Crime, Safety, and the Police

[Dosequis]

Let's put it this way very simply. Very little has changed in TJ. There are some corrupt cops and some who aren't. They always have and still do random searches, especially in the drug areas which is the zona norte. (where the hookers are) It's no big deal. If you haven't done anything wrong, they don't do anything to you. It's more of a scare tactic.

Driving is tougher because they can easily say you rolled through a stop sign. It is unsettling getting searched or stopped the first few times but it is common. Just go with the flow. If you did nothing wrong, hold your ground and pay nothing. They just bust your balls and then let you go. If you are that afraid, just stay in the US or go and stay with your friends when in TJ.

[Simple Man]

let's knock off the b.s. and focus on the issues that this forum is intended for, the ladies!

i don't think that the government is going to consult with this forum to determine their immigration policy. i could be wrong.

on the issue of the tj police i have been coming to tj for more than 10 years and have only been harassed once and on that occassion i was admittedly speeding. i currently live in baja california and drive all over baja. i am extremely white and do not at all look like a native. i drive a late mode land rover with california plates. i just returned from a trip in which i drove from tj to cabo san lucas and never once had a problem with the police local or federal. in fact, i got directions from the police and advice on what hotel to stay in on the route. from my experience the majority of people that are harassed by the police here bring it upon themselves. i know of at least one person that constantly rags on the tj police on this forum taht was pulled over because he ran a stop sign. he paid $40 and considers this a "shake down." the same offense in california would cost you more than $200.00 plus a day at traffic school or points on your record.

for people that say that the tj police are just more street thugs, i can only say that tj is a very dangerous city. on top of home grown mexican scum they receive a number of gangbangers that are deported here from the states. accordingly, there are a number of active and very dangerous street gangs in tj along with common and ruthless thieves. if you should happen to turn down the wrong alley you may find yourself wishing that one of tj's finest was what you ran into.

i drove down to cabo with my girlfriend so i was unfortunately unable to hobby. i did note, however, that practically every town on route 1 has a ladies' bar just outside of town. i did not get to check any of these out but they did peak my curiosity. i did have a couple of afternoons to myself while my lady was at the spa and the beauty salon. both these days i took a cab to the ccc, a large store in cabo, like a walmart. on both of these days i began speaking to the cabbies and both times they offered to take me to casas that are frequented by the locals and not tourist spots. again, as i was traveling with my lady i declined. i don't know if it was b.s. or not but both of them only offered after we had spoken for quite some time and both came into the store and hung out with me while i shopped and both only charged me $5.00 which is very cheap for a cab ride in cabo. so while i don't know for a fact, i suspect that like most cities in mexico there are numerous casas in cabo that cater to the locals, you just have to have a local show you where they are.

[Country John]

CJ does not have TJ cops on his payroll and only CERTAIN fat white lazy Americans are good for nothing.

CJ

[GettingTang]

as for corrupt tj cops, maybe cj has a few on his pay role? after-all he boasts how only mexicans know how to work and all us fat lazy white americans are good for nothing.

more importantly, are you people for real here? there is no surprise when it comes to tj cops. they are all corrupt! this is hardly some big secret. tj cops have been hassling us americans for years. they are constantly biting the hand that feeds them. until we all decide to boycott tj, it will go on forever! be real! they are nothing but thugs, and have less respect for you then the common street thug. true, you do have to show them respect when they are shaking you down, but realize it's only because i am in their country where people have been known to disappear.

i have known of two americans who supposedly traveled across the border and "committed suicide" in both cases the mexican authorities kept the bodies of the deceased for weeks before turning them over to the families. one guy was just 17, no reason to comit suicide was found shot in the head in a remote area. it's more then likely the tj cops who are up to this.

i would not advise mentioning you're an attorney if they decide to basically [CodeWord123] you. the reason is given the timing of such a statement. if you decided to mention this info after they have already violated your "rights" and robbed you and they get the idea you are capable of making trouble, you can bet your chances of "disappearing" in tj have just ten folded. trust me it's best to act respectful and meek to these thugs! give them what they want, value your life. tell them you're a fry cook or something, but never anything that pertains to le.

the mexican government from top to bottom is corrupt. everyone knows this. just ask any mexican. they steal people's property, homes, cars on a daily bases. they add taxes in any amount they want to a mexican's citizens property and basically steal if from them whenever and wherever they want.

the policia in tj will only take your $ and rattle your nerves if you handle it right, but do anything else and you're sure to be a goner!

gettingtang~!

[Rabo Verde]

HoMaster, pls tell us more. How many times have you "gone to the station"? Were you driving at the time? Did they make you follow in your car? I have seen signs in TJ on Revolucion with a toll free number to report shakedowns, I will write the number down next time I go and post it here. (I realize that, in theory a lot of this stuff is off-topic, but hell, there isn't much to say about TJ hobbying except park your car at the border, walk across, take a taxi to Adelita's, check out the alley and CC, make your selection and negotiate your deal, and take a taxi back...)

[HoMaster]

You will never end up "seeing the judge". Just be courteous and tell them you understand that they have to take you to the station. They will try and intimidate you and you'll be thinking, shit I'll be waiting for days, etc., but go to the station - 9 times out of 10 the shakedown will dissolve without you going to the station. And if you go to the station and are reasonable, you'll be apologized to and set loose. And get the cops names and car license numbers so you can go back the next day and report them. I've done that each time I'm shaken down/attempted shakedown. A pain in the ass to return, but if we all do it, the bad cops will be impacted.

[irishman]

I have driven into TJ many times and never had a problem with the police. Of course, I could have said the same thing about walking before last Saturday.

To keep some perspective, I do also note that of all the times I have gone to TJ, I have now been stopped by police 3 times for no reason-but two of them were on the US side. I wrote about this on the forum a few months back. I have twice been pulled over by San Diego police in the border for completely pretextual reasons because they were, in effect, randomly searching for drunk drivers. Of course, on the US side there is no fear of a shakedown.

[Rabo Verde]

You are at MORE risk if you drive down, IMHO. Having been shaken down several times while driving recently, I now park USA and walk across. Sorry to hear that now pedestrians are getting the shakedown too! Very discouraging. I have walked up Constitucion 200+ times, and also been dropped off at Sentri an equal number, and the cops never bothered me there when I was walking. Anyone else been hassled while walking?

[Mutha Foo]

Guys,

To avoid shakedowns, don't dress fancy, don't get into fights, don't take pictures, don't do anything potentially illegal. Go there and drink without getting drunk and get laid. That's it. Take a cab everywhere (but I am concerned about this police substation) so when you take the cab back to the border head to the taxi stand. I would NOT run for the border cuz the TJ police have guns.

Mutha.

[irishman]

Conejo has an interesting post in the TJ Street Walkers section re his shakedown on Saturday. It seems that the TJ cops corruption might actually be increasing.

Tranceman, I think if you have a valid verifiable prescription that you are ok under Mexican law, but I am not 100% certain of this. I do recommend lying about your profession if you can get away with it. I mean, if you are 18 years old it is probably not going to be credible to say you are a lawyer. When I said I was a lawyer, the cops did not ask for any verification of this, so you might be able to get away with that lie by just matter of factly saying you are a lawyer. Or maybe be prepared to answer some basic questions they might ask like the type of law you practice, where you went to law school and where you work. Just think about those things beforehand.

Upon reflection, I am not sure if I would lie to the Mexican police about being a cop because cops would typically carry identification so identifying themselves (unlike lawyers). So if you say you are a cop, the TJ cops might expect you to have i.d. proving that.

My guess is that if you only have $20 and no ATM card that the cops will take the $20 and let you go. Remember, the TJ police's entire point of the encounter is to extract money from you. If $20 is all you have and they are convinced of this, they probably take the $20 and let you go. See Conejo's post in the Street Walker forum. Now, this assumes that you have not actually been caught doing anything--if you have a pound of cocaine on you then I doubt if $20 will do the trick.

From the recent news reports, Conejo's post and my experience, I think a few general principles are emerging: the TJ police don't just walk up to you and demand cash, but rather in their own minds they have to have at least a pretext that you did something illegal, a patina of legitimacy to what they are doing. Why I do not know because the intimidation would work just as well if they just made up something, but this seems to be the culture. They are usually not so brazen as to plant evidence on you, but if you have an encounter with them for something they will try to intimidate you (examples of people recently abused by TJ police: a couple who disputed a bar bill, women involved in a car accident without having Mexican insurance, people who bought meds, a person taking pictures in the Zona, etc.). Once they can tell you that you did something wrong, even if it isn't really serious or even true, they prey on your fears and ignorance, respect for the police resulting from being an American and abuse you.

So, the lessons: (1) be above reproach in TJ, don't get into disputes with bar owners about bills, don't buy meds, if you drive have insurance, etc. ; and (2) if you did nothing wrong, I think you can probably effectively stand up to the police there, so what I would do in those circumstances is probably try to get out of it cheaply for say $20 and if that does not work, refuse and say you will tell your story to a judge.

[SDcruiser]

irishman;

nice to see you made it thru. i know where you are tlaking about and yes, that's where the [CodeWord123] occurred. actually it was more around the corner. it's considered "la linea sentri".

i once had a driver miss the exit and he dropped me off around the corner about 300yds away from the spot you were talking about. i was a little worried and not becuase of the banditos, policia or whatever - i could handle myself against 3:1. i was more worried about them damn tj dogs!!! the wolf packs could make your evening a little nippy.

i've stopped carrying atm cards acrosss the border. i carry a credit card, drivers license - that's it. i'm going to stop taking medication across. i'll just take what i'm going to consume.

thanks for the tip, i'll avoid the sentri drop off after 12am.

cruiser

[irishman]

i have been to tijuana many, many times over the past 3 or 4 years, probably on average about 3 times a month. i have heard about problems with corrupt police and have read the recent news reports about a seeming increase in tourists being assaulted and extorted by the police, mostly right at the border area. i had never had any kind of run-in with the police until last saturday morning.

after a night of partying with a chica friend of mine, i took a cab to the border at about 3:00 a.m. consistent with my wishes, the cab dropped me off at the drop off point nearest to the pedestrian line to cross the border (as opposed to the area where the yellow cabs park). right in this area is a small police sub-station (a female tourist recently reported being raped in this sub-station). as i got out of the cab, a police officer speaking impeccable and almost accent-free english asked if he could see my identification. forgetting where i was for a second, i asked why with a slight tone of defiance in my voice. but then i just gave up the identification.

there were 4-5 cops around me. the one in charge asked me what i had been doing in tijuana and if i had bought any medications. i said no. they searched me. i had nothing, but i was quite concerned something was going to be planted on me as one of the cops was placing his hands in my pockets. while they were doing that, the lead cop (again, his perfect english surprised me), asked me what my job was. i said, "i am a lawyer." the cop then tells the other cops in spanish that i am an "abogado." almost immediately, they concede their search had not produced anything and they thanked me for my time and sent me on my way.

although i recognize my experience was minor compared to other stories i have heard and nothing serious happened to me, i am a bit disturbed by the experience and i caution everyone to be careful. obviously, these cops had nefarious thoughts on their minds. it was going to be a shakedown. i was randomly stopped for no reason. i was asked what my job was even though this was completely irrelvant to the situation, and when i said i was a lawyer, this was announced in spanish to the other cops and they backed off. it was equally obvious that these cops had this routine down pat. strikingly, they were quite polite in tone, but there was also an aura of intimidation.

there is no doubt that if they had found anything on me or if i had not announced that i was a lawyer, there was going to be a financial transaction attempted. notably, the recent article in the san diego union tribune (which i believe was pasted on this site a few pages back) told about a tourist being detained and searched very near where i was, and then being taken to atm machines. i am not sure what i would have done, but i think given the way i felt at the time, i would have refused to pay and insisted that we see a judge.

of course, in this instance i was completely innocent. i might have felt differently about paying a bribe if i actually had some medications and had been caught breaking the law. i often do pick up prescription drugs down there and had intended to do so earlier that evening, but got there too late and my usual pharmacy was closed. it was just luck i did not have anything when i was searched.

lessons: (1) do not allow yourself to get dropped off by a cab where i was--get dropped off in the yellow cab parking area. this requires more of a walk, but gets you to the border line without passing by the police sub-station where it appears the shakedowns are occurring most frequently;

(2) avoid having any medications or anything else questionable on you, and if you do i would recommend placing them in your shoes or somewhere else on your body where they will not be found with a frisk search;

(3) be a lawyer or be able to credibly say you are one, or perhaps be a cop or in some other profession that may give these tijuana cops pause and reason to think perhaps you will have the wherewithall to pursue justice in the matter;

(4) if you are detained that close to the border, and it looks like you are going to be mistreated, consider bolting and making a run for the u.s. entry point. i am serious. i thought about this afterwards. i was at most 100-200 yards from u.s. territory when i was stopped. i think i could have made it. making this dash and dealing with whatever the consequences are on the us side would be far preferable to being in the custody of the tj police and being driven around to atm machines--or worse. and the us would not probably have any basis to charge you with anything, leaving it to the mexicans to request extradition, which would not happen given the shakedown circumstances.

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