Crime, Safety, and the Police

[ClamSlammer]

I took exception to your statement that every cop will steal from you. Clearly, that is not true. And it is inflammatory and fear mongering. In my specific case, if they intended to rob me, they had a golden opportunity. They knew I had a large amount of cash. We were on a dark side road in the middle of the night in centro. I can't say definitively why we were stopped. As I mentioned, that crazy woman coming to the cab and getting out was very odd. But, they also appeared to be surprised to see me in the back of the car when they walked up. So. While it was an inconvenience and a bit intimidating, it all ended quick enough, without me losing a dime.

I am not out here saying there aren't crooked police in Tijuana. And yes, the quotas they pay their superiors is well known and well documented. But stating all police WILL rob you serves nothing but to put fear in people. Why wasn't I robbed? Why were we stopped? I don't know. But I do believe speaking to them firmly but with respect helped my cause.

OK, let me clear things up a little. There's probably several hundred Tijuana police officers. Obviously not every single one is a thief. But the overwhelming majority are. What I am saying is that if you are stopped and searched for no reason, then the cop's intention is rob you. That applies 100% of the time with ZERO exceptions.

You seem to think that if you are stopped and searched and not robbed, the cops didn't necessarily intend to rob you. That is ridiculous. You really think Tijuana cops give a shit about taking drugs off the street? In the Zona there are dealers selling dope out in the open like tamales and the cops don't give a fuck. And you think that they really give a shit if some white, fat, balding, middle aged gringo monger is carrying drugs? They don't. Their only motive to stop and search without probable cause is pure robbery.

Be glad to let you know, since clearly you missed the posts where I explained it. They looked in my wallet that had $200. What did they do? They handed it back to me. All of it. And sent me on my way. Any other questions?

Yes I have a question: why did the cops break the law and stop and search you without probable cause? They intended to rob you, period. Just because they didn't actually take anything doesn't mean that robbery wasn't their motive in stopping you. Whether they actually follow through with the robbery or not depends on a variety of circumstances including how much money you have, your demeanor, how scare you appear, potential witness, whether you're a tourist or local, how likely you are to report them, etc.

[ClamSlammer]

Mr. Phordphan...I've noticed that when the intellectual points made by a writer cannot be countered the personal attacks start.

Unfortunately, you are all too correct here. And it seems to be a frequent pattern for a particular poster here: write nonsense-get corrected by a factual, educated post-respond with personal attacks. I've found myself in a similar position to yours more than once. I don't see why posters can't just admit a mistake then move on, instead of personally attacking the person who proved them wrong.

[Dcrist0527]

Did you read any of the numerous posts of victims of the Tijuana policia on the website? You were likely in a public area with lots of witnesses and the policia were afraid to rob you in public. Here are recent victim's accounts:...

First, as I mentioned to you, this was a dark, deserted street in the middle of the night. The only witness in sight was the taxi driver. Second, recent? That article was from 2015.

I'm just done with this discussion. You are not wrong. Bad things happen in some police interactions. I'm merely saying not every interaction is a disaster.

I dare say that I've spent as many, if not more days in Tijuana this year than most on this board. And I'll also say that the time I spend in the zona is typically in the wee hours of the morning. My point in saying that is if I was less familiar or a newbie, many on this board would scare me from ever going.

[Phordphan]

For the naive true believers in the Tijuana police force, there is a website discussing Policia ripoffs of tourists. It isn't just Clamslammer's opinion on this. "Corrupt Police Scam: Mexico is infamous for its corrupt police, trying to rip off unsuspecting tourists by intimidating them and abusing their power. Most tourists will be happy to pay up after being threatened to be thrown into a Mexican jail.

In the past, police corruption was such a widespread and omnipresent phenomenon in Mexico, that cops even had to pay hundreds of Dollars every week to their chief, in order to be protected against complaints from extorted tourists or locals. They then had to earn that money back, on top of their regular loot, by wringing the tourists even more. . . But beware if you rent a car in the US and drive it across the border, as an American car with US license plates acts like a magnet to corrupt Mexican cops.

TIP: Never hand over your driving license. Make copies before you travel and only hand over the copy. You can them show the original, but don't let the cops get their hands on it, as this will give them leverage to extort money from you in order to give it back.

Split your cash over different wallets or different pockets. If a corrupt police officer asks you how many cash you have on you, you can show him one set of bills and hope it is enough to satisfy his desire for. Never let them notice you have any other money on you, because they won't let you go until they have all the cash you've got. And if you don't have a lot of cash to show, they are more likely to consider you as an uninteresting prey and may even let you go without paying anything. . . ".

http://tourist-scams.com/tourist-sca...t-police-scam/

Naive dude: Flash your roll of cash in front of the Tijuana policia and let us know what happens. Practice your faith in the Tijuana policia and let them know you have a lot of dollars in your wallet! Then get back to the old hands who have visited Tijuana for years and let us know what happens to you!

There is so much bad information in this article I don't know where to start.

If a cop is really interested in you, he'll search you. He may find your hidden stash, too. Instead of this nonsense, first of all, CARRY PESOS. I can attest to the cops' attitude changing when they see you have a wad of MXN, not a wad of greenbacks. Second, KEEP YOUR MONEY IN YOUR HAND if you are searched. The cops have no right to handle your money. If they want to take you to the judge, go. Unless you did commit a crime the odds of them going through with it are small. They don't need the judge to start asking them why they're bringing random gringos into his courtroom for no good reason. And if they want to keep your DL, so what? You have a passport, right? Of course you do. So, worst case, you go home and report a lost DL.

I drive in Tijuana. A LOT. I have driven all over the city. I visit two or three times per month, and I always drive. There are shitloads of cars with CA plates. Lots of Mexicans own cars with CA plates. The only place I think you can make an argument about cops targeting CA plates is in the Zona Norte, where the odds of nabbing a gringo while DUI is quite high.

Over the years I have been stopped exactly 3 times by cops. Once in Mexicali for a not-quite-legal turn that the locals were making (the CA plates may have caused me to get pulled over this time), twice in Tijuana. Oh, and once on the road to Puerto Penasco by a Federal cop. News flash: they have the right to see your license and registration. Just try showing them your license and not actually handing it to them and see what happens. Anyway, in NONE of the cases did they even hint about keeping my license and extorting money. In the Mexicali case I gave the cop 200 pesos to not write me a ticket, I. E. Let's dispense with the colossal time wasting and be on our way. In one Tijuana case I got tired of fucking around with the guy and obliquely offered to pay a fine. He got 200 pesos. The third time the guy got nothing. The Federale never even hinted he wanted something.

I have been pulled over in a taxi when exiting HK, some years ago. The cop went through everything I had, looked in the taxi, thanked me and left. Nothing taken.

10 years ago I was "extorted" for $20 on Revu, back when there were no street lights, and a pair of cops stopped me and my fave before we got into the Hotel Espana. But I didn't know then what I know now.

Some years back a friend was on his way to Ensenada and got lost in Tijuana, stopped by some asshole and extorted for a couple hundred dollars. But my friend was very inexperienced and quite nervous.

OK. My point is that CA plates are not an automatic magnet for shakedowns. There are loads of corrupt cops in Tijuana, but not every one of them will shake you down at the drop of a hat. And if they do, if you PAY IN PESOS, you'll get out of it a lot cheaper. But to say that every cop will rob you is ridiculous on its face. Sooner or later you'll run into a bad cop. The key is to know how to handle the situation. Oh, and NEVER offer a bribe, and always PAY IN PESOS.

[SubCmdr]

Next tell us all about your stable of hos you used to have, Mr. Sugar Daddy. Did nobody talk to you on the other board so you're back here? Guess who's getting ignored here, too?

Mr. Phordphan,

I've only made day trips into Tijuana. So you must have me confused with someone else. Never been a sugar daddy in Tijuana, but I do appreciate the title of Mr. What other board are you talking about? And just a quick check and you will see have any number of responses from my post. I've noticed that when the intellectual points made by a writer cannot be countered the personal attacks start.

Park where you want brother! And may the pussy be with you. Always!

[Travv]

Did you read any of the numerous posts of victims of the Tijuana policia on the website? You were likely in a public area with lots of witnesses and the policia were afraid to rob you in public. Here are recent victim's accounts:

"Same thing happened to me the other night. It was a short chubby police officer. As I got in the cab. I noticed that the cab driver got on his phone and mumbled something. Next thing I know there is a cop behind us flashing his lights. He asked us both to get out of the car and put our hands on the hood. I found it interesting that the cop did not frisk the cab driver and only frisked me. He asked if I had any drugs on me. I told him no. He emptied out my pockets and took my money out of my wallet. The cab driver distracted me by asking what I did for a living. I guess when I turned to talk to him during that split second. The cop took $80 out of my wallet. The cop let us go. The cab driver kept apologizing, but I suspect he was in on it as well."

"This past Saturday night a Friend drop me off on the east border crossing, and a policia truck waved me down and tried to take me down to there station accusing me of being on drugs. They were about to take me until I called my friend who lives out there and he talk to them. They let me go with $200 still my wallet but I heard them say the spot where we were that had cameras."

You should trust old Tijuana hands like Clamslammer who has been around and knows the score. You are swimming with Tijuana policia sharks and somehow didn't get bitten this time. Next time, who knows what they will do to you?

Be glad to let you know, since clearly you missed the posts where I explained it. They looked in my wallet that had $200. What did they do? They handed it back to me. All of it. And sent me on my way. Any other questions?

And I am not waving the blue flag for Tijuana police. There are plenty of corrupt cops. Again, as I said, their mordidas and superiors' bribes are well known and well documented. I'll say it once more and then I'm done repeating myself. My issue is with the statement was that "every" officer "will" rob you. I don't think Clam needs any backup and you do make some valid points. But, the sky isn't falling.

The funny part of this board. People complain that HK is horrible. The police rob everyone at every opportunity. Yet, people continue to come. Tijuana is not hurting for gringos and HK is making quite the profit. I just ask myself, if it is as bad as some portray it, why do people go there? Why do the doom and gloomers still go?

[Asting]

"If you girl starts acting up, then you fuck her friend" - Sugerhill Gang.

I agree! LOL.

[Dcrist0527]

Naive dude: Flash your roll of cash in front of the Tijuana policia and let us know what happens. Practice your faith in the Tijuana policia and let them know you have a lot of dollars in your wallet! Then get back to the old hands who have visited Tijuana for years and let us know what happens to you!

Be glad to let you know, since clearly you missed the posts where I explained it. They looked in my wallet that had $200. What did they do? They handed it back to me. All of it. And sent me on my way. Any other questions?

And I am not waving the blue flag for Tijuana police. There are plenty of corrupt cops. Again, as I said, their mordidas and superiors' bribes are well known and well documented. I'll say it once more and then I'm done repeating myself. My issue is with the statement was that "every" officer "will" rob you. I don't think Clam needs any backup and you do make some valid points. But, the sky isn't falling.

The funny part of this board. People complain that HK is horrible. The police rob everyone at every opportunity. Yet, people continue to come. Tijuana is not hurting for gringos and HK is making quite the profit. I just ask myself, if it is as bad as some portray it, why do people go there? Why do the doom and gloomers still go?

[ClamSlammer]

Actually the idea the the market is fair and free is an outdated concept. Let me update you on something that which my college academic advisor collaborated that won a Nobel prize for economics. The concept was Bounded Rationality. His name was James G. March. Furthering the work Richard Thaler also won it in 2017 for his work on limited rationality. That addresses the participants in the market. Furthermore you go on to contradict yourself in your post about the "invisible hand at work" by illustrating the direct effect the government is having on supply and demand in that particular market. It does not matter if the government has entered the market to buy land directly, subsidizing farmers, dumping oil from the strategic reserve or implementing regulations, any intervention means that Adam Smith's invisible hand is being held by the government very visible one. Knocking that theory down like a dick in the dirt.

SubCmdr, your post makes perfect sense for those who are educated in the science of economics and are able understand advanced concepts. Then there are those who think what they learned in high school economics class is the know-all-end-all of economics. They were never educated beyond the basic concepts taught in high school such as supply and demand and the invisible hand. It's like a goldfish in a bowl that is incapable of being aware of a whole other world / universe outside it's bowl. It's easy to identify these high-school economics scholars because they tend to resort to personal attacks after being proven wrong. Perhaps it is wiser to just stick to Zona-related topics here as some members here are not quite as versed in economics as you are.

That being said, park wherever you want and cross whenever and wherever you want. I don't park in the lots on the USA Side so I don't keep track of price increases. But if one lot increases their price, others will follow suit, that is until the prices rise to a point where it is attractive to open a new lot, thus increasing supply and stabilizing prices. Perhaps some day they will build a parking megastructure like there is on the Tijuana side which would hopefully provide mongers a secure, convenient parking location at a reasonable price.

[Travv]

For the naive true believers in the Tijuana police force, there is a website discussing Policia ripoffs of tourists. It isn't just Clamslammer's opinion on this. "Corrupt Police Scam: Mexico is infamous for its corrupt police, trying to rip off unsuspecting tourists by intimidating them and abusing their power. Most tourists will be happy to pay up after being threatened to be thrown into a Mexican jail.

In the past, police corruption was such a widespread and omnipresent phenomenon in Mexico, that cops even had to pay hundreds of Dollars every week to their chief, in order to be protected against complaints from extorted tourists or locals. They then had to earn that money back, on top of their regular loot, by wringing the tourists even more. . . But beware if you rent a car in the US and drive it across the border, as an American car with US license plates acts like a magnet to corrupt Mexican cops.

TIP: Never hand over your driving license. Make copies before you travel and only hand over the copy. You can them show the original, but don't let the cops get their hands on it, as this will give them leverage to extort money from you in order to give it back.

Split your cash over different wallets or different pockets. If a corrupt police officer asks you how many cash you have on you, you can show him one set of bills and hope it is enough to satisfy his desire for. Never let them notice you have any other money on you, because they won't let you go until they have all the cash you've got. And if you don't have a lot of cash to show, they are more likely to consider you as an uninteresting prey and may even let you go without paying anything. . . ".

http://tourist-scams.com/tourist-sca...t-police-scam/

Naive dude: Flash your roll of cash in front of the Tijuana policia and let us know what happens. Practice your faith in the Tijuana policia and let them know you have a lot of dollars in your wallet! Then get back to the old hands who have visited Tijuana for years and let us know what happens to you!

Police in Tijuana pay a bribe to their superiors to get stationed in a good part of the city. Maybe they pay to get away from the dangerous, high-crime parts, but many of them pay to get stationed where they can steal from tourists. Maybe not all police are crooks, but they paid to be in the zona for a reason.

The Tenderloin district in New York was supposedly named that because police stationed there got enough bribe money to afford to eat tenderloin steak. Same deal in Tijuana.

[Phordphan]

Actually the idea the the market is fair and free is an outdated concept. Let me update you on something that which my college academic advisor collaborated that won a Nobel prize for economics. The concept was Bounded Rationality. His name was James G. March. Furthering the work Richard Thaler also won it in 2017 for his work on limited rationality. That addresses the participants in the market. Furthermore you go on to contradict yourself in your post about the "invisible hand at work" by illustrating the direct effect the government is having on supply and demand in that particular market. It does not matter if the government has entered the market to buy land directly, subsidizing farmers, dumping oil from the strategic reserve or implementing regulations, any intervention means that Adam Smith's invisible hand is being held by the government very visible one. Knocking that theory down like a dick in the dirt.

Those are the actual facts of the situation. And facts a stubborn things. Had opinions not been interjected as if they were facts it would have been a much more informative piece. I park at Otay mesa and walk over. Never a problem. Never a line. This also represents another way to handle market conditions you are not happy with:

"If you girl starts acting up, then you fuck her friend" - Sugerhill Gang.

Next tell us all about your stable of hos you used to have, Mr. Sugar Daddy. Did nobody talk to you on the other board so you're back here? Guess who's getting ignored here, too?

[SubCmdr]

It's not in your face anything, really, it's the simple law of supply and demand. Adam Smith's invisible hand at work. Houses, parking spaces, or coffee. If demand exceeds supply, prices will rise. Price is the method used to allocate scarce resources. The other way would be for some unelected bureaucrat to mandate some price he considered to be "fair. " We've seen how well that's working in Venezuela. But I digress.

Actually the idea the the market is fair and free is an outdated concept. Let me update you on something that which my college academic advisor collaborated that won a Nobel prize for economics. The concept was Bounded Rationality. His name was James G. March. Furthering the work Richard Thaler also won it in 2017 for his work on limited rationality. That addresses the participants in the market. Furthermore you go on to contradict yourself in your post about the "invisible hand at work" by illustrating the direct effect the government is having on supply and demand in that particular market. It does not matter if the government has entered the market to buy land directly, subsidizing farmers, dumping oil from the strategic reserve or implementing regulations, any intervention means that Adam Smith's invisible hand is being held by the government very visible one. Knocking that theory down like a dick in the dirt.

Those are the actual facts of the situation. And facts a stubborn things. Had opinions not been interjected as if they were facts it would have been a much more informative piece. I park at Otay mesa and walk over. Never a problem. Never a line. This also represents another way to handle market conditions you are not happy with:

"If you girl starts acting up, then you fuck her friend" - Sugerhill Gang.

[Dcrist0527]

Your naivete is off the scale here. Just because they don't actually steal anything doesn't mean they didn't intend to. So you are saying the cops stopped and searched you because they had probable cause due to you acting very suspiciously? The cops legitimately thought you were in the drug trade due to your actions? There were not 20 other obvious dealers / junkies within a block they could have detained? When mongers riding in cabs / Ubers get pulled over and searched it's because the cops had legit probably cause? LOL.

Bottom line: 100% of the time, with never, ever an exception, if the cops stop and search you while you were doing nothing suspicious, it is because they intend to steal from you!

I took exception to your statement that every cop will steal from you. Clearly, that is not true. And it is inflammatory and fear mongering. In my specific case, if they intended to rob me, they had a golden opportunity. They knew I had a large amount of cash. We were on a dark side road in the middle of the night in centro. I can't say definitively why we were stopped. As I mentioned, that crazy woman coming to the cab and getting out was very odd. But, they also appeared to be surprised to see me in the back of the car when they walked up. So. While it was an inconvenience and a bit intimidating, it all ended quick enough, without me losing a dime.

I am not out here saying there aren't crooked police in Tijuana. And yes, the quotas they pay their superiors is well known and well documented. But stating all police WILL rob you serves nothing but to put fear in people. Why wasn't I robbed? Why were we stopped? I don't know. But I do believe speaking to them firmly but with respect helped my cause.

As Captain said, be firm. Don't be a pushover. Demand respect. And because there are crooked cops, I avoid them if at all possible. But I don't fear an interaction and assume that I'll be robbed "without exception".

[KC Questor]

"Every Single Cop Will Steal Your Money"? Demonstrably false. But the fear mongering will never stop. So users are left to judge credibility. Making broad statements that every single cop will steal your money does nothing to boost credibility in my book.

Of course everyone should be aware of their situation. And of course there are crooked cops out there. But as I, and another posted stated in the last day or so, we each had a recent interaction without a dime taken. Demonstrably false.

Police in Tijuana pay a bribe to their superiors to get stationed in a good part of the city. Maybe they pay to get away from the dangerous, high-crime parts, but many of them pay to get stationed where they can steal from tourists. Maybe not all police are crooks, but they paid to be in the zona for a reason.

The Tenderloin district in New York was supposedly named that because police stationed there got enough bribe money to afford to eat tenderloin steak. Same deal in Tijuana.

[ClamSlammer]

"Every Single Cop Will Steal Your Money"? Demonstrably false. But as I, and another posted stated in the last day or so, we each had a recent interaction without a dime taken. Demonstrably false.

Your naivete is off the scale here. Just because they don't actually steal anything doesn't mean they didn't intend to. So you are saying the cops stopped and searched you because they had probable cause due to you acting very suspiciously? The cops legitimately thought you were in the drug trade due to your actions? There were not 20 other obvious dealers / junkies within a block they could have detained? When mongers riding in cabs / Ubers get pulled over and searched it's because the cops had legit probably cause? LOL.

Bottom line: 100% of the time, with never, ever an exception, if the cops stop and search you while you were doing nothing suspicious, it is because they intend to steal from you!