2003 Pattaya Reports

[Freeler]

Muffdriver,

THNX for the addy.
I will 'backchannel' a selection of my private reports and perhaps some pix aswell, after I've returned home later this first week of February, 2003.

PS I will absolutely return to the HolyLand in the end of June, 2003 for another six week Tour of Duty.

[MuffDriver]

Thanks Joe and Freeler. Yes, my email address is jdsmithnyork@yahoo.com.

Don, I’ll keep in touch through the back channels. Guys, it looks like Don and I are having a beer or two in Pattaya. Anyone else up for joining us?

LarryOne, it’s too bad you can’t get away from the banana factory. Hopefully, we’ll be able to plan another trip for later this Spring or this Summer. Seems to be a lot of feedback against getting involved in the ownership of beer bars, despite the apparent fringe benefits. I’ll check out Titty Twister nonetheless, but I’m going to need to be pointed in the right direction. Uh, where is it?

[Joe Zop]

I posted a while back in the Bangkok section my conversations with farang bar owners there, and I had a bunch of similar conversations with bar and restaurant owners in Chiang Mai. All had pretty much the same perspectives: 1) If it works, you can make a minimal living, but it's a lot of work, and the living is only what you'd consider ok if you're living on the cheap in LOS. 2) It's something that can and probably will end at any moment, as if you [CodeWord140] someone off, you and your business are history. 3) You need work your ass off, keep a constant eye on everything, and know exactly where every bit of your money is going at all times, and you should be aware that the way things work will change as soon as you walk out of the door for any reason. One guy said the only way he made any money was by having a Thai manager who got a percentage of the net profits, so they were a bigger bastard than he had to be. But he said it took three tries to find the right persona, and there was no guarantee they would stick around, as the first two managers figured there was a better percentage in just skimming things. Even if you manage to pack the place, there's certainly no guarantee you're going to make money.

I'd also note that the recent bulldozing incident in Bangkok should serve as a good context for the whole thing -- bars just disappeared with no notice whatsoever, and it had nothing to do with any of the tenants doing anything wrong. If that happens to Thai owners, what sort of chance/recourse do you imagine one of us would have?

[Freeler]

Erik,

According to a short mention in today's BKK-Post there is a joint for sale in Nana second floor. Rumour has it it has to fetch EIGHT figures...

I know very few bars that have been around for five years or so. And those are NON-sexoriented bars...

BTW: You don't own the bar, just the business. If the property owner kicks you out, end of that business. In fact, they can simply fit the door with a new lock and NO WAY you can get your belongings out of there. Break the door in and the monkeyhouse is your new home.
And I ain't fq-ing kiddin'!
Also, in 1997, during the Asia-financial-crises, some barrents went up TENfold. That made more than a few people leave with their losses.

Many apparently 'unsuccessful' Thai owned bars are fronts for other businesses. This past January there was a high profile cartheft. The gangleader had a karaokebar as a front.

Again, let others do the investing, let others loose everything.

No need to say that I fully agree with Skinless and Shamas!

[Shamas]

Eric
Be careful of what you wish for, you might just get it.

In my younger days I got a job as the bartender/manager of the slickest strip joint in town. My road partner owned it and told me what I have posted to you. The first two hours were OK, after that it was straight down hill. There is nothing more boring than working in a sex orientated place.

If you must try, hope your the one in a million who enjoys the work, because as an owner, your in a much different position than the tricks. Your relationship with the girls is a business relationship and it has to stay that way.

The other posting about scams are very accurate.

Shamas

[Skinless]

EriK: You can lose more than everything by investing in a bar. Even in high season, many bars in the back streets are totally empty so cash flow is a problem. Also, the Middle east is full of guys working on rigs etc to pay off their bar mortgages. They lose more than it costs.
There are some Germans and other guys who specialize in selling bars to suckers. The scam is this: you go into the Munich Beer Cellar or whatever they call it. Lotsa Germans drinking away, a jovial lot with lots of money. You hear it is up for sale. You meet Fritz, the owner, a nice guy who wants to return hme. You buy and pay top dollar. Then Fritz and all his friends buy a flea pit for next to nothing and they look for the next sucker. Your new dream bar, meanwhile, is empty. If you do not expect to make a living from a tiny bar, sitting 13-30 people in your own country, why should you expect to do so in LOS???

There was some talk a while ago of buying Eden but who would deal with a division of Thai troops intent on tearing it down?

There are some interesting bars in Pattaya. One such is The Dogs Bolox, run by (former) notorious English soccer hooligans. They have cable soccer, fish and chips and all the usual shit. But they also have the hooligan element, which is a good commercial move. Unless you can bring something new like that to the party, something which will attract a new and loyal following, forget it.

The foreign husband Freeler mentions looks like the victim of a scam. Just forget it man. Or hang around and listen to the horror stories. And then forget it.

[Freeler]

Erik,

It is far safer to let others invest.

Q: how much can I loose when I invest in a bar
A: everything!

Recently a bar'owner' was arrested by immigration in Pattaya for doing the books on a day that his Thai wife didn't come in for work.

He probably still resides in ImmigrationPrison...

And that is NO fun place to be!

[Erik]

As far as I understand, it seems difficult to enjoy good time as bar owner or papasan in Thailand. Since, by law, you need to have a Thai national as associate, obviously it is more cautious that it be your wife/girlfriend (though you still need to be very cautious about money). Problem is Thai girls are so jaleous that there is no way your girl, even if she is a former/present prostitute, allow you to "bai teeyo puying" (=whoring). She is the boss' girl, and would lose face if you go out and pay other girls. In such circumstance, a Thai girl would reveal the too unknown aspect of Thai fury. There are so many stories of Thai girls taking horrific revenge for being deceived, for exemple by cuting the penis of their husband during the night !
Good luck !

[LarryOne]

Muff,

Have fun in Pattaya. Sorry I can not join you this time but things are heating up at work, perhaps next time. While you are there can you do me a favor - I have heard that Titty Twister if for sale so head over there and check out the inventories. Perhaps we should pool a group of investors, buy the place and become residents Papasans. It would create a homebase to operate out of and kick back a few Singhas for the weeks we are in town. In addition, think of how the pleasure of the hunt would increase as we could hold auditions for our workerbees - of course we would be an equal opportunity employer. Hell, we might even introduce amature night!!!

For those of you that don't know Muff - I would highly recommend meeting up with him. Fun guys that have a very sane view on the whole experience plus he got some good and interesting stories.

[Dashing Don]

Muff,
I will be in Pattaya on Tuesday, Feb 18 thru Sat Feb 22. Will be staying at the Hard Rock and would love to meet up. Haven't posted on this board in a while but then I haven't been to LOS in over a year. Expect to post an explosive report this time though.
I'm at snafle@hotmail.com

Don

[Freeler]

Muff,

Nice report!
Bus #29 aircon runs from the airport to the Skytrainstation near NationalStadium/MBK building for B18. Take the skytrain to your preferred Soi and more money left to spend on the ladies.

It should be clear to every one by now that the aircon buses are the way to go from BKK to Pattaya.You can take one from Morchit2 or from Ekkamai... Up to you!

BTW, do you have an email addy?
THNX,

Freeler

[Joe Zop]

Very nice job, Muff. And as someone who's stated that Pattaya's not my main taste, let me re-emphasize that I'm making a personal statement about taste, and not at all a judgement, as there's a lot to like about the place, including the fact that it's crawling with available women. Will I still go to Pattaya? Heck yes -- it's just not where I'm going to spend all my time in LOS. If you've got a week or only a bit more, then it or Bangkok are excellent choices.

For what it's worth, when I was there both Eastinys were all booked up, and I stayed at the Central Plaza hotel. Had a suite for 1200baht, and no troubles at all bringing ladies in -- they simply take the ID at the desk. Let me note that I registered as a double, as usual, just in case. It really makes no sense not to in LOS, as there's usually no additional cost to do that.

And the airconditioned bus to Pattaya is really one of the more simple and pleasant ones around -- nothing like some of the ones you'll get outcountry. Simple and cheap, and leaving every twenty minutes or so. Once you're back to Bangkok, just beware the cabbies around Ekkamai, as they're out to gouge tourists big-time, and generally won't do much negotiating, preferring to wait for another sucker who doesn't know what he's doing.

[MuffDriver]

gentlemen,

here’s my report on two recent trips to pattaya. many times, the question is often asked on the best way to get to pattaya. i think it mostly depends on your flight’s arrival time. if you’ve been flying all day and night and arrive after 8pm, i’d recommend getting a room in bangkok (reserve it in advance for the best rates), find yourself a hhhh (hot hired humping ho), hump away short time or long time (up to you!), and head down to pattaya the next day. if you don’t mind spending around 1000 baht, hire a cab, but negotiate the price up front, as many others on the board have recommended. personally, the cab drivers drive too recklessly for me and may not be clear on exactly where you want to end up in pattaya, so i think the minibus (at about 350 baht) is probably a better option. not only does it cost less, but they’ll also give you the same door-to-door service as a taxi. if you want to maximize your available funds for the hhhh’s, taking the air-conditioned bus is the best option. if you decide to take the air-conditioned bus, here are some suggestions.

take the skytrain station to the ekkamai (# e7) station. before you head down the stairs, take a peek over the side of the station platform, and you will see the bus station for air-conditioned buses. go to the far right hand side of the station, and you'll see a ticket window with a sign posted for pattaya. pay your 90 baht, and take note of your assigned seat number; people seem to want to sit in their assigned seats. after you arrive at the pattaya bus station, go to any of the baht buses (guaranteed to be waiting for arriving buses) and give the name of your hotel to any of the gentlemen waiting by the baht buses. after you get off the bus (they may not drop you off immediately in front of your hotel, but they will point the way), pay your 20 baht.

cost: skytrain 20-50 baht
bus ride 90 baht
baht bus 20 baht
total =130-160 baht (what a deal!)

buses leave from the ekkamai station every half hour during the day; it takes about two hours to get there.

before you leave the bangkok airport (upon arrival), if you plan to spend any time at all in bangkok go to the information desk on the arrivals level and pick up a free city map. this map, which should be available in english, provides a lot of city/landmark detail and includes the routes/stations covered by the skytrain. if you’re traveling to downtown bangkok, don’t bother with the taxi stand on the arrivals level of the bangkok airport; i’ve been charged as much as 350 baht (including tolls), and i know someone who was charged 1100 baht round trip, or 550 each way. instead, go to the departure level (upstairs level), hail down a cab that just delivered someone to the airport, and make sure the driver understands that the meter should be used for the drive. if you arrive late at night, you can elect to avoid paying the 70 baht expressway toll by asking the driver to take the regular streets (under the elevated expressway), and it won’t take you much longer to reach downtown. if you’re arriving any other time, take the expressway, as bangkok traffic ranks among the busiest in the world. using the surface streets, the base fare should be around 140-160 baht.

okay, so now you’re in pattaya. where do you stay? i visited both flipper hotels on soi 7 and soi 8 and checked out the rooms. the rooms at the flipper hotel on soi 8 seemed nicer to me, and you’re right in the middle of the action. but if you don’t like the noise, maybe the flipper hotel on soi 7 is a better choice for you. i stayed at the eastiny place hotel…..note that there are two hotels with the name eastiny on soi 8. the one nearest to 2nd road (eastiny place) has the best rooms and is the newest. all of these hotels are girl friendly (i confirmed this with the receptionists) and offer rooms for 700-800 baht per night. make sure you confirm that they’ll include breakfast. one two separate occasions, eastiny place told me that my rate did not include breakfast. this required me to whip out my (email) confirmation and show them that i was quoted 750 baht per night including breakfast. on my second visit to this hotel, they tried to pull the same crap and copped a bit of an attitude about it. i had my email confirmation handy again, and that was that. the food at the eastiny place’s restaurant is fairly good and the service there is very good. they have a couple of nice-looking and helpful waitresses working there (dinner only). one night, one of the waitresses was a bit flirty; she seasoned my pad thai like the locals prefer and began spoon (well, actually it was a fork) feeding me my meal. i wouldn’t have minded getting a piece of her but i had other plans, like “fcuking” and not dating. next time, i’m going to try staying at the flipper hotel on soi 8. oh, did i mention that both flipper hotels have rooftop swimming pools?!! i have also stayed at the sabai inn on soi 2. this is also a good choice. the service is good, rooms are about 800 baht (or less) per night including breakfast, and girls are always welcomed. i like that the hotel reception always asks for the girl’s identification card (for your safety). the hotel’s manager is mr. aan (pronounced like “on”), a young man who has always made sure that i had a quiet room and a good time at his hotel. the bad part about the sabai inn is that they don’t have a swimming pool, but their sister hotel (immediately across the street) the sabai lodge does. i think the rooms are slightly better at the sabai inn, and i also like the fact that no one (like a jealous tg), can get close to your room without the hotel reception knowing about it; some of the rooms at the sabai lodge have “exterior” room access.

if you need to pick up some souvenirs (like cheap polo shirts or watches), try the mike shopping center or royal garden plaza shopping center. these are both toward soi 13 and have entrances on beach road and 2nd road. if you want to save some money on eyeglasses (ok, i have four eyes, but i’m no nerd), try the optical shop on the first floor at the royal garden plaza shopping center, located behind the escalators near the entrance on the 2nd road side. i paid $75 per pair of glasses, including lenses (with scratch resistant and anti-reflective coatings) and frames (very modern designs); they are willing to negotiate here. i brought my own prescription with me from home, so i didn’t need the free eye exam that they offered. the royal garden plaza shopping center has all the fast food restaurants you’ll ever need, including mcdonalds, burger king, kfc, and a few others. they also have a good food court on the top floor. the vendors at the food court only take pre-paid meal cards, which can be purchased at the food court’s entrance. 100 baht should be enough for a hearty meal, including your soft drink. this shopping center also has a cinema on the 2nd floor; if you decide to take in a movie, you won’t believe how inexpensive it is. two admissions, two drinks, and a large popcorn should set you back no more than $6.00. atm’s are located inside this shopping center and also at the mike shopping center (on the beach road side, outside the shopping center building). if you stay near soi 2, the big c shopping center is a good place to pick up food, trinkets, and trash. big c has a good cinema and a number of decent restaurants to get a cheap meal. if you want to relax and stay away from the beer bars for a few hours, hang out at the big c after 8 o’clock. listen to either of the two outdoor bands, have a beer, and give your willie a chance to rest/recover from all the “boom boom” you’ll be getting in pattaya.

now, let’s talk about the reason why anyone would really come to pattaya. there are those esteemed gentlemen on this board who will tell you that pattaya isn’t worth a visit. however, these same gentlemen seem to have a lot of current information on pattaya, which leads me to believe that they haven’t completely abandoned this place. while there may be other (perhaps better, but that’s an individual value judgment) places to visit, a guy can have a great time in bangkok and pattaya, especially if you’re like those of us who can only slip away to los for a few weeks at a time. there may be more stunning girls in bangkok, but they’re more expensive and bring a lot of attitude to the table (or uh, bedroom). it seems to me that the big city girls (maybe as in any other big city) aren’t as accommodating. if you are the kind of guy who strictly follows z’s 3f approach, then bangkok provides a lot of great choices. if you like to occasionally go long time or shag the same bird more than once, then pattaya could be a better choice for you. to minimize any problems, always negotiate your deal up front with your hhhh; if she won’t do what you want, as long as you want, or as many times as you want, move on to one of the thousands of other thai papayas there for your pleasure. if you choose to deviate from the 3f’s, make sure you don’t succumb to the charms of these girls! they’ve perfected the art of catering to men; sure some of them may simply be generous with their time and effort, while (most?) others expect something in return. let me tell you a little story about something that happened to me while i was in pattaya.

i selected a little cutie named mai one night. she had this hot librarian look, which sometimes gets me going. anyway, we took our obligatory shower before getting on the job, and she tells me that she might receive a couple of phone calls that she would need to take. we had all night together, and so i didn’t care. she tells me that she’s got an irishman and a swede on the hook, who send her money on a regular basis. the irishman called first. she told him that she was with a friend and smiled at me. i was already massaging her tits when the call came in, and i was in no mood to stop so i didn’t. she was giving him answers that you might read in private dancer…..i couldn’t believe it. it got so corny that i started feeding her lines, which she delivered to her irish “boyfriend”. at this point, i started to caress her thighs and stroke her papaya. she opened up her legs, and not wanting to decline her invitation to insert my fingers inside her, i did so. all this happened while she was talking with this sucker. the swede called in the middle of the conversation with the irishman, and mai told him that she’d call him back in a few minutes. after she finished her first phone call, she said, “why are people so stupid?” i couldn’t help but agree with her. she calls back the swede, and starts speaking swedish! mai told me that she learned swedish when she went to visit sucker #2 for a few months. after this call, she expressed her clear impatience for farang stupidity. not more than a few minutes after the second phone call was finished, i strapped on a jolly and got down to business. the next day, i took mai again, because she was so good in the sack. the next day, she whips out a bank (sent via western union) receipt, which shows that the irishman had wired her approximately $200.00. she asked me if i could tell her what some of the words meant on the receipt. bottom line guys…..don’t be a sucker! if you let yourself fall into this trap, you probably deserve it, especially after reading all the warnings posted on this website. have fun, treat the girls well, pay them fairly (but don’t overpay), but take care not to fall for a hooker!

if you’re the type of guy who could even consider falling for one of these bar girls, i strongly urge you to stay close to z’s 3f rule. mr. adlez’s advice is particularly valuable for you type of guys. i’m not saying that anyone needs to change who he is (or what he likes to do); i’m only suggesting that you be aware of what you’re doing and what your female companion is attempting to do to you!

on to specific suggestions. much has been written about bj bars, so i decided to try one. i went to the king kong bar on soi 6, and it was terrible. don’t waste your time here! okay, you can get a chick to blow and fuck you for no more than 500 baht (very dirty s/t hotel room included), but these chicks are a bunch of skanks. sometimes appearances can be overlooked for good servicing, but that’s not the case here. a better place to visit is nice with ice (now called the spice bar) on soi 13/2 (or 13/3?). though the name has changed, they’ll still give you “ice treatment” if you ask for it. larryone and i went to this place at the same time, and the girls did a nice job. they charge a fixed price, and the girl will blow you w/o a condom for an extra 100-200 baht (maximum!). the pump station is also a good place to visit for a quick release, if that suits your mood.

i went to the sabai dee massage parlour, and while a few girls are nice looking, there’s maybe only two or three great looking girls who work there. most girls are pretty average. sabailand seems to have better looking women, but since i prefer the hunt (okay, so it’s like dropping a hook in a barrel full of fish), i chose to pass on the massage parlours and concentrate on the beer bars. near the soi 2 area, there are some bars that seem to have some of the better looking beer bar girls. any of the bars on 2nd road near soi 2 would be good choices to have a beer, chat with the girls, or whatever. a beer bar is a beer bar is a beer bar. the only difference is that occasionally you find a really hot girl working there. one should never pay more than 500 baht s/t or 1000 baht l/t, no matter what you want the girl to do.

some of the better looking girls work at the go go bars. check out any of the go go bars on or just off walking street. the drawbacks: a little more expensive (still never pay more than 1000 s/t or 1500 l/t) and a little more antiseptic in their approach toward doing the deed(s).

by the way gents, it appears that i’ll be back in los (pattaya, of course) 18-25 february. any of you dudes want to meet up for a beer to compare stories?

[ricion]

Was in Pattaya 2 times... In bangkok just the first time because I thought it would be fun! But since I was very "newbye" I had only bad luck in Bangkok, the action, as I understood, was just in 2 streets, and prices were almost double as Pattaya, though the choice was less... I suppose I am completely poor in experience in that huge city... But I certainly was also in Pattaya the first time... Nevertheless it was obvious there that almost every single girl was there for.... FUN!

[GWillie]

My 2 cents worth on the subject. Personally, I don't like Bangkok. It's just a big dirty, nasty, smelly city. Pattaya is a bit more to my taste but I would prefer a place that is more relaxed. If Chiang Mai had more women to choose from it would be my choice.