2005 Rio de Janeiro Reports

[Mr Books]

The whole reason behind this nonsense is "status". Until you understand the Brazilian status system and its pervasiveness, you can never really understand these people. I can't claim that I fully get it, but I usually know that it is at work when I see it. Friends getting invited along unexpectedly often is the result of a status play on the part of your gf. She gets a status bump from dating a rich American/European, and you and her both get a bump if you shell out for dinner and drinks for all her friends. This puts her higher on the status food chain, which can eventually lead to association with other people of similar status and the increased social and financial opportunities those connections bring.

Most of this seems completely insane to Americans. People will debate whether or not the US is really a meritocracy, but Americans at least BELIEVE that it is. We generally feel the way to get ahead is to work hard, be smart, innovate, and seize opportunities when they become available. Brazilians see personal connections as the way to get ahead. You find someone who is already rich and powerful and ride the wave behind their motor yacht.

Not to become Homo Academicus with the group, but this is known in social science theories as "symbolic capital". And yes, even we as Americans are known to play this game. People with photos of themselves shaking hands with the President or better yet, having his number on our cell phone. Taking a friend to dinner with Donald Trump or Tiger Woods or Warren Buffett or Angelina Jolie. Or DATING Angelina Jolie. Ask Kevin Federline how much he gained in 'status' by marrying Britney Spears, though her star is (hopefully) fading. Those things make a difference in the 'status' of a person even here in the US.

The next part of this theory involves being able to convert this symbolic capital into economic capital. Invite Joe to dinner so maybe we can be friends and I am one degree of separation closer to Bill Gates. Perhaps the friends will introduce her to other locals because she can "get us closer to Americans with money."

BTW, GREAT story Y&R!

[Girlfinder]

Being a novice maybe, I ask: Can we survice only with English here?

I cannot spanish, do I get a lot of problems meeting younger girls you think?

By the way, if someone can rate Brazil compared to Thailand, Indonesia and Philippines I would be grateful!

Thanx.

[Photo55]

Sorry I don't have the link but was in the science section. Basically says that Brazilians are getting FAT. And well having visited the country over the last 6 years I would have to agree. I was shocked at some of the beachs around Rio and Sao Paulo, I mean just full of fatties. same problem the rest of the world but as the article noted, Brazilians only rank behind the US in per capita sugar consumption, ie, a lot of fatties being created.

So given that (an assumption here) most of the chicks in HELP are from the lower end of the socio economic class they are likely the ones pushing out (there is an inverse relationship between fat and wealth as often the richer folks eat better and have better education around food). SO I would surmise that the hey days of hot brazilians girls is going to get a bit squeezed (no pun intended).

[Vinni100]

Remember guys. There are numerous girls that turn 18 everyday in Rio.

[Cachorro]

Y & R, thanks for your report, it was very enjoyable to read.

With the taxi driver that made up stories about you... it's possible he said something even while you were in the taxi. Orgy in Portuguese is suruba, and for sure there are other expressions too (just as in English we could use tag team, gang bang etc). A lot of Brazilians speak only in slang.

Festinha is a gentle code word that's been borrowed from the regular language. Like the word "escort", whose true meaning is obviously much different to "have this girl come round to my place where I'll fuck her until she goes cross eyed". A festinha means literally a small party -- if you mentioned this word to everyday Brazilians they'd most likely imagine a small gathering of friends, drinking and cooking some food.

Congratulations on doing the double date thing with the two non-pro's. We all know that's difficult to pull off, but a real pleasure when it works out right.

[Hojo]

Oh Boy where do I start....

Was looking forward to mongering in one of my favorite places on the planet, but it was not to be unfortunately.
Well much to our disappointment the girls were rude, of lower quality (than previous years) and quick to quote you a price of R$350 after meeting you for two minutes. Even the girls that were butt-ugly quoted me R$350.

Spidy

It seem to me that 90% of the girls working at HELP now are the same girls I have been seeing there for the past 5 years. I would hypothesize the low quality girls Spidy refers to are not low quality girls that have just recently started working at HELP, but are the same girls that have been there all this time. They are just getting older and more hardened. I try to target the fresh 10% I have not seen before. This is just a thought.

Pop till you drop,
hojo

[Young & Restless]

Y&R,

I would have also blown off that girl also if she showed up with 3 GUY friends on your last night. You never know what thier intensions are. I don't have a problem with meeting a girlfriends friends, but I wouldn't want to be outnumbered 4 to 1. Especially if I had just met the girl.

I would be the first one to break a nose or bust a lip if things started to happen...

GoRio,

I'd like to think I did the right thing anyway. At that point, I already had my fill of adventure ...

When it comes to trusting Brazilians, I don't want to give anyone the wrong idea, because I've met several Brazilians that I consider to be very good friends and I stay in touch with them even while I am here in the U.S.

You may be right about Brazil having the same ratio of honest vs. dishonest people as other countries in the world. It's just been from my own personal experiences that extra caution is necessary in Brazil.

Have fun on your trip in March and let us know how you make out!

Y & R

[Ezinho]

"THINGS ARE A CHANGING IN BRAZIL" for mongers. I see this all over Brazil, from Manaus to Rio. So enjoy this times while you still can!!!

How are things "a changing" in your opinion? Like I said in a previous post, I think a lot of the best looking girls are just leaving and moving to Europe, but do you think there are other factors at play as well? (i.e. better economy in Brasil so more job opportunities, crackdown by LE, value of the Euro going up, etc.) Anyone have any thoughts?

[Bubba Boy]

You have to remember that this is the time leading up to Carnaval and hence the girl/guy ratio is moving towards the girls favour. Not a great time to visit. Carnal is first week of feb this year, earlier than usual.

[Vinni100]

Hey dude! I have found the same thing regarding Help. The atmosphere is definately dissintegrating. Help will learn its lesson only after revenues have dropped off the map.

I also can't stand some skank asking for some un-Godly amount of money for sex. I just ignore them. Young and pretty girls.....thats me. Even if I have to wait a day, I'll not settle.

I used to love Monte Carlo, but even that place has some dreggs. On the other hand, I am hearing "Balcony Bar" attracts alot of the trade. I haven't been there due to last time I was in Rio I was dating a girl and we only went to resturants, beach and some nights Mabs.

Eventually, when a "hot spot" becomes a place to go, the girls AND us mongers will follow suit. I still find girls at the beach. Not sure why. I'm pretty laid back and I'm not pushy. I even asked a mother if I could have dinner with her daughter. This was in Cabo Frio 4 years ago. The girl was 20 and mom was around 45ish. I had dinner with the girl and one of her girlfriends. Didn't go home with her, but we made out AND she wasn't a professional. Now that was cool!!! Things like this happen for me if I am not too eager

[Spidy]

Oh Boy where do I start....

Was looking forward to mongering in one of my favorite places on the planet, but it was not to be unfortunately.

Arrived from Sao Paulo (Dec 15th 2004) by bus after a 6 hour ride and headed for Copacabana to a prearranged apartment with a friend of mine currently living in Buzios/Cabo Frio. We were both looking forward to a good HELP fix (like two crack-cocaine addicts) and drooling over the beautiful women to be found there.

Well much to our disappointment the girls were rude, of lower quality (than previous years) and quick to quote you a price of R$350 after meeting you for two minutes. Even the girls that were butt-ugly quoted me R$350.

What was even worse was the atmosphere at HELP is terrible. It gotten so bad, the girls cannot even sit on a guy’s lap. THIS IS CRAZY!! No really, several times I saw the bouncers (security) tell the girls to get up or would give the girls the wagging finger, as if to say this is a “No No”. Since when in Brazil can’t girls sit on a guy’s lap. They scrutinize a lot of the physical touching that goes on and are basically telling the girls how to behave. THIS IS NUTS!!

If I wanted to have non-physical, non groping encounters with women, I would have stayed home and watched a good Buttman porno.

The quality at places like HELP, Meia Pattaca, Barbarellas and other similar type locations in Copacabana, in our opinion had gotten worse. Maybe it was because it was just Christmas season and this is a low time of year. Cant't say for sure, but personally I think its getting worse.

The only thing saving Rio (from this monger's extinction list) is the termas and Vila Mimosa. Having said that, there is still a lot Rio has to offer but you just may have to look else where, other than Copacabana.

I've been going to Rio since 1990, so I know what places like HELP were like in their hay day and today's scene is a far cry from those days. But I´ll say this much "THIS ARE A CHANGING IN BRAZIL" for mongers. I see this all over Brazil, from Manaus to Rio. So enjoy this times while you still can!!!

Ciao
Spidy

[Rio Regular]

Will anyone be in Rio next week? I'd love to find a wingman to go out with. PM me if you will be in town.

RR

[Vinni100]

It's the same way here in the US. Hard work and innovation only take you so far. It's who you know, who you trust, who trusts you that takes you over the top and offers you the opportunities to seize.

In the simplest terms that is correct. However, as Fartknocker pointed out, these people ride on the coat tails of others. The two concepts are totally different. We get ahead here in America with both hard work and business contacts. In Rio, most of them have no idea what that means and they are looking for a hand-out.

[Young & Restless]

Your Paulista might have just invited a few friends along for a free night out on the gringo. I've had gf's do this to me often enough to where I stopped getting annoyed. Usually this particular Brazilian scam-lite takes the form of one, or at most two, friends getting themselves invited along. These friends are normally female, but the occasional male/female couple will wind up getting an invite from the gf. Often in Brazil the richest guy at the table will pay the check, so these invitees are happy to come along in the hopes that you will do the same....

Fartknocker,

That's a pretty interesting perspective. That could have been what she was up to, but her biggest mistake (like you said) was inviting guys instead of girls.

I have read before that status ratings are so important to Brazilians. Again though, if that's what her intentions were that night she really planned it out poorly. It still amazes me that she did that on my last night there...

Y & R

[Young & Restless]

Your description of your adventures in Rio has been like a Roller Coaster ride …I have laughed…got angry…felt sadness…excitement ...horny … even scared sometimes, like a dramatic soap opera unraveling episode by episode. You are tha man!!!

I truly have to congratulate you for perhaps the best post I have read in this forum. As with any excellent drama I was left asking for more and some questions floating in the air:

1. You found out why the Paulista got so mad with you? Have you kept in contact with her? and with the Carioca? I think you should you never know when those relationships may become handy.

2. What type of job has the Carioca? What about the Paulista? I don’t mean ... .

Respin05,

Wow! I see that I did leave out a few things after all. Ok, for your questions:

1) The only reason that the Paulista was mad is because I changed my mind about going out with her at the last minute, because she invited those three guys that I did not know. As crazy as this may sound, I have kept in touch with both the Carioca and the Paulista. I emailed the Paulista a few days after I got back and since then we have emailed each other and talk on the phone whenever convenient. I have also spoke with and emailed the Carioca many times too. Whenever I make it back to Brazil, I'll definitely hook-up with one (or both... hehehe) of these girls again.

2) The Carioca is a nail technician and goes to school at night. The Paulista works in an office as an administrator/translator. Both girls still live at home.

3) I was surprised at how many people have PM'd me asking for Guilherme's contact info. I emailed him right when I got back to tell him thanks for his hospitality during this trip and reminded him to send me the link to his web site like we discussed while I was in Brazil. He hasn't responded yet, but I am going to send him another email to let him know that some of you guys are interested in meeting with him. You will be glad that you decided to meet up with Guilherme. Extremely cool guy.

4) I know this is going to sound pretty inconsiderate of me, but I never gave anything to Guilherme to show my appreciation. Really the only opportunity that I had to offer a token of my appreciation on this most recent trip would been to have paid for the beer that night at the kiosk. Next time I think it would be cool to invite him to go to Centaurus, my treat.

Your right, up until that night I've never been to the Lapa district at night. Not that I would expect any of my local friends to have my back if a fight broke out, but they would at least try to keep both of us out of trouble and he would certainly be better at defusing a bad situation than I would.

I wish that I could have helped out Corey better than I did, but after I walked back to Help and offered to negotiate with the girl that he was with, he declined. Looking back... we should have set a time to leave, before we got there. That way all deals would have been made before leaving and everyone would have left at the same time. Thankfully, nothing too bad happened that night.

Good luck and have fun on your next trip,

Y & R