Prostitution and Law Enforcement

[Daddy Lows]

sorry to change the topic but can anyone confirm this? it sounds over the top but somehow i think it could happen there:

--------------- not so subliminal messages -----------------

richmond, va. - virginia residents will soon be noticing new billboards going up around town with messages aimed at men to dissuade them from having sex with **** girls. billboards, posters, and even coasters and napkins in bars, restaurants, and stores will carry the gentle reminder "isn't she a little young?" or "sex with a minor, don't go there." this new campaign is designed to reduce the number of young girls who have children with older men. in virginia in 1999 and 2000, men over 18 were responsible for 219 births involving girls ages 13 and 14, the virginia depart- ment of health said. "we encourage adult men to talk to their peers and discourage them from pursuing teenagers. what they are doing is unhealthy and against the law," said robert franklin, a health department official. the messages will be appearing in five cities.

[Bez Bezarra]

Ok Civvy.

I totally forgot about getting pulled over after I've picked up a REAL SW, so you reminded me that it did happen way way back in the 80's in a very bad part of Miami when I whipped a u-turn after realizing the neighborhood that the ho had told me to drive through. An undercover narc in a real bad mood yanked me out of my car and was frantically searching every inch of my vehicle, thinking that we had already made a buy. But the ho was only trying to get me to take her to her pusher to score, and when I figured out what was up, I said fuck no, we're outa here, and that's when we got stopped.

Every vein in this cops bald sunburned head was bulging out and about to explode, and then he finds my speargun in my trunk and yells at me "A HA!!! WHAT IS THIS???" I said I go spearfishing you moron, look and you'll see my mask fins and snorkel and dive flag in the mesh bag in the trunk. He went crazy after that and I was sure he was going to stroke out right there, but finally screamed at me to fuck off and never come back. I grudge fucked that damn ho hard enough to make her walk funny for a few days after putting me through that nightmare.

Your story about 15%, or $5K to get back a car is totally insane, jesus fuck hell,
five fucking thousand????

I still disagree that seizing IS ONLY about the cash, not activity, because if you have enough money on you, you can sometimes bail out and get your car as soon as you get to the impound lot. The only extra step here to really scare customers away is when they publish photos of who gets arrested in the newspaper AND on fucking billboards! That was the West Palm female piece of shit mayor's brainstorm. What a complete loser, that's her life's work contribution to politics and civil service because she's so ugly no one will fuck her, not even a blind man.
But not having your wife find out is impossible, because after you're arrested, the cops give all the lawyers a list of everyone's name and address, and for the next 2 weeks, you get about 3 letters each day from a lawyer offereing you his expert services to take your case. I think after 20 or 30 letters that say, Dear John, since you'ver been busted for soliciting for prostitution, please let us defend you in court, the Mrs. is gonna know you was out looking to get your knob polished.

[Smut Villain]

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Civ2000 asks:

"Is it just me or does anyone have a clue what TallnHandsome is asking? His question was lost on me. "

****************************************************

Civ,

I think he may be refering to how some jurisdictions will harass a girl for loitering, etc. when in actuality they're trying to discourage streetwalkers from working. They will sometimes use some weak-assed excuse or criteria to justify this harassment, but both the cops and the hookers know what's really going down.

I know this because they do it all the time in my town; it's why I don't do the SW scene anymore ( I stick to the stripclubs. Get into the right one and extras can be had for less than you think).

S.V.

[Merlin Magician]

Great news today in Phoenix. About 60 of the alleged prostitution cases filed by Sheriff Joes inept bumblers have been dismissed because of investigator misconduct.

Dumb MCSO shits need to go back to enforcing the law out in the county instead of trying to lead a moral crusade against hard working people trying to have a little fun in town.

[Travis Bickle 2]

Mangus, Points well taken and I may have to change my position on a couple of items.

I do disagree however that seizing cars does not reduce activity. In places like Long Beach, California where they had been seizing cars activity was greatly reduced. It's one thing to risk a small fine for solicitation but the thought that you may lose your vehicle or have to pay a large amount to get it back is a great deterrent. I know a couple of guys who were arrested for prostitution and their wifes never even found out. But try explaining to your wife why the new SUV is gone.

Also, the type of car does matter. I've got a brand new truck and I'm looking for a cheap beater car for mongering. If they take my junker away, I will certainly not pay a grand to get it back, rather I'll just buy another junker. In a lot of places you pay 15% to get it back which in my case would be about $5000.

Also, the supreme court has ruled that when drugs are found in a car they are considered to be in the possession of all the occupants of the vehicle. Now, how many SW's do you know that might possibly be carrying a crack pipe? Lots. They can keep your car permanently in this scenario and then you'd be really glad you were driving the Pinto instead of the Porsche.

Generally the stings don't reduce activity too much because it is usually "Jose the gardener" or some newby that they catch. I would guesstimate that 90% of the mongers who pick up SW's on this board never get caught in stings because we know what to look out for.

My mongering days are over for a while until I find a cheap car. My city does not seize for solicitation but does for drugs and I've lost count of the number of crack pipes I've found in my car after a date.

Is it just me or does anyone have a clue what TallnHandsome is asking? His question was lost on me.

Civ

[Bez Bezarra]

Civvy.
Maybe I exaggerated slightly, but when I said 5 stings a week, I'm talking about
for all of the PD's from Miami Beach, to Hialeah, Hollywood, Ft.Lauderdale, Boca, Delray, Lake Worth, West Palm, to Tampa, Orlando and Jacksonville, and everywhere in between, etc. etc. Don't know how well you know SoFla, but there's over 5 million in these 3 counties alone, that's plenty of work, and unlimited supply of suckers and their cash. Everybody's gotta work, and everybody gets paid, and everyone wants to get laid. This is not something they don't know. Instead of your cash going for pussy, it goes to pussy police.

Only 5 arrests in a sting? More like 5 in an hour, on a slow night. They rotate crews, so as soon as they drag one fool away in cuffs, they second crew's ready for the next sucker. There's enough female employees now that they don't run out of decoys.
Compared to the frightening crack monsters that walk these streets, any female that isn't dripping green ooze down her thighs is gonna have cars lined up down the block, just waiting their turn to get trapped. 15 cops? How about 5 plus the decoy. 2 teams of 2 for the takedown, plus one at the table to process the marks, plus the decoy. Oh, I forgot the paddy wagon driver, sorry!

Just read where they post the names. It always goes on for 2 pages. 20 to 25 is probably average. Pinto or Porsche, it don't matter. If you need to drive to work, its $1000 or no car. Obviously, for Jose the drunk gardner who was looking for a $5 blowjob from the major's secretary, he won't even have the cash to bail out, let alone get his jalopy back. But they'll let him make payments, and squeeze every dollar out of him that they can. And remember, that's only the start. By the time you finish paying the lawyer, who by no coincidence used to be the prosecutor and set the whole scam up with the judge and the cops, you're looking at another $3500. Again, a few years running the scam, and its in the millions.

Finally, you are 1000% mistaken saying that seizing cars is what reduces activity.
What reduces activity is picking up all the girls, and then stinging the customers and locking them up. The cars is ONLY about cash. Just look at any other city in the country that runs stings but doesn't charge $1000 to give back your car.
They reduce activity just as much. Down here, the only thing that stops the cars from pulling up to proposition officer skank ***** for a hummer, is when they close up shop for the night at 1 or 2 am. The difference between here and other states, is that other states aren't doing it for revenue, because they won't get away with it.
Here, that IS "the game", that's from the city attorney himself, not me! Some cities, they just give you a fucking ticket, and you pay a $50 fine. Here, you can spend 2 or 3 days in the can until they even let you bail out.

Facts are in the bank accounts you'll never see. The game in SoFla is serious business, get rich, get out. Greed rules, and its easier than taking candy from a baby down here. Busting upper level drug cases, bank robbers, killers, man that's too fucking dangerous, they might get shot, are you crazy?

[Lorenzo]

TallnHandsome,

I think what you're talking about is jaywalking, which is defined as crossing a street anywhere but at an intersection which has a crosswalk or a handicap access ramp, which, unbeknownst to most pedestrians and drivers, has the same status as a crosswalk (a cop told me this). You will definitely get a ticket for jaywalking across a major or busy thoroughfare in LA. The LAPD is pretty agggressive about this. Last I heard, the fine was $50. There is good reason for this; two well known people in the past ten years have been killed after being hit by cars while jaywalking across Wilshire Blvd. One was a female school board member, the other was the activist and former Yippie Jerry Rubin. Who knows how many unknowns have had a similar fate that doesn't merit printing in the paper.

In years past the LAPD had a reputation for stopping any pedestrian who "looked suspicious," which usually meant being black or Latino, especially in a white neighborhood. They no longer do this, thanks largely to some successful law suits.

That's the situation in LA. As for the rest of CA, I can't say. Jaywalking is illegal anywhere in the state, but whether the laws are enforced anywhere outside the City of the Angels, I don't know.

Lorenzo

[James D 2004]

Can someone explain to me how you can get some sort of ticket by walking in some wrong way in California?

[Travis Bickle 2]

Mangus, Good report but I am inclined to believe your numbers are a bit askew. Five stings a week impounding 25 cars per sting? If they did a sting five days a week no one would be picking up girls because a sting would lose its effectiveness being run on a daily basis. Even the most aggressive police departments don't run stings more than once or twice a month on average and most no more than five or six times a year. Also they would soon run out of non-recognizable female officers to work the sting.

Secondly, usually the stings go for 2 to 3 hours until they net anywhere from 5 to 15 johns, so the twenty-five vehicle number is rather high also.

Lastly, stings usually employ about 15 officers who are working overtime because they are taken away from their normal duties. Add in the time for paperwork, the cost of prosecuting the johns, jail time etc and you will find even at a cost of a grand per car they barely break even financially on sting operations. The reason they seize cars is because it is extremely effective in reducing prostitution activity in an area and because the vast majority of non-mongering citizens think its a great idea.

On that note if you are picking up SW's in these areas in an expensive car you are a fool. Find a 1976 Ford Pinto station wagon or equilivent and monger in that. They probably won't seize it because it would cost more to get rid of than they would make and if they do you're only out a couple of hundred bucks.

Most stings take place because businesses and residents of the affected area literally beg the cops to crack down.

All this IMHO of course.

Don't think I am defending the cops. I am not. I absolutely hate the police and think what they are doing is criminal, but facts are facts.

Civ2000

[Bez Bezarra]

Here's a follow up from the newspaper about the Florida state Supreme Court finally getting involved in the extortion scam of anyone arrested in prostitution stings having to pay an extra $1000 bribe to the police to get their car out of impound.

The city attorney for Hollywood Florida who gets his salary paid by you the taxpayers calls the court caving in "good news" because "the game is still on!"

Everyone already knows that since the state has a law that makes anyone arrested for drug felony cases forfeit their property, for many many years local law enforcement departments in West Palm Beach, Hollywood, Dania, Hallandale, and Miami decided to use their women employees to proposition drivers, so they can arrest them, and impound their cars for a tidy $1000 fee.

Add it up, 25 cars a sting, 5 stings a week, $30 million taxpayer dollars. Is anyone surprised that now they pull you over and fine you $100 for not wearing your seatbelt? But riding a motorcycle without a helmet is fine.

Its no accident that the extra income the stings generate, goes into accounts they control and spend as they see fit, not the taxpaying public. They decide who gets this money in bonuses and raises. Your taxes pay their salaries to protect you the public from crime. They have the guns, they have the power. No legal decision made by any powerless court in this country will stop the police.

So really who are the criminals? In a police state like the USA, courts can never
prevent the police from taking anything they want to. Balance of power?
3 equal branches of government? Its a nice concept, maybe someday, somehwere else, but not here.

Need proof ? A West Palm Beach 4th District Court judge finally told the police to stop. Well, the courts don't have the guns, so guess what?

Let's just say, have your bribe money ready, or you'll be taking a bus to work.

[Domino]

The BBC have an article on proposals to have red light districts.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3788013.stm

Personally, I think the right place to have legal hookers is the zoo, along with the the monkeys, elephants and lizards. It would be fun feeding them and it would bring a new clientele to the zoos.

Domino,

As I lost my virginity under a lion waggon, I always get a hard on around animals. It would be great ass pounding a beefy hooker in a cage with lions on one side and gorillas on the other.

[Three I]

I didn't write this it was on another board! The writer was a massage girl years ago and now she works for a prostitution legalisation group!

[Travis Bickle 2]

three x, you are making way too big a deal out of all this. bail bondsmen and trial lawyers for o & a and solicitation charges? the average sw who is arrested spends less than 12 hours in jail and often gets out on a $75.00 bond. i know hookers who have been arrested dozens of times and rarely spend more than a day in jail.

also, the system just does not have room to incarcerate every hooker or petty drug addict who violates probation. ususally it takes several violations to even get a month in jail.

high profile prostitution cases? you're lucky if you see more than two or three a year in the whole country.

don't let them get you unaware? the average sw looks at incarceration as a vacation. a chance to gain back some weight, meet with their friends, and get healthy.

now you might be talking high priced call girls or something here. they are looking at a slap on the wrist as well.

just who are you giving this advice to anyway? this is a board for mongers, not sex workers, even though a few might be reading our posts.

also, i checked the law books: there is no mandatory minimum for pandering and pimping. pandering will usually get you about a month or so for your first conviction, but you will have a felony on your record. pimping will probably get you some peniteniary time but not necessarily.

a year sentence on your second conviction for hooking: bs

obviously you've read some books but have no first hand or practical knowledge of the penal system. what bothers cops the most is the people they arrest day in and day out, hookers who always have crack on them when they get busted, rarely get more than a few days. i remember a sw that lived with me once who got busted by an officer for vucsa (crack cocaine), shoplifting, and and an fta for prostitution who he took to jail and he couldn't believe it when he saw us walking down the street after she'd been pr'd and his shift wasn't even over yet.

and it is illegal to give a fictious name. most actors have had their names legally changed, and if they hadn't they would be required to give the police their real name if arrested.

* i only dance nude and masturbate myself. is that prostitution? wrong again 3x. otherwise the live peep shows would be shut down.

"giving the names of your friends or your clients to the police will not help you get a lesser sentence." also, totally incorrect. just make sure your lawyer negotiates it.

"a pimp can be the bank, the grocery store; anyone who takes money from a prostitute ... from her earnings as a prostitute, is legally 'guilty' of pimping." again, complete and total bs! it may be true like the law that says it's illegal to shoot a camel in boston after dark, but how many bankers have gone to jail for opening a checking account for a hooker. none.

"incase you are only given one chance to make a call." in pre and post book you can make as many calls as you want, you just have to be quick because there are other's waiting for the phone.

civ2000

[James D 2004]

Three X

Without reading too much into it, you posts sound like advice mostly to providers. I don't think they read this board too much, at least they don't post.

I would think there are info on the net better organized for these kind of static information. If not, you can put these on geocity or the like. Easier to read.

Are you a lawyer? Just as LE will be very convincing if they are trying to be nice to you, the same goes for the advice, or any advice. I would trust more if the source is ACLU etc or lawyers. For example, many providers move once every few months rather than anything else, unless they found a neighborhood very accomodating.

I would recommend traffic school. It's easy to get in California, just drive over the limit before LE. They are everywhere when the city is poor. You have to face an LE for hours while he teaches how LE works and how to fight it. Though traffic ticket is trivial but you get the universal essence how LE works. Since most people if they once go to traffic school, they seems to go every 2 years, it's a good source of philosophy about LE. See my particular example in Hollywood, Cali.

T&H

[Three I]

NOTE : IF YOU LIVE AND WORK IN A STATE OTHER THAN CALIFORNIA, THE LAWS IN YOUR STATE MAY BE DIFFERENT. USE THIS INFORMATION AS A REFERENCE GUIDE ONLY- CHECK OUT THE LAWS THROUGH A LAW LIBRARY OR WITH A CRIMINAL LAWYER WHERE YOU LIVE.

SENTENCES FOR PANDERING, PIMPING AND PROSTITUTION ALSO VARY STATE TO STATE. YOU CAN PURCHASE A COPY OF YOUR STATE'S PENAL CODE FROM ANY LEGAL BOOKSTORE. READ FOR ALL REFERENCES TO THE SEX WORK YOU ENGAGE IN AND MEMORIZE THE LAWS! YOUR BEST DEFENSE IS KNOWLEDGE! DON'T LET THEM GET YOU UNAWARE!

****Warning - the information in this page is the opinion of the author and is not intended to take the place of legal advice - and if you are arrested, you should seek the services of a qualified attorney in your state.****





I know what you're thinking. You only do massage therapy, domination, act in porn movies, work for a licensed escort service or do nude dancing. How could they arrest you for prostitution? Isn't a prostitute that poor ignorant drug addict who stands on the streets and sells her body for a few bucks to anyone who comes along? What you were doing was not illegal, was it? And besides, the cop who arrested you. . . he entrapped you, and that's illegal, isn't it?

If you live in California, entrapment for prostitution is legal (even though it should be unconstitutional, it has not been ruled against because no one has been able to get a case heard in a high court of appeals), thanks to liberal democrats who desire to protect us poor stupid women from being exploited. And, in California, prostitution is so vaguely defined that it probably includes behavior that you thought was acceptable and legal. You probably thought that if you didn't have sexual intercourse or give a "blow job" you were not committing prostitution. Or, you thought that if you were doing these things in front of a camera, you were protected - just exercising your first amendment rights. And if you thought that you weren't breaking the law because you didn't take money for the sex act, but you took other consideration instead, you are wrong.

Unfortunately, if you get arrested, and if you plead guilty or are convicted, you may end up with a prostitution record which will brand you as a prostitute forever. Such a record will prevent you from being able to do certain things, so it is important not to plead guilty or get a conviction if at all possible. Not to mention a conviction for prostitution carries a mandatory jail sentence on the first offense, and sometimes up to a year on the second offense.

* Know what your rights are and know the law!!!!! The police expect you to be ignorant of your rights and of the law - so they often get away with doing things to you that are illegal. By knowing what the law is and what your rights are, you can protect yourself from police abuse.

* Know a good attorney and a bail bonds person who will be there for you if you get arrested - not every bail bonds company will bail out women or men who have been arrested on prostitution charges. They will bail out men who have been accused of beating their wives, or who have committed armed robbery, but not men or women who have been charged with being exploited for money!

* Fight the law - do not plead guilty - take your case to trial - make them work to put you in jail. The law is wrong and should be fought. If we all fight our cases, instead of giving in, the courts would be more overcrowded than ever, and the police would have to stop arresting us.

* Giving the names of your friends or your clients to the police will not help you get a lesser sentence. The police will tell you that if you cooperate with them, they can help you with the judge- but the reality is that they can't do anything at all, so if you turn in your friends or your clients, you do so for nothing, and you have lost your friend.

* After your first arrest, the likelihood of your getting arrested again within the next few weeks or months (until your case has been resolved) increases 90 percent more than before you were arrested the first time. The reason for this is simply because the police want to keep you from pleading not guilty in court. If you have never been arrested before, and go before a judge, you may be able to convince him or her that your arrest was a mistake- but, if you get arrested again right away, before your case has been settled, you will have a more difficult time convincing a judge or city attorney that you really are not a prostitute and should not get the mandatory jail sentence.

* Always exercise extreme caution when speaking to anyone, including those you know well. If they suddenly begin asking questions that involve money or sex - questions that they already know the answers to - bells should go off in your head. Tell him, "Why whatever do you mean?" Don't give the cops ammunition to use against you. Always talk to your clients (on the phone and in person) as though your conversation was being tape recorded and will be played in front of a jury. Don't say anything that will incriminate you.


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COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS:

* IF NO MONEY CHANGES HANDS, I HAVE NOT BROKEN THE LAW. The law only requires that you "manifest an acceptance of the offer" and does not say that you take the money. All you have to do to get arrested is to agree (by smiling or nodding your head) to touch his buttocks or genitals (through massage or dominance) or to let him touch yours, and agree to take a fee for it - in cash, or other consideration.* The crime of prostitution is all a word game- based on getting a 'solicitation' rather than an actual act out of a suspect. Anything further, such as getting you to get undressed or taking the money they offer, is just 'icing' on their legal case against you.

* I ONLY DANCE NUDE AND MASTURBATE MYSELF. IS THAT PROSTITUTION? The law says prostitution is "a lewd act for money or other consideration," which is "the touching of breast, buttocks or genitals for the purpose of sexual gratification or arousal." (later on we will explain this further.) Notice that it doesn't say who touches whose breast, buttocks or genitals in order for it to be lewd conduct. The vagueness of the law allows the act of masturbation to be included in the definition of prostitution if the other person (who is paying) becomes aroused or achieves sexual gratification while watching you and that is what they are paying for. So, whether you masturbate yourself, or, if you have a girl-girl show where you touch the breasts, buttocks or genitals of a third party, if the individual who is paying you gets aroused, etc. you have broken the law.

* IF I DON'T SEE ANY NEW PEOPLE, I AM OKAY. We know from many cases that the police have followed clients after they leave the house of the sex worker they see, and threaten to tell his boss or his family if he doesn't cooperate with them and help the police arrest you. So, even if the person that you see is an old friend, be careful if he starts to ask you questions about money or sex that you know he already knows. Also, if he tells you that he has a friend that would like to see you, and he has never done that before, approach the situation with extreme caution. It may be fine- but it also may be a set up. As the saying goes- it is better to be safe than sorry!