Living in Brazil

[Fartknocker]

Pro falou,
"- Regular (non mercenary) Brasilian girls can have sex whenever they want to . . .

-Regular (non mercenery) Brasilian girls need time to discover and cultivate relationships, and most will only do with a fluent portugese speaker . . ."

I'd have to disagree with both of these statements.

First of all, I've met a number of quite attractive Brazilian women who don't have sex as much as they would like -- particularly 30-something women with kids. Often they don't want anything to do with young single Brazilian guys (and their bullshit), and they don't want to be a second woman to an older married guy. A charming single foreigner is just what the doctor ordered.

Second, I maintain that Brasilian girls, "mercenary" or not, are the easiest lays on the planet. I have yet to date a Brasileira that didn't give it up by the second or third date. I am by no means fluent in Portuguese, but with a very rough conversational ability in the laguage, I never had any trouble "cultivating relationships" (also known as "getting a garota in the sack").

I agree with Johnny D that shooting for fluentcy in the language is not worth the effort if your goal is scoring poontang. However, I think taking the time to learn how to make basic conversation DOES pay off hansomely. Knowing 20% of the language, you'll get 80% of the benefit.

[Jonny D]

Pro,

Yes, I don't suggest you just repeat the same thing over and over again - you would look like an idiot.

And I think the idea of learning Fluent Portuguese and steeping yourself in Brazilian culture for a few years is a good one - for sure that way you can approach the more cerebral females with more confidence. A very noble plan indeed.

But I was really pitching my advice a little lower than that. We're talking about someone on a 2 week vacation / business trip who wants to make contact in a bar, or even a massage parlour.

For that, I think your plan might be a little long winded, but you know - whatever blows your hat back dude! I am definitely not saying don't learn the language if you have the opportunity, but many people DON'T have the opportunity, so my advice is for them.

To be honest, speaking fluent Portuguese and being up to date on the latest Novela doesn't really seem to improve my score in proportion to the effort. Some may have different experience. That's why life is so interesting, huh?

[Prosal]

About language and regular girls :

- Regular (non mercenary) Brasilian girls can have sex whenever they want to with Brasilian guys, they aren't desperate enough to go with a non portugese-talking gringo with who they will not be able to communicate.

-Regular (non mercenary) Brasilian girls are not impressed at all with the fact that a man is a gringo BUT will be impressed with the fact that a gringo talk the language and know about Brasilian culture, Brasilian books, Brasilian films, Brasilian theater, Brasilian music : being able to talk about the latest hits of Capital Initial or the latest films of Walter Salles will give access to the kind of girls who wouldn't be interested only one second by a foreigner stupidly answering 'sou gringo' to every sentence he hears and knowing nothing about the country he visits.

-Regular (non mercenery) Brasilian girls need time to discover and cultivate relationships, and most will only do with a fluent portugese speaker.

[Fartknocker]

Jonny D said:
"When all else fails, Spanish if you have any might help you, although I have to say it's not going to help you understand Portuguese. This is a hard language to learn, took me 5 years, and I was bilingual with French already."

Well, I've done it both ways. The first time I was in Brasil, I had to rely entirely on my Brazilian buddy to help me out. After I learned a bit of Portuguese I found it infinitely easier to score regular chicks. (--and to score better looking ones. My Brazilian pal is the sort of fucking dog that will always try to score with the best looking chicks in the bunch and leave me with the ugly ones)

For me it took about 6 months of studying solo back in the States to get where I needed to be. I used Rosetta Stone every night for about 1/2 hour. The RS software is easy enough to where it isn't a chore to use. I actually looked forward to studying.

When I actually got to Brasil and tried speaking Portuguese I was really bad, but the studying built enough of a foundation that I picked it up rapidly. After my second week there I spoke well enough to score my first non-pro. After four months in the country, I was spending whole weekends with one girl or another and speaking nothing but Portuguese the whole time. I still can't understand rapidly-spoken Portuguese, and I still have a very limited vocabulary, but I can manage to get across just about anything I want to if the person I'm talking to is patient enough.

Anyway, this forum is for people interested in LIVING in Brazil. My opinion, for what its worth, is that anyone living in Brazil and not learning Portuguese is worst sort of lazy-assed coward. Its not that hard to learn enough to hold a basic conversation. Half an hour a day isn't much of a sacrifice considering how much pussy knowing the language can get you.

[J Wadd]

Good points, Jonny D. I've never really needed that much Portuguese to have all the fun (both paid and free) I've ever needed with every strata of garota in almost every part of Brasil. You're right, man: all you ever have to do is get them to smile.

Ahhh, counting the days 'til I return,
JWadd

[Cash Works]

thanks for the good advice johnny d. especially the point about using spanish. many portuguese words are similar to spanish, but you should never assume that speaking spanish will be understood by a brasillian. many brasillians speak or understand spanish, but it is rather presumptuous to just start speaking spanish & expect people to understand you - you are, after all, in a portuguese speaking country.

i have to agree with you for the most part. if you go around expecting people to speak your language, when you're in their country, you're going to annoy at least a few of the locals. this is the case pretty much everywhere in the world, not just france. i was once discussing this with a brasillian friend, who said that he never had problems getting french people to speak to him in english while he was in france - he would say something like, "excuse me, i don't speak french, do you speak portuguese?" he said a very high percentage would say "no, i don't speak portuguese, but i do speak english."

i think that speaking very little portuguese can actually help in picking up non pros (pros as well) if you can make it obvious that you're trying to learn the language. i think it's part of the maternal instinct or something - teaching communication skills. most women are genetically programmed to teach babies how to speak, they seem to transfer this predisposition to adults who make an effort to learn. we used to refer to these women as, long haired dictionaries. they can actually make learning a language a lot of fun!

i spent about 2 years living in brasil. by the time i left, i was able to carry a conversation with pretty much any brasillian i came into contact with, most were polite enough to not scold me for my rude language, most of my teachers had little, if any education - i learned to speak street portuguese from the girls & other folks you meet on the streets (portuguese da rua) and fisherman's portuguese (portuguese do pescador) since i worked with a number of guys from small fishing villages. i never had any formal courses in portuguese and i never really tried to write it, i was usually able to discern the meaning of written portuguese, but would have to consider myself functionally illiterate. one thing i always thought interesting though, is that while i was able to converse with most brasillians i came in contact with, i had great difficulty in following the dialogue on the television (news programs, etc) or on the radio. this was, i'm sure, partly due to the speed at which they spoke, but was also good for reminding me that i had a lot more to learn.

cw

[Jonny D]

You know, this language thing might be a red herring. You don't need fluent Portuguese to chase girls.

I've found that (not just in Brazil) learning a few things in any language is very disarming. It's good manners, which we know always goes a long way.

First thing you have to learn is to say sorry, I don't speak xxxx - in Brazil, 'sinto muito, eu não fala Portuguese' more or less phonetic. I find it's much better than bluntly asking someone 'Do you speak English?'. Well, try that with a Frenchman if you want to know what I mean - even of they do, they'll say no.

You'll find people will bend over backwards to help you, and in fact the more you fuck it up the better - if your Portuguese is terrible, they won't worry so much about their English being poor!

A few others (I'm sure these have already been posted) simple stuff. Pronounciation if not phonetic in brackets:

Bom dia (in Rio, bon Jia) - good morning
Boa tarde (Rio = tarje) good afternoon
Obrigado, if YOU are male. Obrigada, if female - thank you
Voce tem . . . . = do you have (as in shop)
Voce quer uma bebida? - would you like a drink?
Oi - kinda generic, means 'hi', but also can mean 'pardon?'
Desculpe - sorry (descoop)
da licença - excuse me (lisensa - the ç always sounds like an s)
Fala devagar por favor - please speak slowly.

I find another useful one is to say 'to gringo' (pr. toe). It's a slightly self mocking way to say I don't understand you. Means (obviously I guess) I'm a foreigner. Normally gets a smile, which is what you're aiming for!

When all else fails, Spanish if you have any might help you, although I have to say it's not going to help you understand Portuguese. This is a hard language to learn, took me 5 years, and I was bilingual with French already.

Happy hunting!

[J Wadd]

Natal: Small, regional and boring after about 10 days. Good sex scene for its size, though.

Don't worry about safety so much! You'll be fine no matter how much you're worth if your low-key and easy going.

Anyone know anything about Belo Horizonte over a long-term stay?

TIA,
JWadd

[Cutting Edge]

On the matter of costs Non - pro VS Pro, I'd say a TRUE non pro is much cheaper. Your typical TRUE nonpro is very economical and will actually go out of her way to help you save money. This is the main difference between the TRUE and the PSEUDO non-pro. The PSUEDO non-pro will always try and steer you to towards the mall and drag you in shops, try things on etc then sulk when you won't buy her everything she touches. These sort of girls WILL cost you more than a PRO who just gets her hourly rate and says goodbye.

All the TRUE non pro's I've meet in Rio have been out of towners, either on holiday or going there to study. The trouble with these girls is that you don't know if they are leading a double life(ie married/namorado). One girl I meet there(a student)from BH went to extremes to hide me when I went to visit her in her home city. It was so bad she wanted us to stay/live in the hotel room and have food sent up.

In a smaller town, a girl has to be upfront with you as there is nowhere to hide. I always make a point now of visiting her home, speaking with relations very early on as I've got tired of timewasters. The smaller towns also don't have the problems of the street kids, drug wars etc and you'll soon make friends with the locals.

If you go to Brasil to find a long term partner you need to find a smaller town away from the gringo areas. You also need to decide if you need the company of gringos, I think part of the reason many stay in Copa is that there is a constant supply of buddies.

Undray, what you need to do is travel around first and see how you like places, Brasil can be a funny place, something that works for one guy may not work for another. Some on the board rate Porto Seguro, however I found it one of the worst places for girl action and got called 'gringo' more times in 1 week than 1 year in other areas. I was there during carnaval , maybe this made the difference?

[Undray]

Fellas

Can you guys tell me about Natal, Brazil. I've read your stories about Fortaleza, being a "sex-cty" I really don't want that. I want to go to a decent place in which its safe, hot-warm weather and girls mixed with black, white, indian.

I've heard that Natal is a boring city can anyone clarify this for me?

Thanks guys.

Undray

[Cash Works]

JWadd,

Thanks for the info. If I ever get my business sorted out here in the USA, I think I'll have to make a trip to DC and visit the consulate.

Straight chicks or non-pros:

This is a topic that I always found interesting, not only in Brasil, but anywhere. Depending on what you're after, a wife, a girlfriend that you wouldn't mind introducing to your mother, or a quick lay, it all boils down to your perspective. I was never out to get married, but it almost happened once. I'm sure we've all heard the argument that in many cases, you wind up saving money when going doing the P4P rather than the "free" sex - for the "free" sex, you have to do the wining/dining/clubbing, etc. and there's always a chance you won't get laid after all the effort. P4P cuts through all the crap and you get straight to the good stuff.

While I was living in Brasil, I was usually going after semi-pros, or program girls (garota de programma). I've seen the occasional mention of program girls in the Rio section of the forum, but the brief description sounded more like a call girl than what I experienced when I was there. In Fortaleza, in the mid to late 1980's, program girls would work in other cities (Rio, Manaus, Belem, etc.) as pros for a month or two, save their money, then live in Fortaleza until their money ran out. Some of these girls owned small businesses in Fortaleza (one I was with for a while had a some clothing stands in Centro that she rarely worked at herself, but would get a cut of the take since she owned the tables) or had part time/casual jobs (one worked at a dental clinic but she let it slip once that part of her duties included servicing the dentists on occasion). Most of these girls were uneducated and probably after a husband, but they rarely came right out and said it.

Non-Pros. I had a couple of girlfriends back then who I'm pretty sure had never been pros. They were either college students or had jobs that required at least some education. They varied in levels of "niceness", but they were all looking for a non-Brasillian husband. I found the college students to be generally nicer than the ones who were working (probably due to not having to worry about making the rent, etc). I once dated a Varig ticket agent for a couple of days - sweet as could be when she was in her Varig uniform, total monster when she was in her street clothes - treated waiters as something worse than scum. I almost married a college student - she was always the sweetest thing, but things just didn't work out, partly due to me not wanting to be tied down (I was only 24 at the time) but mostly due to her family, who were convinced that I was the "rich gringo" who was going to support them (I was making less than USD $30K at the time).

I had a friend who picked up a girl at a bar in Copacabana, paid her something like $50 for all night (can't remember the name of the bar, not Help, I'm pretty sure it was a strip join). In the morning, she said she had to go to "Brunch" and wanted to know if he would join her. She told the taxi where to go & it was a private, walled compound with a large house (mansion?) - turned out to be the girls family. She would hang out in the Copacabana bars with the pros and accept cash for sex, not because she needed the money, but because it turned her on. I never met her, but some other friends did & they verified his story, he wound up spending a week with her, but never told me if he had to continue paying for sex.

I have friends who wound up getting married to Brasillians (as well as women from other countries). Some are still married, others are divorced, some are still in Brasil, others have moved to other countries & some have gone back to Brasil after living abroad. They all have kids, most of the wives were knocked up before they got married, some weren't. Their wives are definitely a mixed bunch. Some were pros, some were programas, others were non-pros. I can't say that any of them put up with very much crap from their wives, but the ones that are still married are willing to "bend" a little. The point is, their wives were all Brasillian women, who were looking to hook up with a non-Brasillian man.

CW

[Fartknocker]

JWadd falou,
"As for picking up regular garotas -- well, it's not that difficult, either. Try your handle in a smaller town. Go to the discos and mingle. I score occasionally, but it's an all-night effort. Point is, it's better and easier to score with the sex industry girls. They're often (ironically) the prettiest, too."

I agree that when on vacation its easier and more fun just to stick with pros and forget trying to score with regular girls. However, if you plan to live in Brazil this gets to be an expensive hobby.

When I visited Brazil as a tourist, I thought nothing of dropping $$$ on garotas. After a month or two actually living in the country, I started to see how much I could buy with that same money. To a tourist with a first-world income R$ 200 doesn't seem like a whole lot of money, but its a lot of cash in Brazil. When I was living in Cabo Frio, my out-of-pocket spending cash usually wasn't more than R$500 PER MONTH! This included groceries, eating/drinking out, and the occasional touristy entertainment. I wasn't trying to conserve -- this is just what I wound up spending.

The non-pros I hooked up with cost me almost nothing -- the occasional dinner, small gifts, a few beers on the beach etc. Usually they were pretty happy just to be well-fucked.

Sure if you are looking for same-night sex it can be frustrating -- a lot of them don't give it up till the SECOND date ;-). But if you are actually living in the area, why is this a problem? I usually had two or three girls I was working on at any given time, and every week that went by one of them would finally give it up to me. So I had a regular supply of new ass, plus one or two steady lays.

My advice: if you live in Brazil, stick to the non-pros. Paying for sex in Brazil is like paying for sand on the beach. Use the $$$ to upgrade your bachelor pad.

[Panman]

I lived in Brazil for many years and prefer the laid back northeastern capital cities by the beach. They not very far from eachother so you can always go visit another place if you get bored. Quality of life there could be very good if not better than bigger southeastern cities. Thats because life in Brazil is all about your economic status and if you got enough cash to live in a decent neighboohood, own a vehicle, and spend on clubs and restaurants, thats living large in Brazil. Trust me, feels great having the life of a king couple months a year in comparison to my 12 hour a day shifts in the military at the bottom of the food chain. Considering the fact cost of living in any capital south of Brasilia is by all means much greater I really dont care for some of the negatives JWadd mentioned before. Another great thing is the weather up there, never get below 25 C, only raining seasons which still bring sunny days in between. I agree with Cutting Edge on avoiding Fortaleza to settle unless you can bring some fluent portuguese to show you're not the everyday foreigner looking for some ass. Salvador and Recife have over 1million people and more dangerous so outsiders should apply some caution not to stand out, however they are fun places with lots to see and do. Joao Pessoa and Maceio have very nice beaches. Just my opnion, everyone will have some different ones and i respect that.

[J Wadd]

Cash Works: I'm sorry, I don't know for sure. A Dutch guy I met in Recife still had his original CPF number for 15 years now. SO if I had to guess, I'd say they don't expire(?).

As for picking up regular garotas -- well, it's not that difficult, either. Try your handle in a smaller town. Go to the discos and mingle. I score occasionally, but it's an all-night effort. Point is, it's better and easier to score with the sex industry girls. They're often (ironically) the prettiest, too.

JW

[Rezza]

Fratknocker,

I met some students in porto seguro and banged one of them the beach - one of the best sexual experiences of my life!

I don't speak the lingo and all I did was dance and drink with her in a club a little bit and away we go. It all depends on personal experience and what chances you get with non-pro action IMHO.

It helps if you get out of Rio and the hardcore scene and experience some other smaller tourist town. The girls there are always happy to meet gringos and to give up their pussy just like girls who go away on holiday in Europe :-)

Rezza