2005 Rio de Janeiro Reports

[Monger 3]

"A girl leaves the flavela and moves to Rio and sells the service at the market place for more money than she could make in 3 months."

Very few of these women live in or have lived in favelas, guys.

my experience quite the opposite, but I like the brown and black types. In my trip to Rio, all my trades were with chicas from Baixada Flumi-whatever, Nova Iguassu, or the back hills in Minas (and far out), and I loved it. U treat them with respect and charm, and they will bang ur brains out, and at a nice discount to some stuck up loira from Barra or Lagoa or some other barrio that generates stuck up hoes, and about which I can care less about. Dont even compare them to the HELP type. These are the chicas charging 30-50R an hour in random bordellos throughout town, and I have found several 7+ within walking of my apt in Rio.

Gimme the hoes from the Rio equivalent of the hood anyday, especially the newbies 18-20 yrs old. Mind blowing =P

[Rio Bob]

I predict next year during Carnival the exchange rates will fetch as follow:

02/01/06:
1EUR=R$2.56
1$US=R$2.11

This is my prediction for next year. Please hold me to it. I can explain later how I arrived at these numbers. But these numbers will for sure cut the supply of visitors. I mean I seen a record number of guys at Meia Petaca. There were not enough tables. So, yes the natural dynamics of the global economy will change that one square block area on Ave Atlantica.

.

Its funny a couple of years ago I met a big blond from Floranopalis in Help, I spent several nights with her but the dollar was fetching 4 reais at the time and she told me that an American friend of hers who was a financial wizard told her that soon the dollar will be fetching 5 reais and that she was saving all her money in dollars. I hope she didn't wait till now to convert her money as she would have lost close to 50 % of her cash.

[Monger 3]

Dark Knight,

You are right. I even had a hooker in Mandalay Bay quote me 700 for a session and then respond to my my 150 counter-offer, with *lets go*. We are the price setters f*ck all the talk about inflation and dollar devaluation. When faced with it, most girls we end up talking to face the alternative of going home empty handed vs. going home with a cliente...except for maybe the busy seasons.

Add in their embedded cost of being a GDP, like the exit fee at Casquina in Bahia or the entrance fee at Help, and most hoes would be stupid to not accept a severely reduced price from what they offer.

I met a girl at Casquina last week who was working for a week without meeting anyone, and 6 days leaving there empty handed costs 50-100R for the chica. She could either stay broke (or in debt), or take my 100-150R for TLN and hope I enjoy myself enough to give her some cab fare.

[Rio Bob]

b) He's black, as are many if not most of his clients. Black sex tourism in Rio is on the upswing and the local white burghers are appalled. A black American man, dressed straight out of an MTV Raps video, is the current paranoid fantasy of those Brazilians who fear that Gringos Want Our Women.

Yes Copa has changed, like I said before I have been going to Rio now for 25 years and I have seen the most change in the past 3 years. As little as 4 years ago in 2001 I would stop at any one of the termas in Rio and for the most part be the only gringo in there. Most of the other men were Brasilian and seemed to be having a nice calm relaxing enjoyable afternoon in their Rio mens clubs. The last time I stopped in Monte Carlo last year the place was packed withh 100 % Americans who completely have taken over the place, you could barely find a free girl, the commotion was like a college frat party, I saw no Brasilian men.

This boat bust last week I read on another travel board was a group of about 30 from Houston, can you imagine this group entering 4x4 on a Friday evening when Brasilian business men are there to unwind in their own institutions and these guys are drunk, loud and taking over the place and the business men can't find an available girl to be with or have to wait to get sloppy seconds or thirds, do you think this is not going to [CodeWord140] anybody off? Maybe these business men have friends in the police dept and the police are going to target and harass to limit the numbers of these groups from coming in as these business men have had enough and want their peace and tranquility back.

[Liucio]

My response to DARK KNIGHT

Yes, I thing Launa continues to get that price. During Carnaval, I seen her leave with a client every 2 hours. As soon as she got out the shower she was back on Ave Atlantica. I do not think guys are refusing her. Maybe you have seen her sit alone but I never have. I have always seen her leave with someone. I am sure she averages 4 clients per day at $R300 each. Are guy turning her away now? I have seen her leave MEA PETACA with a client then later that night I would see her in BARBARELLA. I would like to know on average what the men are paying. Some men I spoke to will not except the 60 minute girls. They will pass on $R150/60 minutes. But a couple of gentlemen are complaining about the 60minutes after negotiating for 60 mins.

I would like to find out from the men are their prefering 60 mins or the entire night.
At one time the girl would spent at least 2 hrs at least 2 hrs but now they ae demanding 1 hr only. This is new but of course they will make more with 1 hr. And back at the cafe in 60 mins.

As far as the women agreeing together as the OIL CARTEL. It is true I have heard it from new comers they have been told to start negotiating at $R150.
I have been told this by most girls, but of course many will take what they can get.

I have met some men that will not pay over $R90 for any Programa, no matter what season. But of course he speaks perfect Portuguese and he befreind them all. He has even said that he has receive a nice hair cut and had his laundry and clean by a Programa all for $R90.

[Liucio]

Yes, I agree the Centaurus girls are making more money. These are what these call in America the "FRANCISE PLAYER". They bring the money in and they also make more money than the other termas. Plus the establishment is much nicer and pleasant. The woman are of higher quality. They also moonlight meaning they have clients when they are not working. Many of the men that go to Centaurus go there for 1 particular girl that that enjoyed before. They do not go there to choose, they go there for that 1 woman they had last week or last month. They is mainly true of the Brasilian and EUROPEANS men.

The gentleman who said some Progama girls earns $R6000/mo. Are you sure this figure is correct. Maybe during CARNAVAL but not year round. Please explain.

There is a girl that works at BARBARELLA'S that will not except less than $R200. I wonder if this is the same woman we both are talking about. But the nights I was there she was doing very good see was sitting with many men negoiating.

I have to ask the gentleman to stop paying in your currency. Please do not pay in EUROS. Please do not pay in DOLLARS. The veterans are now asking to be paid in the customer currency.

For the gentleman that is taking the girls to the INTERNET CAFE to show them the PICS. Please post why you are doing this. This makes the girls refuse a photo. I am not accusing you of anything worng I just want to know the purpose. Not everyone post the girls photo on the internet. This only makes the girl paranoid of the camera.

[Liucio]

If anyone has negotaited for less than R$150 for the veterans. Please let me post what you have paid if you don't mind. Because all the girls I interviewed will not take less than $R150 (VETERANS). I have seen 1 gentleman negoitiate for 20 minutes and 5 drinks he settled for her price of $R150.

[Liucio]

The gentleman that asked why HELP is closing. The reason is because HELP is sitting on prime realestate. PRIME REAL ESTATE. Help generates almost nothing cmpared to what a 5 star hotel could generate. Help generates peanuts. Real Estate is operated differently in Brasil than in Europe. The property is owned by a Brasilian but the investors are foreign. They are only interested in their ROI (RETURN ON INVESTMENT). But this is in the far future. Not this year or maybe not next year. Paperwork in Brasil gets shuffled at a glaciers pace. There is so much beauracracy there. You pay everyone. I mean everyone is in your pockets on a business transaction.

[Liucio]

The reason I say that the consumers do not control the prices is because these men are paying prices that Brasilian men do not pay. Ask any taxi driver or waiter. And they will tell you "these men are stupid". I have been told these exact words by 3 taxi and 2 waiters. They all used the words "stupid". So tell me why does the Brasilian man get the same piece of ass that the Italian and American man gets but he pays a fraction of the price. The Brasilian guys pay mo more than $R60-$R70 reias. No more . And they can get the same women. Upon my research I gathered data on some salaires that different occupations earn:

Doctor : $R800/mo

Taxi : $R280- $R350 -DEC, JAN, FEB, MAR double salary

Waiter: $R250-low tips is bread and butter, the waiters in LIDO earn more than the IPANEMA waiters there is a waiter at Meia Petaca that has been working there for 9 years. He has taken pictures with some LA LAKERS and many football players from Spain & GERmany clubs.

BOB's manager: R$250

Police: $R250- $R300 This varies - the police on the beach and walking the street are making entry level - But the DRUG TASK FORCE makes over $r300. Plus of course you can keep some money you find wrapped in plastic or you can keep the shake down money.

Cashiers at Grocery stores : $R250

Hotel manager at DEBRET: $R300

Most of the female occupation is in the service indusrty : CASHIER, SALON, COOK, HOSTESS, TEACHER, WAITRESS. Some get a season increase in pay, only season.

So my point is that you have a girl coming in from a small counrty side town with no intermediate education and no work history, just nice skin, ass ,waist line and breast and for some men long hair. And these women start commanding 2 months salaries for 1 hour.

I have spoken to many older GERMAN & ITALIAN MEN and they do not mind paying the qouted price of $R200 for 2 hrs. They say they enjoy the company.

I have spoken to young AMERICAN MEN and they $R150-$R200.

I have witnessed a Brasilian hire a girl for $R70 , but she was NOT from HELP and she was a 7 or 8.

No, these men at HELP and MEIA PETACA are not turn away the high prices. I truly disagree. I seen two guys follow a girl as she left there area after she said no tho there lower price.

All the girls I interviewed said to me the greatest factor is the time left for work. If it is late and they has no customers they will take $R80-$R90.

Another factor was the the hourly work. Most women I interviewed gave only 60min and she is in the shower. They only work on a per/hr basis.

I have different numbers for te TERMA girls. I will post those later.

All the girls I interviewed said yes they would definitely take less. Some said they would take half. But their negotiations skills are much superior. Believe me I have seen it. They will be turned down for one quote and go to the next table and they offer is accpeted plus they get 2 or 3 drinks on the gentleman.

So I do disagree. If these guys truly controlled the price it would be reflected in the market price. And the market price is from what I had seen $R150-$R200. Some women start at negotiating at $R300. Yes $R300.

I interviewed a vetran that has been working PROGRAMA for six years.
she has two kids and no boyfriend. Her kids are ages 4 & 2 .

I met her to interview her on a Moday morning. I went with her to do laundry and her salon with her. I spend 6 hours talking to her.

Her phone rang close to 20 times. ALL clients. She makes appmnts.
She was making apptmnts on her dayoff.

She had 2 international calls. The guy will be arriving in 8 hrs or 24hrs and he wants to hire her for the night. Now can you believe it. She is getting calls on her day off. She prefers to older men (40's& over). She works out everyday. She has a club membership in IPANEMA. She runs the beach every morning. Every client of hers takes her shopping and to dinner. She has a nanny. And she refuses to leave her kids to work in EUROPE OR SPAIN.

She is now saving her money and considering purchasing a home.

She entered this profession with the idea to do it only for the HIGH SEASON , CARNAVAL. But the high season turned into 6 years. She has not finished school as she promised herself. She has not bought a house as she promised herself. She enrolled for GERMAN and ENGLISH courses but never went more than 3 times.

She says she rarely goes to help or cafes. Her business is 1 client for the entire time he is in RIO. She will get dinners and breakfast. Shopping, taxis, BUZIO, trips to the counrty. Boat trips, concerts, sambas, and shopping.

I spoke with guys at MEI PETACA and none said they would do these things for the women. They said they would never hire 1 woman for 10 days. But I spoke with some older gentlemen who do not frequent MEI PETACA, all EUROPEAN OLDER MEN and they prefer 1 or 2 women for their entire vacation. She actually moves into his hotel room for the 20 or 25 days he is in RIO.

The conclusion is if you refuse som of these girl offer of $R150 for 1 hr. The gentleman at the next table will glady accept her offer and buy her a drink.

[Heading East]

I understand that many people are concerned about the prices some people are paying at Help, and based on simple economics some of the prices are crazy! But are they?

I will use my self as an example. I pay help girls $R300 per night. I don’t think that this is a particularly excessive amount. It works out at about US$125. Which for a night’s sex, I think, is a very reasonable price.

I'm sure if I wanted to, I would be able to get the price paid down to as little as $R150 or US$63. But what would be the cost to me?

Firstly I would risk losing the 9 or 10 that I desire. Why would a top bird be interested in taking R$150 from me when she knows that she can get R$300 from someone else?

When I set eyes on a top bird, which is becoming an increasing rarity at Help these days, I want to make sure I secure her. I’m not really interested in picking up an enthusiastic 7; I have these girls in London for free. I come to Rio for the specific reason of having sex with women who are physically perfect!

The other issue to think about is performance. I would argue, from experience, that I get much better performance from a girl who feels that I’m paying her a fair price for her services, than one who feels cheated.

In my younger days, when I was more inclined to price negotiate, I tended to get girls who want to leave at 4am. Instead I now get a girl who wants to stay for breakfast sex, and the afternoon on the beach with me.

[Junior]

On my most recent trip in marts I spoke at length wth one of the girls from Centaurus regarding the economics of the place.

The girls get 80% of the program price. The remainder covers medicals test etc. The do not get commissions on drinks or rooms. The are always keen to upgrade you to more time to earn more. or to take a second girl. The second girl will usually be a friend who will also earn some money and probably return the favour another time. It is a lot less work for the girls rather than being being alone with the client.

This particular girl averages about R7-8000 a month with some seasonal variation. She is one of the more popular girls at Centaurus - I am guessing she in the top 10 earners.

I am pretty sure the centaurus girls earn the most among the terma girls. The prices are higher, but the girls also do more clients -atleast as far as I can tell from numerous visit to the termas.

No matter what the economics are the termas are still HEAVN ON EARTH.

[Dark Knight]

It absolutely kills me that guys would pay a gdp more than R$200 for TLN.

Liucio, I must respectfully correct you. The consumers DO control the price. This is an immutable law of economics. Supply and demand. Here's a hypothetical:

An attractive garota named Luana works at HELP. She has, over this past season, been getting $R300 to R$400 for her services. She has become accustomed to that.

Over the next week, every time Luana quotes R$300 to a guy, he says it's too much and asks her to move on. This happens to her dozens of times and gets no clients for a week. She comes to HELP (or BarBarela, etc), pays an entry fee, and buys her drinks, but leaves at the end of the night without a client.

Now, what do you think Luana will do? Will she stop being a gdp? Or will Luana reduce her price?

Guys, YOU control the pricing by what you pay. It has always been thus, and will always be. When General Motors isn't selling cars, they offer rebates and incentives - they reduce the price! These girls are selling a price-elastic service. The guys have choices (termas, acompanhantes, etc); exercise those options.

Each of us has to take control and bring the market dynamics back to equilibrium. I have sat next to guys at cafes who tell me that they pay 400 or 500 reais. It sickens me. If you insist on paying $200US to some chick, save yourself the hassle and go to Vegas.

[Macunaima]

"A girl leaves the flavela and moves to Rio and sells the service at the market place for more money than she could make in 3 months."

Very few of these women live in or have lived in favelas, guys.

"I spoke with a some Terma girls 3 years ago and they were making an equilvalent of 600 $R /mo. This doubles during DEC, JAN, FEB."

Try more like 600 USD. I began my research three years ago and if you like you can check out the prices people were posting back then. Asking price in a termas three years ago - according to the women and many of the self-same mongers who are now on this board - varied from around 100 to 200 reais. More or less about what's being asked now, adjusted for inflation.

What you guys are noticing isn't a market being "ruined": it's the dollar going down and Brazilian inflation going up. Three years ago, I charged 25 reais a lauda for translations - now I charge 40. "Official" inflation over the last three years has clocked in at around 20 percent and "real" inflation has been about twice that. My rent, for eample, has gone from 700 reais to 1000. A bottle of beer from a street vendor which once cost 1.50 now costs 2.50.

In the meantime, the dollar dropped from its post election high of 3.15 reais to 2.50.

All this means that the same program that cost you 30 USD back then now costs you 50. It's not the market going up, folks. If anything, pro prices are not keeping pace with inflation. The women complain all the time that they are getting less money now than ever before because there are more girls working the streets than ever before.

"I pray that this market does not get exported outside of RIO. Thats why it would be bad for HELP to close because these guys would start traveling to different small cities, paying triple the prices and ruin south and north Brasil."

My guess is that if mongers try to take this market in mass to small towns in inner Brazil, we'll be shortly seeing many more busts. Rio, SP, Salvador and Recife are used to you guys' antics. Ocudumundu Mirim, Minas Gerais, isn't.

[Young & Restless]

Hi Bubba Boy,

As much as I hate to say this, I think you are absolutely right when you titled your report “Nothing stays good forever”. Honestly, that thought has been in the back of my head for sometime now, but I have always made myself ignore it.

I know that some of the girls are working seasonal in Europe, but I think the biggest problem is how popular Rio has become here in the most recent years. I know that Rio did not just pop up all of a sudden, but I’d say that its popularity has increased exponentially here in the past few years. Good for Rio, not so good for us.

Maybe I’m just being paranoid, but you see Rio on television now more than ever from everything to Citibank & Valtrex commercials (funny how Valtrex chose Rio as the backdrop for that commercial), predominant Victoria’s Secret models now appearing on the silver screen, MTV videos, etc. I've even heard rumors about Blame it on Rio part II being put into production with Demi Moore playing Michael Caine's old role and Ashton Kutcher playing hers.... j/k. Like I said though, this kind of press is great for Rio, but has the opposite effect for us, IMO.

Rio is hands-down my favorite destination, but in regards to the inevitable, I have already started scouting out other destinations such as a recent trip to Argentina and I’ll be going to Colombia by the end of this year. As you say, nothing stays good forever, so it's time to put on my exploring cap.

I think that Rio will always have beautiful girls available to anyone that goes there, but with more and more gringos going to Rio these days, the prices will continue to climb and the sweet Brazilian girls will be harder to find.

Again, all the above is just my opinion and I would be glad to be wrong in this case.

[Bubba Boy]

I think it is reality that the price of P4P will rise in Rio. It is just too good to stay the same and the girls do have other options.

I base this on the following. I just spent a few weeks in Spain where I met up with 2 amigas from Rio. Both I have known for just under 2 years and were just starting their careers in Termas.

One amiga, a strong 9 by any measure, just spent 4 days with me in Madrid. It was perfect timing as she was just ending a 3 month working trip there and heading home. She basically said the first time she was in Madrid she worked for Club Lovely (30 minutes costs 70 Euro or USD$90, standard for most highway clubs in Spain) where she earned about 3 times more per day than she did in a Terma in Rio. She then went back and did a 3 month stint at a terma in Rio. Upon returning to Spain she worked at a better, more high end club, and has now has done 3x3 month stints there. She earns about 6 to 9 times more there than she would at a Rio Terma and she sees less guys and only works 4 days per week. Now she does not work when she returns home, not much point when you do the sums and consider she brings about USD$30,000 home each 3 month stint. It now costs 300 euro to fuck her at the club for the hour.

It was actually great fun to hang with her and see how she has progressed over the last 2 years. When I first met her she was smoking hot and a great fuck. The one draw back was she is obviously from a poor background and did not have much of an education. I once showed her a picture of me standing next to the Eiffel tower, she hadn't a clue where the picture was taken. Now she has developed into a more worldly young lady. She speaks Spanish, some English and a little French now and has travlled a bit in Europe. She has just purchased a house in Brasil and has a small investment unit. I believe she intends to take up studying again in the next 6 months. In short she impresses me a lot now.

I mention the above as a point that these girls now have a lot of options now and Rio will not be the same paradise it is now forever. How much did it cost to hang with her 4 for days? All she asked for was a small gift for her and her mother of which she specified, turned out to be about USD$120 in total. Hence, a further point, yes some girls in Rio do try and grab the $ others do actually enjoy the company of some gringos they meet. Of course the next trip I make to Rio she will be there and will be wanting me to be with her and not visit a terma. I think we are going to have to work something out in this regards.

One further point, there are tons of Brasilian girls all over Spain working. The GDP network is very strong. You see them everywhere on the beaches, usually lying on or wearing a brasilian flag. Her phone would ring off the hook. Everywhere I went with mi amiga there was something to do with a group of people, most GDP's or ex GDP's. It was kind of fun going to dinner with another couple one night, the Italian guy (who now lives in Spain) did not know his wife was an ex GDP girl. Hence, I was briefed beforehand not to mention certain things. It was funny as the conversation would be held in 3 different languages, at first when I would speak in English to the guy, his wife would always watch me (she didn't speak English, my spanish pronunciation is not good enough to hold an in depth conversation). I would reassure her in Portuguese what we were talking about. Her husband didn't speak Porto (the girls would always speak in porto together, rapid fire). After a while she relaxed and it was actually a very very funny and excellent night.

If you are intending to grab a bit of Brasilian ass in Spain don't expect it to be as good as you get in Rio - service wise. Everything is more rushed in Spain, less getting to know you time with the girl and more $ orientated. However, compared to most countries still a damn good option.

For new readers to this forum GDP = Garotta De Program (girl of program= sex worker girl)