Panama City

[YippieKayay]

Agee19 thanks for the report.

Next day, the prima donna routine starts again, has to do hair, etc etc, but when she gets done, she's a 10+. Have breakfast and off to do some sightseeing stuff. We end up at the fish market and the bottom falls out. As we are arriving at the market it starts to rain and she refuses to get out of the cab. Now this is not a downpour but a slight shower. She starts to yell at the cab driver to get closer and he refuses to move, she refuses to get out and I literally have to drag her out of the cab. Well, her hair got wet even though she tried to put her shirt on top of it. And now she's mad at me, refuses to go anywhere in the market, its not her type of place and wants to go back to the hotel. I agree. Pay her and tell her to get lost..

Meh. It almost sounds like she planned to be a pain. This is the problem with some chicks. You need to test drive them before doing an all day thing. Otherwise you don't know what you're getting.

Time for plan B. ... Oh, and when it was time to pay her, she was hesitant to take the money. But she did.

Don't fall for it. The entire thing is an act to stroke your ego. She did not hesitate when you offered her money. She pretended to. If you see her again, the next time she hesitates put the money away and watch her do a 180. You want to have fun when you do these things, and even maybe make a friend but keep in mind it's all a hustle.

Now about the Waldorf. As I said, I always make a reservation for 2. Now who is the hotel to say who I can or not count as person #2. With the exception of Middle east hotels they are not the moral police. I paid for 2 people and that's how many will stay in the room. They did ask for the Drama Queen to show her ID which is fine. But when the Girfriend arrived I said nothing and nobody said anything to me. That being said we blended in nicely. The girls were not dressed like hookers and no one was screaming or carrying on and if I want to bring 3 girls to the room that might be a problem but I can understand that. But anyone who wants to remain under the radar should have no qualms about bringing a girl to any room in any hotel in any city. Just make a reservation for 2.

We've had posts here saying the Waldorf will absolutely not let women come up with you. It really depends on your demeanor and what she looks like.

[DocInHeat]

Another great trip to Panama City. The place just continues to grow and the traffic along with it! Despite staying at the new Sortis Hotel / Casino I found myself heading out to Veneto and Habanos a lot. The poker was fine at Sortis, but never saw anyone playing craps the whole time. Veneto action much better. And then there are the girls. Had a free room at Sortis, but ended up also getting a room at Veneto for convenience. There are now a lot of Cubans entering the arena and a nice change of pace. I agree with other posters: 1) usually just as pretty, 2) better service and 3) cheaper. I could never negotiate the few Colombians I was interested in to below $200. But I will say I did get great service. However I did get equally good, if not better service from Cubans for $100 to $150. BTW, I asked the front desk guys about the hotel closing, but they said they hadn't heard of anything. Also went to Habanos, and yes it was rocking, but it was hot and crowded and harder to see what you were getting. Also, went to take some friends to LE Palace and it still remains very pricey, though one of my friends did take out with Mariana who was a Japanese-Colombian and said he had a fantastic time.

Doc

[MarianoRiv]

First my fellow board members you are correct about BlackJack here in PTY. It is almost all csm. Hotel Panama is pretty good with two hand shuffle games. That being said I agree now that 10 k was aggressive. I am down a little but I chalk it up to learning experience. Now onto the chicas.

Got to the 2nd floor casino bar at Venetto at 6 after fucking around with rooms and room keys for an hour. Only 3 or 4 ladies. None that I was interested in but a couple sat down and chatted up their offerings. One was a big girl but I didn't have my beer goggles on so it was a nice talk. She was here from Cuba. Don't recall her name. I had a couple Atlas beers for 2. 30. Nice! Switched to grey goose and red bull and the price was pretty high by any standard at 13. Walked to manolos but had a rude waiter so I didn't stay. It was now around 7:30 and I walked to Habanos which only had a few ladies but much higher quality.

Martha joined me for a drink. We got a cab back to V and she was my first. We went back downstairs after our in room activities and had a drink. I was on the red bull and vodka for the remainder of the night. Martha left to go back to Habanos and I had a steady stream of ladies. Next was a cute girl that I cannot remember her name and we went up for round 2. I came back down and that's when I lost my learning money at Veneto BJ. By now it was around 11.

A couple notes. Marta asked for 200 but gladly took 100 for one hour. Girl 2 from Veneto took 100. The cab from Habanos back to V was 6. Some cabbies wanted 10. Girls at V were plentiful and I thought very good looking as my expectations were lowered from RTF. I digress.

Onto the rest of the night. I pull another one for tln for 200 but I had her leave around 3 am. I had a great night. Paid / lost more than I wanted but who cares. Drinks were almost as much as the ladies. It's the beginning of day two. Stay tuned.

H1.

Thanks for the report, Hobbiest1. It sounds like you got started with a bang! Keep us posted with the reports! And yeah, they charge a lot for cocktails there, for some reason. To save money, drink bottled beer (try Balboa beer), and pay 3 or 4 bucks for taxi rides. Most importantly, check out La Bocatorena for cheap lays ($15). It's walking distance from the fish market or Casco Viejo, and those places are both recommended to visit, as well as La Bocatorena and La Mayor (next door). Have fun!

Oh hey, here is an example of a casino promotion that I found when I was there: It was at Majestic Casino, which is on the 4th floor of the big shopping mall, next to the Hard Rock hotel. This was for the Chinese holiday called "Moon Festival". The deal was that they gave you a bonus of 20% of your buy-in in the form of promotional chips, up to a maximum buy-in of $1,000. This was on the baccarat game, and I was the only non-Asian person who took part. The play was to buy-in for $1,000 and get the $200 in "funny money" promo chips. You play these chips just like normal chips, and they take them back after you play them, but if you win the bet they pay you in real chips. So the expected value of these $200 in promo chips is about $100 in real money, since you win roughly half the time. I won $120 off of those "funny money" chips. Once the promo chips are gone, you are done. You are not there to gamble. That is the kind of thing I meant when I said to keep your eyes open for promotions. It doesn't necessarily have to be blackjack. A player advantage is player advantage, whatever the game is.

[Agee19]

Once again I would like to thank all of you guys for the invaluable information. I just got back and wanted to share my experiences. I prefer a GFE so I went to my old standby CL and found a few listings. I contacted all of them and got 3 replies, so I made my first choice and contacted her. I told her I wanted a GFE and would like to get to know her via texts so when I arrive it is like we are old friends. She agreed. And we agreed on a fee, $125 for a 24 hour day all inclusive. I contacted the others and said I might need them and would contact them when I arrive. Always have a plan be and see. I told her to meet me at the hotel, Waldorf Astoria, which I will talk about later. I texted her from the airport and said I was on my way. She replied she was excited to meet me, have a great flight etc etc. We arrive at PTY early and I text her to say I will be early. A little attitude from her saying she can't change her plans, so she'll meet me when she can. I check in to the Waldorf, always have a reservation for 2, and I wait in the lobby. When she arrives, I get instantly hard. Super model looks, with the whole thing going. She has a little suit case with her and the weekend is about to start. We go up to the room and play a little and then she says she's hungry, lets eat. But first she has to change and goes from Hot to Hotter. We go to a brew pub and then to a disco in Casco Viejo. Its great, not only do I have a model quality date but a guide as well. But now there are issues, the place is packed with good looking people and she is more interested in her phone (yeah the constant texting is annoying) and checking out the other guys. But I buy her some drinks to loosen her up and finally she says lets go back to the room. I'm in! Well, maybe I bought her one drink too many, she drops on the bed and is fast asleep. Oh well I've seen this before.

Next day, the prima donna routine starts again, has to do hair, etc etc, but when she gets done, she's a 10+. Have breakfast and off to do some sightseeing stuff. We end up at the fish market and the bottom falls out. As we are arriving at the market it starts to rain and she refuses to get out of the cab. Now this is not a downpour but a slight shower. She starts to yell at the cab driver to get closer and he refuses to move, she refuses to get out and I literally have to drag her out of the cab. Well, her hair got wet even though she tried to put her shirt on top of it. And now she's mad at me, refuses to go anywhere in the market, its not her type of place and wants to go back to the hotel. I agree. Pay her and tell her to get lost.

Time for plan B. I call her and she says she can't make it but she will send a friend over tomorrow. I agree. In the meantime I have nothing to do tonight so I go to Veneto. I hated it. It seemed like a Middle school dance. Girls on one side, guys on the other. So I left, outside on the street a chica approached me, she's a 5 and asks if I want to play. OK I say, how much do I want to pay she asks. I said $40 she says $60. I say OK, so we go to a $10 motel. For $60 she was fine. Many of you guys are paying way too much.

Next morning GF #2 arrives at hotel, she's a 7-7.5 but her personality is off the charts. She's my girlfriend. She greeted me with a kiss like we haven't seen each other in a year. I was with her for 3 days and I don't think we spent 14 seconds apart without holding hands. She was my guide, friend and lover. It was great. It was exactly the experience I was looking for and I will return to be with her. Oh, and when it was time to pay her, she was hesitant to take the money. But she did.

Now about the Waldorf. As I said, I always make a reservation for 2. Now who is the hotel to say who I can or not count as person #2. With the exception of Middle east hotels they are not the moral police. I paid for 2 people and that's how many will stay in the room. They did ask for the Drama Queen to show her ID which is fine. But when the Girfriend arrived I said nothing and nobody said anything to me. That being said we blended in nicely. The girls were not dressed like hookers and no one was screaming or carrying on and if I want to bring 3 girls to the room that might be a problem but I can understand that. But anyone who wants to remain under the radar should have no qualms about bringing a girl to any room in any hotel in any city. Just make a reservation for 2.

Now my final comments is about the taxistas. Yes I speak Spanish so I have an advantage. I have been to over 200 cities in 60 countries and I found the PC drivers to be one of the most friendliest drivers I have ever encountered. In most cases the negotiating was done in a friendly manner. I always tell the driver where I want to go and ask how much it costs 50% of the time I got the right answer. The other 50% I said no and gave the right number all except one agreed. The one time the driver didn't agree another cab pulled right up and we got in. Guys, be firm and please don't overpay.

So that's the report. Can't wait to go back.

[GauntMan]

First my fellow board members you are correct about BlackJack here in PTY. It is almost all csm. Hotel Panama is pretty good with two hand shuffle games. That being said I agree now that 10 k was aggressive. I am down a little but I chalk it up to learning experience. Now onto the chicas.

Got to the 2nd floor casino bar at Venetto at 6 after fucking around with rooms and room keys for an hour. Only 3 or 4 ladies. None that I was interested in but a couple sat down and chatted up their offerings. One was a big girl but I didn't have my beer goggles on so it was a nice talk. She was here from Cuba. Don't recall her name. I had a couple Atlas beers for 2. 30. Nice! Switched to grey goose and red bull and the price was pretty high by any standard at 13. Walked to manolos but had a rude waiter so I didn't stay. It was now around 7:30 and I walked to Habanos which only had a few ladies but much higher quality.

Martha joined me for a drink. We got a cab back to V and she was my first. We went back downstairs after our in room activities and had a drink. I was on the red bull and vodka for the remainder of the night. Martha left to go back to Habanos and I had a steady stream of ladies. Next was a cute girl that I cannot remember her name and we went up for round 2. I came back down and that's when I lost my learning money at Veneto BJ. By now it was around 11.

A couple notes. Marta asked for 200 but gladly took 100 for one hour. Girl 2 from Veneto took 100. The cab from Habanos back to V was 6. Some cabbies wanted 10. Girls at V were plentiful and I thought very good looking as my expectations were lowered from RTF. I digress.

Onto the rest of the night. I pull another one for tln for 200 but I had her leave around 3 am. I had a great night. Paid / lost more than I wanted but who cares. Drinks were almost as much as the ladies. It's the beginning of day two. Stay tuned.

H1.

6 bucks for a cab!! To V from H? That should have been no more than 3!! If they want to charge you like 10, and if you can speak some spanish, tell them, Tengo cara de gringo o que? goes for Do I look like a gringo or what? that should get a laugh from them and can either get you the right fee or [CodeWord140] them off

[Hobbiest1]

First my fellow board members you are correct about BlackJack here in PTY. It is almost all csm. Hotel Panama is pretty good with two hand shuffle games. That being said I agree now that 10 k was aggressive. I am down a little but I chalk it up to learning experience. Now onto the chicas.

Got to the 2nd floor casino bar at Venetto at 6 after fucking around with rooms and room keys for an hour. Only 3 or 4 ladies. None that I was interested in but a couple sat down and chatted up their offerings. One was a big girl but I didn't have my beer goggles on so it was a nice talk. She was here from Cuba. Don't recall her name. I had a couple Atlas beers for 2. 30. Nice! Switched to grey goose and red bull and the price was pretty high by any standard at 13. Walked to manolos but had a rude waiter so I didn't stay. It was now around 7:30 and I walked to Habanos which only had a few ladies but much higher quality.

Martha joined me for a drink. We got a cab back to V and she was my first. We went back downstairs after our in room activities and had a drink. I was on the red bull and vodka for the remainder of the night. Martha left to go back to Habanos and I had a steady stream of ladies. Next was a cute girl that I cannot remember her name and we went up for round 2. I came back down and that's when I lost my learning money at Veneto BJ. By now it was around 11.

A couple notes. Marta asked for 200 but gladly took 100 for one hour. Girl 2 from Veneto took 100. The cab from Habanos back to V was 6. Some cabbies wanted 10. Girls at V were plentiful and I thought very good looking as my expectations were lowered from RTF. I digress.

Onto the rest of the night. I pull another one for tln for 200 but I had her leave around 3 am. I had a great night. Paid / lost more than I wanted but who cares. Drinks were almost as much as the ladies. It's the beginning of day two. Stay tuned.

H1.

[MarianoRiv]

Hotel Panama is the best place to play black jack in any country or casino I have ever been in. Has the best odds of any casino which favor the customer. Can double down on any 11. Even if its a 3 or 4 card 11. Not just first 2 cards.

Automatic win for a 5 card non bust without the Ace. I guess when we were kids we called it 5 card charley.

Can split Aces as many times as you like. Can surrender and other quirks I am forgetting.

They have a lucky Player card and other promotions like Joker in deck pays $50 etc. They hand shuffle.

Do not play in the front go to the back area that is where the hand shuffled games are.

Let me preface this by saying the last time I was there about 10 months ago, they were starting to change tables around and move slot machines around. So they may have switched things up. I'm not sure.

Also, No offense Hobbiest but, I am always skeptical at anyone who says they do well for themselves or consistently make money playing BJ. If you or I or anyone else were that good and we could make $10,000 in a weeklong trip I know speaking for myself I would be doing it as a job. There are very few (probably less than 100) people in the world who can actually make money consistently and a living playing BJ. Hope you get lucky and make money in panama but, that is really what it will boil down to no matter where you play. Luck.

Now this is a great post! I'm sorry that I can't confirm these rules, because I don't think these rules were in effect last November when I was there, but if this game is available with these rules, they are excellent. I mean, shit, if you find some promotion where there is a joker in the deck worth $50, you have an advantage starting off at the top of the deck! Not to mention all those other good rules, too!

I must agree with Mfins' assessment that it was eyebrow-raising and surprising to read such an optimistic expectation of such a big win (10 k). I think there is one scenario where this could be possible (legally). And that it that if someone were a very "high roller" then they can play extremely high limits in the Trump VIP casino (on the 66th floor). Table max was $5,000! But that is machine shuffled, and would entail playing at a disadvantage. No skill involved, just trying to get a lucky win.

[MarianoRiv]

You are correct. The games with a shoe and not a machine reshuffling are not Blackjack but in fact variants of it which are rarely worth playing. The odds tend to be bad in those variants.

Thanks YippieKayay, I think you are right about that, definitely at the Continental hotel, and almost all the other places, too. I was surprised that the Veneto had one pit (the one close to the bar / elevator area) where there were no shuffling machines at any of the tables, including blackjack. It seemed like that pit was only open on busy weekend nights, but there were a few blackjack games there, along with the blackjack variant game. In addition, I saw at least one or two weak shuffles there. The El Panama hotel (Crown Casino) had one good game, but in general I don't think there is too much out there. For example, I didn't see anything good in the Trump casino, although that is a rather nice place! (Also, I was surprised to read here that some chicas are working there now! Good for them!

[Mfins]

I guess I would rather just play reds and not get undue attention and just have fun. As you know not every single hand will be reds so I could probably get away with some $50/$100 bets and doubles on those. FYI am a hole carder / counter so I tend to do pretty good for myself. I will def. Check out the Continental hotel area. Thanks Mariano!

Hotel Panama is the best place to play black jack in any country or casino I have ever been in. Has the best odds of any casino which favor the customer. Can double down on any 11. Even if its a 3 or 4 card 11. Not just first 2 cards.

Automatic win for a 5 card non bust without the Ace. I guess when we were kids we called it 5 card charley.

Can split Aces as many times as you like. Can surrender and other quirks I am forgetting.

They have a lucky Player card and other promotions like Joker in deck pays $50 etc. They hand shuffle.

Do not play in the front go to the back area that is where the hand shuffled games are.

Let me preface this by saying the last time I was there about 10 months ago, they were starting to change tables around and move slot machines around. So they may have switched things up. I'm not sure.

Also, No offense Hobbiest but, I am always skeptical at anyone who says they do well for themselves or consistently make money playing BJ. If you or I or anyone else were that good and we could make $10,000 in a weeklong trip I know speaking for myself I would be doing it as a job. There are very few (probably less than 100) people in the world who can actually make money consistently and a living playing BJ. Hope you get lucky and make money in panama but, that is really what it will boil down to no matter where you play. Luck.

[YippieKayay]

Now that I think about it, the hand-shuffled games at the casino in the Continental hotel might be only on the blackack variant, "Canal 21. "

You are correct. The games with a shoe and not a machine reshuffling are not Blackjack but in fact variants of it which are rarely worth playing. The odds tend to be bad in those variants.

[MarianoRiv]

I guess I would rather just play reds and not get undue attention and just have fun. As you know not every single hand will be reds so I could probably get away with some $50/$100 bets and doubles on those. FYI am a hole carder / counter so I tend to do pretty good for myself. I will def. Check out the Continental hotel area. Thanks Mariano!

Now that I think about it, the hand-shuffled games at the casino in the Continental hotel might be only on the blackack variant, "Canal 21. " But yeah, check out that casino. Also check the casino in the El Panama hotel, behind the Veneto. I don't remember seeing anything interesting at the Sortis casino or in the Royal Casino (across from Habano's), but you might as well check out the Royal casino, since you may be visiting Habano's nearby! Try to check out some of the other casinos further away, if you're interested, but I didn't see too much out there. The Veneto has good potential if they open that secondary pit near the bar. No hole-carding opportunities on blackjack, as the dealer does not take a hole card in Panama.

Table max is $200. The reason I said that even red chip action will get attention is because you might have $1,000 or more in chips on the table, and that is a lot, by Panama standards. Same with bets of $100-200. They won't necessarily sweat the action, but will definitely take notice. You might even get "lucky" enough to have an experience with a chip-hustler next to you! Woohoo!

[Hobbiest1]

I guess I would rather just play reds and not get undue attention and just have fun. As you know not every single hand will be reds so I could probably get away with some $50/$100 bets and doubles on those. FYI am a hole carder / counter so I tend to do pretty good for myself. I will def. Check out the Continental hotel area. Thanks Mariano!

Hey Hobbiest1,

It is not completely clear to me if you are a skilled player or not? Are you? Can you provide some information about your background? I will assume you are a skilled player and say a few related things.

First, be aware that CSMs are the norm. Not many hand-shuffled games, but there are some around. When I was at the Veneto, the pit that is closest to the bar used hand-shuffled games, but the other pits did not -- those had machine shufflers only. And that one pit closest to the bar was only open a few days out of the week. Their main pit was the one that was further away from the bar.

Green chip action will make you stand out. You WILL be noticed, and will receive attention, not only from the pit personnel, but from chip-hustlers, too. Do not be surprised if you are approached by women who might sit next to you and try to get some of your chips, one way or the other. Even if you are spreading from $5-200 you will get attention. The heat would be about the same as playing $25 min. The definitive write-up on Veneto chip hustling in on the Wizard of Odds website. (Google it to read the article.).

I was there last year, and there were good games around, but not much. But definitely do as much scouting as you can. Things might have changed since then. Check the casino at the Continental hotel, and those casinos around there, but try to check out some others, too, like the one in the mall, on the 4th floor, next to the Hard Rock hotel. Keep your eyes open for promotions.

I did not see any beatable games in terms of shuffle-tracking or hole-carding, but did see a few games with regard to counting.

Can I ask how you arrived at your 10 k win in a week? What did you determine your E. V. Was? If it's $100/ HR, then you will have to get in 100 hours to have an E. V. Of 10 k, and you won't be able to get in 100 hours of playing time in a week.

If you can elaborate more on your game and your background, I can break it down more.

[RacShack]

Wow, I remember back in the day (5 years ago) I used to call the escalator going up to casino (Venito) "stair way to heaven", can't believe now it's like going up to hell, this place has 0 customer service,(not that it was ever that good) but now seems like staff goes out of their way to make sure you leave their not happy! I don't get it it could be such a gold mine, tonight no AC in casino, big water leak in men's restroom from ceiling, floors and walls disgusting, can't get a drink at table period, Pitt boss was a rude -that's being nice ' fucking girls ask for a drink before even asking your name, what a shame, can't make this shit up, really almost not a good place at all, you will see a couple of chumps that never been their and even them have fake smiles on, boy if anybody know how it used to be to now, Mon night pulled a girl out of their with a good smile all around nice 22 yr old Cuban ,100, get her back to apt half ass massage, tried to put condom on for BJ after making it clear before leaving, she kept trying to get out of going into shower, bingo finally I see why. A scar from hip to hip not just a reg scar, but huge, from bad lipo suction from Cuba, I think her name was Nancy, stay clear! So far all my girls have been pulled from trump casino and parking lot, it's very discreet but their around!

[MarianoRiv]

I have played around the world and I am a high Roller in Vegas at the Hard Rock. I am not looking to make the big kill here but I am staying at Veneto and the things I need to know:

1. Table Limits. I do NOT want to stand out in the crowd. Is $25 a safe table minimum or is it $5?

2. Continuous shuffle or hand shuffle. I want hand shuffle. Where and how do I find it?

3. I have studied the odds for PTY and expect to win big but that's all relative so I want to stay under the radar but bring home about 10 k in 1 week. Thoughts?

4. Additional. You tell me.

I have been around the tables for a long time and understand the game. Any insights are appreciated!

H1.

Hey Hobbiest1,

It is not completely clear to me if you are a skilled player or not? Are you? Can you provide some information about your background? I will assume you are a skilled player and say a few related things.

First, be aware that CSMs are the norm. Not many hand-shuffled games, but there are some around. When I was at the Veneto, the pit that is closest to the bar used hand-shuffled games, but the other pits did not -- those had machine shufflers only. And that one pit closest to the bar was only open a few days out of the week. Their main pit was the one that was further away from the bar.

Green chip action will make you stand out. You WILL be noticed, and will receive attention, not only from the pit personnel, but from chip-hustlers, too. Do not be surprised if you are approached by women who might sit next to you and try to get some of your chips, one way or the other. Even if you are spreading from $5-200 you will get attention. The heat would be about the same as playing $25 min. The definitive write-up on Veneto chip hustling in on the Wizard of Odds website. (Google it to read the article.).

I was there last year, and there were good games around, but not much. But definitely do as much scouting as you can. Things might have changed since then. Check the casino at the Continental hotel, and those casinos around there, but try to check out some others, too, like the one in the mall, on the 4th floor, next to the Hard Rock hotel. Keep your eyes open for promotions.

I did not see any beatable games in terms of shuffle-tracking or hole-carding, but did see a few games with regard to counting.

Can I ask how you arrived at your 10 k win in a week? What did you determine your E. V. Was? If it's $100/ HR, then you will have to get in 100 hours to have an E. V. Of 10 k, and you won't be able to get in 100 hours of playing time in a week.

If you can elaborate more on your game and your background, I can break it down more.

[TellAll]

I am in Panama city now if anyone wants to get together for a few, give me a shout. Definately not Asia.