Crime, Safety, and the Police

[Phordphan]

Again, these critical problems wouldn't be as prevalent if drugs were legalized and extremely affordable. These people do not want to live on the street but they do because it is the only way they can afford their habit. If their daily fix cost only $1 or less, they would be able to keep their jobs and pay their rent. 99% of these people lived a normal life and worked normal jobs but their came a point in their addiction where the cost of their drugs went way over how much they make. So these people choose the drug over living a normal life, it is the only way they can afford it.

On what planet are drug addicts able to hold down steady jobs and indulge their addiction on their own time?

By definition, an addict is being controlled by something he has no power over. And addict is not a recreational user. An addict is, well, addicted. If they could control it they wouldn't be addicts, would they?

Maybe it's different on your planet, but here in Realville, addicts have to spend every waking moment looking for that high, or being high. There is no time for working, paying the mortgage, dropping the kids off at school, and attending the PTA. If drugs are cheaper they'll just be able to get high more often. There's a reason so very many live in the street.

[Sol12]

Myths are always based on anecdotes and emotions, not on science.

So we should "follow the science". Seems like we've been down this path before.

[DonCarlos1234]

It's going to come as a shock to you, and others, but the vast majority of the homeless are drug addicts. Most are also mentally ill. If we find a way to get the addicts off the street we will put a gigantic dent in the homeless population, too.
I'll continue to look on the bright side. I do feel sorry for those who have to go downtown and get assaulted or murdered by addicts. But it's legal so.

Cali is sooo Fked up with their government & taxes. Good thing Vegas knows what they are doing. (BTW. I do no indulge) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet_13_Holdings.

[Ctytek]

You people should read Carl Hart's book "High Price" or listen to some of his lectures. Dr. Hart advocates for legalization of all drugs, and provides science-based debunking of all the myths about drugs and additction. Myths are always based on anecdotes and emotions, not on science.

https://tedmed.com/talks/show?id=309156

https://www.amazon.com/High-Price-Ne.../dp/0062015893

[Travv]

Offhand, I agree with you on legalizing drugs, but only for sale. This allows the state to collect the taxes from the seller. But make it illegal to buy in order to avoid the "Idiocracy" result of hordes of druggie zombies roaming the streets and creating tent cities that Phordphan noted. Also, it prevents future politicians from campaigning on "Free Meth and Weed if you vote for me, Gavin Newsom", which I am sure is around the corner in Crazyfornia.

Again, these critical problems wouldn't be as prevalent if drugs were legalized and extremely affordable. These people do not want to live on the street but they do because it is the only way they can afford their habit. If their daily fix cost only $1 or less, they would be able to keep their jobs and pay their rent. 99% of these people lived a normal life and worked normal jobs but their came a point in their addiction where the cost of their drugs went way over how much they make. So these people choose the drug over living a normal life, it is the only way they can afford it.

[Clone8884]

Respectfully disagree. Look at what's happening in San Francisco. There's a de facto tolerance zone near city hall and all that's happened is that is is allowing people to die slowly, in public, cheaply and with government sanctioned indifference.

I have known a number of druggies who are homeless. Reason: They refuse to go to shelters because the shelters have rules banning the use of drugs or alcohol. They prefer to get high on the street from selling stolen and shoplifted merchandise. Back when there were vagrancy laws and the laws against theft were enforced, these types would be taken to farms and put to work bringing in the crops, instead of being allowed to roam and steal. Knew one guy who got caught stealing in Tennessee and he was sentenced to work on a cotton farm. Said he wouldn't steal again after sweating his azz off picking cotton.

Again, these critical problems wouldn't be as prevalent if drugs were legalized and extremely affordable. These people do not want to live on the street but they do because it is the only way they can afford their habit. If their daily fix cost only $1 or less, they would be able to keep their jobs and pay their rent. 99% of these people lived a normal life and worked normal jobs but their came a point in their addiction where the cost of their drugs went way over how much they make. So these people choose the drug over living a normal life, it is the only way they can afford it.

[Phordphan]

Based on what evidence? AFAIK, nowhere in this country have they tried it. And it HAS worked well in countries that have tried it.

No, legalization will NOT solve the homeless problem. Nor the mental illness problem. Nor will it stop the war in Ukraine, nor end global warming. Your antipathy towards the homeless and the mentally ill is unfortunate, but hardly relevant to the question of legalization.

What legalization will do is:

1. Take that income away from organized crime, thus reducing cartel violence.

2. Lower the price of drugs, thus reducing petty crimes committed to support the habit..

It's going to come as a shock to you, and others, but the vast majority of the homeless are drug addicts. Most are also mentally ill. If we find a way to get the addicts off the street we will put a gigantic dent in the homeless population, too.

Believe it or not, we're on the same page. I happen to agree with your points. Except, they look great on paper, but they don't work down here in Realville. I don't care what a resounding success Portugal is having. Portugal is not run by Gavin Newsom, Chesa Boudin (not anymore), or George Gascon. We need a solution that will work for CA. I doubt it happens because the homeless addicts are too valuable as a political tool.

1. Legalize and take away the market for the cartels. I used to believe this, but then I got mugged by reality. A good example here is that they legalized pot but most of the market is still illicit. The illegal growers don't want to give up their farms, etc, etc. Here's an interesting article from NPR:

https://www.npr.org/2021/11/07/10533...rket-dominates

2. Legalizing lowers the price of drugs. Maybe. Maybe not. More on this in number 3, but an addict can't hold a job, assuming he wants to. They may or may not even know what day it is. I'm not convinced giving an addict cheaper drugs helps the addict. I suppose he can buy more for the same amount of money, or maybe he just needs to steal less in order to support his habit. Or maybe, with cheap drugs, we get more addicts? This solution is chock full of unintended consequences.

3. Our benevolent government can make out like bandits with all the taxes collected on drugs. And, of course, all that money will go for benevolent purposes. I won't post all the links here, just Google and you'll find article after article stating how CA's marijuana tax collections have not met projections. The industry hates the taxes, and Newsom actually just signed a tax relief bill in June for marijuana growers that will eliminate the cultivation tax. So, already we're cutting back on pot tax. And look at the retail side. The illegal producers pay ZERO taxes, and can pass that savings on to the consumer, or keep it, or whatever. So, the cartels still have reason to exist. And do we have the political will to run in and stamp out illegal farms, much like the Revenuers did in the Tennessee Hills?

4. Standardization of dosage. Sounds excellent on paper. Who will enforce it? Who makes the standards? The FDA? BATF? A new agency? You'll never get heroin to pass muster with the FDA. Maybe we can expand the BATF to the BADTF. Still, how many doctors are going to sign off on the safe dosages of Fentanyl? Can I buy Oxy to snort or smoke? How much is enough? How much is too much? This one will be fun to watch.

5. CA has already "substantially reduced" the amount of money they spend on prisons. Well, maybe the just transferred it from the facilities to the prison guard pensions. We now, in LA, have no cash bail for all misdemeanors. This includes just about every drug crime. So, we have the next best thing to complete legalization. San Fran has essentially open air drug markets in the Tenderloin. How's all that working for us folks in Realville? Downtown LA is awash in derelicts in tents. You can't walk down many streets. A Starbucks is closing due to crime. Needles littering the bathroom, derelicts stealing coffee creamer, addicts nodding off in the chairs meant for paying customers. What do we do? Call the cops? Why? The behavior has been deemed legal by the sheer lack of any consequences. And nobody can force them into drug rehab. So, the prisons are happier. I haven't yet seen any reduction in my tax bills from it. OTOH, I hardly ever go downtown anymore, so I guess I'm saving money that would normally have gone to prisons. I'll continue to look on the bright side. I do feel sorry for those who have to go downtown and get assaulted or murdered by addicts. But it's legal so.

[Sol12]

Based on what evidence? AFAIK, nowhere in this country have they tried it. And it HAS worked well in countries that have tried it.

No, legalization will NOT solve the homeless problem. Nor the mental illness problem. Nor will it stop the war in Ukraine, nor end global warming. Your antipathy towards the homeless and the mentally ill is unfortunate, but hardly relevant to the question of legalization.

What legalization will do is:

1. Take that income away from organized crime, thus reducing cartel violence.

2. Lower the price of drugs, thus reducing petty crimes committed to support the habit.

3. Allow us to tax the drugs, providing income for rehab programs, etc.

4. Standardize drug quality, reducing the risk of overdose.

5. Substantially reduce the amount taxpayers have to spend on prisons and the criminal justice system.

Here's a link to an article on the success of Portugal's decriminalization: https://time.com/longform/portugal-d...iminalization/.

I think those that want to legalize everything try to paint this picture that it will actually make everything better is complete fantasy. Also to compare the US with other countries doesn't work since our laws on other issues are completely different. Many families in California would like to force a family member to go to rehab and help them get back to a better life, yet the laws in California don't allow that, they seem to believe that a person should be allowed to live on the street and eventually overdose and die. If you want to compare other countries and how they handle the drug issue why don't you bring up Singapore. The simple fact is that like so many other things in our country at this time we are divided on many things. Some might argue that instead of accepting it as a society we should stigmatize it more, I'd imagine that if you told a person back in the 60's that a kid was more likely to get high over smoke a cigarette or drink would of been crazy. Yet in our society now kids are hearing or seeing drugs everywhere. I myself would rather have a kid steal a cigarette or a beer rather than go get a joint or have some friend give them something stronger.

What may happen is it getting to the courts and having them give full power to the states like is pretty much what is happening now. I think Portland has legalized most drugs and all I hear is about how bad it is and people leaving the city. Since I don't live their I can't give a honest point of view on the situation. I think most of us can agree that the problem only seems to be getting worse and the politicians don't care.

Last point on this is the homeless usually are people that come to these cities that are easier on them and letting them do drugs as they wish. Over the years downtown San Diego has become very sad. Hortan Plaza used to be a great mall and the stores did great business. Now it's a ghost town just over run with homeless.

[Sol12]

Back in 2008 I was living in Rosarito. There was a military installation en route to the "scenic toll road" just before the Tijuana Beach exit. Soldiers had armored vehicles with cannon aimed at the vehicles passing by. Massive kidnappings, violence shut down tourism all over Baja. The Rosarito police station was attacked by the cartels. I stayed for 6 years. Rosariro was almost a ghost town. The beaches were empty even in the summer. 14 years later thousands of SoCal residents are settling all over there. Parking by the beach? Good luck! LOL I spoke with a Tijuana friend today. He said the MX people in his neighborhood are afraid to go outside (today) and he thinks the Americans will start leaving again. Time will tell if history repeats: https://www.seattletimes.com/life/tr...exico-beaches/ IF anyone on this board currently lives there, please update what you are seeing.

Seems like we were living in Mexico around the same period in time, I was in Tijuana. The military installations have been around for some time and those from the US might be scared seeing them but it's really no big deal in Mexico. They are set up along many highways as you travel around Mexico. I even had a buddy give a ride to a soldier from one check point to another on his drive back from Cabo. He was alone and enjoyed having some company. Poor soldier had to deal with a crazy gringo joking with him about doing cocaine and stuff. I'm sure that poor kid still talks about that to this day.

I think the violence that the news exaggerated and also during that time was the H1 N1 mess and the media hyped that up as well that if you went to Mexico you were going to get this deadly disease. In the summer we would go to Rosarito but usually went to the north beach because we liked to drive our cars down to the beach where we would set up our BBQ and not have to haul everything back to the car. Later the ex and I started going and would stay in front of one of the bars where you could pay for a table with an umbrella and enjoy a day at the beach. If we needed a restroom we would just use the bar. I even got to know the parking guy and he would still let me in the lot when he had a lot full sign out front. So I'm not sure I'd totally agree with your statement that the beaches were a ghost town even in the summer. Now as far as how it was at night and the bars I couldn't say. Like I mentioned in a recent report that I had spent the day and evening in Rosarito after a long time being away and was very happy with all the crowds and it seemed like they weren't just catering to young college kids. Of course they had the Beach Fest these last couple of weekends and from what I saw online and read it was a huge success.

Sorry to hear your friend in Tijuana doesn't live in a safe area. I think in general you have Americans that will visit Tijuana until it is absolutely lawless and others that have never visited just from what they hear and they never will. Also people will continue to buy if they can save some money or believe that where they are is safe. I often thought of buying but with the instability in the safety and the housing prices I would still just rent if I was to return.

[DonCarlos1234]

Hopefully things will get better in Mexico, I love the country and wouldn't hesitate on living there again, unfortunately sometimes things have reach the absolute bottom in order to climb back to the top.

I also hope you get to see other parts of Mexico and have better luck with non working girls. I think you visited MTY and saw a different part of Mexico and enjoyed it.

Back in 2008 I was living in Rosarito. There was a military installation en route to the "scenic toll road" just before the Tijuana Beach exit. Soldiers had armored vehicles with cannon aimed at the vehicles passing by. Massive kidnappings, violence shut down tourism all over Baja. The Rosarito police station was attacked by the cartels. I stayed for 6 years. Rosariro was almost a ghost town. The beaches were empty even in the summer. 14 years later thousands of SoCal residents are settling all over there. Parking by the beach? Good luck! LOL I spoke with a Tijuana friend today. He said the MX people in his neighborhood are afraid to go outside (today) and he thinks the Americans will start leaving again. Time will tell if history repeats: https://www.seattletimes.com/life/tr...exico-beaches/ IF anyone on this board currently lives there, please update what you are seeing.

[TjBrazil]

I was friends with a guy from work who went from having his shit together to losing everything to drugs. Ended up unemployable and then homeless and then died under a bridge overpass. I personally have only done pot so have never tried hard drugs, but what is it about hard drugs that it can't be done recreationaly without destroying your life. Can someone in the know please explain.

[Captain Solo]

It's ridiculous to talk about all drugs across the board. Which specific drugs are you talking about?

Meth is so addictive, fentanyl can be deadly. Meth heads would sell everything they have to buy meth, ending up living homeless on the streets. Make it easy to buy and lots more people will be hooked on it, living on the streets; civilization will collapse.

Legalized or not, the cartels will always find ways to produce and sell drugs that are more potent, more addictive and cheaper, and of course murdering competition, blowing up cities for control. Legalizing drugs will never stop the illegal drugs trade and organized crimes that profit on them.

Addictive and dangerous drugs should be controlled like poisons. Organized crimes should be fought and eradicated for any crimes besides drugs.

[Sol12]

No man you didn't strike anything and you weren't the original poster it is Marksofmagic who talked about his friend in Tijuana hunkering down with his girl sheltering in place. Look it get it people do stupid shit for love, lack of common sense and all that. Hypothetically I would never involve myself romantically anymore to a working girl, too much drama and who know who their associates are not to mention other johns. Anyways you seem like a person who likes to cause drama and post Hypothetical ideas. Common Sense if someplace is a dangerous stay the fuck out of there until it calms down, if you have loved ones there then advice them to shelter in place for get the fuck out too. Not too difficult to figure out Hypothetically speaking that is. "So if all of Tijuana or Mexico in general doesn't stand up to the Cartels they will take over more". I agree but the average citizen can't defend themselves, they aren't allowed to carry firearms for personal protection. Unless you in the military, police, politician, or wealthy LOL. Here is a link to their constitution on Gun Rights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firear...tion_in_Mexico#text=Constitutional%20 rights,-Three%20 major%20 events&text=(translation)%20 Article%2010%3 A%20 Every, those%20 who%20 would%20 carry%20 them. Unless the Mexican Government is willing to change and allow their citizen to arm and defend themselves they will always be victims to the cartels. That and getting rid of the deep corruption in their federal and local governments. But this is all Hypothetical.

Yes I am aware that I wasn't the original poster, I responded to what you wrote about being afraid of the cartel and give into whatever they say. My point and others on this board who have spent a lot of time in Tijuana or have lived in Tijuana is that the news over reacts to everything and things are never as bad as they seem. Yes I think from most of the posts that you make on this board that you have no desire to do anything for a working girl because of your past failure.

It's interesting that you think I like to cause drama, I just have a much different experience with that world and like to give a different insight into what most of you have no idea about. Besides I'm not on this board looking for buddies or a slap on the back from saying how I got X, Y, or Z from some girl and I only paid her X. Which most on this board think that it's best to pay as little as possible and these girls should be grateful for whatever scraps we give them because they live in Mexico and don't need much. Which I always find interesting that some guy should tell some girl how much she should sell her services for. So if you think I like causing drama because I push back on some of the things that other posters make I can't argue with your point of view, but I really only push back on a small part of what I read because if I responded to all the dumb things said on here it would never end.

I mostly like reading about those that have gone to explore Tijuana beyond just the Zona and the stories of those that begin some sort of relationship with bar girls. The chances of it working out are slim, but as I always say just enjoy the ride and don't spend more money then you can afford.

Getting back to the part you mentioned about being dangerous and to stay away, as stated before the news over does it on the violence and the guy that did go to comfort the girl might have a lot of experience and figured the chance of something happening to him were slim, or he is clueless on what was really going on and figured if it was that bad that the border would be closed off. I just know that when I lived in Tijuana and this was going on it wasn't going to stop me from going home to my family. Yes the Cartels have guns but as most people in Tijuana know they don't go after civilian targets, the burning vehicles were stopped and the people told to get out and unharmed. So my point of the people getting together was that they can out number the cartel members but yes it takes a lot of courage and yes it could get ugly in the beginning but it's a price they will have to pay to be free. Yes the people aren't allowed to have fire arms but I'd be interested to know the number of normal let's say middle class residents in Tijuana that have a gun in their home or drive with one in their vehicle. I know of an old friend that claimed to drive with one in his car but who knows. I thought about it a few times living down there but didn't think the GF would allow it, besides one of her friends BF went to jail for a few years getting caught with one.

Hopefully things will get better in Mexico, I love the country and wouldn't hesitate on living there again, unfortunately sometimes things have reach the absolute bottom in order to climb back to the top.

I also hope you get to see other parts of Mexico and have better luck with non working girls. I think you visited MTY and saw a different part of Mexico and enjoyed it.

[DramaFree11]

Based on what evidence? AFAIK, nowhere in this country have they tried it. And it HAS worked well in countries that have tried it.

No, legalization will NOT solve the homeless problem. Nor the mental illness problem. Nor will it stop the war in Ukraine, nor end global warming. Your antipathy towards the homeless and the mentally ill is unfortunate, but hardly relevant to the question of legalization.

What legalization will do is:

1. Take that income away from organized crime, thus reducing cartel violence.

2. Lower the price of drugs, thus reducing petty crimes committed to support the habit.

3. Allow us to tax the drugs, providing income for rehab programs, etc.

4. Standardize drug quality, reducing the risk of overdose.

This will definitely not work. I wish legalizing drugs would solve the problem. Violence, Drug Addiction and homeless are out of control, unfortunately it will take some drastic steps to solve the problem.

[WombatEd2]

I said that legalization doesn't seem to work,

Based on what evidence? AFAIK, nowhere in this country have they tried it. And it HAS worked well in countries that have tried it.

If you have a magic solution that will clean up our streets and wean these people off of drugs, we're all ears. LA has thrown somewhere around a Billion with a be dollars at the homeless problem and achieved exactly zero results, but massively expanded the bureaucracy. So, more tax money is not an option.

No, legalization will NOT solve the homeless problem. Nor the mental illness problem. Nor will it stop the war in Ukraine, nor end global warming. Your antipathy towards the homeless and the mentally ill is unfortunate, but hardly relevant to the question of legalization.

What legalization will do is:

1. Take that income away from organized crime, thus reducing cartel violence.

2. Lower the price of drugs, thus reducing petty crimes committed to support the habit.

3. Allow us to tax the drugs, providing income for rehab programs, etc.

4. Standardize drug quality, reducing the risk of overdose.

5. Substantially reduce the amount taxpayers have to spend on prisons and the criminal justice system.

Here's a link to an article on the success of Portugal's decriminalization: https://time.com/longform/portugal-d...iminalization/.