Is Macunaima a Serial Antagonist?

[Carlos Primeros]

Hi Jackson,

This was a good decision.

Thank you

Carlos

[Sal Dali]

Jackson for Supreme Court Justice.

Seriously, thanks!

SD

Greetings Everyone,Therefore, I have decided to relegate him to his own thread titled "Macunaima in Brazil" where he is free to rant, rave and espouse his opinions to his heart's content. Those of you who wish to participate in discussions with him are welcome to do so in his thread.

Thanks,

Jackson

[Admin]

Greetings Everyone,

I've read everyone's comments and I have come to several conclusions:

1. Macunaima is not a monger, and consistently espouses a general disdain for those who choose to monger.

2. Macunaima repeats what is essentially the same general philosophical opinions, which is a form of SPAM.

3. Macunaima is constantly engaged in caustic exchanges with other Forum Members. In other words, he doesn't play and get along with others.

4. Macunaima appears to be an intelligent and knowledgeable individual, which is irrelevant in a serial antagonist evaluation.

Therefore, I have decided to relegate him to his own thread titled "Macunaima in Brazil" where he is free to rant, rave and espouse his opinions to his heart's content. Those of you who wish to participate in discussions with him are welcome to do so in his thread.

Thanks,

Jackson

[Bundalover]

He'e intelligent. He knows Rio well and has good insight into Brasilian culture. He writes exceptionally well. He is a wealth of information into rio and p4p. He has pissed off a few sensitive people of lower intelligence. Sure lets ban all the guys that take time to share their opinions then this forum would contain no useful information. I think he should be rewarded not banned.

[Carlos Primeros]

Hi - we are on the Macu´s Serial Anatgonist board and not discussing here if Copa has enough girls or not (at present time it has). So Please keept a little discipline.

Carlos

[Sal Dali]

This is the first I've heard of this. In fact, I just spoke to a friend who was there last week & mentioned nothing like this.

Please explain here or on the 2005 board. (particularly since I'm going to be there at the end of November)

Thanks!

SD

El Austriaco.

Anyway mongering in Rio is rather fucked up at this moment. Copacabana rather empty, no mongers no girls. I didn't see any newbies (girls) on my last visit and I gave up. VM was raided and the police is present 24/7... I heard a rumour that majority of the girls have moved to Fortaleza, Natal and Recife where all european tourists go for vacation, who knows.

Anyway happy mongering and be careful.....

P

[Ee2002]

I say ease up on Macu and let him be.If anything if what he is saying happens to be off the topic, then yes he should post in the general or living section.He makes sense about the garotas, it's better to be on the side of caution and be careful with the garotas, so you wont get hurt.I will agree that since he doesn't monger he doesn't get to see or experience what we are talking about, so I take his opinions/generalizations with a grain of salt.

Macu hopefully this is clue for you to tone down a bit and direct your posts in the appropriate section.As far as what Brazilians think about mongerers, not too many people who don't monger care to much for this "hobby" no matter what country.Hell ,I never cared for P4P before, until I got my first taste in a foreign country(Mex),(still not into the U.S scene).Thats why I don't tell non mongers what I do and I keep a low profile when mongering,which is a good idea for EVERYONE in this game.

[El Austriaco]

Well, part of the reason that some Brazilians do look down on sex tourists might precisely be because we have been pictured in such a negative and downright inaccurate fashion in the media. If you got the impression that all sex tourists are basically kiddy-chasing pervert criminals, who would openly associate oneself with that?

About half a year ago, I chatted on the Internet with a college-educated lady, a marine biologist, from Fortaleza, who was complaining heavily about the tourists there. When I suggested to her that most sex tourists a) don't ever engage in anything illegal and b) they are not doing anything that the Brazilians are not doing themselves multifold, she pretty much freaked and basically told me that it was these tourists that were causing prostitution in the first place. Which, of course, is utterly preposterous, but I only thought I'd mention this to show how swept away even very intelligent people can get sometimes, totally ignoring the reality of the situation.

In other words, there's a lot of ignorance about mongering and prostitution. In addition, in the current political and social climate, it's politically correct to condemn mongering and prostitution.

But then, of course, some people might just not like to see things out in the open (sex tourism) that they secretly enjoy themselves. What I am trying to say is that admitting that one is a mongerer is almost always frowned upon in a Latin culture (I should know, I live in one). In women's eyes, it simply makes you a horrible person. The guys become scared that their wives might be thinking whether they are like that also, so they openly deny it. And the people that raise their eyebrow highest on you might just be the same people who do exactly the same as you, but just won't admit to it. Call them the closet mongerers. Those are the people that, once nobody else is listening to your conversation, will ask you for directions or beg you to take them along the next time. LOL.

The message could be from Nike: Just do it. Just don't talk about it (as long as my better half or anybody else could figure out I wanna do it, too).

I don't know what your experience has been, Perkele, but I really haven't felt any resentment against me in Rio. And every time I went to one of the local termas or cheap *****houses, the guys that were there actually were so suprised to see a gringo there that they bought me drinks, showed me their other favorite mongering places, took me out on the town, so quite to the contrary. Seriously. But maybe that was because I speak Portuguese, keep a low profile, and just behave like anyone else trying to have a good time without causing any trouble. Who knows.

And from the sheer numbers of Brazilians that go there, it doesn't matter what they say or think about sex tourism.

So in other words, people who condem sex tourism might just be ignorant, politically correct, or hypocritical. Or everything at the same time. Remember, talk is cheap. They don't have to put their money where their mouth is.

EA

[Perkele]

El Austriaco.

Well argumented point of view, but still you see this issue from your mongering point of view. Yes it is true that you can take a girl to just about any hotel in Rio without problems but they allow this only because the competition is very high in Rio, there will always be hotels that allow 'quests' so majority allows them.

'Normal' brasilians do not accept mongers and sexual tourism in any form, minors or not. This I have learned through my brasilian friends who never said anything until I asked how they see that kind of tourism. Actually every brasilian I've spoken to wishes that the economy would increase so much that no woman would be in need to become a prostitute.

On the otherhand I have lots of friends in Copa who benefit directly or indirectly from sexual tourism and they totally agree with it and wish that there would be more mongers in Rio, which is rather empty nowadays.

Anyway mongering in Rio is rather fucked up at this moment. Copacabana rather empty, no mongers no girls. I didn't see any newbies (girls) on my last visit and I gave up. VM was raided and the police is present 24/7... I heard a rumour that majority of the girls have moved to Fortaleza, Natal and Recife where all european tourists go for vacation, who knows.

Anyway happy mongering and be careful.....

P

[El Austriaco]

i think you're a bit out of target on this statement. there is no anti-tourist sentiment in rio, never was and never will be. the thing that they are resenting is sexual tourism.

not entirely true. officially, the authorities are proclaiming to combat child sex tourism, i.e. the travel of tourists specifically for the purpose of having sex with minors, which is highly illegal. but like in so many other cases, of course, people conveniently fail to differentiate between regular mongers who have p4p sex with adults (nothing illegal about that) and the child sex tourists (who are criminals and should be treated as such). just look at the boat bust incident this past june and how it was covered in the press. allegations of drugs, of minors, which were covered quite a bit worldwide. all allegations which ultimately turned out to be incorrect. did you hear a lot about that in the press? no, you didn't. so despite what really happened, the impression remained the same: these are the sex tourists that come to brazil.

the fact is, as public opinion in western countries is increasingly shifting against mongering and sexual tourism as such (whether illegal or not), and laws are passed accordingly, third-world countries like brazil are coming under more and more pressure to do something about it. and since western governments are ready to put their dollars where their mouth is, countries like brazil also handily profit from that. but of course, the semiliberal public still wouldn't care all that much unless this wasn't being touted as a crusade on behalf of the "poor children being exploited by perverted western tourists".

who gains from that?

- the brazilian government - by getting money to combat sex tourism, free press coverage abroad, and coming off as getting tough on child tourists. great and free advertising (and political benefits, of course).
- the different organizations working on stopping prostitution - by getting funding for their different programs, as has been correctly pointed out by macu, btw.
- the media - because a story like "28 american sex tourists busted" is just so much more of a seller than "americans arrested for visa violations". so who cares about the truth here?

and of course, with so many winners, there has to be a loser. a villain, that's what's needed. and who would that be? all of us mongers, who are being portrayed by a lot of people as vicious drug addicted perverts corrupting innocent children abroad. in brazil, in the states, everywhere, and it's just getting worse. and whether what we do is actually legal or illegal doesn't really matter all that much to whose out there who just think that mongering and p4p are the worst sins under the sun.

that's the game being played here.

in that respect, i have to give macu credit, and i have to agree with bangu. macu is one of the few people researching prostitution that is not conducting his research for the specific purpose of curbing or denying us our rights, based on what he's posted here. to see that may take going beyond the recent discussion in the rio 2005 reports section, but it's here, too. he might be caustic, he might be confrontational, even demeaning, and he might be antagonistic at times. but at least, he doesn't have a hidden agenda.

i just say, let's be fair.

but in rio, is there resentment against legal sex tourism? in the hotels, in the cafes, in the termas, in the love motels? of course not. in the hotel where i stayed this year and last year, at the reception desk, there was this huge poster advising of the illegality of **** sex. at the same time, was it any problem taking a girl to the room, of course after properly documenting her and verifying her age? no, it wasn't. so i feel safe to say that while the brazilian governement, authorities and the press might be inclined to create a stir sometimes, it's mostly to show off, and life just goes on as usual in rio de janeiro. the way it should.

i'd be more concerned about our western governments, though.

i am just sorry that nobody, really nobody, is doing anything about real child molesters. whether brazilian or child sex tourists, p4p or not.

[Exec Talent]

bango,

i think you have missed the point, even though you seem to know how to read. this site is for those of us who have "been there, done that" or are planning to "be there, doing that." the trip reports thread is for shared experiences.

if i wanted social commentary from some academic, i am sure i can find it. if i wanted to listen to doctor phil, all i have to do is turn on the tv. the reason i come to this site is to gain insight from others who have had real experiences.

i have nothing against macunaima personally. don't know him, don't care to. have nothing against his message, which is neither new nor enlightening. the problem that i have is he is not in the game. his comments are for the sole benefit of satisfying his ego. like i said previously, he probably lists this site as a place he has published on his cv.

i am all for free speech, just not freeloaders. get in the game, spend your nickel, then tell us about it. i am all ears. ramble on endlessly about something of which you have no firsthand knowledge and find yourself talking to the wall because i walked away long ago.

i encourage people to vote to ban him. he has had his 15 minutes of ego-inflating fame. let's move on to discussing real experiences and sharing real information, not idle speculation from some academic.

[Perkele]

You guys may or may not realize it, but there is a GROWING anti-tourist sentiment there these days. If you think he is anti-prostitution, I suggest you re-read his posts, or simply learn how to read in the first place!

I think you're a bit out of target on this statement. There is no anti-tourist sentiment in Rio, never was and never will be. The thing that they are resenting is SEXUAL tourism. Now its important to understand that these 2 issues are not related. There are loads of tourists who do not participate mongering activities and they are and will be always welcome. Whereas mongers are not so welcome, mainly because in last few years that activity hasn't been discreet and quite a few have been looking for minors (which really pisses brasilians off).
What comes to Macu, he has a bad habit of preaching and looking down mongers. This pisses the mongers off.
Anyway no observer knows how any activity works. You can watch any sports in TV but it doesn't make you a player, no matter how much you 'observe'.

[Carlos Primeros]

More and more it looks like Macu will be banned - Jackson is doing it the right way asking the members and not just banning him.

If the majority says now: ban, so ban him, where is the problem. I am just in Rio and I have fun and use ISG all the time as a reference. There are escellent reports and I do not want to have people refrain from posting only because they are afraid to be ¨relegated¨by our Heroi sem caracter.

I am for free speach but this does not mean others can be intimdated and lectured.

My two centavos for today

Carlos

[Bango Cheito]

Ironically, Macunaima is actually one of the moderators at Brazzil.com :P

I don't see him as being off topic. He has his pet issues but they are all on-topic. He is often responding to an original poster's off-topic post. If EVERYBODY would save the reports section for just reports it would make the forum better as a whole, but it's probably never going to happen.

I certainly don't have any problem with him bursting the bubble of tourons who think they are 'in love.' Any argument about him being inappropriate for this board could be directed against a number of those sorts of posters many times over IMO.

And yes, he IS one of the only voices of reason down in Rio right now. You guys may or may not realize it, but there is a GROWING anti-tourist sentiment there these days. If you think he is anti-prostitution, I suggest you re-read his posts, or simply learn how to read in the first place!

[J Wadd]

He should be shot, burned-alive-while-dying and his dead body fired out of a cannon in front of Help while all the P4P garotas clap, laugh and perform public BBBJs for 25R.

Just kidding,
JWadd