Portuguese Words and Phrases

[Lorenzo]

Thanks for the info but looks like its only in Rio.

Hmmm....sorry about that. I thought they had locations throughout the country.

[Hobbying]

Instituto Brasil-Estados Unidos (IBEU) offers a course in Portuguese for foreigners: http://www.ibeu.org.br/. The course has 3 levels: beginning, intermediate, and advanced. A placement test to determine the right level for you is required. I completed the intermediate level a few years ago, but I haven't yet gotten around to the advanced (if I ever will). IBEU is nonprofit, so it is reasonably priced.

Thanks for the info but looks like its only in Rio.

[Lorenzo]

Can someone recommend a Portuguese school or tutor in Sao Paulo?

Instituto Brasil-Estados Unidos (IBEU) offers a course in Portuguese for foreigners: http://www.ibeu.org.br/. The course has 3 levels: beginning, intermediate, and advanced. A placement test to determine the right level for you is required. I completed the intermediate level a few years ago, but I haven't yet gotten around to the advanced (if I ever will). IBEU is nonprofit, so it is reasonably priced.

[Hobbying]

Can someone recommend a Portuguese school or tutor in Sao Paulo?

[Poucolouco]

I just came across this on a Portuguese site. It looks pretty cool so far, but I'll know after a couple of days screwing around with it. I don't think this has been posted before, if so, sorry.
http://penguinroot.netau.net/

Cool site and a great contribution to the thread. Thanks RJ

[Ryjerrob]

I just came across this on a Portuguese site. It looks pretty cool so far, but I'll know after a couple of days screwing around with it. I don't think this has been posted before, if so, sorry.



http://penguinroot.netau.net/

[Cho 637]

Mulher greluda is a woman with a big clit.

Thanks. Who says you can't get an education online!

[Uzinuzin]

Thanks for the very detailed explanation on object pronouns, I'm a sucker for grammar. I can't do much about accent, pronounciation, fluency and my memory let me down on vocabulary, but I ike and can understand the grammar, it's so logical and structured..... though not much help in conversation when you shouldn't think or translate but speak instinctively !

I'm doing the Pimsleur lessons and they do use; eu te disse, eu te vi, eu posso te ajudar ... But it's good to know people (specially in Rio) use VC more often.

[Sperto]

Can anyone tell me what "Greludas" means? As in "Mulheres Greludas"?

Mulher greluda is a woman with a big clit.

[Cho 637]

Can anyone tell me what "Greludas" means? As in "Mulheres Greludas"?

[Lorenzo]

We aren't in any real disagreement. Semantically, the object of a preposition and the indirect object mean the same, but morphologically they are different. But knowing this morphological difference may make the difference between getting an A or a B on your Portuguese final (if you happen to be a student).

Another difference that should be kept in mind is that the indirect object personal pronouns for the first, second (familiar), and third person singular and for third person plural will be different from those for the object of a preposition. The indirect object personal pronouns will be, respectively, me, te, lhe, lhes, while the prepositional object pronouns will be mim, ti, ele/ela, eles/elas. Voce can be used as either a direct or indirect object or as a prepositional object.

The important thing is communication. If you make a grammatical error when negotiating with a GDP, I'm sure she won't mind as long as you communicate the numbers to her satisfaction.

[El Austriaco]

A pronoun following "para" isn't an indirect object; it is the object of a preposition. The object of a preposition is often confused with an indirect object, even in English.

Ok, here's how I see it. Morphologically, you are right; semantically, you're not. The prepositional construction with "para" is very common in spoken Brazilian Portuguese as a substitute of an indirect object like "lhe" to yield "para ele, para elas, etc." As a matter of fact, I don't think that the use of a preposition here necessarily means that it can't be an indirect object, either. Just like in English:

I gave the book to him.
I gave him the book.

Both "to him" and "him" here are clearly indirect objects, right, and the fact that in one case, you have to insert "to" doesn't change this - this is mandatory in English to distinguish the indirect from the direct object. The same goes for "para" in Portuguese (or "a", for that matter).

There is an even stronger tendency for this to occur with VC since, as a former noun construction, it's just natural to use it with a preposition like "para", anyway, which also greatly helps to avoid potential confusion as to whether "lhe" means "him", "her", "it", or "you".

Here's a link to a paper (abstract) discussing the change from "dou-lhe" to "dou para ele" over time in spoken Brazilian Portuguese. If anything, the para construction clearly functions as an indirect object:

http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=c...se&hl=es&gl=mx

Now I have a question: is it ever correct to use "o" or "a" as direct object pronouns for a third person? E.g., "I saw him=Eu o vi." Is this correct? I am almost certain that "Eu lhe vi" is incorrect because "lhe" can be used only as an indirect object.

You're absolutely right, "Eu o vi" is correct (direct object), whereas ""Eu lhe vi" is definitely incorrect. Also note that in combination with infinitives, "o" etc. changes to "-lo", like in "Não posso acreditá-lo". Still, (informal) constructions like "Eu vi ele" or "Não posso acreditar isso" abound; my best guess is because "o" has so little body that it's very easy to overhear when spoken that people prefer to emphasize it more by putting its two-syllable equivalent at the end of the phrase and stressing it. But that's just a guess of mine

EA

[Lorenzo]

Vou dar um livro para VC. (indirect object).

Note the construction with "para", like in "Nao olhe para mim!" So in your example, this would be "Eu dei o meu livro para ele".

A pronoun following "para" isn't an indirect object; it is the object of a preposition. The object of a preposition is often confused with an indirect object, even in English.

A correct example of an indirect object would be "I give you my book=Dou VC o meu livro." "I give him my book=Dou lhe o meu livro." No preposition in either case.

Now I have a question: is it ever correct to use "o" or "a" as direct object pronouns for a third person? E.g., "I saw him=Eu o vi." Is this correct? I am almost certain that "Eu lhe vi" is incorrect because "lhe" can be used only as an indirect object. Comments, please.

[El Austriaco]

i got a bit confused reading about direct and indirect object pronouns used in brazil, it seems it even changes a lot regionaly.

i can specifically vouch for rio, but as sui generis mentioned, in brazil, it's more of a difference between formal vs. informal, so this might apply to fortaleza just as well (in does apply in bahia, too):

the constructions with você (vc) are extremely common and used almost exclusively in informal speech:

eu vi vc ontem na praia (direct object).
vou dar um livro para vc. (indirect object).

note the construction with "para", like in "nao olhe para mim!" so in your example, this would be "eu dei o meu livro para ele".

btw, both "meu livro" and "o meu livro" are used, with the latter probably a bit more common.

so by sticking to vc, you can easily avoid all that confusion.

hope this helps,

ea

p.s.: a while ago, i wrote a very long and detailed post about these issues, so for further information : http://www.internationalsexguide.inf...&postcount=166

[Sui Generis]

as many other languages (such as german, for example) there's two way to speak (or write) brazilian portuguese: an informal one and a formal one. informal speech is heard in the telenovelas, movies, radio shows, on the streets, etc. the formal way to speak (with the lhe or lhes) is used in court, in the governement sessions and in formal meetings. the same thing for the written language.

i don't know for fortaleza but if i remember my portuguese courses at the university there's a real difference in bahia.