Crime, Safety, and the Police

[Artisttyp]

Chiquito from the other website brings this recent happening to our attention:

This is maybe one or two blocks past La Perla restaurant.

Atacan a tiros a una mujer en la zona Norte de Tijuana.

El ataque ocurrió sobre * las calles Coahuila why Mutualismo.

TIJUANA, Baja California (GH).

Una mujer resultó con lesiones por arma de fuego, la tarde de este martes en la zona Norte de Tijuana.

LOS hechos se reportaron alrededor de las 15:30 horas sobre las calles Coahuila why Mutualismo.

La mujer fue trasladada por socorristas de Cruz Roja a un hospital con al menos 5 disparos en diferentes partes del cuerpo, por lo que su condicióand es crítica.

Se informó que la Policía Municipal detuvo a una persona del sexo masculino relacionado con LOS hechos, quien traía un arma de fuego why abordó una bicicleta.

[Hargow20]

The two vlass system existed long before the drug cartels became a huge problem in Mexico. Back in the 70'and 80's there was a a lot of drug smuggling. But the violence levels was nowhere near what it is today. Mexico back then had a lot of corruption. Today Mexico has a society that is both violent and corrupt. The other problem is that Mexico jas allowed these huge monop lists like Carlos Slim to control large sectors of the economy.

Sure, that's reasonable. But think about the levels and scale of corruption. You have cartels paying off countless people with more 0's than I'll ever see. That's created a ruling class. And translate that all the way down to businesses paying protection money to street thugs. It's so prevalent and so ingrained that it's just a way of life. And the Mexican economy cannot possibly flip a switch and maintain a comparable semblance of life quality.

I don't see an end until, socially, there is a tremendous revolution. I'm not saying that is impossible. But I don't foresee it in the next decade. It's been part of the social structure for longer than we can imagine, I suspect.

[Dcrist0527]

Sure, that's reasonable. But think about the levels and scale of corruption. You have cartels paying off countless people with more 0's than I'll ever see. That's created a ruling class. And translate that all the way down to businesses paying protection money to street thugs. It's so prevalent and so ingrained that it's just a way of life. And the Mexican economy cannot possibly flip a switch and maintain a comparable semblance of life quality.

I don't see an end until, socially, there is a tremendous revolution. I'm not saying that is impossible. But I don't foresee it in the next decade. It's been part of the social structure for longer than we can imagine, I suspect.

My guess is that much of the street violence can be curbed. But weeding out the corruption and police shakedowns will be a much bigger problems. Part of the problem is that Tijuana has 3 or 4 different police agencies that don't have police radio's with the same police bands. The other problem is that there needs to be more community policing. It is simply ridiculous that the ratero's are allowed to sell drugs openly on the street yelling Quanto's. Having a better system of checks and balances would do a lot to end corruption in Mexico as well.

[Hargow20]

My guess is that much of the street violence can be curbed. But weeding out the corruption and police shakedowns will be a much bigger problems. Part of the problem is that Tijuana has 3 or 4 different police agencies that don't have police radio's with the same police bands. The other problem is that there needs to be more community policing. It is simply ridiculous that the ratero's are allowed to sell drugs openly on the street yelling Quanto's. Having a better system of checks and balances would do a lot to end corruption in Mexico as well.

Very true. I'm also not very confident AMLO, or any single politician, can change it. The issues are so ingrained in Mexican society, sadly, it will be a generational problem.

I think I feel the way I do because I hear more about the bystanders being killed in Chicago. You hear more about the 12 year old shot "accidentally" in a drive by. The reports out of Mexico are far less specific.

In any case, the violence, as I understand it, won't change my plans. Tijuana gets the edge based on the benefits. LOL.

[Dcrist0527]

Very true. I'm also not very confident AMLO, or any single politician, can change it. The issues are so ingrained in Mexican society, sadly, it will be a generational problem.

I think I feel the way I do because I hear more about the bystanders being killed in Chicago. You hear more about the 12 year old shot "accidentally" in a drive by. The reports out of Mexico are far less specific.

In any case, the violence, as I understand it, won't change my plans. Tijuana gets the edge based on the benefits. LOL.

True, most MX murders are targeted. The same is also true for US cities. Continuing with Chicago example - 90% of gun violence that Chicago is so infamous for is gang-on-gang wars, retaliation cycles, etc. If you aren't affiliated with gangs and don't live in gang war zone areas. You have nothing to worry about.

The big difference with Mexico is that a scale of violence is on a different level. And the fact that the cartels run the show. While the law enforcement is corrupt, incompetent and ineffective. Maybe AMLO will turn things around, but I doubt it.

[Ctytek]

True, most MX murders are targeted. The same is also true for US cities. Continuing with Chicago example - 90% of gun violence that Chicago is so infamous for is gang-on-gang wars, retaliation cycles, etc. If you aren't affiliated with gangs and don't live in gang war zone areas. You have nothing to worry about.

The big difference with Mexico is that a scale of violence is on a different level. And the fact that the cartels run the show. While the law enforcement is corrupt, incompetent and ineffective. Maybe AMLO will turn things around, but I doubt it.

Statistically, yes, I agree. Not even close. But that's a slightly different argument than which city is more dangerous. Granted, that's a fool's argument, as it is impossible to know. But I believe (admittedly, I could be wrong), the murders in Tijuana are much more targeted. They are also more brutal (mutilation, burning, hanging, etc.), but that also lends credence to my point. These murders are targeted at narcos. I think that has to be part of the conversation.

[Dcrist0527]

Statistically, yes, I agree. Not even close. But that's a slightly different argument than which city is more dangerous. Granted, that's a fool's argument, as it is impossible to know. But I believe (admittedly, I could be wrong), the murders in Tijuana are much more targeted. They are also more brutal (mutilation, burning, hanging, etc.), but that also lends credence to my point. These murders are targeted at narcos. I think that has to be part of the conversation.

Number of people murdered in Tijuana in July alone is just slightly below the number of people murdered in Chicago during all of 2018.2018 Tijuana murder rate per capita is about 10 x higher than Chicago's. Chicago gun violence is largely contained to a few gang dominated neighborhoods on South and West sides of the city, majority of North side is near violence free. Tijuana violence on the other hand has been spilling into traditionally touristy areas as of late. Several murders in Centro and Zona Norte this summer.

Even if you take relative lawlessness and police corruption in Mexico out of the equitation. Tijuana is far more dangerous than any US city, it's not even close.

[Ctytek]

Number of people murdered in Tijuana in July alone is just slightly below the number of people murdered in Chicago during all of 2018.2018 Tijuana murder rate per capita is about 10 x higher than Chicago's. Chicago gun violence is largely contained to a few gang dominated neighborhoods on South and West sides of the city, majority of North side is near violence free. Tijuana violence on the other hand has been spilling into traditionally touristy areas as of late. Several murders in Centro and Zona Norte this summer.

Even if you take relative lawlessness and police corruption in Mexico out of the equitation. Tijuana is far more dangerous than any US city, it's not even close.

I'd say it's incomparable, but only because of what you pointed out. The dangers are different. Chicago's violence is wide spread and in some instances, more random. In Tijuana, the violence is more targeted. Usually. But the corruption and policing practices exposes you to a different type of danger. You have the shakedown game. But you also have the federales battling the narcos. Again, those battles are largely outside of where mongers hang out. Usually.

To me, it's hard to compare the two. And I'm not sure I'd say one is more or less dangerous than the other. Totally different experiences.

[Dcrist0527]

I'd say it's incomparable, but only because of what you pointed out. The dangers are different. Chicago's violence is wide spread and in some instances, more random. In Tijuana, the violence is more targeted. Usually. But the corruption and policing practices exposes you to a different type of danger. You have the shakedown game. But you also have the federales battling the narcos. Again, those battles are largely outside of where mongers hang out. Usually.

To me, it's hard to compare the two. And I'm not sure I'd say one is more or less dangerous than the other. Totally different experiences.

Chances are = you won't get hurt in Tijuana, if you practice basic safety rules, don't engage in risky activities. But to compare Tijuana to Chicago or any other US city is absurd. The level of violence and associated corruption of law enforcement is exponentially higher in Mexico. Making Mexico far far more dangerous. There is just no comparing US and Mexico.

[Ctytek]

Chances are = you won't get hurt in Tijuana, if you practice basic safety rules, don't engage in risky activities. But to compare Tijuana to Chicago or any other US city is absurd. The level of violence and associated corruption of law enforcement is exponentially higher in Mexico. Making Mexico far far more dangerous. There is just no comparing US and Mexico.

Most of the violent crimes in Tijuana are on the outskirts of town. A lot of it is (like in the US) local on local, drug related, or family related. The San Diego article mentioned crimes in the "safe" areas are all as stated prior. And I think the last shooting near the Hong Kong club was in October of 2012. (Was in the parking lot a half block away.) Not as bad as living in Chicago, where bystanders are getting hit left and right.

[MongerHunger]

Great points, Sailor.

I'm not a fool. This playground has danger. But I do take issue with some of the article. It seems to want to point out that the violence is spreading to tourist areas. And there have been a very small number of incidents in those areas that should raise awareness and even concern. But the article uses a sensational story about a clearly mentally disturbed man to justify the premise of spreading to tourist areas. This was a deranged man in his home. Hardly something to worry the tourists about!

As many have stated before me, the media loves to grab you with headlines and then draw illogical conclusions from faulty logic. We are best served by evaluating the facts ourselves, not accepting the headline or some "reporter's" spin.

I was just in Las Playas de Tijuana about 3 days before that incident. It would have been crazy if all that was going on while I was there. The funny thing is that I didn't see not one police in the beach area or on calle Del Pacifico but I did see ocean rescue there. I have seen more police on San Diego and LA beaches than Tijuana beaches.

[MongerHunger]

Most of the violent crimes in Tijuana are on the outskirts of town. A lot of it is (like in the US) local on local, drug related, or family related. The San Diego article mentioned crimes in the "safe" areas are all as stated prior. And I think the last shooting near the Hong Kong club was in October of 2012. (Was in the parking lot a half block away.) Not as bad as living in Chicago, where bystanders are getting hit left and right.

Just recently there was a killing in the alley near HK where someone was shot and killed. That would be just a half a block or so away near HK's alley entrance. Also there was a shooting on Coahuila near HK last year where a police officer was shot and killed.

[BigBuckets73]

It might be my size or maybe the color of my skin (I'm browned skinned, but not of Hispanic descendancy).

I been going to Tijuana since 2000 and have only got confronted by the cops once. I'll admit I was wasted.

I simply took out my wallet and Passport. They asked the usual question. Where you going. Do you have any drugs.

Want to be safe in Tijuana? Don't go exploring at night. Stay in the Zone or in the night clubs. Don't get at #$tfaced. If you do, get a local hotel room. Sleep it off. Don't ask for drugs.

[Dcrist0527]

Great points, Sailor.

I'm not a fool. This playground has danger. But I do take issue with some of the article. It seems to want to point out that the violence is spreading to tourist areas. And there have been a very small number of incidents in those areas that should raise awareness and even concern. But the article uses a sensational story about a clearly mentally disturbed man to justify the premise of spreading to tourist areas. This was a deranged man in his home. Hardly something to worry the tourists about!

As many have stated before me, the media loves to grab you with headlines and then draw illogical conclusions from faulty logic. We are best served by evaluating the facts ourselves, not accepting the headline or some "reporter's" spin.

Most of the violent crimes in Tijuana are on the outskirts of town. A lot of it is (like in the US) local on local, drug related, or family related. The San Diego article mentioned crimes in the "safe" areas are all as stated prior. And I think the last shooting near the Hong Kong club was in October of 2012. (Was in the parking lot a half block away.) Not as bad as living in Chicago, where bystanders are getting hit left and right.

[Once Sailor]

Most of the violent crimes in Tijuana are on the outskirts of town. A lot of it is (like in the US) local on local, drug related, or family related. The San Diego article mentioned crimes in the "safe" areas are all as stated prior. And I think the last shooting near the Hong Kong club was in October of 2012. (Was in the parking lot a half block away.) Not as bad as living in Chicago, where bystanders are getting hit left and right.