Living in the Philippines

[X Man]

There was a time when a Philippine education was the best value around. And depending on the situation, it may still be (as Nvslim alludes to).

NV, You didn't mention how long ago your lady attended college. No problem if that is a secret.

I can say that most Phil college grads speak pretty damn good English. Go to the best universities of China, Japan, Korea, UK, and the USA and I doubt you will find so many truly bilingual or trilingual people.

Which begs the question, how useful is Tagalog and/or Visayan....? That's a question beyong the scope of ISG.

X

I have to disagree. My Pinay wife has her degree in Civil Engineering and is way smarter than I with my US college degree. When she got here she went back to school for Computer Science. She was tutoring her US educated classmates in Algebra. She did have the advantage of private schools when she was growing up and a private engineering college. When we met she was doing house design and drawing her own plans.

Slim

[Bob Bowie]

I'm a big NBA fan, but when I was in Manila earlier this year while the playoffs were going on, I had a hard time finding a place that was showing the games. For the record, there is a sports bar in Greenbelt in Makati that shows them. I don't remember the name of this place, but it's on the 2nd floor, go up the stairs from Havana Cafe and turn right, it will be on your left among several other restaurants. I have heard of a couple of other places, but I don't known anything about them.
.

They had all of 7 of the NBA games live on one of the local channels. I watched every minute in both Cebu and Davao city. They started at 8am. They were in Tagalog(with English mixed in) but you don't really need it in English when you know most of the players.

[Finrod]

As an American sports fan, I was very disappointed in the choice of sports programming on the different cable/sate-lite systems. The only regular baseball programing was delayed Yankee games and a couple of delayed pre-season games NFL games. Both CNN and ESPN did not cover much of the American news. One system did carry the FOX news channel that is shown in the US, but that was it for the most part. I was able to "survive" the situation using the Smart Bro for Internet and my laptop to view highlights of games.

I'm a big NBA fan, but when I was in Manila earlier this year while the playoffs were going on, I had a hard time finding a place that was showing the games. For the record, there is a sports bar in Greenbelt in Makati that shows them. I don't remember the name of this place, but it's on the 2nd floor, go up the stairs from Havana Cafe and turn right, it will be on your left among several other restaurants. I have heard of a couple of other places, but I don't known anything about them.

I suspect that English Premiership fans run into the same lack of availability.

As far as the Western influence, scroll thru some Friendster accounts, 99 percent of the girls have at least one account. You will get an idea of what kind of music and movies are popular in the Philippines, at least with the under 30 crowd.

This advice is spot on.

[Bob Bowie]

Sorry, I don't know how to do the multiple quote reply function. I did not mean to say that Pinays were dumber, I just know that the class assignments that were shown to me by different girls, looked very basic and superficial.

As an American sports fan, I was very disappointed in the choice of sports programming on the different cable/sate-lite systems. The only regular baseball programing was delayed Yankee games and a couple of delayed pre-season games NFL games. Both CNN and ESPN did not cover much of the American news. One system did carry the FOX news channel that is shown in the US, but that was it for the most part. I was able to "survive" the situation using the Smart Bro for Internet and my laptop to view highlights of games.

Oh and the fact that I usually had a sexy 20 something year old Pinay next to me, helped keep me distracted.

As far as the Western influence, scroll thru some Friendster accounts, 99 percent of the girls have at least one account. You will get an idea of what kind of music and movies are popular in the Philippines, at least with the under 30 crowd.

[Wicked Roger]

I tried this once and it lasted 2 months. As soon as she said that she needed more money and I didn't give ASAP, she was in LA Cafe (friend snapped cell photo and sent to me) as a non-pro needing money.

I wish you luck, because I know that you will go through with this, because we think more with the little head, then with the big head.
I have been burnt, but if I meet the right girl, I would do it again. Sometimes we have more money then brains:D

Good Luck and keep us updated on your results.
Robb

Robb

I agree with the exception that my big head does the thinking too many times :). Then the little remembers I am being screwed somehow :)

There is a good FR on the UAE thread on this (Dating Regular Girls) by Cool Bear. He lost AED 38000 (say US$10000) so we all do it. I knw the monger and the WG he refers to so it is a true story.

[Darth Sushi]

I'm still pissed-off about ESPN here showing more snooker and soccer than football(American). Boy do I miss PTI, Around the Horn, and college football. But you do have a good point about what's popular here. You're a lucky man to have a GF who likes the same food you do. I just dumped mine for all the deep fried mess she loves to cook. I still get a chuckle when I go to SM and find an entire aisle devoted to cooking oil!

[Warbucks]

Keep in mind that Spain colonized and ruled the PI for more than 300 years. The Americanos did help model their government after ours during the "Remember the Maine, to hell with Spain" incident in 1898 but we were mainly hands off advisers. Their national language has a lot of Spanish influence and the country's big hero did kill Magellan. Colonization by America is an inaccurate statement, for leasing a couple of Military bases is a long way from colonization.

However, my statement doesn't really matter since I'm only here for the pleasure of my purple helmet. PEACE ;-)

That’s true but they are 100 years removed from Spanish rule. Why is news in America news in PI? Why is basketball for a nation of short people the national sport? Why are Americans so idolized in the country? My girlfriend whom I met in Japan listens to same music I do likes the same type of fashion designers I do. Likes the same food I do. Many Thais I have met would be hard press to name one damn American star ,when I am in Thailand I feel like I am not experiencing another culture but another planet as the people are so out of touch with westerners which is amazing considering the amount of tourist who flock there. The average Thai couldn’t tell you anything about America period now that’s what I called an eccentric culture. Most Filipinos I have really not seem anything from them out of the “norm” except their willingness to destroy their own lives for their families.

I have to disagree. My Pinay wife has her degree in Civil Engineering and is way smarter than I with my US college degree. When she got here she went back to school for Computer Science. She was tutoring her US educated classmates in Algebra.

Slim

Thank you

[Nvslim]

Over the last couple of years I have chatted or "dated" many Pinays that were in college or recent Graduates. Many times I have asked to see there school books (mostly Xerox photos of books). With the exception of the nursing programs, the education is a joke. I am sure most average suburban high school kids would have no problem passing the classes.

I have to disagree. My Pinay wife has her degree in Civil Engineering and is way smarter than I with my US college degree. When she got here she went back to school for Computer Science. She was tutoring her US educated classmates in Algebra. She did have the advantage of private schools when she was growing up and a private engineering college. When we met she was doing house design and drawing her own plans.

Slim

[Darth Sushi]

Keep in mind that Spain colonized and ruled the PI for more than 300 years. The Americanos did help model their government after ours during the "Remember the Maine, to hell with Spain" incident in 1898 but we were mainly hands off advisers. Their national language has a lot of Spanish influence and the country's big hero did kill Magellan. Colonization by America is an inaccurate statement, for leasing a couple of Military bases is a long way from colonization.

However, my statement doesn't really matter since I'm only here for the pleasure of my purple helmet. PEACE ;-)

[Carmex]

Wow, I can't believe this question is still coming up. Believe me, I have debated with this question many times myself. And although Western men would like to believe they are in love, saving the pinay, changing lives, etc. , the fact remains that you are going to get involved with a girl from a third world country who accepts money for sex. Plain and simple, you cannot debate those facts. What is the term for a women who receives money for sex in your home country? No matter how you justify her behavior, the fact remains that she made a conscience decision to engage in a sex for money business. Please do not say that Western standards do not apply in the Philippines, because people are people all over the world.

I must ask you this question: How are you with trust issues? If you have any, then my advice would be to save yourself some anguish. Being in my profession, I see men marrying Bar Girl pinoy weekly. My buddy who has lived here since 1986, says maybe 1% work out. Here in S. Korea, it has not always been pinay. The first were Koreans, then Russians, and now pinay. Always the same story, over and over I must caution the men on who they are going to marry, and I always get the same response: "We are in love, She has not been in the bar long, She is only doing this to help her family, etc. " Mostly the fact remains that you have to contend with her having had sex with many guys, some of whom you may even know. If that is not a problem for you, then go ahead and continue the relationship. However, for most guys, this is a problem over time.

My next question to you would be: Would you marry the same girl in your home country? If you met a girl that has sex with men for money, and you were her customer, would you want to marry her? Think hard about that question because the same standards apply. Why do pinoy not marry bar girls? Are they different from you? Are we not all men? Some cultural differences aside, men are men from the last 5000 years.

I have tried to obtain the same in which you write. And after time, the sex/lust fades and you are left with her mind. Most are women motivated by great need, and a man must acknowledge this before her enters into matrimony (sp? ). Personally, I am leery of people who desperately need something from me. I ask myself why the person is so motivated to be with me. If it is not for my great company, beautiful personality, and handsome face (LOL), then I am cautious. I try to remember, she is doing what she is out of obligation to her family (OFW) et al.

If you are comfortable with all points, then please continue. I however, could not. It sucks learning there is no Santa Claus.

V/r

Carmex

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here for more information.

[GoodEnough]

I think you've done an excellent job on the debating front, and you've made some strong points. However, I think there's a flaw in the logic.

First, you make the assumption that because Americans colonized this place, that most of the folks share some cultural/social attributes with us, but my experience is that these so-called similarities represent, at best, a very thing patina. I can speak only for myself here, but I find that the longer I stay here the less I understand about the culture, which seems an admixture of Christianity, pantheism, mysticism, tribal ritual and survival behavior. That is, it's only very superficially western, and if you get into the bush, where most people live, you can feel, at times, as if you're on another planet.

The Brits and the French colonized 60% of Africa and doubtless left the marks of their cultures behind. But to think that most African countries are essentially French or British is to ignore the much deeper influences of centuries of tribal cultures and it's much the same here. There are so many tribes, so many clans, so many varied rituals and practices, that the "Western" aspects of the overall culture represent only a small fraction of the fabric of the country.

Second, when I spoke of the educational system, I was speaking of "education" and not vocational training. Yes, there are tertiary institutions here that succeed in instilling a narrow range of specific skills. This is not the same as teaching critical thought. Try discussing art or literature with an average Filipina and see how far you get. I work extensively with the public education system here and believe me, it's pathetic. I work, for example, with a small number of American civil engineers who manage a large workforce of Filipino engineers. The American guys are constantly stunned at how little their Filipino colleagues know, how poorly trained they are, and how difficult it is for them to engage in any sort of adaptive behavior.

Finally, you say that as a "20 something black guy" you have little in common with other expats. But if you feel that your background, your experiences and your outlook alienate you from other expatriates--with whom presumably you share certain cultural attributes--think how far removed you are from the average Filipino, who shares even fewer attributes with you. I'm probably 30 plus years older than you are and I'm white, but I would bet that you and I would have more in common and more to talk about that either of us would with the average Filipina.

My attitude toward the education system is less condescending than it is factual. I'm not arguing that Filipinos are any less intelligent than others, just that they're poorly served by a totally corrupt system that manages to spend less than $120 a year per student on education while adjacent countries spend between $1,500 and $2,500 a year. Crowding 50-60 kids in classrooms with no or few books, poorly-trained teachers and no resources does not make for a well trained population. Add to this the fact that this is the only country left in the world that offers ten, instead of twelve years of public education, and the outlook for education is not promising. This is not to say that Filipino kids have any less potential than anyone else. It is to contend that these kids are getting royally screwed by a lousy education system.

Anyway, I've gone on long enough. Thanks for taking the time to respond to my previous post.

GE

[Robbaf]

I think in general PI girls would rather not work at home and I believe her when she tells me that she would not consider to 'work' at home.

You didn't say how old she is and how much money is she making there. I tried this once and it lasted 2 months. As soon as she said that she needed more money and I didn't give ASAP, she was in LA Cafe (friend snapped cell photo and sent to me) as a non-pro needing money. Hmmmm, getting paid for sex and saying she is not a pro.
I wish you luck, because I know that you will go through with this, because we think more with the little head, then with the big head.
I have been burnt, but if I meet the right girl, I would do it again. Sometimes we have more money then brains:D

Good Luck and keep us updated on your results.
Robb

[IgoforAsian]

The bottom line is that, even with "educated" women, you're not going to have a lot in common about which to talk. The frames of reference are just too different and the whole cultural context is so different that there's just not much common ground.

My compromise on this is to look for intellectual stimulation largely from my expatriate friends and from my work and not to impose that burden of expectations on my relationship, which could not support it. Conversely, I'm sure that there are needs that I don't fill for her either, and that she satisfies through her work and Filipino friends. No relationship can meet every need regardless of the cultural in which it exists.

GE

GE,

I could not agree more! When I was younger (perhaps around Daddy Warbucks age), I would look for a girl who could fill all needs. With age, and after a few failed relationships, I realize the most important attribute is the presence of a romantic/sexual chemistry and if you enjoy each other's company.

After finally getting out of a long term relationship with a kind, intelligent, well-educated woman who had all the attributes I looked for but was lame in bed, I have come to realize that sexual chemistry is a must and everything else is secondary. Yes, you can hire a maid, and yes, you can seek intellectual stimulation amongst your friends, but once you are getting sexual fulfillment in other places, the primary relationship is pretty much doomed.

I have many friends and former co-workers (over 20 of them in fact) who married bar girls from throughout Asia and they all have been married for numerous years and are happy with nothing more than the normal complaints all married people have. I would say that on the whole of all the people I have known that married a bar girl maybe 5-10% of them regreted it.

Hell, for that matter I am currently married to a college educated, "good girl"as you put it and have been miserable for all 13 years of it.

Like the others said you will never know 100% and there are some big cultural differences you will have to adjust to but it is completely feasible that it can work out.

True, but I personally believe that is because people are much more likely to feed you horror stories than good stories. Much like main stream news media in every country, horror stories sell. Feel good stories and happiness do not. In my life time I have heard just as many horror stories, maybe even more, about a non bar girl as I have about bar girls.

Hell, by and far many of the girls working bars probably have sex less times in their lives than your normal college girl in a first world country as the numbers of girls working the bar compared to the number of customers usually does not equate to the girls being bar fined more than a few times a month unless she really is a spinner.

Psdai, thank you for sticking up for the bar girls! Hopefully my low-mileage bar-girl will work out. As you quite rightly point out, many are sweethearts. Mine certainly is, and has been with many less guys than the average college girl here! I will keep you guys posted on how it all works out for me. Stay tuned!

[Bob Bowie]

Over the last couple of years I have chatted or "dated" many Pinays that were in college or recent Graduates. Many times I have asked to see there school books (mostly Xerox photos of books). With the exception of the nursing programs, the education is a joke. I am sure most average suburban high school kids would have no problem passing the classes.

Also keep in mind they start college at 16, so be sure to always double check there Id's if you meet one near a campus.

Since most of the classes are in English, an educated Pinay will be much easier for you to communicate with and she will be more likely to find a job if you bring her home.

[Psdai]

Psdai - your experience is not mine. Don't think that many members here would offer anything but advice against marrying a girl met in a bar. It really is a recipe for disaster as many guys have found to their cost. It does work occasionally but for every fairy tale you tend to hear shitload of horror stories. GH

True, but I personally believe that is because people are much more likely to feed you horror stories than good stories. Much like main stream news media in every country, horror stories sell. Feel good stories and happiness do not. In my life time I have heard just as many horror stories, maybe even more, about a non bar girl as I have about bar girls.

I realize there are many bar girls that will never change and I am not advocating marrying one if that is not what you want, but the seemingly common thought process that every girl working the bars in SE Asia is a money grubbing little, lying tart that is out to rob you blind is just as bad as the multitude of early Americans that thought all black men should be slaves, were unintelligent, and a step just above apes. It is complete nonsense! There are just as many "good" girls that are worth keeping working the bars as there are running around the business areas of Makati. Hell, by and far many of the girls working bars probably have sex less times in their lives than your normal college girl in a first world country as the numbers of girls working the bar compared to the number of customers usually does not equate to the girls being bar fined more than a few times a month unless she really is a spinner.

Just my opinion mind you. I still like to tell myself I will never marry a Filipina, bar girl or not, but I also know that you simply cannot say those things because life is real strange and never seems to go the way you truly think it will (otherwise I would have married a Thai 13 years ago instead of a Japanese lady).