Crime, Safety, and the Police

[Mtndew704]

Is the SG scene about the same risk factor as El Centro in Medellin Colombia? Thinking about making my 1st trip to Tijuana since Colombia doesn't appear to be opening anytime soon.

[YyzTravel]

Hey guys!

Just wondering about traveling across. Just good with a passport to cross back and forth walking across the border?

Haven't been since covid.

Passport only is fine. Just need to have a "reason" to go. Just cite medical and have a place in mind. (Smile builders was my go to for "dental work".

[Kepaej]

Hey guys!

Just wondering about traveling across. Just good with a passport to cross back and forth walking across the border?

Haven't been since covid.

[Dogers69]

Mikey.

This COVid test site at Ped East is operated by San Diego county, has nothing to do with federal gov or CBP. It's a full test, not a quick temp check.

You bring up a valid question. How would CBP determine which travelers are infected or potential carriers? They would have to do at least a quick temperature check with hand-held skin temp sensors. Would hate to let CBP agents use their gut feels alone to decide which travelers can pass and who have to stay in Mexico.

All businesses, shops, stores, restaurants, hotels in Tijuana are distancing, checking temp, sanitizing hands, wiping shoes on wet pads to prevent the virus spread. None of those procedures are being implemented anywhere in California. So which country is more serious about stopping the spread?

It may be prudent to print out a negative test result ans show to CBP agents of asked. Don't want to stay in Mexico longer after popping a few chicas.

I will believe it when I see it. Just can't imagine mexico allowing gringos to be in Mexico if sick. A big concern would be if you hit Tijuana by 2 pm felt little sick by 10 pm by morning you can't stop coughing, by noon ubtry go back, but can't stop coughing. Do they make you quarantine in San Diego someplace? They have hotel rooms lined up for those needing quarantine.

[ScatManDoo]

I saw this 1st hand in Manhattan 2 months ago. Walked around for 6 hours watching everyone looting, dudes would stop their car, keep it running while they jumped through the broken windows

You would think these out-of-town looters would get their cars stolen by the local poorer (carless) looters.

That would have to of been better and easier than breaking into police cars in front of 200 cops.

The whole night only people arrested were NYC flagship Macy's, and the guys trying to break into off duty cop cars. Even people setting cop cars on fire in front of 200 cops were not arrested. I must of saw 30 out of state cars looting and 500 looters easily all with 2 to 3 garbage bags full by 3 am.

[Captain Solo]

Mikey.

This COVid test site at Ped East is operated by San Diego county, has nothing to do with federal gov or CBP. It's a full test, not a quick temp check.

You bring up a valid question. How would CBP determine which travelers are infected or potential carriers? They would have to do at least a quick temperature check with hand-held skin temp sensors. Would hate to let CBP agents use their gut feels alone to decide which travelers can pass and who have to stay in Mexico.

All businesses, shops, stores, restaurants, hotels in Tijuana are distancing, checking temp, sanitizing hands, wiping shoes on wet pads to prevent the virus spread. None of those procedures are being implemented anywhere in California. So which country is more serious about stopping the spread?

It may be prudent to print out a negative test result ans show to CBP agents of asked. Don't want to stay in Mexico longer after popping a few chicas.

[MikeyMae]

Trump considers a rule that would block Americans thought to have the virus from returning home.

President Trump is considering new immigration regulations that would allow border officials to temporarily block American citizens and legal permanent residents from returning to the United States from abroad if authorities believe they may be infected with the coronavirus.
.

So this ISN'T a total coincidence then?

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...-mexico-border

[ClamSlammer]

I saw this 1st hand in Manhattan 2 months ago. Walked around for 6 hours watching everyone looting, dudes would stop their car, keep it running while they jumped through the broken windows, saw 30 people spend 20 minutes to break into best buy while 20 cops watched across street. They were given stand down orders from mayor. The whole night only people arrested were NYC flagship Macy's, and the guys trying to break into off duty cop cars. Even people setting cop cars on fire in front of 200 cops were not arrested. I must of saw 30 out of state cars looting and 500 looters easily all with 2 to 3 garbage bags full by 3 am.

You witnessed none of this, just the same as you didn't witness Mexican seniors with guns to their heads who listed and closed their homes within a week. When pressed, you admitted you lied and it was just a rumor you heard. Same case here. You can't see "1st hand" events that did not happen. Nobody believes that 200 cops just stood there munching popcorn while a cop car was set on fire right in front of them. Cops arrested people breaking into "off duty" cop cars (there's no such thing" but did nothing when their cars were set on fire? Well, normally wouldn't you break into a car first, then set fire to the interior?

[Captain Solo]

Trump considers a rule that would block Americans thought to have the virus from returning home.

President Trump is considering new immigration regulations that would allow border officials to temporarily block American citizens and legal permanent residents from returning to the United States from abroad if authorities believe they may be infected with the coronavirus.

In recent months, Mr. Trump has imposed sweeping rules that ban entry by foreigners into the United States, citing the risk of allowing the virus to spread from hot spots abroad. But those rules have exempted two categories of people attempting to return: American citizens and noncitizens who have already established legal residence.

Now, a draft regulation would expand the government's power to prevent entry by citizens and legal residents in individual, limited circumstances. Federal agencies have been asked to submit feedback on the proposal to the White House by Tuesday, though it is unclear when it might be approved or announced.

Under the proposal, which relies on existing legal authorities of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the government could block a citizen or legal resident from crossing the border into the United States if an official "reasonably believes that the individual either may have been exposed to or is infected with the communicable disease."

The draft, parts of which were obtained by The Times, explicitly says that any order blocking citizens and legal permanent residents must "include appropriate protections to ensure that no Constitutional rights are infringed. " And it says that citizens and legal residents cannot be blocked as an entire class of people.

The documents appear not to detail how long a citizen or legal resident would be required to remain outside of the United States.

The draft memo says the prohibition on the introduction of USA Citizens or legal residents from abroad would apply "only in the rarest of circumstances," and "when required in the interest of public health, and be limited in duration."

Still if Mr. Trump approves the change, it would be an escalation of his government's longstanding attempts to seal the border against what he considers to be threats, using the existence of the coronavirus pandemic as a justification for taking actions that would have been seen as draconian in other contexts.

A spokesman for the Department of Homeland Security declined to comment. A spokesman for the see. The. See. Said late Monday afternoon that he would seek to gather more information about the proposal.

It is unclear whether there are any existing rules that would allow American citizens and legal residents to be prohibited from returning to the United States for a period of time because of concerns about a communicable disease. Immigration officials have broad authority to deny entry to people based on national security issues.

The rule appears to apply to all points of entry into the United States, including at airports and along both the northern and southern borders. In particular, the draft could impact the border with Mexico, where many American citizens and legal residents cross back and forth frequently.

The rule notes the prevalence of the coronavirus in Mexico as evidence of the need for the modified rule, citing the death on August 2 of the health minister in the Mexican border state of Chihuahua, who the order says died of Covid-19 after a two week hospitalization.

[Dogers69]

Chicago's fancy, brand-name stores were all toast.

Mexico sure looks safer and more civilized than the US.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/100-arres...145451275.html

100 arrested after mass looting breaks out in Chicago.

Reuters VideosAugust 10,2020, 7:54 AM.

Brown called the outbreak "pure criminality," and Mayor Lori Lightfoot sought to distance the incident from the "righteous uprising" in response to the death of George Floyd at the hands of Minneapolis police on May 25. "This was not an organized protest. Rather this was an incident of pure criminality," Brown told a news conference. At least 13 officers were injured, and a security guard and a civilian were struck by gunfire, Brown said. Social media images showed storefronts bashed in and people fleeing stores with arms full of goods, with much of the action taking place along Michigan Avenue, the upscale commercial district known as the Magnificent Mile..

I saw this 1st hand in Manhattan 2 months ago. Walked around for 6 hours watching everyone looting, dudes would stop their car, keep it running while they jumped through the broken windows, saw 30 people spend 20 minutes to break into best buy while 20 cops watched across street. They were given stand down orders from mayor. The whole night only people arrested were NYC flagship Macy's, and the guys trying to break into off duty cop cars. Even people setting cop cars on fire in front of 200 cops were not arrested. I must of saw 30 out of state cars looting and 500 looters easily all with 2 to 3 garbage bags full by 3 am.

[LuvMexicanas]

Chicago's fancy, brand-name stores were all toast.

Mexico sure looks safer and more civilized than the US.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/100-arres...145451275.html

100 arrested after mass looting breaks out in Chicago.

Reuters VideosAugust 10,2020, 7:54 AM.

Brown called the outbreak "pure criminality," and Mayor Lori Lightfoot sought to distance the incident from the "righteous uprising" in response to the death of George Floyd at the hands of Minneapolis police on May 25. "This was not an organized protest. Rather this was an incident of pure criminality," Brown told a news conference. At least 13 officers were injured, and a security guard and a civilian were struck by gunfire, Brown said. Social media images showed storefronts bashed in and people fleeing stores with arms full of goods, with much of the action taking place along Michigan Avenue, the upscale commercial district known as the Magnificent Mile. People were drawn by a number of social media posts encouraging looting in central Chicago after tensions flared following the police shooting of a man with a gun, Brown said.

Cyclist Surveys Damage During Night of Looting in Chicago.

And Americans regularly say Mexico is lawless. We should really focus on cleaning up our own backyard before we go knocking on our neighbor's door.

[Captain Solo]

Chicago's fancy, brand-name stores were all toast.

Mexico sure looks safer and more civilized than the US.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/100-arres...145451275.html

100 arrested after mass looting breaks out in Chicago.

Reuters VideosAugust 10,2020, 7:54 AM.

Brown called the outbreak "pure criminality," and Mayor Lori Lightfoot sought to distance the incident from the "righteous uprising" in response to the death of George Floyd at the hands of Minneapolis police on May 25. "This was not an organized protest. Rather this was an incident of pure criminality," Brown told a news conference. At least 13 officers were injured, and a security guard and a civilian were struck by gunfire, Brown said. Social media images showed storefronts bashed in and people fleeing stores with arms full of goods, with much of the action taking place along Michigan Avenue, the upscale commercial district known as the Magnificent Mile. People were drawn by a number of social media posts encouraging looting in central Chicago after tensions flared following the police shooting of a man with a gun, Brown said.

Cyclist Surveys Damage During Night of Looting in Chicago.

StoryfulAugust 10,2020, 5:29 AM.

Hundreds of looters descended on downtown Chicago in the early hours of August 10, "smashing windows, looting stores, clashing with police and at one point exchanging gunfire with officers," the Chicago Tribune said. Video by Cortri Trotter shows looting at various stores in the city, including Bloomingdale's and Yves Saint-Laurent. The looting followed angry scenes in the city's Englewood neighborhood after police shot what they said was an armed suspect who had opened fire on officers in pursuit. The suspect and three officers were taken to hospital, police said. Credit: Cortri Trotter via Storyful.

[Captain Solo]

Hospital Fear Drives Deaths Within Mexico.

By Natalie Kitroeff and Paulina Villegas Aug. 10,2020 Updated 9:02 am ET.

MEXICO CITY — A gray Suzuki stopped outside the General Hospital of Mexico and deposited a heaving Victor Bailóand at the entrance. He had refused to come to the hospital for days, convinced that doctors were killing coronavirus patients. By the time he hobbled into the triage area and collapsed on the floor, it was too late.

"Papito, breathe!" his wife screamed. "Please breathe. ".

Within an hour, Mr. Bailóand was dead.

Mexico is battling one of the worst coronavirus outbreaks in the world, with more than 52,000 confirmed deaths, the third-highest toll of the pandemic. And its struggle has been made even harder by a pervasive phenomenon: a deeply rooted fear of hospitals.

The problem has long plagued nations overwhelmed by unfamiliar diseases. During the Ebola epidemic in 2014, many in Sierra Leone believed that hospitals had become hopeless death traps, leading sick people to stay home and inadvertently spread the disease to their families and neighbors.

Here in Mexico, a similar vicious cycle is taking place. As the pandemic crushes an already weak health care system, with bodies piling up in refrigerated trucks, many Mexicans see the Covid ward as a place where only death awaits — to be avoided at all cost.

The consequences, doctors, nurses and health ministers say, are severe. Mexicans are waiting to seek medical care until their cases are so bad that doctors can do little to help them. Thousands are dying before ever seeing the inside of a hospital, government data show, succumbing to the virus in taxis on the way there or in sickbeds at home.

Fighting infections at home may not only spread the disease more widely, epidemiologists say, but it also hides the true toll of the epidemic because an untold number of people die without ever being tested — and officially counted — as coronavirus victims.

Many Mexicans say they have good reason to be wary of hospitals: Nearly 40 percent of people hospitalized with confirmed cases of the virus in Mexico City, the epicenter of the nation's outbreak, end up dying, government data show, a high mortality rate even when compared with some of the worst coronavirus hot spots worldwide. During the peak of the pandemic in New York City, less than 25 percent of coronavirus patients died in hospitals, studies have estimated.

While the statistic may be imprecise because of limited testing, doctors and researchers confirmed that a startling number of people are dying in Mexico's hospitals.

During a surge of cases in May, almost half of all Covid-19 deaths in Mexico City hospitals occurred within 12 hours of the patient's being admitted, said Dr. Oliva López Arellano, Mexico City's health minister.

In the United States, people who died typically made it five days in the hospital.

Doctors say more patients would survive if they sought help earlier. Delaying treatment, they argue, simply leads to more deaths in hospitals — which then generates even more fear of hospitals.

The distrust is so pronounced that relatives of patients in Ecatepec, a municipality outside Mexico City, stormed a hospital in May, attacking its employees, filming themselves next to bags of corpses and telling reporters that the institution was killing their loved ones.

"After seeing videos of what happens to people inside hospitals, screw that," said Mr. Bailóand's brother, José Eduardo, who had recently spent 60 days at home recovering from his own about with what he believes was the coronavirus. "I'the rather stay home and die there."

But many people who die at home in Mexico — or even on the way to the hospital — are never tested for the virus, so they are not counted as coronavirus victims. Instead, they fall into a statistical black hole of fatalities that are not officially tied to the pandemic.

Even by the official count, Mexico has already suffered more coronavirus deaths than any other nation but the United States and Brazil. And the government said recently that during a period of over three months this spring, there were 71,000 more deaths than expected, compared with previous years — an indication that the virus has claimed many more lives than the official tally suggests.

Adding to the confusion, political leaders here, as in many countries, have sown doubts about the virus and the need to seek medical care. The hugely popular president, Andrés Manuel López Obrador, said he uses religious amulets and his clean conscience to protect against the coronavirus, and he has advocated fighting the pandemic at home, with the help of families, rather than in hospitals.

Nearly 70 percent of Mexicans said they would feel "unsafe" taking their loved ones to the hospital during the pandemic, in a survey published last month. A third said they would prefer to care for their relatives themselves.

Now the nation's top health officials have begun pleading with Mexicans to stop resisting medical care.

"It's very important that late care doesn't contribute to death," Hugo López-Gatell, the health official leading the country's response to the virus, said at a news conference last month. "Please, go to hospitals early, especially people who are most at risk."

Many are wary of the costs that come with a hospital stay. And in a country plagued by rampant government corruption, the fundamental distrust of the authorities often extends to doctors and nurses in public hospitals.

At the General Hospital in Mexico City, where Mr. Bailón died, suspicion was running high. No one had wanted to come to the hospital, a place that seemed to swallow their loved ones and leave them outside, with few updates to calm the nerves. Everyone had a theory about the real cause of the virus and the destruction it had unleashed.

Modesto Gómez, whose wife was inside, heard the government was letting elderly people die of the virus because they had expensive pensions. Héctor Mauricio Ortega, whose father was intubated there with a Covid infection, said he believed doctors were purposely infecting people with the virus "because countries have a quota of people who need to die every year."

Raúl Pérez woke up in a panic on the benches outside the entrance. It was his 16th day sleeping there after his sister went in for brain surgery.

He said he had met seven families of patients who had come in for another illness and then died of the coronavirus.

"People think maybe they're injecting them with something or killing them in there," he said.

Mr. Pérez didn't believe the rumors at first, but then doctors told him that his sister, who was still intubated after her brain surgery, had tested positive for coronavirus. Now he was frantic, calling all of his relatives, telling them the hospital wanted his sister dead.

"They are letting people get infected," he said. "They just want to get rid of one more patient. ".

Dr. López, Mexico City's health minister, said that rumors of malicious medical practices had been widespread. Doctors were supposedly stealing the fluid from people's knees, or trading their fingerprint data gleaned from oximeter readings.

Dr. Ernesto Nepomuceno said that in his clinic in Iztapalapa, a poor neighborhood in Mexico City, doctors perform oximeter readings on themselves to show patients that they are measuring oxygen levels, not recording personal data.

"We have to make great efforts to put people at ease," Dr. Nepomuceno said.

Two days before Mr. Bailón was wheeled into the General Hospital's intensive care unit, he visited a doctor in his tiny hometown an hour outside the capital. His oxygen levels were low, but he begged his wife, Fabiola Palma Rodríguez, not to drive him to the hospital.

"Please don't take me there, I don't want to die," she recalled him telling her. By the time Mr. Bailóand relented, he was already ravaged by the disease.

After a local hospital turned him away, he made the trip to Mexico City. He died on a stretcher in the General Hospital, Ms. Palma said, before doctors could intubate him.

"I would have taken him earlier, but we were both too scared," Ms. Palma said. "It is so unfair. I took him there alive and brought him back home dead the same day."

Aurora Arzate Nieves died on the same day as Mr. Bailóand, in the same hospital, about 30 hours after being admitted. The matriarch of a tightly knit Mexican family, Ms. Arzate, 83, was known for her green mole dish and strong will. Her sons practically had to drag her to the hospital.

That decision was tormenting Eduardo Gutiérrez Arzate as he said a final goodbye to his mother, who was zipped into a bag inside a Ford minivan converted into a hearse by a funeral company near the hospital.

Pawing at the window, Mr. Gutiérrez begged his mother to wake up.

"I felt really guilty when I saw her," he said, standing outside the crematory, black smoke billowing overhead.

She was scared of everything having to do with the coronavirus and of hospitals, where she'the be surrounded by "depressed people," instead of by her family.

"I asked her in that moment to forgive me," he said. "I asked her to forgive me for taking her to the hospital. ".

[Dogers69]

Mexico is lawless? Have you seen the shit going on in Portland? I'm not sure I'd feel that much more unsafe in Acapulco than southside Chicago. If any city in Mexico were to have as many shootings over a holiday as Chicago did during this 4th of July weekend (79 shot with 15 killed including children), the media hype would be insane. We as Americans should really focus on cleaning up our own backyard before we go knocking on our neighbor's door.

Mexico has most of the most dangerous cities in the world. It is lawless. There's two governments neither has full control.

The federal government and the cartels. In 20 30 years it may just be the cartel without federal government but the cartels not going away. And USA is a violent place if you compare it to many countries. And its Democrat leaders are doing their best to turn it into a lawless prison less sister of mexico. We will catch up to Mexico but that's not what this forum is about.

[LuvMexicanas]

In the last 5 years, gang wars, murders, violence, extortion, tourists kidnapping and torturing have stopped the flow of tourists to Acapulco. Even cruise ships were afraid to release their cruise passengers. Youtube has many reports and interviews of hotels, restaurants, shops and tourist-related businesses who were crying over the death of their businesses. Videos show beautiful resorts and fancy restaurants completely empty of clients.

Even without revenues, the cartels still tax and shakedown business owners, big and small, for protection money. A lot, if not most, businesses just shut down due to losses and violent threats by the cartels. There was a taxi driver who made no money because of absence or tourists. He was shot to death for failing to pay the cartel. This scenario is happening all over Mexico besides Acapulco.

It was a punch AMLO's face in his visit to Jalisco when the JNGC circulated videos showing off its army with heavy weapons. It shows Mexico is lawless, the government is weaker and has surrendered to the brutal rules of the gangs.

Mexico is lawless? Have you seen the shit going on in Portland? I'm not sure I'd feel that much more unsafe in Acapulco than southside Chicago. If any city in Mexico were to have as many shootings over a holiday as Chicago did during this 4th of July weekend (79 shot with 15 killed including children), the media hype would be insane. We as Americans should really focus on cleaning up our own backyard before we go knocking on our neighbor's door.