Filipinas - Opinions and Advice

[Chocha Monger]

It does not matter whether Filipinas are smart or total idiots in the workplace or academia. What matters is that they are very good at fooling mongers into marriage or just fleecing them outright. When it comes to manipulating the average monger via his prick, those LBFMs are absolute geniuses and the Western mongers are the dunces. Many expats end up with their pricks twisted and knotted.

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[GoodEnough]

Maybe I need to dig back into my old books on Piajet. My daughter recently pointed out to me that his models of children's cognitive development, widely used for over 70 years, were largely based on his observations of his three daughters. Just like Freud's concept of female hysteria was based on his wife's hysterical reactions when she found out he was fucking her sister. Gives a whole new meaning to inferential reasoning skills, although I like Piaget's process better than Freud's. PM me if you're interested; let's not agitate these good forum members. Most of them are interested in female hysteria only if they have to deal with it in Filipina tampo.

You're correct, and this is an unlikely (and likely inappropriate) forum for discussing various theories of intellectual development, much less Piaget's taxonomy of human intellect. The only point I want to me is that US schools, at least when I attended them, spent a good deal of time teaching students to infer broad theses, concepts, generalizations from sets of discrete facts. Progressing that is, to use terms favored by M. Jean Piaget, from the concrete to the abstract. My experience in local classrooms reinforces my belief that Filipinos are never encouraged to go beyond the concrete. This notion is buttressed by some old research I once read on the performance of Filipinos on the IELTS.

There's no need I think to discuss this further via PM since we know each other, have roughly similar backgrounds, and would likely refer to many of the same sources. Suffice it to say that, from my perspective, the lack of emphasis on what some Educational Psychologists refer to as "divergent thinking," has larger societal implications as well, and gets to what many members of this form seem to be describing when discussing the intellectual limitations of the young women with whom they interact.

I should add that I'm now officially "geriatric," and so it's been many decades since I've attended US public schools. So what I recall from my education may not be congruent with today's reality.

GE.

[Bushes]

I can say the US is not much better and it depends a lot on the teacher. It doesn't matter what level. The teacher can sink you, even if you are right. In the job market, aggressiveness and ruthlessness and having the right pedigree goes a long way in the US.

Take a look at a movie called "The Young and Prodigious T. S. Spivet" it is pretty funny. I am not sure how accurate the series "Genius" is but one of the scenes I saw while channel surfing was when the main character got recognized for his publications and a representative was sent to the patent office to look for him.

The tacit dynamic of classrooms throughout the countryor at least the hundreds of classrooms that I've observed is total conformity, and total obeisance to the teacher even if she / he is presenting incorrect information. So there's zero encouragement here for independent thought and in fact the latter is penalized. One possible correlate of this set of behaviors is the self-observed failure of the local education system to teach inferential reasoning skills.

GE.

Someone else said "Women teach and enforce values and behavior on the children, and I would guess they teach a softer, less arrogant presentation of self than in Western countries. " I can say for a fact that most elementary teachers are women and I have seen many unfair treatment of male students. Equality only applies if the female students are at a disadvantage. On top of that, most of the female students tend to be less active and tend to be much more articulate than the average male student. It is sad to watch (when an articulate and manipulative female student shifts all blame onto a ADHD male student) but it also brings back memories of my own experiences. The trend I see in the US and international schools is a trend to masculinize girls and effeminate boys.

To show how stupid I am and that I am beyond being taught, I have stepped into incidents, as in deep shit, to detail what I observed. The female mother / teacher / person then proceeds to put me in the same dog house.

[Bushes]

Did not read the sections below, but have you tried doing that in the US? You have a loud mouth high school drop out or GED person throwing up their arms at the impossible requests you make. As in doing "your job". I always have interesting conversations Stateside that remind me I do prefer to live in Asia; in spite of all the problems here.

I would agree with that and it ties in with my comment about India (but this pretty much applies to all Asia), where students can solve problems out of text books but the first priciples and lateral thinking skills are not there.

I'm in China on business and I've suggested changes to a design to something they hadn't done before, only to be told they didn't know how to do it. These guy are professional engineers it one of the biggest design institutes in the country and what I propose isn't exactly difficult and any graduate engineer should be able to work it out. But no, they haven't designed that before so they can't do it.

[Wicked Roger]

Just like Freud's concept of female hysteria was based on his wife's hysterical reactions when she found out he was fucking her sister. Gives a whole new meaning to inferential reasoning skills,

let's not agitate these good forum members. Most of them are interested in female hysteria only if they have to deal with it in Filipina tampo.

Well I can tell from my own observation that when a cutie I was seeing found out I fucked her sister she was supremely hysterical and went totally tonto for a while LOL. Then came back and shagged me 2 days later.

Another was more laid back and joined the next time for a wonderful sisters threesome.

As for the last comment Soapy I would agree (and have experienced my fair share of tampo also although I now ignore it).

[Soapy Smith]

One possible correlate of this set of behaviors is the self-observed failure of the local education system to teach inferential reasoning skills. GE.

I assume you're referring to an informal reasoning process for using information or data in a local context and attempting to generalize what is observed to a broader set of people, settings, and times. Do you think there's a causal direction to this correlation? Is inferential reasoning not taught because teachers don't know how to--and teach only immediate linear processes because the teachers are unable to think beyond the immediate, or do they fear students will offer inferential conjectures that cause them to lose control of the classroom? Interestingly, I have seen East Asians who know much more than domestic American students about how to operationalize statistical inference, but they're nearly incapable of informal inferential thinking or critical thinking. I'm pretty sure this is what Kerrstar is talking about: great mimics who can't innovate.

Maybe I need to dig back into my old books on Piajet. My daughter recently pointed out to me that his models of children's cognitive development, widely used for over 70 years, were largely based on his observations of his three daughters. Just like Freud's concept of female hysteria was based on his wife's hysterical reactions when she found out he was fucking her sister. Gives a whole new meaning to inferential reasoning skills, although I like Piaget's process better than Freud's. PM me if you're interested; let's not agitate these good forum members. Most of them are interested in female hysteria only if they have to deal with it in Filipina tampo.

[Kerrstar]

The tacit dynamic of classrooms throughout the countryor at least the hundreds of classrooms that I've observedis total conformity, and total obeisance to the teacher even if she / he is presenting incorrect information. So there's zero encouragement here for independent thought and in fact the latter is penalized. One possible correlate of this set of behaviors is the self-observed failure of the local education system to teach inferential reasoning skills.

I would agree with that and it ties in with my comment about India (but this pretty much applies to all Asia), where students can solve problems out of text books but the first priciples and lateral thinking skills are not there.

I'm in China on business and I've suggested changes to a design to something they hadn't done before, only to be told they didn't know how to do it. These guy are professional engineers it one of the biggest design institutes in the country and what I propose isn't exactly difficult and any graduate engineer should be able to work it out. But no, they haven't designed that before so they can't do it.

[GoodEnough]

I'm not sure whether this dynamic applies to Filipinos, but I do think they are on average less arrogant and concerned with standing out than are young Americans. Filipino males have a penchant for machismo, but the culture is predominantly matriarchal. Men stand out in government and business, but women hold things together in everyday society. Women teach and enforce values and behavior on the children, and I would guess they teach a softer, less arrogant presentation of self than in Western countries. Many people do get ahead in the business world on arrogance.

The tacit dynamic of classrooms throughout the country—or at least the hundreds of classrooms that I've observed—is total conformity, and total obeisance to the teacher even if she / he is presenting incorrect information. So there's zero encouragement here for independent thought and in fact the latter is penalized. One possible correlate of this set of behaviors is the self-observed failure of the local education system to teach inferential reasoning skills.

GE.

[Goferring]

. This guy argues that domestic students get ahead on their confidence and arrogance, whereas the Asian students fall behind in the workplace because they've been socialized to collectivist values instead of standing out.

An interesting arguement, which I tend to agree with. I've certainly seen a lot less 'dog eat dog' in the upper echelons of business in the east than in the west.

I've heard the same said about why men rise to the top of female dominated occupations like Chefs, Hair and Beauty etc.

Cheers. G.

[PedroMorales]

I'm not sure whether this dynamic applies to Filipinos, but I do think they are on average less arrogant and concerned with standing out than are young Americans..

I have had this confirmed to me by top shelf employers. Americans will take risks and go for it Asians not so, slow and steady and too careful at times.

[Soapy Smith]

I mentioned those Indian born CEOs of US corporations to contrast the lack of Philippine born CEOs in the US. There must be a reason. The size of the diaspora is similar.

There's a recent argument presented by an Asian-American who notes that Asian students get into top universities, such as Ivy League schools, via high test scores. Domestic students, on the other hand, get admitted on the basis of diverse records in student activities and leadership in addition to above average test scores. The Asians then perform better in the classroom, but domestic students succeed at much higher levels in the corporate world. This guy argues that domestic students get ahead on their confidence and arrogance, whereas the Asian students fall behind in the workplace because they've been socialized to collectivist values instead of standing out. A Chinese woman, taller than average, once told me how she often got in trouble as a child for being too outspoken. Her uncle took her aside and lectured her that, "when you're among chickens, you shouldn't look like a crane."

I'm not sure whether this dynamic applies to Filipinos, but I do think they are on average less arrogant and concerned with standing out than are young Americans. Filipino males have a penchant for machismo, but the culture is predominantly matriarchal. Men stand out in government and business, but women hold things together in everyday society. Women teach and enforce values and behavior on the children, and I would guess they teach a softer, less arrogant presentation of self than in Western countries. Many people do get ahead in the business world on arrogance.

[Soapy Smith]

They never seem to lose that childish behaviour either, no matter how old they get. Their drive for success and propensity for hard work declines rapidly once they reach a mediocre level.

I wonder if they live longer. Maybe they know something we don't.

[D Cups]

Hi Soapy,

Good points. You have obviously put a lot of thought into this lengthy post and it is good to hear there are many exceptions to my admittedly biased claim. I hope to find such an educated, intelligent (and busty) Pinay when I retire in PI in three short years. This old dog might even marry her if she'll take me. I am not rich but comfortable, easy on the eyes for an old fart, and generally fun to have around. An aging rocker if you will. Cheers, buddy.

[ForkTruck]

Most MDs and RNs from PI could not practice in USA because they could not pass their respective boards in the USA.

In the USA I dated a Pinay Emergency Medicine MD for several years. She graduated medical school in the Philippines and did her residency at Hopkins in Baltimore. Practiced for many years in USA hospitals in ER and she is very sharp. Only returns to Phili to visit family, In the Philippines I have dated long term a dentist. Also very sharp girl. Cute as hell too. Putting braces on girls that don't need them is her specialty.

FT.

[Engine Driver]

You assume they have degree from reputable unis but they may not have. They could have fake ones. I know this because when I worked and lived in Singapore we closed part of our Manila office and loved a staff member to Singapore. Problem was, when immigration checked her degree to get her work permit they found it was fake. She had bought it from a market. Our internal HR people in both Manila and Singapore couldn't tell it wasn't real.

Not sure I agree with your comments about Indian graduates (engineering). I spent a bit of time there and found they were pretty lazy and generally very average. They were ok if you gave them something to solve that was a textbook problem but given them something that required first principle understanding of the work they just couldn't do it. Sure there are lots of Indian high up in companies around the would but how many actually graduated from Indian uni's. I've seen the cheating scandals in India that have been going on for so many years that now I wouldn't even look at their CV's, I'd just assume they cheated. Harsh but with other options why take the chance.

Yes, you raise some very valid and correct points. Australia outsources the verification of qualifications (for visa issuing purposes) to third parties, so the system is completely corrupt. There have been scandals from within the Australian high commissions in India and and Pakistan where locally employed staff have been accepting huge bribes. Heads have rolled, but the problem can never be fixed in those countries. I would assume that is the normal culture and practise also in the Australian embassies in Manila and Jakarta. Cheating is a normal way of life in most Asian countries, so your assumption that most cheated in gaining their qualifications is correct.

I mentioned those Indian born CEOs of US corporations to contrast the lack of Philippine born CEOs in the US. There must be a reason. The size of the diaspora is similar.

Most of the success stories of Indians doing well in the US have their origins in the immigrant receiving higher education from a top tier US college. To afford the tuition fees and to gain entry to those elite colleges, they would have come from wealthy middle class families who were somewhat westernised back home. Cultural integration in the US then becomes easy. I have also seen how lazy new Indian arrivals are in Australia, particularly those from lower class or lower middle class families. Once again, their attitude is that they have made it just by migrating and therefore no further effort is needed. I personally would not employ any of them.