Crime, Safety, and the Police

[Captain Solo]

https://www.borderlandbeat.com/2023/...ance-that.html

" Meanwhile Aquiles control some sections of some neighborhoods in Tijuana, a city which operates quite differently from Mexicali. Every neighborhood in Tijuana is contested by multiple street gangs. These gangs work under larger cartel organizations, such as CJNG, remnants of the CAF, CDS. Mayo, or CDS. Chapitos. ".

You are right. Multiple cartels have been contesting for controls of each neighborhood. La Zona has to be their juiciest real estate and Hong Kong rolls in lots of money every night. HK has been paying Los Chapitos. Now El Mayo Zambada's CDS and CJNG are trying to move in. There is infighting within CDS. Zambada group recently sent out a video threatened to kill Los Chapitos guys.

[Jackie888]

One of the problems with racketeering is that the victim doesn't know which cartel group to pay. The cartel isn't one single group. Cartel is really a generic term we use to describe organized crime, but we should really look at it as the cartel (S). You pay one, and the next day another group tries to kill you because you gave money to its rival group. I suspect that this is what happened to one of the HK owners.

[The Cane]

I met several Colombianas in Adelitas that last year. All were unquestiinably of age, but they were not old by any stretch. Yes, Adelitas had a generally older set of women. But my theory is all of the importation and handing jobs to them vs Mexican girls didn't sit well with everyone.

All the girls pictured are Mexicans by the way. If I want to fuck a Colombiana, then I will go to Colombia. Or Costa Rica or Panama LOL! But in Mexico do as a Mexican does. And fuck Mexican girls (but only the pretty ones)!

[Captain Solo]

SCCB.

The long LA Times' article has some details important to the bros, which can be read only with subscription, had to be posted in full, not just the link. You should not have reposted the whole thing.

My Mexican American friends are well off, told me for at least the last 100 years Mexico always had strong men in big cities' neighborhoods and small towns who rob, rape anyone they want without consequences. Now the cartels are far more coercive and violent, making life far worse for the population.

These friends are tough businessmen but afraid to come back to visit their parents in places like Guadalajara, Monterrey, Michoacan for fear of kidnap, torture and extortion. They know these atrocities first hand, have better understanding of the security risks than the average visitors or mongers.

Mexico has descended into an anarchy and a bloody civil war with war lords, cartels, strong men abusing and controlling the population with extreme violence.

[Sol12]

I had not heard that. I arrived at HK at about 9 PM yesterday. All seemed normal. In my conversations, no one mentioned anything abnormal. Had some drinks with a girl who said she started work at 4 PM. So maybe something happened prior to that?

It was pretty crowded last night for a Wednesday. Not sure if it even maters, but HK seemed to try to step up their "production" on the main stage with curtains, lighting, etc. That's the first time I've seen that. Frankly, I don't care. LOL I don't sit stage side. But for those that do, maybe it increases the experience? I don't know.

Wednesday was supposed to be the Anniversary party and the rest of the week they are advertising a Comic Con party thru Sunday.

[Hargow20]

Part of the problem is that Tijuana is the about the only place you find any good WSW's or light skinned girls at a reasonable price. Much of this is because there have been to many fools that have been blindly giving into the girls prices on the west coast. When many of the girls started working online they charged escort prices. So as a result they started charging these prices on the street.

Some of the SG's have been asking $40-$50 and the quality is mediocre at best. I would be willing to pay $50 or $60 for a BJ from a few of the HK girls. In my mind paying $100 for anything is outlandish. Occasionally I will see Kathy when I want a girl with a really great body. She still charges 500 pesos. The downside is that she does not offer any extra services that I like. This is why I see my usual girl in Tijuana. She is good or better than most of the girls in HK and will do anything to please. I do wish I could find more girls like her at a reasonable price. Before the US girls were a lot of fun when they were still around. In the end the search continues.

"What? You don't like the HK 100% price hike?

Sex used to be about $70 ($60+11 room).

Now it is $140 ($100+4)".

[TomJackin]

That is the longest post I have ever seen in my life.

And hopefully the last!

[Nothing24]

I had not heard that. I arrived at HK at about 9 PM yesterday. All seemed normal. In my conversations, no one mentioned anything abnormal. Had some drinks with a girl who said she started work at 4 PM. So maybe something happened prior to that?

It was pretty crowded last night for a Wednesday. Not sure if it even maters, but HK seemed to try to step up their "production" on the main stage with curtains, lighting, etc. That's the first time I've seen that. Frankly, I don't care. LOL I don't sit stage side. But for those that do, maybe it increases the experience? I don't know.

What I heard would have been around noon or a little bit before that. Heard there was a large group of guys circling HK as well looking for someone in management. Don't want to say much else because it's all hearsay. Just sharing in case anyone else heard of anything. A few girls ended up going home because they didn’t feel safe.

[Scbb1]

That is the longest post I have ever seen in my life.

Dream interrupted: As gang violence soars in Mexico, migrants in USA Rethink plans to go home.

A man in a cowboy hat stands in front of a deserted home in Mexico's Zacatecas state.

Benjamin Carrillo, 44, fled to California for safety after criminal groups invaded his hometown of Palmas Altas in Mexico's Zacatecas state, where his brother's home stands abandoned. (Gary Coronado / Los Angeles Times).

BY KATE LINTHICUMSTAFF WRITER.

Photography by GARY CORONADO.

July 18,2023 3 AM PT.

PALMAS ALTAS, Mexico Like many Mexicans in the United States, Mara Avila worked for decades north of the border with a simple dream: to one day return home.

She toiled at a Palm Springs country club by day, served meals to wealthy clients at night and cleaned houses and mended clothes on the weekend, slowly saving to build a home of her own back in Juanchorrey, the wind-swept pueblo high in the mountains in Zacatecas state where she grew up.

With five bedrooms, a Jacuzzi and a grand entryway capped by a cupola, the hacienda stood out from the crumbling adobe buildings nearby. Avila, 60, and her husband filled the yard with blooming fruit trees. After a lifetime of labor, they were finally making plans to retire there.

A woman in a colorful blouse looks into the sun in the driveway of a home.

Mara Avila, 60, at her Cathedral City home. She and her husband saved for decades to build a house in their hometown in Mexico's Zacatecas state, but violence has disrupted their retirement plans. (Gary Coronado / LOS Angeles Times).

Then in 2020, narcos invaded Juanchorrey.

Within months, the sleepy rancho famous for its fluffy tortillas and a long history of sending migrants to the USA Had been overtaken by gangs who robbed, killed and kidnapped with abandon.

When a horrific act of violence touched a member of Avila's own family, her children begged her not to return.

De LOS.

July 9, 2023.

"For me, that's a no," her youngest daughter, Andy Preciado, 34, told her mother. "I'm terrified of you going. ".

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Avila longed for Mexico for the predawn crow of roosters, the salty taste of local cheeses, the languid afternoons in the plaza with friends. But as she wrote impassioned letters to Mexican leaders pleading for the military to intervene in Juanchorrey, she and her husband, Abraham, began contemplating a very different future.

A deserted town in Zacatecas state, Mexico, with mountains in the background.

A deserted town near Jerez in Zacatecas state. Many Mexicans who went to the USA To work, saving to build houses back home, are now hesitant to return because of cartel violence. (Gary Coronado / LOS Angeles Times).

With some $350,000 tied up in the house in Mexico, retiring in California would be tricky. The couple was still paying off their home in Cathedral City, a working-class suburb of Palm Springs, and figured they'the probably have to sell it and move into a trailer.

As violence engulfs large swaths of Mexico, similar calculations are playing out across the United States, where some 39 million people of Mexican origin reside.

Migrants from particularly dangerous regions are being forced to reevaluate their ties to their home country, with some deciding that returning is not worth the risk.

ESTERO, FL. November 07: Jorge Mejia Avante, center, composer / accordion, one of six siblings who make up the core of LOS Angeles Azules, shown with Edwin Ordonez, left, and other members, performs during the band's 40 Years anniversary tour at the Hertz Arena on Sunday, Nov. 7, 2021 in Estero, FL. Super cumbia group LOS Angeles Azules, of Iztapalapa, a borough of the Federal District of Mexico City, celebrates their 40th anniversary as a band touring the USA. (Gary Coronado / LOS Angeles Times).

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It's a phenomenon that experts say could have profound economic and cultural consequences reducing the flow of dollars into parts of Mexico that have long depended on them and straining connections between migrants and their homelands.

For Avila, who helps lead a federation of Zacatecan migrant groups that over decades has raised tens of millions of dollars for public work projects back home, the whole thing stung of betrayal. She had given so much to Mexico and this was how she was being repaid?

"I've cried, I've prayed, what else can I do?" she said. "My dreams have been thwarted. ".

For many years, Zacatecas was poor but peaceful.

As a kid, Avila would roam the countryside with her friends, exploring hidden caves and swimming in icy rivers. At night, cicadas buzzed and fireflies lit up the sky.

Unused and rusted playground equipment stands in the dust in rural Zacatecas, Mexico.

A playground built with funds from a Zacatecas migrant group in Southern California. Zacatecan groups in the USA Have raised millions of dollars for public works projects back home, but many members are afraid to return to their state. (Gary Coronado / LOS Angeles Times).

But when drought hit, and the cornfields dried up, people went hungry. Many left in search of work, including Avila's father, who moved to California to pick produce as part of the Bracero migrant labor program in the early 1960's. At 18, Avila followed him north and eventually settled in the rapidly growing Coachella Valley.

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Leaving felt like the only way to get ahead, she said. "If you stayed, you could work your whole life and never make enough to buy land, much less build a house. ".

In California, Avila and her first husband worked so much that their children complained they barely saw them. The kids would catch up with their mother when they could, telling her about their days as she changed clothes before running out for a second or third shift.

But in the summers, when the heat arrived and work slowed, Avila and her family would caravan 25 hours by car down to Juanchorrey, often towing a trailer stuffed with construction materials for their dream home.

A third of all people born in Zacatecas live in the USA, according to the Mexican government, with California the center of the diaspora. But as long as migrants had been leaving the state, they had also been coming back.

Charros participate in a traditional parade of horses on a cobbled Mexican street.

A traditional parade of horses during an Easter celebration in Jerez in Zacatecas state. During holidays in the colonial-era city near Juanchorrey, migrants flood the streets, easily distinguishable in their new jeans and shiny boots. (Gary Coronado / LOS Angeles Times).

During holidays such as the famed Easter celebration in Jerez, a colonial-era city near Juanchorrey migrants would flood the streets, easily distinguishable in their new jeans and shiny boots, spending big on food and drink and mariachis.

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LOS ANGELES, CA April 17,2018: LOS Angeles City Council member Jos Luis Huizar representing the 14th district during a council meeting at LOS Angeles City Hall on April 17,2018. (Al Seib / LOS Angeles Times).

California.

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The migrants raised money in the USA To pave roads, repair churches and build baseball fields in their hometowns. They opened corner stores and car dealerships and built sprawling homes with gabled roofs, ornate columns and other architectural touches imported from north of the border. They bought so much land that real estate prices began to be set in dollars.

Rafael Gonzalez, wearing a charro hat and bandanna, rubs a horse's muzzle in a stall.

Rafael Gonzalez cares for horses whose owner lives in Southern California. (Gary Coronado / LOS Angeles Times).

In Juanchorrey, Avila's kids all born in the USA spent their summers getting to know their relatives and local foods. With no cellphone service, they entertained themselves, organizing footraces and dances. To celebrate Andy's quinceaera, the family slaughtered a cow and eight pigs and fed more than 3,000 guests.

"I used to feel safer out there then I did here," said Avila's youngest son, Jos Preciado, 35. "We never locked the doors the only thing we closed was the gate to keep the cows out of the yard. ".

"That doesn't exist anymore," his mother said. "There aren't even any cows left. There's nobody left to take care of them. "

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There was once life in these hills.

That's what Benjamand Carrillo thought as he cut across an empty landscape near the little town of Palmas Altas, his old Jeep a speck of white inching across a vast expanse of yellow grass.

Benjamin Carrillo, 43, wears a cowboy hat at his home in Zacatecas.

Benjamin Carrillo, 43, returned to Zacatecas over the strong objections of his family members.

(Gary Coronado / LOS Angeles Times).

Up until a few years ago, children played in yards here and farm animals grazed in the fields. Peaches ripened on orderly rows of trees.

But now Palmas Altas, like Juanchorrey, about 40 miles south, felt like a ghost town.

As a young man, Carrillo, 44, worked construction in the USA To save up money to open a mechanic shop back home. He was at the shop two years ago when a group of strange men showed up.

As Carrillo changed the tires on their trucks, the men told him that they were engineers who had come to repair a nearby road. But soon it was clear that they were gang members who had come to seize control of the land.

TANCITARO, MICHOACAN -- Friday, August 23,2019: Natividad Arroyo Arroyo, in tree, along with other pickers harvest avocados in Cerro de la Vaina in Tancitaro, Michoacan, on Aug. 23,2019. The entrance to Tancitaro, a population of roughly 30,000, claims it is the Avocado Capital of the World. Mexican cartels have evolved beyond drug trafficking; extortion and theft of the local avocado and timber industries. (Gary Coronado / LOS Angeles Times).

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For years, the Sinaloa cartel claimed the drug routes that pass through Zacatecas. Its members largely kept to themselves and seemed to keep the peace. Zacatecas was long considered one of the safest states in central Mexico.

But then the Zeta gang and later the Jalisco New Generation cartel started muscling in. The new groups had a different modus operandi: They had no qualms about kidnapping residents or extorting money from shop keepers.

As the two groups battled, violence exploded across the state, with homicides soaring nearly 500% between 2015 and 2022.

A man in a cowboy hat stands between two mounded graves in a dusty cemetery.

Carrillo stands in the cemetery where a gun battle took place. (Gary Coronado / LOS Angeles Times).

In Palmas Altas, young men began disappearing, forcibly recruited for cartel warfare. Gang members broke into houses and stole everything of value. When several neighbors were hauled away at gunpoint, Carrillo, his wife and their two young children fled.

They joined his wife's family in Fremont, Calif. , where Carrillo, who has a tourist visa but not a work permit, washed dishes at a restaurant for under-the-table pay. They monitored the situation back home via WhatsApp groups, where the region's few remaining residents reported gun battles in the streets and even in the local cemetery.

Over the strong objections of his family members, most of whom live in Texas, Carrillo decided to come back late last year. Federal troops had entered Palmas Altas, setting up a temporary base at a local school, and many gang members had fled. Carrillo knew it was risky but also knew he wasn't cut out for washing dishes.

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A police officer stands guard at an outpost.

A police officer stands guard at an outpost near Palmas Altas, in Zacatecas state. (Gary Coronado / LOS Angeles Times).

He and his family are among about 100 residents who live in the town now, down from 350 before the gang takeover. There is little work for a mechanic, so Carrillo spends much of his time in the countryside, growing beans, corn and peaches and keeping watch over the homes of people who live in the USA.

In a village called Juana Gonzlez, he parked his Jeep in front of a recently constructed house and pushed open the broken front door.

Elegant chandeliers hung from the arched ceiling and pretty blue tiles covered the kitchen. But beer cans and food scraps littered the floor. Drawers hung open, cleared of valuables except for a handful of family snapshots and Christmas cards. The stove, the refrigerator and several televisions had been ripped from the walls and hauled away.

At the home next door it was a nearly identical scene, with one exception. "They didn't ransack this one quite as hard," Carrillo said, his boots crunching through broken glass. "At least they left the mattresses. ".

A room with a stripped bed, an overturned ironing board and an empty drawer.

An abandoned home near Palmas Altas in Zacatecas. The owners have not returned since their brother and his wife were killed in 2022 and left along the roadside near their home. (Gary Coronado / LOS Angeles Times).

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The owners of the homes are two brothers who grew up in Juana Gonzlez and left when they were young to find work in California. They intended to retire here. But the men haven't returned since cartel members moved into the houses, scrawled gang affiliations on the furniture and last year killed a third brother who lived across the street. The brothers agreed for their stories to be shared but asked not to be named out of fear.

"How can they come back?" Carrillo asked. "Their dream has disappeared."

In Juanchorrey, things were just as bad.

Gang members seized homes and vehicles. They imposed a curfew and patrolled the streets in bullet-proof trucks.

Locals seemed left with one choice, Avila said: "You run. And if you don't, they kill you."

Three separate images show a bullet ridden door of an abandoned house, bullet casings on a roadway, a burned vehicle.

The bullet-ridden door of a house that was abandoned by the owners, above. Bullet casings line the highway between the towns of Palmas Altas and Jerez, below left. A burned out vehicle near Palmas Altas. (Gary Coronado / LOS Angeles Times).

But a few people held out. One of them was the brother of Avila's husband.

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He was staying at the couple's hacienda last fall when an intruder dressed in a ski mask attacked him with a crowbar, tied him up with a cable and stole a safe filled with money and important documents.

In California, the family felt anguish and impotence.

"There's no one to protect you," said Avila's husband. "We're like sheep. The wolves come and slaughter us, and there's nothing you can do about it."

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At birthdays, weddings and other gatherings north of the border, migrants discussed the situation back home in hushed voices, trading news of other atrocities in Zacatecas that had touched people with ties to the USA.

In January, authorities in Jerez found the body of a 36-year-old Ohio architect who had disappeared along with his fiancee on Christmas Day.

In May, a 20-year-old Oklahoma man was abducted, tortured and killed while on a trip to visit his grandparents in the municipality of Valparaso.

Shattered windows with decorative wrought iron outside them.

An abandoned home in Juana Gonzlez in Zacatecas state. The owners fled after their brother and his wife were killed in late 2022. (Gary Coronado / LOS Angeles Times).

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Last year, a 57-year-old Mexican American woman was killed when gang members robbed the house where she was staying in southern Zacatecas.

"Today practically no one wants to come back," said Rodolfo Garca Zamora, an economist who has studied migration for three decades at the Autonomous University of Zacatecas. Most of Garca's own relatives in the USA Who used to return to Zacatecas during holidays now prefer to stay in California or Texas, he said.

He doesn't blame the migrants, whose public cries for help about violence in their home communities have largely gone unanswered.

"The government appears to have no interest and no capacity to confront this tragic situation," Garca said. "The message that these communities and our family members are receiving is: The future is in the United States. ".

TANCITARO, MICHOACAN -- Friday, August 23,2019: Natividad Arroyo Arroyo, in tree, along with other pickers harvest avocados in Cerro de la Vaina in Tancitaro, Michoacan, on Aug. 23,2019. The entrance to Tancitaro, a population of roughly 30,000, claims it is the Avocado Capital of the World. Mexican cartels have evolved beyond drug trafficking; extortion and theft of the local avocado and timber industries. (Gary Coronado / LOS Angeles Times).

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The bloodshed is emptying out rural Mexican towns that had already been drained by migration, he said, and it threatens to cut off a critical source of the state's economy. Last year, migrants sent $1. 7 billion in remittances to the state almost as much as the entire Zacatecas annual budget.

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The violence is also threatening investments migrants have already made.

Four decades ago, California migrant groups pioneered a program in which local, state and federal governments in Mexico matched donations raised by migrants in the USA For their home communities. But those projects have mostly stalled, in part because Mexican President Andrs Manuel Lpez Obrador cut federal funding for the program, and in part because of violence.

"In order for there to be development we need to feel safe," said Lupe Gmez, who leads a federation of civic groups in Southern California that funds development projects in Zacatecas. Avila is the group's secretary.

A man stands in a room with a wall full of portraits.

Lupe Gmez, who leads a federation of civic groups in Southern California that raises money for public works projects in Zacatecas, visits his family. (Gary Coronado / LOS Angeles Times).

Gomez, who was 14 when he left Mexico to pick celery in Seal Beach, still goes back to Zacatecas to visit his 92-year-old mother near the town of Jalpa. But he makes a point to not drive a flashy car or build additions to his family's house that might attract unwanted attention.

"It's like you're inviting the bad guys to kidnap you," he said. "You can't shine in Mexico. ".

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Gomz isn't only worried about the development his state will miss out on if migrants choose not to return. He's also worried about lost connections between migrants, their families and their heritage.

"I worry about people not wanting to bring their children here," he said on a recent hot morning as he walked the streets of his hometown, greeting the few neighbors who remained. "I worry about the kids of migrants not knowing their roots. ".

On Mother's Day, Avila's home in a quiet Cathedral City subdivision filled with the smell of sizzling chiles rellenos. She had cooked them using some of the cheese that she had brought back frozen in a cooler the last time she visited Juanchorrey, in 2019.

As her children arrived, bearing champagne for mimosas and a platter of fresh-cut fruit, Avila greeted them with kisses and heaping plates of food.

The kids have built busy lives in the USA.

Karina Quintanilla, 44, is the mayor pro tempore of the nearby town of Palm Desert. Armando Preciado, 38, is a mechanic for Tesla. Jos works as a contractor with the Department of Homeland Security. Andy is a nurse.

Yet at gatherings like these, where the kids often speak in English and their mother answers them in Spanish, conversations often veer back to Mexico.

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A bull stands in the foreground, with a house under construction in the background.

A house under construction in rural Zacatecas state. (Gary Coronado / LOS Angeles Times).

As they ate, they passed around a video circulating online that showed cartel members toting semiautomatic rifles on the streets of Juanchorrey, and another that appeared to show a group of narcos celebrating with town officials during the annual Easter celebration in Jerez.

"They're just kids," Avila remarked, of the gang members. There was a part of her that could empathize with the young men, she said. She too knew what it meant to grow up poor in a place with few opportunities.

A few weeks earlier, there had been hopeful news out of Juanchorrey.

"Thanks to our pressure, the army showed up," Avila said. "Now some people are returning. ".

"That's great!" said Karina.

"Oh, they come every now and then," said Avila's husband.

"But then they disappear," Avila said.

Even with the army's presence, violence is common. This month, the tortured bodies of four men were dumped along a highway not far from Juanchorrey.

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Still, Avila held out hope that at some point she could return for a short visit just to check on the house and salvage a few prized possessions.

Her daughter Andy hated the idea. Her son Armando was more open. "If that's your happy place, I can't tell you not to go," he said.

Members of the United Front of Community Police of Guerrero pass by bullet-riddled homes in Filo de Caballos, Guerrero, on April 25,2019.

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Jos, a former USA Soldier who deployed to Afghanistan and dreams of an American military intervention in Mexico to stop the drug violence, said he didn't want his mom going back without him. "If I'm going to go, it's not for vacation," he said. "I'm going to go on alert. I'm going to be on guard protecting her. ".

"Let's do it," Avila said with a conspiratorial laugh. "Let's go right now!

The kids recalled long, happy summers in Juanchorrey. They remembered how the adobe buildings smelled sweet after monsoon rains. How the fireflies lit up the night. How you could wander into the home of a friend or relative and always be invited for a meal.

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Andy said she worried that she was forgetting the flavor of the rancho's famous mole. She worried that she was losing her Spanish slang too. And she worried that her young son might never get to know where his grandmother came from.

She sees herself as both Mexican and American, and said the recent violence had stirred new conflicts inside. "It makes me sad that I can't go to my mom's country because of American guns and American drug consumption," she said.

"It makes me sad to see that my mom's retirement plan is gone," she said. "All of her blood, sweat and tears all of her lost time with her kids on Christmas and birthdays it was for nothing?

A woman stands in front of a home with palm trees.

Mara Avila, 60, at her home in Cathedral City. She's worked for decades cooking, cleaning and mending clothes to build a house in her hometown of Juanchorrey, Zacatecas. But the town that once was home to some 5,000 is now deserted, with only about 40 people remaining to brave cartel violence. (Gary Coronado / LOS Angeles Times).

Avila doesn't know how her story will end. She dreams of being buried in Juanchorrey, but knows that she might have to go with the backup plan that Karina devised: Be cremated, with her ashes placed in an urn that would rotate among her children throughout the year.

She said she had learned throughout this difficult process that nothing no house, no future plan mattered more than her family's safety.

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"I would rather think that we lost everything we built than lose our lives," she said.

Cecilia Snchez Vidal in The Times' Mexico City bureau contributed to this report.

.

[Dcrist0527]

Heard they suspended operation of HK for a couple hours yesterday during the daytime. Anybody else hear anything?

Something funny going on.

I had not heard that. I arrived at HK at about 9 PM yesterday. All seemed normal. In my conversations, no one mentioned anything abnormal. Had some drinks with a girl who said she started work at 4 PM. So maybe something happened prior to that?

It was pretty crowded last night for a Wednesday. Not sure if it even maters, but HK seemed to try to step up their "production" on the main stage with curtains, lighting, etc. That's the first time I've seen that. Frankly, I don't care. LOL I don't sit stage side. But for those that do, maybe it increases the experience? I don't know.

[Nothing24]

Heard they suspended operation of HK for a couple hours yesterday during the daytime. Anybody else hear anything?

Something funny going on.

[Jackie888]

Personally I am not all that concerned with the crime in Tijuana The street crime levels have gone down a lot in the past 5 years. Before there were banditlo's that would hang out waiting to mug guys. These days that has pretty much gone away. But this does happen occasionally especially when wandering from the Zona especially at night. I still am cautious however. The main thing is always look behind you. The other thing is to keep abreast of crime trends. Things are most dangerous when the crime is rising. The news and this forum is a good place to keep abreast. My biggest complaint about=is Tijuana.

Is the quality and price. These days there is essentially 2 options. Either go to the clubs and pay $100 min or go with the SG's. The downside is that the quality of the SG's has been going down in recent years. There is only 2 or 3 SG's that I would consider going with. I am fortunate that I have good looking regular that I see on a regular basis. There are many other parts of the world where you can find a good looking girl that will give a BJ at a reasonable price.[\QUOTE=Sol12;2836932]Glad to see you've visited many countries, I'm not sure why you had to make it in bold letters. So visiting these other countries especially the ones you labeled as "dangerous " it makes me go back to the origin of this discussion and that HK is not any more dangerous now compared to the past. I'm not sure how often you had visited Tijuana in the past or even the last time you went. I'm guessing that when you visited yo would fly in so yes I agree that for the price other locations would be a smarter options. I to enjoy flying to other locations to have fun but still visit Tijuana because of friends I see and it's so close.

Most guys go to Tijuana because its easy especially if you're married. I will continue to enjoy HK and will make a friendly wager that HK won't be sprayed with bullets and will let you pick the time frame and who ever loses just has to admit they were wrong here.

[/QUOTE]What? You don't like the HK 100% price hike?

Sex used to be about $70 ($60+11 room).

Now it is $140 ($100+40 room).

[Captain Solo]

Like other businesses in Mexico, when you see prices for ficha beers rise to $15, baby wine bottles $40, ST room $50, Cascada rooms $130.

You know HK's owners settled to skim cash for the cartels along with many federal and local government officials, and there will be no raiding, shooting or torching for the time being.

[Hargow20]

Personally I am not all that concerned with the crime in Tijuana The street crime levels have gone down a lot in the past 5 years. Before there were banditlo's that would hang out waiting to mug guys. These days that has pretty much gone away. But this does happen occasionally especially when wandering from the Zona especially at night. I still am cautious however. The main thing is always look behind you. The other thing is to keep abreast of crime trends. Things are most dangerous when the crime is rising. The news and this forum is a good place to keep abreast. My biggest complaint about=is Tijuana.

Is the quality and price. These days there is essentially 2 options. Either go to the clubs and pay $100 min or go with the SG's. The downside is that the quality of the SG's has been going down in recent years. There is only 2 or 3 SG's that I would consider going with. I am fortunate that I have good looking regular that I see on a regular basis. There are many other parts of the world where you can find a good looking girl that will give a BJ at a reasonable price.

[\QUOTE=Sol12;2836932]Glad to see you've visited many countries, I'm not sure why you had to make it in bold letters. So visiting these other countries especially the ones you labeled as "dangerous " it makes me go back to the origin of this discussion and that HK is not any more dangerous now compared to the past. I'm not sure how often you had visited Tijuana in the past or even the last time you went. I'm guessing that when you visited yo would fly in so yes I agree that for the price other locations would be a smarter options. I to enjoy flying to other locations to have fun but still visit Tijuana because of friends I see and it's so close.

Most guys go to Tijuana because its easy especially if you're married. I will continue to enjoy HK and will make a friendly wager that HK won't be sprayed with bullets and will let you pick the time frame and who ever loses just has to admit they were wrong here. [ / QUOTE].

[The Cane]

I will continue to enjoy HK and will make a friendly wager that HK won't be sprayed with bullets and will let you pick the time frame and who ever loses just has to admit they were wrong here.

I didn't say it would happen. I said proceed with heightened caution. Therefore, if it doesn't happen, then there's nothing for me to be "wrong" about. And for the record, in fact I truly hope that it doesn't happen. So, I'm not interested in making a wager to the contrary for an outcome I don't want to see. Good luck. Have fun. Stay away from the $30 putas wine! And remain aware and have an exit / survival strategy in case you need one. I hope you don't.