There's also 'voluntary work' holidays you can go on, pay a fortune for, stay in a shithole, and have a nice warm fuzzy feeling that maybe 1% (you assume vastly more) of what you paid is going to help the community as you lay a few bricks or whatever. Even Marcelo makes a big thing about the need for 'volunteers' - until you volunteer (I tried it once - he turned obnoxious rather quickly).

Favelas (nice, tidy, well-connected, well paid-off bits) are business for those taking advantage of the tourists.

It reminds me of a scam in Cambodia. A tour guide hanging out near a monastery asks if you want to do some local work to help villagers learn to read and write. You contribute something that seems minuscule to cover food. He makes all the arrangements. You come away with a nice halo and tell other tourists about the good work you've been doing. But the food cost practically zero. Most of the money went in the operator's pocket. The villagers are paid a small sum to play along and pretend to learn.

*Actually one way you can help is to contribute something discretely - for instance by buying stuff - from a school that is well-known for its community projects. Beija-Flor is one such, even if controversial. Not that their beat is technically a favela but it's splitting hairs as I say so.

[El Austriaco]

Report also notes that Copacabana is dangerous.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...65310#33165310

Well, just your typical report about favela tours. Like always, it seems more an advertorial for Marcelo Armstrong's outfit than a piece of actual investigative journalism.

A few notes:

1) Out of the 750 favelas in Rio (according to the video), favela tours are only conducted in a few: Marcelo goes to Rocinha and a smaller one in São Conrado (Vila Canoas), and the images at 0:20, 0:42 (Rocinha) and 03:46 (Vila Canoas) were apparently taken during this tour. I have heard of another favela tour which, I believe, goes to some in Copacabana (possibly Babilonia). To think that these favelas are anything representative of the vast majorities of favelas in Zona Norte and the Baixada Fluminese, which include some of the most notorious hot spots for crime in Rio, is just plain stupid.

2) The statement by the gringo at 2:10, according to which "It is as safe as you feel in a gated community (interjection by the gringa: SAFER!!!) in a subdivision outside of New York City" is downright irresponsible for me. Unless, of course, there are gated communities outside of NYC that are run by notorious drug gangs that are occasionally raided by rival gangs and/or the police or where the real-estate developers routinely execute anyone that somehow interferes with their business.

3) The guy at 3:10, who is planning on building bed-and-breakfast joints for tourists to stay at, is obviously in Vidigal, right next to Rocinha, also in Zona Sul. According to him, "In Copacabana, you have to confront crime, you have to confront dirt, a lot of noise and traffic, a lot of other problems you don't confront here (i.e. in a favela)". Well, well, well. I won't even comment on the obvious discrepancy with the earlier statement of the gringa living there, who states that trash disposal is the biggest problem, so I can't really imagine it's anything cleaner that Copacabana. I won't say anything about noise and traffic in a place where "nobody sleeps". But how about that: at least, you won't get shot just trying to go enter Copacabana, while this is a very real possibility when wandering into a favela without apparent reason. Quite a steep price to pay for paying much less than staying in Copacabana, I think.

4) The gringa, Erica Robb, says "I don't think the attraction is only about poverty... the attraction is more about violence". So if it's really so safe to stay there, without any robberies at all, with nothing happening... if crime's the real attraction, wouldn't it be better to stay in Copacabana where, as claimed, there is so much more crime???? Now what is it, Erica?

In sum: just the typical sanitized "Robin Hood" romantizicing of the drug lords that I experienced myself on Marcelo's tour. My report dating back to 2006:

http://www.internationalsexguide.inf...&postcount=676

Pictures:

http://www.internationalsexguide.inf...postcount=1161

Conclusion: taking a favela tour is one thing, living in a favela is quite something different. Personally, I think shoddy journalism as displayed in this video, which amounts to little more than a platform for the self-serving interests of favela tour operators and press releases by the drug gangs, might quite possibly be dangerous for newbies to Rio as it creates the impression that ALL favelas are not only places like anywhere else, but actually better. They are not.

[Exec Talent]

I learn a lot about manners from Brasilians. Our manners in the West is far too codified IMO. Ritualistic rather than meaningful. Satisfying convention rather than seeing it from the other human being's viewpoint. I'm still learning. It's one of the reasons I go back. As opposed to other mongering destinations.

Incredible insight. And, free, right here, no need to buy a book. When I am in the US, I spend most of my free time with Brazilians (same as I do when in Brazil). I have found investing in Brazil very rewarding but there is much more. Hopefully hosting the World Cup and Olympics will give the opportunity feel what Christopherd has found.

[Jan 156]

Why don't you give them money? I want to know in order to decide if I need to change my routine. I rarely stay in the same apartment so I usually have different porteiros on each visit. I, however, do give a little tip (20 Reais a week) to the porteiro on each shift as token of my appreciation. I do this when I leave - it might be a good idea to give it when I arrive. I welcome any advice that you might have.

If I can maybe add a story - one night I'm chatting briefly to the night porter on the block opposite Bar Prado where I'm staying (couple of years ago). He's a good guy and is quick to open the door for me if I ever need to beat a hasty retreat from the nutters drinking on Prado Jnr. I ask if I can get him anything - a beer perhaps? He mentions the burger stand on the corner with Castro. He even wants to give me the money (self-respect, I think). It's a burger stand that's so cheap and shitty it would be in a gringo's natural blind spot. But he was really grateful for that burger. He couldn't get off duty and had maybe been dreaming about it. The way you do when you're stuck in one place.

I've tried a more routine approach (six-packs of beer) but it really varies so much on the people. I try now to make a connection and see what might be appreciated. I don't want to be that rich 'scummy' monger who patronisingly helps out the 'poor disadvantaged worker.' It needs to be mutual respect, not a mutual looking down. Failing that, a cheery but gently spoken Boa Noite, eye contact and a smile, are better than nothing.

I learn a lot about manners from Brasilians. Our manners in the West is far too codified IMO. Ritualistic rather than meaningful. Satisfying convention rather than seeing it from the other human being's viewpoint. I'm still learning. It's one of the reasons I go back. As opposed to other mongering destinations.

[Jan 156]

Do you have an answer for these scenarios?

I'm all ears.

Not particularly. But I don't usually have a room safe. If such a harrowing situation occurs, there is some hope that some stash will be found but that a main stash will not be (I'm not for one minute suggesting don't use room safes, just saying don't ever think you have some holy magic protection.)

Your best bets are maybe talking your way out of it (as in the non-fiction book, A Death in Brazil) or hoping something won't be found. But of course, at that stage they might search your apto to the last inch. In one case, the victim was taken to the bank to withdraw all their cash.

The point of the post was to encourage a sense of street smarts perhaps. Not getting into the situation in the first place, developing a sixth sense for who is 'dodgy.' Thinking thru every possibility, taking every possible precaution that you reasonably can in the situation you find yourself, then, knowing you've done that, relax and remember that the majority of people are good and decent.

[Sperto]

Why don't you give them money? I want to know in order to decide if I need to change my routine.

Why should I give money as a tip to a friend? Americans and europeans might have different tipping habits?

I add one more question, to which one you give money or drink ?

If I stay in Rio for more than one month they all get their share.

[Freedom3]

It's not likely to happen, but if you were threatened by a GDP with a weapon in your apartment, or worse, taken on the street and frogmarched back to your apartment to hand over all your cash and cards, what are you going to do?.

Do you have an answer for these scenarios?

I'm all ears.

[Edward M]

Report also notes that Copacabana is dangerous.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...65310#33165310