Living in China

[Mark17]

Can anyone recommend a good English speaking driver with a good car in Beijing. At a reasonable price.

Looking for one for about a half day. Bringing my Filipino friend from SH to Beijing for some site seeing, and need a car to go out to the Great Wall one day.

Thanks

[Bnlee2]

With whats happening in Chongqing, I feel that they may have more crackdown in various areas just to keep this in check.

The Communist Party really do not want to turn China into a Thailand.

There is going to be more crackdown in south china.

[South Gate]

Crackdowns on illegal activities happen when political leaders wish to show their bosses that they are enforcing the law. xxx city becomes known for widespread prostitution and the mayor or party secretary in xxx city tries to convince the provincial or national government that they are closing the brothels. So they close a few and arrest a few pimps. But the bosses in Beijing and the provincial capital dont really care very much about the result. It is mostly a show. The most telling parts of the stories Joe quotes are the lines about "one in ten migrant workers are involved in prostitution" and practically "every kareoke, massage parlour offers special services when asked". In a typical Chinese city with 4 million permanent residents, there are usually at least that many migrants (4 million). One in ten migrants means that 400000 are involved in prostitution in that city. If a large proportion of these 400000 presumably females lose their jobs in the thousands of massage parlors, saunas and karaoke bars where they work, they will have to return to the villages (unlikely), find other work(difficult to impossible) or find another form of prostitution. So inside of a year, crackdown is over and everything is back to normal. . In another article quoted in this thread, Shanghai 90 percent of Shanghai girls in their 20s report having had sex before marriage compared to only 56% 14 years ago. That is much more predictive of the availability of sex in China in the future than a few crackdowns.

And also this accompanying article in today's South China Morning Post

[Wapec]

Thanks for posting ! Useful for a tired old hand like me ....

Wapec may not ride again (for a while at least)

And also this accompanying article in today's South China Morning Post

[SE Asia Joe]

And also this accompanying article in today's South China Morning Post

Party chief vows to crack down but excessive measures will be avoided

Fiona Tam
Nov 26, 2009

Dongguan authorities have vowed to clamp down on prostitution, but said excessive measures and blanket closures would be avoided.
Party chief Liu Zhigeng , who is under huge pressure after Beijing voiced concerns, promised a high-profile crackdown after central government inspectors threatened to give the city the worst possible crime rating.

While reiterating that Dongguan had to rid itself of its reputation as the sex capital of China, Liu said police and officials should not simply wipe out all entertainment venues.

"Township governments should be aware of the limits of the crackdown. They should not overdo things and seize every venue and club," he was quoted as saying by the Southern Metropolis News yesterday.

Meanwhile, mayor Li Yuquan said Dongguan's reputation as a centre for vice and drugs was a public illusion. "Many people believe Dongguan has a huge number of prostitutes and drug traffickers. That's a misconception," Li said.

"People see so many luxury hotels in Dongguan and think most provide sexual services. That is incorrect. Also, Dongguan has a large floating population, and information is exchanged at a faster rate than in other places. Many criminal cases have been exaggerated by the public."

It was not the first time the mayor had attempted to defend his city's reputation. In July, Li told Hong Kong media that the sex industry operated according to market demands.

"I don't think Dongguan has a large number of karaoke bars and nightclubs - they're all built to meet market demand," he said at the time. "Actually, official numbers show the city has only 195."

The mayor denied a clampdown on "special services" would harm the city's economy. "Any campaign to crack down on prostitution, drug abuse and crime won't affect our economic growth," he told Hong Kong media. "We have strict regulations to manage entertainment venues, and will fight crime as usual."

It is widely acknowledged that most karaoke bars, massage parlours, nightclubs, hotels and saunas provide sexual services when requested. Analysts believe Dongguan will struggle to eradicate prostitution because it has become a key industry.

[SE Asia Joe]

This article appeared in today's edition of the SCMP

SEAJ

Crackdown fails to scare Dongguan's sex-trade veterans

Fiona Tam in Dongguan
Nov 26, 2009

They work in hotels, saunas, massage parlours and karaoke bars; an army of 300,000 whose existence is unacknowledged, whose activities are illegal, and whose industry is irresistibly lucrative and impossible to wipe out.
Dongguan has become known as the sex capital of China, where shrewd operators - abetted by accommodating officials - have built a prostitution empire that is estimated to contribute 20 to 30 per cent of the service industry's total output.



Under orders from the Ministry of Public Security, municipal authorities this month embarked on a high-profile crackdown to rid the city of this stain, which the party chief admitted was "disgraceful". But clamping down is not as simple as closing brothels, jailing operators and removing women.

When an estimated one in 10 migrant workers - between 500,000 and 800,000 people - are involved in the sex industry, the impact of a major crackdown would be intense, especially in a manufacturing hub that was buffeted harder than almost any other region by the economic downturn. Added to this is the resistive power of vested interests: wealthy operators, corrupt officials and others who profit from the industry.

Prostitution was outlawed by the Communist Party after it took power in 1949, but since the opening up began three decades ago, the world's oldest profession made a comeback. Restrictions were relaxed by local authorities, who could either profit from it or who lacked sufficient resources to keep it at bay.

In Dongguan, the scale of the industry attracted Beijing's attention. The city was given until the end of this month to get its house in order; otherwise it would be given the worst crime ranking by inspectors from the Central Committee for Comprehensive Management of Public Security.

Party chief Liu Zhigeng vowed to eradicate the city's sex industry, and severely punish cadres and police who colluded with operators. "Many wives feel anxious whenever their husbands take business trips to Dongguan. It's disgraceful," he said.

However, analysts were sceptical about the campaign.

"A real crackdown on prostitution would undoubtedly destroy Dongguan's economy amid global recession, and this raises the fear of political distrust of Guangdong authorities by the central government," prominent economic and political columnist Jin Xinyi said. "More than 500,000 people could be unemployed if Dongguan clamped down on all brothels, massage parlours, nightclubs, sex hotels, sauna centres and karaoke bars."

According to a brothel operator who has lived in Dongguan for 30 years, the sex industry is highly developed and run in the same way as legitimate private businesses. Recruiting is standardised, training is provided, and marketing strategies are conceived and executed.

A Changping township resident with detailed knowledge of the industry said anti-sex sweeps had come and gone but prostitution had never been eradicated due to government complicity.

"The city has more than 120 top-end luxury hotels and hundreds of other mid-range places that offer illegal sexual services or lease floors to sex operators. Many township cadres are shareholders in these venues and are offered sexual services as bribes," he said. "Successful operators ... have been given important positions at local chambers of commerce and are interviewed in newspapers as public figures."

At a press conference this month, police chief Cui Jian complained that he faced huge pressure whenever he tried to raid a brothel - from cadres who would flood into the bureau and plead on behalf of the operators. And proof of the industry's strength came during police sweeps this month. Only low-level brothels were shut down, while luxury establishments with strong backing continued to enjoy good business.

On November 9, nearly 2,000 police raided low-end brothels, including around 50 in Changan township, where prostitutes charge 50 to 100 yuan (HK$57-HK$114) for sexual services. But 50 kilometres away, luxury hotels in Changping and Houjie townships were overwhelmed by clients, some of whom had to find other venues as the prostitutes were fully booked. An operator identified as He Yan said her well-backed brothel, 20 metres from Houjie's police bureau, was untouched.

On the same night at a mid-range chain hotel in Houjie, operator Liu Qin encouraged clients to pick from one of her 40 prostitutes, saying the venue was protected by cadres and was the safest place in town.

Sex operators from mid-range sauna centres and nightclubs said they hoped the crackdown would not last long, and believed the government had no intention of stamping out prostitution.

"A simple calculation shows you how much the industry has contributed to Dongguan," one operator said. "The average client spends 500 to 800 yuan per visit, which translates into a huge sum when a city has 300,000 prostitutes."

Clients came from all over East Asia. "Many are employed in Dongguan as factory managers or are travelling on business," he said.

Ding Yu , a researcher from the School of Sociology and Anthropology at Sun Yat-Sen University who specialises in the region's sex industry, said factory assembly lines were a rich source of sex workers for Dongguan's brothels.

"Rather than being forced or facing harassment, most prostitutes I have talked to are voluntarily working in the industry after quitting sweatshops," she said. "They regard it as a normal job and are happy to earn 10 to 20 times more than their previous factory work.

"Migrant workers getting rich quickly by working as prostitutes will definitely encourage others to follow suit. I have seen all the female migrant workers of an entire village working as prostitutes."

Pan Suiming , a professor from Renmin University and one of China's leading experts on prostitution, has for the past decade advocated legalising the sex industry and recognising the right to work as a prostitute.

"China's sweatshops have fostered prostitution because female workers don't have other career opportunities," Pan said. "Our surveys showed that 90 per cent of prostitutes tried to find a factory job before working in the sex industry. Many said they were squeezed by sweatshops. Very few prostitutes said they wanted to return to the assembly lines."

[Eaglestar]

In the Shanghai Daily today

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/sp/arti...cle_420589.htm


ES

[Zhuren]

So my big question is "Is it safe? " (Lawrence Olivier, Marathon Man). Would any senior members who have been in both countries care to compare/contrast the two scenes a bit? Any predictions (I know it's hard) for where the best/safest city would be come spring?

My wife is Japanese and we travel back and forth.

1.) There are occasional raids in Tokyo. Usually by the end of the year, when a quota has to be filled. There also were raids during Tokyo's campaign for the Olympics. Some of our beloved swing clubs had been targeted, and some of our friends had been arrested for public indecency.... Both Japanese and gaijin.

2.) In China, if there is a raid, usually (YMMV ) only the females will be checked and the patrons won't be bothered. At least in the civilized places such as Beijing. I once was present during a raid, I was being ignored.

3.) I'd say the safest city in general and for the sport is Beijing. The focus of the raids has moved South. And even during the dry pre-Olympics and pre-60th anniversary times, Beijing's Finest behaved professionally and courteous. With drugs, it's a different story.

4.) In general, if you stay at a certain level of quality, and if you are not making a nuisance out of yourselves, you are fine.

[Captain Yonoi]

I'm looking for some advice from anyone on this board that lives in China now who also has done time in Japan. Over here in Japan, I always feel very "safe" while mongering. There have been no "raids" that I have heard about while I've been in this country. I'm thinking of coming to China to work around April. After researching the China board, looks like there is plenty of fun to be had but I'm seeing the word "raid" all over the board in all the big cities.

So my big question is "Is it safe? " (Lawrence Olivier, Marathon Man). Would any senior members who have been in both countries care to compare/contrast the two scenes a bit? Any predictions (I know it's hard) for where the best/safest city would be come spring?

I've also read a certain post saying something like "It's a huge paperwork hassle for Chinese Authorities to arrest a foreigner, so they usually just let you go". Is that true? This actually happened to anyone?

[FernandoAlonso]

Dash, are you that dense or are you making it up? How long does it usually take you to realize that nobody likes you at a party and that it's time to leave? If you are so big on forum rules, then read the part about the serial antagonist. Seems to be written for you.

Seconded, no contribution whatsoever and now attacking the long term contributors here.

Just leave

FA

[Zhuren]

You should know you are violating forum rules. I have not gotten personal with anyone here. You are calling me a punching bag, a wannabe, clownish and a character. You have a thin skin and a chip on your shoulder but that's your issue, not mine. Have a nice cold glass of Chinese milk and relax. I someday may have to post the opinions of various Chinese girls about Chinese men, now THAT would be insulting to some of you on this forum.

Dash, are you that dense or are you making it up? How long does it usually take you to realize that nobody likes you at a party and that it's time to leave? If you are so big on forum rules, then read the part about the serial antagonist. Seems to be written for you.

[Dash]

My apologies to you.... and others who realy is sick and tired of this character.

On the other hand, could you please read the reason why I think its a good idea to NEVER shut this guy up as per my post page before this?

http://www.InternationalSexGuide.nl/forum/showthread.php?p=955441

This Sir, Mr. BSD WANNABE is a perfect punching bag!

But if you and others really want me to stop encouraging him.... well.... I will.... reluctantly.... do so as he's more clownish rather than much of any harm.

Just IMHO

SEAJ

You should know you are violating forum rules. I have not gotten personal with anyone here. You are calling me a punching bag, a wannabe, clownish and a character. You have a thin skin and a chip on your shoulder but that's your issue, not mine. Have a nice cold glass of Chinese milk and relax. I someday may have to post the opinions of various Chinese girls about Chinese men, now THAT would be insulting to some of you on this forum.

[SE Asia Joe]

SEAJ - Please stop responding to this guy. I have put him on my ignore list but i cannot escape him if you keep this dialogue going. Please.

My apologies to you.... and others who realy is sick and tired of this character.

On the other hand, could you please read the reason why I think its a good idea to NEVER shut this guy up as per my post page before this?

http://www.InternationalSexGuide.nl/forum/showthread.php?p=955441

This Sir, Mr. BSD WANNABE is a perfect punching bag!

But if you and others really want me to stop encouraging him.... well.... I will.... reluctantly.... do so as he's more clownish rather than much of any harm.

Just IMHO

SEAJ

[Loveasiangirls]

You really ARE sauced - aintcha??!!

SEAJ

SEAJ - Please stop responding to this guy. I have put him on my ignore list but i cannot escape him if you keep this dialogue going. Please.

[SE Asia Joe]

Oh, ooops. Laowai? I don't know since she doesn't speak to others when she is with me.

You really ARE sauced - aintcha??!!

SEAJ