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  1. #24904

    How early did you go?

    You need to go when the bars open or when there is a shift change. Koreans know they have to get there early and they go in groups and just take all the pretty ones when they open. I was in angeles last month. Things have changes quite a bit since I first started going in 2011. The korean invasion has happened. I'm sad to see things change but you can't hold back progress I guess. Not can you hold back the increasing bar fines. A lot of the bars have started catering to koreans. I guess koreans like to get up early. There are now quite a few bars that open at 10 am on walking street. Much different than years back when the only bar open was crappy voodoo bar.

    Anyways. I saw plenty of nice looking girls catering to the korean audience at 10 am bright and early. They also open early too at the far side of the perimeter. They are all korean focused at the far side.

    One thing of note that I found new and interesting was at iljo bar. Across from dragon bar. They open at 10 am as well just FYI. I asked about the bar fine system there. I think it was 2700 for short time or 3500 for long time. Until the next morning. They are pretty strict about long time. They give you some sort of receipt or piece of paper that the girl needs to get from you indicating that she had permission to leave. Should cut down on runners. For all you guys who like to have someone sleep by your side.

    One other thing. Kind of random. I was in pony tails one night and I sat on the elevated area immediately to the left side of the entrance if you're facing the stage. Do not sit there if you're not wearing long pants. Those seats are infested with some sort of bugs. I got bit up quite bad right at my upper calves and the bites took a couple of weeks to completely heal.

    Good luck and have fun!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidtip  [View Original Post]
    I kept reading stuff about going early to beat the Koreans. I went early and there was still nothing great. I don't think the good girls get taken early, I just think the good girls have all gone to Makati. This doesn't really make sense because the hot girls would be busy if they were here because there are so many average girls.

    I've never had money stolen, but I can't stress enough how important it is to keep your money with you or really well hidden while you are in the shower. I talk to these girls all the time about the scams and stuff because its such a fun topic. And every single one of them can tell stories about how its done. Beeeeeeeeeeee careful.

  2. #24903
    Quote Originally Posted by Sidtip  [View Original Post]
    I kept reading stuff about going early to beat the Koreans. I went early and there was still nothing great. I don't think the good girls get taken early, I just think the good girls have all gone to Makati. This doesn't really make sense because the hot girls would be busy if they were here because there are so many average girls.

    I've never had money stolen, but I can't stress enough how important it is to keep your money with you or really well hidden while you are in the shower. I talk to these girls all the time about the scams and stuff because its such a fun topic. And every single one of them can tell stories about how its done. Beeeeeeeeeeee careful.
    You didn't go early enough.

  3. #24902

    Cooling Things

    MontanaMonger, SidTip seems your kind of guy. No need to diss him. An apology and a thank you for a good report should fix things. Makati and Angeles have different beats and different sartorial styles that Sidtip picked up on. He has the measure of the hookers. You could learn from him, as could we all.

  4. #24901
    Quote Originally Posted by Sidtip  [View Original Post]
    Also the men up there were older and mostly uglier than the customers in Makati. They look like rejects and hobos and down and outers. I feel sorry for the girls.
    So. You are going to these clubs to check out the guys? The guys who walk into these bars universally are disgusting, they aren't any nicer looking in makati. Unless you are fucking / pick up some of those male customers in Makati which I know nothing about admittedly. Whatever floats your boat.

  5. #24900
    In Angeles. No reply and no show from the lactating girl. Maybe it is my fault after offering her 1500ST. Still thinking 5 years ago. Come to find out prices have shot up through the room. Central Park towers room is good executive for 2800 all cash. Comparable to many 5 star hotels. Spacious and even the bathroom is big. Skimpy on toiletries.

    Visited few bars and barfines range 3 K up. That too 90 percent are bordering ugly with no boobs and bloated bellies. Rainy season and the crowd has thinned out. Got tired of looking and got a halfway decent girl. Boring and mechanical. Let us say best to forget the encounter.

    Decided to stick with DIA girls. Unfortunately decent girls live couple of hours away from Angeles and want travel money before which I declined. There are some nice massage girls on the street. Did not try.

    Well, next stop Manila. Two girls lined up.

  6. #24899
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeke2121  [View Original Post]
    Hey what's up from California! I just visited 3 months ago will be back August 21 for 8 days. Here's some info. If you want to save time and don't waste on lady drinks with girls on their period, try this. At any Lady Bar, the range is 3 to 4 K Max. Go to the Mamassn (Old Lady manager), and ask her to tell the girls which ones are down to go with you. She will point out all the ones that told her yes. If you like one pick one if not on to the next bar and repeat. This works at big and small lady bars. Night Club High Society Is loaded with girls from 12 am to 5 ish. Same deal any girl you really like go up to her and tell her want to hang out 3 k? I f no 4 k. If she says no to 4 k go to your next choice which there is a lot. She will party with you drink (you pay) dance if you want and bang you drunk. I say tell her 3 K and 4 k because those numbers work at 90 percent for me. On night clubs you can go lower maybe 2 k but 3 k is a good number for me because I can afford it. Everybody's situation and plan is different. I heard numbers like 1 k but maybe for the ducks. 3 k to 4 k will get you a hot club girl with a mini dress. Walking girls same deal go straight to them and if you like tell her what's up let's hang 2 k might tell you 3 k if she's hot. You can try 1 k but 2 K works at a high rate for me. They are for the most part short time. Massage girls handing out business cards by La Cebuana and on the side of Kokomo's are a great find. They are usually between 18 and 20 and cost 1 k to 2.5 K. If you like the girl passing out cards same deal tell her 1 to 2.5 k short time.

    There are some green eyed brace cuties on some nights. Massage and Sex for 2 k great deal! Also collect a few cards and on a rainy night or slow night call and ask for a girl. They send random cuties same deal 1 to 2. 5 k or 800 pesos for happy endings! Try doing 3 happy endings in 1 day at 800 pesos ea it's a great cheap experience! 30 minutes or less arrival time. This all works for all girls not looking for Korean men only. I experimented a few times just to test out some girls and offered 5 to 6 k and they still say no. These girls are at the Korean Lady Clubs by Mickey DS and are girls who are really white with blonde orange hair for the most part. To gauge I hung out with young Koreans last few trips and these guys offer 4 k to 5 k tops for any girl or girls they like for 1 full day. They did not get a no or a 6 k up offer from any girl.

    Let me know if this was any help. Thanks.
    Before they blast you.

    Good action report.

  7. #24898

    Don't need to go early

    I kept reading stuff about going early to beat the Koreans. I went early and there was still nothing great. I don't think the good girls get taken early, I just think the good girls have all gone to Makati. This doesn't really make sense because the hot girls would be busy if they were here because there are so many average girls.

    I've never had money stolen, but I can't stress enough how important it is to keep your money with you or really well hidden while you are in the shower. I talk to these girls all the time about the scams and stuff because its such a fun topic. And every single one of them can tell stories about how its done. Beeeeeeeeeeee careful.

  8. #24897

    Makati v AC

    So I decided to have a look at Angeles City to compare it to Makati.

    Firstly I decided to take a Grab. No one accepted the offer at 1 pm so I tried a Grab taxi and got a hit immediately for 1400 - 1700 from Makati to AC. Driver says can I pay him double because he won't get a return fare on the 90 km trip. I say get fucked. He wants to cancel. I said ill report you dude. He says can you give me 3000 I say get fucked and he says petrol is expensive. I start thinking about sex and say OK ill do 2500. He says OK and we take some tollway that cuts the time to about 90 min. Someone said the buses take 3++ hours. Not sure.

    Anyway then he tries to make me pay the toll at the end (and the toll for the way home) of about 90 per pop. I say fuck off and he says pay one toll and I say OK.

    In my opinion it is not worth paying to travel to AC. This is my thoughts.

    There are so many more bars. Many are so small. You will be the only customer in the daytime and also sometimes at night. The girls all glare at you and you can't hide in the background a row back like in Makati. The girls wear more clothes than Makati. They are skimpy, but not as skimpy. I spent 30 minutes in one of the bigger clubs. It had more than 30 girls up on stage and I could not find one that I really liked. It really is different to Makati. Seems like they are older and uglier here. There are also not that many freelancers. You are not being approached on the street every 10 seconds. The choice is greater in the clubs in terms of more bars and more girls overall. But the quality in my opinion is just way worse. You can see 150 girls here and not be impressed with any of them.

    The bar fine in some clubs in the day was 2700 for a short time of 4-6 hours and 3500 in almost all of them for LT in the night. The money is paid directly to the bar before you leave so its risky if the girl wants to leave. Here I barfined my first girl ever because there was no one on the street making offers.

    I had visited about 15 of the clubs for between 5-30 min throughout the day buying only a water or can of mango or pinable juice in each and not buying drinking for anyone. I threw a couple of buckets of pingpong balls at them for 300 peso for 15 or so balls. The girl gets 15 peso per ball but we pay 30 peso so the club gets half. 100 balls are discounted to 2000 peso. But a dude I saw had a better idea. He folded up 20 peso notes into little sausages and flicked them at the girls with a rubber band. They got 20 peso and the bar got nothing. Win win. I settled on a girl for 3000 in a club a bit off the main street. We left about 11 pm and she was supposed to stay till 2 am but after an hour of playing around she started talking about how her mum only thought she served drinks and her son (who had not ravaged her body. I was shocked that she had one because her body was small and unmarked) needed her. So she started asking to go around 2. I was kind of happy with this and said it was OK as long as I could cum in her mouth. She accepted and left but I made it clear I was sad and was going to cry because she was changing our deal. This meant she did not expect a tip and she left happily thinking she was ripping me off. She wanted to come back the next day but I have learned the hard way too many times that seeing the same girl twice causes problems and money issues. I fall for them so fast.

    So the next day I find clubs like cosplay open at 11 am or so and decided I didn't want to buy anymore water or pineapple juice. Have you noticed how you can hold the drinks in but once you [CodeWord140] once then you just can't stop and you have to go to the toilet all the time. Or am I defective.

    So I move to wechat and there is only about 12 girls there. Been checking it from the minute I arrived. 3 massage shops added me or I added them and they sent pics. Only two would send real time pics so I could judge without the heavy make up. Decided on a 19 year old for 1200 peso for 2 hours. Handjob could not touch girl. No sex. Handjob only. Girl 1 had braces and I asked her to smile so I could see them while she finished me off. Cute but would not let me in her mouth even for more $.

    One hour rest and then asked for her stablemate to come. Same price 1200 p for 2 hours. This one was a bit more fun. Played with my bottom hole for half the time but would not go inside it and my dick and balls for the other half.

    AC is the only place I have been to where they have a special balls massage. You can even get it without the hand relief. I have the wechats of these shops if anyone wants to add them and get pics prices etc.

    So then it was time to head to the airport and I am a total idiot for doing what someone told me not to do. I planned to head from AC to the airport. But it can take 3+ hours on the non toll roads and we all know what manila traffic is like. The Grab price suddenly was up at 3800 p and there was still no cars available. I didn't have time to waste or I was at risk of missing my plane. I was full on panicked. The hotel had told me they can organise cars for 3000 with an hours notice. I rang them and asked for someone fast. He was there in 10 minutes thank all the gods. But of course he needed petrol and we had to stop but we made it with 90 min to spare. Do not make AC your final destination. Listen to the people smarter than me. Make Makati your last night.

    I stayed at the grand palace hotel which is ok. Internet is bad. The location is perfect. I do not recommend travelling here for girls. Might be a bit cheaper but factor in travel time and COST and that hotels are the same price or more expensive than Makati but worse. And that there is risk because you pay the bar upfront and the girl can leave and you can't stop it because she has been paid. And the girls are not as good looking. There are fewer good loooking girls. Not many freelancers. Less girls on wechat.

    Oh and the girls were not really into sitting and being naked or being fingered in the bar. The whole place was OK but if Makati is a 7.5 - 8.5 then this place is maybe a 4-5 to 5. =5.

    This is only my opinion. But I went purely for sex and purely to see how good this place was. I would not return if my other option was m=Makati.

    Also the men up there were older and mostly uglier than the customers in Makati. They look like rejects and hobos and down and outers. I feel sorry for the girls.

  9. #24896

    Here's some Info

    Hey what's up from California! I just visited 3 months ago will be back August 21 for 8 days. Here's some info. If you want to save time and don't waste on lady drinks with girls on their period, try this. At any Lady Bar, the range is 3 to 4 K Max. Go to the Mamassn (Old Lady manager), and ask her to tell the girls which ones are down to go with you. She will point out all the ones that told her yes. If you like one pick one if not on to the next bar and repeat. This works at big and small lady bars. Night Club High Society Is loaded with girls from 12 am to 5 ish. Same deal any girl you really like go up to her and tell her want to hang out 3 k? I f no 4 k. If she says no to 4 k go to your next choice which there is a lot. She will party with you drink (you pay) dance if you want and bang you drunk. I say tell her 3 K and 4 k because those numbers work at 90 percent for me. On night clubs you can go lower maybe 2 k but 3 k is a good number for me because I can afford it. Everybody's situation and plan is different. I heard numbers like 1 k but maybe for the ducks. 3 k to 4 k will get you a hot club girl with a mini dress. Walking girls same deal go straight to them and if you like tell her what's up let's hang 2 k might tell you 3 k if she's hot. You can try 1 k but 2 K works at a high rate for me. They are for the most part short time. Massage girls handing out business cards by La Cebuana and on the side of Kokomo's are a great find. They are usually between 18 and 20 and cost 1 k to 2.5 K. If you like the girl passing out cards same deal tell her 1 to 2.5 k short time.

    There are some green eyed brace cuties on some nights. Massage and Sex for 2 k great deal! Also collect a few cards and on a rainy night or slow night call and ask for a girl. They send random cuties same deal 1 to 2. 5 k or 800 pesos for happy endings! Try doing 3 happy endings in 1 day at 800 pesos ea it's a great cheap experience! 30 minutes or less arrival time. This all works for all girls not looking for Korean men only. I experimented a few times just to test out some girls and offered 5 to 6 k and they still say no. These girls are at the Korean Lady Clubs by Mickey DS and are girls who are really white with blonde orange hair for the most part. To gauge I hung out with young Koreans last few trips and these guys offer 4 k to 5 k tops for any girl or girls they like for 1 full day. They did not get a no or a 6 k up offer from any girl.

    Let me know if this was any help. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by RenaldoB  [View Original Post]
    Arrived in Angeles City late afternoon and checked in to my hotel. Haven't eaten anything all day so I went to SM Clark to get something to eat and walk around a bit. Saw some nice girls walking around so I was excited to go punting later.

    Hit Walking Street a little before 8. It was raining so there wasn't much girls to watch walking around. Went into the bars (not the big named ones like Atlantis) to grab some drinks and warm up. Saw my first good one at Aura. Got her a drink so we could talk and also to inspect the goods a little closer (Always spoke English throughout the entire night). She kept asking me where I'm from and said that looked like a Filipino / local, all while giving off a vibe that she didn't wanted to get barfined. Read from the forums that clothing can also make a difference, but this girl was wearing something that you could definitely see that she had a tight body with no belly plus she had a nice ass as well so I had to get her. Went down to talking about business and she gives me the excuse that she had her period. It could have been true or she was just saying that so that she wouldn't go. I believed it was the latter because she kept looking at her friends and giggling. Got disappointed and left after I finished my drink..

  10. #24895
    Quote Originally Posted by RenaldoB  [View Original Post]
    It was getting late already so I had to end the night with a girl. Chose the one that said she's really good in bed. She was decent looking as well. Got disappointed at the performance, or lack there of, she was boasting about in the bar.
    LOL. Come on man. An empty wagon makes the most noise.

  11. #24894
    Quote Originally Posted by RenaldoB  [View Original Post]
    Saw my first good one at Aura. Got her a drink so we could talk and also to inspect the goods a little closer (Always spoke English throughout the entire night). She kept asking me where I'm from and said that looked like a Filipino / local, all while giving off a vibe that she didn't wanted to get barfined. Read from the forums that clothing can also make a difference, but this girl was wearing something that you could definitely see that she had a tight body with no belly plus she had a nice ass as well so I had to get her. Went down to talking about business and she gives me the excuse that she had her period. It could have been true or she was just saying that so that she wouldn't go. I believed it was the latter because she kept looking at her friends and giggling. Got disappointed and left after I finished my drink.
    I think Aura is one of the Korean owned bars. I try to stay away from those because I heard that they tend to only go with Korean guys. Make sure to check out High Society like after midnight. Lots of nice freelancers there and many bargirls go there after their bars close if they don't get barfined.

  12. #24893

    AC Trip Day 1

    Arrived in Angeles City late afternoon and checked in to my hotel. Haven't eaten anything all day so I went to SM Clark to get something to eat and walk around a bit. Saw some nice girls walking around so I was excited to go punting later.

    Hit Walking Street a little before 8. It was raining so there wasn't much girls to watch walking around. Went into the bars (not the big named ones like Atlantis) to grab some drinks and warm up. Saw my first good one at Aura. Got her a drink so we could talk and also to inspect the goods a little closer (Always spoke English throughout the entire night). She kept asking me where I'm from and said that looked like a Filipino / local, all while giving off a vibe that she didn't wanted to get barfined. Read from the forums that clothing can also make a difference, but this girl was wearing something that you could definitely see that she had a tight body with no belly plus she had a nice ass as well so I had to get her. Went down to talking about business and she gives me the excuse that she had her period. It could have been true or she was just saying that so that she wouldn't go. I believed it was the latter because she kept looking at her friends and giggling. Got disappointed and left after I finished my drink.

    Walked to Eros and was welcomed by the girls so I knew that I would have better luck in there. Walked in and got surrounded by girls. I don't usually like that but at least it showed that I wouldn't have any issues barfining. Got asked the same questions though like where I'm from and they also said that I looked Filipino / local. It was getting late already so I had to end the night with a girl. Chose the one that said she's really good in bed. She was decent looking as well.

    Got back to the hotel room to shower and got to it. She said she was not used to the size and I could tell because she was definitely tight. Got disappointed at the performance, or lack there of, she was boasting about in the bar. But she still was a good sport and took it like a champ. Gave her a tip after the deed was done and called it a night. I did find out that the reason some girls don't usually go with guys that look Filipino / local is because they're either embarrassed or they think that they work with cops and get busted if they agreed to ST / LT. Sucks but it made sense.

    Sorry about the long report. Just wanted to describe my situation a little bit. For some reason my Day 1 post didn't upload so I had to do it again. Hoping for better luck the next day.

  13. #24892

    MM. Mini AC report

    AC reports have been done to death so I will just go over some observations. Someone asked about incalls and this might have been talked about but these bars I'm going to mention are still open and active at the time of this posting.

    These bars are near the american legion the street right before or after depending on which way your coming down perimeter on the way to sunlight lodge III there a huge sign you can't miss it. This string of bars you can fuck the women in the bar I don't know how these stay open given you can get a blow job and fuck these girls in the bar in a very shit room. I'm going to preface this with its a shit hole you need to bring wet wipes with you or run back to the hotel and take a shower after. They will let you short time girls but I prefer incalls during the day. There is a girl there that literally tried to fracture my dick throwing her head onto my cock kind of like those "throated" porn videos. She was making gagging sounds and spitting on the floor wonderful experience (see attached file taken from her public photos the indian forum has tons of these photos so i am not sure if this is against the guidelines or not but if you see this girl do yourself a favor and pick her) I went back several times. These girls are really unpretentious and DTF (down to fuck) all very refreshing. I had a great time and I assume these will be gone by the time I make it back to AC I don't go to AC as much as I used to at least I try not to. These girls will let you finger their pussys and pop their tits out for you to see before you buy. Nothing like the bars on fields. This is what the bars on field SHOULD be like imo. I might be ruing these bars by posting this but its not like these are really a secret. I would say these are the best thing in AC since they don't do this on santos any more. I'm also going to be the first one to admit they aren't the best looking girls in the world but sex wise it is much more fun for me than the girls on fields.

    My second observation is that old Angeles is still alive and well in my option fields avenue is trash now days and the girls are overly pretentious and just not my cup of tea any more. BUT I did find however the further down you on on perimeter you get less and less swanky more dingy. The more genuine the women get. You can still find very awkward cherry girls mixed into at these bars and they are much warmer and less stuck up than what I was seeing on fields ave. I drained my cock at those incall bars but I saw a few girls in these bars that I would have bar fined. It brought back fond memories maybe I was just high from the incalls but I had a great time at the perimeter bars and I can't stand the bars on fields now. Much more laid back it is what all of fields ave used to be like 10 years ago.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Capture.jpg‎   Capture1.jpg‎  

  14. #24891

    Manila. It is what it is. Trip report

    Day 1.

    Landed in Manila took a metered taxi and got to Dragonlink Suites.

    Dragonlink Suites was OK for the most part affordable but Chinese owned. Chinese owned hotels always a pain in the ass when it comes to policy. They beat the Filipinos to death is asinine rules and procedures that only serve to inconvenience the guest. (fines for pushing more than 3 buttons on the elevator and jumping on the elevator for example) But for 22-35 a night can't really complain to much was clean and room wise was nice enough. Their ID policy is a little hit and miss. I fuck almost anything that moves when I first get off the plane so I grabbed a free lancer on P burgos st. She wanted 3 k but I talked her down to 1 k + tip and she asked me why I was so cheap to which I replied "that is what you are worth" to which she agreed. I would say a solid 6/10 not a looker but better than jerking off to take the edge off. Trick to getting these girls cheap is asking if they had any customers if they haven't they will take almost any amount of money. I had a MILF offer me a blow job right before I met the girl I went with for 700 hard pass. So time to call the girls I had lined up and I called over a couple of college girls problem with these chicks is they are dirt poor they don't have money for anything so I ordered a grab to pick them up and bring them to the hotel. I'm going to preface this by saying this was a fail. These girls were both 19 and from the barangay and extremely naive and visibly shaking when they went up to the room. I asked her if she was up for it and she replied no. I asked her if she understood why I called her and she said yes. Long story short I said fuck it and escorted them out, good news is I was only out the money for the grab. It was late by this time. So I went out and grabbed some food at the Filling Station and did some bar hopping. The bars on P burgos street have unreasonably high bar fines plus tip. So I just called it a night.

    Day 2.

    Early the next morning I called a college girl (20) from cavite which is a little south of manila. This girl had been a lesbian for all of her college years so she hasn't had a dick for many years so she says. I told her I would reimburse her travel expenses which added up to around 750 pesos 2 jeepneys and a grab from the terminal. This girl didn't look like the typical bar girl. The staff kind of gave me hard time at the reception because of the way she looked. They made me photo copy her college ID kind of bullshit but it is what it is. I took her up to the room and we had talked about what we would do to each other when we finally saw each other so it was exciting and I was into the idea that she hadn't had dick for a very long time. She kept saying that she had to go to the bathroom to do something. I wasn't sure what, she said she was "shy" I thought maybe menstruation or some bullshit I was ready for disappointment again. Nope. Full on jungle Bush I'm going to say a little bit off putting I love eating pussy but there was so much hair this was not the day for that but she was dripping wet like a basset Hound in heat. The sex was actually great her body shivered with anticipation and she had some convulsions while doing the deed unlike bar girl dead pussy she squeezed her pussy as hard as she could and came multiple times through the magic of tadalafil I was able to keep up for a few hours. The look in these non bar girls eyes is way different after you have fucked a few 100 bar girls you'll know what I mean. Bar girls have this look in their eyes like they aren't all there as if they are looking past you at at this stage in the game for me disdain and indifference in any form is a turn off for me. I gave her 2 k for travel expenses and another 2 k for her coming out all that way. I also let her tag along with me at a Korean bbq place. Over all I had a good time exactly what I wanted to happen happened.

    The next day I was off to AC. To be continued in the AC forum.

  15. #24890
    You should not have to pay at all if you look at the regular girls. If you speak a little Tagalog you should try your luck. I have heard stories about some girls trying to attach themselves to visiting Pinoys. Even those working overseas appear to be hot property and have a string of ladies they can visit when back in the PI.

    You could to the other suggestion. I have seen several people from the subcontinent getting into heated arguments with ladies around the region. The say they are American, Australian, Kiwi, Guam or some other nationality. Some of the ladies bite. They really believe they are British.

    Quote Originally Posted by RenaldoB  [View Original Post]
    I'll be heading to AC today. I read the forum and hope I find some good ones before they're all taken. I'll be trying the first night on my own using what I learned from here. If this noobie fails the first night would anyone that's there be able to help / show me the ropes? Sorry I know it's last minute.

    Reason why I say I might not get any luck getting the nice spinners even if I see one is because I am half Filipino and I heard that majority of them don't go with locals even though I'm not from here.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrEnternational  [View Original Post]
    Just walk in and point one out and say I want to barfine her. Simple. They don't know you are Pinoy. If they ask just tell them you are from Indonesia or Mexico or something.

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