Macunaima in Brazil

[JohnnyBraz]

I find some off the stuff interesting that mac has to say, some to be very good information. Can't understand why he does it though, if he isn't a monger.

[Member #4156]

Hey, I actually enjoyed sitting back watching him drive some of you mongers crazy.

[Exec Talent]

I doubt that Macunaima will respond to your post.
His post that you quoted was almost three years old.

What are you doing nowadays, Macunaima?

When he was relegated to his own thread and no longer FELT he was the center of attention here, he decided to take over and bore people on another forum.

[Sperto]

I doubt that Macunaima will respond to your post.

His post that you quoted was almost three years old.

What are you doing nowadays, Macunaima?

[Dwilso39]

Well, I'm not a consumer of sexual services, BB, so I'm the wrong guy to ask about any given call girl service. But regarding "university students"...

Here in Brazil we have two kinds of universities: the very good and the very bad. there is hardly any middle ground, as there is in the States. We do not have, for example, universities like, say, CU Boulder, UC San Diego or the University of Oklahoma, all perfectly satisfactory, if unspectacular institutions. Here, in order to get into a good school, one needs to pass what's called the vestibular, which is a very tough entrance exam - worse than the SAT, ACT or GRE combined. If you don't make it, you don't get in, no matter what your connections.

On the low end, however, there are a ton of schools which will take pretty much near anyone, as long as they have cash. Globo did a story a couple of years ago about how they managed to place an illiterate guy in UniverCidade he in town.

All of the pros I've met who are in school come from these kind of universities and, in every case so far, their entry into prostituion predates their entry into school. They are thus not pros in order to pay for school: they are in school in order to prepare for their leaving prostituion. usually, this escape strategy is combined with others, such as looking for a husband or getting overseas.

So the idea that being a "university girl" is somehow synonymous with "not really" being a prostitute doesn't quite work here. Few women in good schools turn tricks. Why? They don't need to. The federal and state schools - which are generally the best schools in Brazil - are free.

If a girl tells you she's studying full-time at UFRJ, UFF, UFFR, UERJ or PUC, it's something to be impressed with. Most other schools are basically "buy a diploma" mills and even then, few pros manage to make their way completely through their coursework. why? Because it becomes obvious after a year or two studying at these places that their diplomas usually aren't worth the paper they are printed on. There are some exceptions, such as Cândido Mendes (UCAM), perhaps, but they are few and far between. Pros aren't stupid and usually figure out that they are being robbed pretty quickly.

You are not going to find many bonafide professional women and university students from good schools turbning tricks because usually they don't have to. There are, of course, exceptions, but presenting oneself as a poor girl who needs to turn tricks in order to study is a very old strategy here.

Full Throttle, I've been very open about what the work I'm doing is going to result in: an anthropological study of sexual tourism and prostitution in Copacabana. This will almost certainly be in book form and, if all goes well, it'll be ready about three years from now. In the meantime, it's articles, articles, articles, work with Davida and the occasional conference presentation.

I've said this from day one, but that was a while ago, so maybe you didn't see it. In any case, it's no deep secret. :-)

Whether or not a pro ocasionally cums really isn't at issue. I'm certain it does happen from time to time. But I'm also QUITE certain that a guy who goes down on a pro is giving her a VERY clear message: he wants her to cum. And the customer is king in this business.

Frankly, the only people who are REALLY able to tell are the women themselves, and they deny it. They know more about their experiences that we do, so I have no reason to doubt their word. It's not like it's a stigma to come with a client: hell, most pros probably want to, in fact. Anything to kill the boredom.

Most folks don't realize this, but aside from brief spurts of terror, sex work is usually incredibly fucking boring. You are being paid, essentially, to fulfill someone's fantasy. Mostly this means shut up and look nice and feign pleasure while the other person natters on about their life. This is true whether the pro and/or the client is a man or a woman. I used to get paid big bucks not for dancing, but for sitting in booths afterwards, drinking ginger ale at 15 bucks a glass and smiling, while the Junior League from East Sheepshag, Missouri, got wasted and bitched about their husbands, jobs, kids and life in general.

That part is basically the same everywhere. We see it every night in Copa, don't we?

I have to just say "thank you"; you have de-bunked one of the all time GDP lies. The questions is: why do they continue to feed their clients these lies.

BTW, women in America do the say thing!

[Lazy Monger]

If you look at the pictures or videos made by the average American monger, most are recreations of American porn rather than a reflection of the sexual behavior of the local population. The reality of economics affords them the opportunity to realize certain fantasies otherwise not available to them. Being economically more viable than their third world counterparts allow American women to be more selective about whom they choose to do those nasty little things that we all love but it doesn't mean they won't do them.

While mongering has provided me with some cheap, sport fucking experiences, however stateside "girlfriend sex" is where I have had my more adventurous times. While we compare American porn to Brazilian porn it is important to note that the American porn industry is undergoing a crisis because of the proliferation of free amateur porn on the internet. Not to mention that as hard as it is at times to get a pro from a popular sex tourist destination to take a picture would we see a phenomenon such as "Girls Gone Wild" happening in many of these destinations.

If you are in the right demographic, non pro sex in the states trumps pros in Brazil. It all comes down to access.

[Jan 156]

On the orgasm issue generally...


Well, with rergards to a woman's orgasm, again, all I have to say is this...

It doesn't take a good actress to fake one as they are so internal and subjective. In fact, I suspect only the really poor actresses will go into hystrionics: the good ones will just lay back, think of how they're gonna pay there bills, sigh a bit and squeeze their muscles.

Secondly, when you go down on a pro, you are giving her a very, very clear sign of what YOU want. It doesn't take a particularly smart woman to figure this one out and thus receive a cue for the show.

Finally, it's obvious that you enjoy this sort of thing, and you are paying to enjoy it. This means that you're about as far away from an objective observor as possible: you are in fact paying to consume an illusion.

Now, as I said before, I HAVE seen pros ocasionally claim that they cum with a client, but this is doen in a very off-handed and sort of "who'd-a-thunkit" kind of way. This isn't the style of women who are secretly admitting to violating a taboo.

I CERTAINLY do not think pros cum 20% of the time, even if you go down on them and every pro I've ever interviewed, talked, to read has expressed amazment that their clients can be so ego-centric as to believe that they are with them for some other reason - any other reason - than cash.

Bottom-line: we're a very cordial country and while we may not be as "developed" as the U.s. in economic terms, we are HIGHLY developed in terms of social relations. After 20 years of life here, I'm constantly amazed at the subtly and power of Brazilian machiavellian manipulation of emotion. Perhaps "Machiavellian" isn't the right term. In any case, I feel - and I think most long-term residents of this country will agree with this - that there's NO WAY to conclusively tell what someone really thinks about you here and if the claim to love you after an hour - or even a week, for that matter - watch the fuck out. I know of no sophisticated, urbane and experienced Brazilian, male or female, who would ever see these kinds of claims with anything but deep suspicion, for all that they might smile at the person uttering them.

Macu wrote such sound stuff I was re-reading some of it. The line that caught my attention was,

"Now, as I said before, I HAVE seen pros ocasionally claim that they cum with a client, but this is doen in a very off-handed and sort of "who'd-a-thunkit" kind of way."

I thought this was such a clever description. It chimes perfectly with the (non-Brasilian) descriptions of women I've dated who have been GDPs at an earlier period of their life. When a person is doing such a quantity of sex as a GDP, what *they* put in is lots. What an *individual punter* puts in is fairly negligible except in terms of cash and sometimes being a generally nice and easy-going trick.

Apart from the obvious (that Macu mentions - it fulfils the male fantasy) there are some other reasons why a woman will encourage a man to go down on her.

a) it makes him feel special that he has 'made her feel special' which makes him a better business prospect. It means there's a nice set emotional pattern to emulate.

b) practically, which is more effort, going down on a guy or letting him go down on you? Doesn't take a genius to work that out. And if you get paid the same . . .

I quite enjoy it if I manage to 'give' a GDP an orgasm occasionally - even more so if I believe it was a real one (someone on this thread spouted some stuff from Wiki which Macu pointed out is near to rubbish - the correct non-fake-able signs of orgasm are delinieated in Masters and Johnson's volume, Human Sexual response. Stuff like changes in the aureole and skin blushes, and they don't even happen with all women, so sometime there is no scientific sign at all. And the contraction stuff can all be learnt.) But if she has an orgasm while I'm down on her, or in her, I treat it as Macu described - I am a minor detail - in her mind it is her that has 'achieved' an orgasm - I am no more significant to her in that respect than a salt cellar at a good meal. {I don't care too much cos the reason I go down on her is that I like the smell and taste. Her pleasure from my pov is window dressing.}

Macu got flamed so persistently that he left. I hope some woman is going down on him at this moment and giving him more pleasure than he got on here lol. ;-)

[El Austriaco]

Haven't heard from you in a while, and I miss your insights. How is your book progressing? Any things you would like to share?

EA

[Jan 156]

Termas Busted?

I have a problem with Rio if they bust Termas and only arrest Blacks yankees.

The best advice for a Black American is to make a strong effort to thwart the stereotype. Many women in Rio have told me they don't like Black Americans (and others don't have a problem). The stereotype is someone who talks in a loud voice, throws money around, and acts superior. Speaking softly, with a lot of sincerity, and treating all human beings as if they worth the same will melt a lot of hearts. The cops in this case have either picked up on the girls' prejudice or else feel a similar one themselves. Americans often talk in a loud voice when they travel, and I can understand many people finding this a bit offensive. In Thailand, the prejudice is against Arabs, who have a reputation for acting as if others were a lower form of life (many girls will not service them and some cafes have signs up saying no Arabs). It is not so much that they are rude but there is a clash of cultures.

This doesn't make it right, but if you are going fro a short visit it may be something you have to decide how to deal with. Demanding your rights in Brasil, whether with a hooker or with the police, will not get you far. Working with gentleness and respect will get more results. It may sound like common sense and maybe what you would do anyway, but in Brasil it will move more mountains than in developed countries.

[Macunaima]

It's for real and believe me, we're as puzzled as you. I can't, for the life of me, figure out what Fat Tony thinks he's going to gain with this manuever. In one fell swoop, he's become the laughing stock of Brazil. It's as if Clinton had decided to go on a hunger strike because the media was picking on him over Lewinsky. The press would have had a field day with that, and they're having a field day with Chubby here, too.

The only CONCEIVABLE way he could get any sympathy would be for him to really, visually drop some 30 kilos and suffer. Knowing Fat Tony, however, that's about as likely as Clinton staying away from a Mickey D's for a month. And even then, all he'd get would be a nice slap on the back from the media and a "Well, you did your level best, son."

The only folks who are impressed with this are his most brain-dead supporters, who are all going to vote for him anyway. To everyone else, he's just become the biggest joke in the country.

So the question isn't "is this going to have an effect?" because we know the answer to that already: no, it won't, unless by "effect" you mean to deflate Garotinho's already low political capital even further.

The question is, what does a normally wily political in-fighter like Garotinho think he's going to get out of this? THAT'S the question that's got me up at nights. Either he's finally completely self-destructing before our eyes, or there's something up that size XXL sleeve that we haven't seen yet.

[Tiradentes]

Is this guy for real?

Anthony Garotinho, the former governor of Rio, is on a hunger strike, because he doesn't like the coverage he's getting from the media. My question is how effective will this novela be? Will the brazilian people feel any symapthy for a rich chubby man (who probably need to go on diet anyaway).?

Noting that 50 millions brazilian go to sleep each day hungry, not because they wanna look good on Ipanema Beach, but because they can't afford to buy food. I tell you these people.

And one more thing, why do you cariocas keep on electing these Garotinhos clowns?

Rosario did a terrible job in her state, compared to the jobs done by the governors of SP and MG.

[Macunaima]

Parker's book is worth reading, but it's been heavily criticized for buying too much into the "Brazil is an exotic sexual country" theory. I've seen some decent thesises which take Parker apart. Nevertheless, it's worth reading, if you keep your skepticals on.

[Gladiator]

Richard Parker, a Columbia University anthropologist who is the author of "Bodies, Pleasures and Passions: Sexual Culture in Contemporary Brazil," and has taught and worked here.

Macu,

Thanks for quoting that article, it's interesting.

Have you read this book by R Parker? If so, what do you think of it?

I'm just curious and want to know if it's worth reading it.

[Ee2002]

Sure did Mac,After you posted it back in Nov,I bought that book in Rio.Good book, recommended if you can read Port.

[Macunaima]

Remember Bruna the Surfer Chic, who we discussed below? Well, she finally made it to the New York Times. Remember, you heard about her here first! LOL





She Who Controls Her Body Can Upset Her Countrymen

By LARRY ROHTER
Published: April 27, 2006
SÃO PAULO, Brazil — She goes by the name Bruna, the Little Surfer Girl, and gives new meaning to the phrase "kiss and tell." First in a blog that quickly became the country's most popular and now in a best-selling memoir, she has titillated Brazilians and become a national celebrity with her graphic, day-by-day accounts of life as a call girl here.

Lalo de Almeida for The New York Times
A memoir by Raquel Pacheco, a prostitute who calls herself Bruna, the Little Surfer Girl, has sold 100,000 copies.
But it is not just her canny use of the Internet that has made Bruna, whose real name is Raquel Pacheco, a cultural phenomenon. By going public with her exploits, she has also upended convention and set off a vigorous debate about sexual values and practices, revealing a country that is not always as uninhibited as the world often assumes.
Interviewed at the office of her publisher here, Ms. Pacheco, 21, said the blog that became her vehicle to notoriety emerged almost by accident. But once it started, she was quick to spot its commercial potential and its ability to transform her from just another program girl, as high-class prostitutes are called in Brazil, into an entrepreneur of the erotic.
"In the beginning, I just wanted to vent my feelings, and I didn't even put up my photograph or phone number," she said. "I wanted to show what goes on in the head of a program girl, and I couldn't find anything on the Net like that. I thought that if I was curious about it, others would be too."
Ms. Pacheco parlayed that inquisitiveness into a best seller, "The Scorpion's Sweet Poison," that has made her a sort of sexual guru. A mixture of autobiography and how-to manual, her book has sold more than 100,000 copies since it was published late last year, and has just been translated into Spanish.
At book signings, Ms. Pacheco said, "80 percent of the public is women, which I didn't expect at all," because most of the readers of her blog appeared to be men, including customers who "wanted to see how I had rated their performance." As she sees it, the high level of female interest in her sexual experiences reflects a gap here between perceptions about sex and the reality.
"I think there's a lot of hypocrisy and a bit of fear involved," she said. "Brazilian women have this sexy image, of being at ease and uninhibited in bed. But anyone who lives here knows that's not true."
Carnival and the general sensuality that seems to permeate the atmosphere can give the impression that Brazil is unusually permissive and liberated, especially compared with other predominantly Roman Catholic nations. But experts say the real situation is far more complicated, which explains both Bruna's emergence and the strong reactions she has provoked.
"Brazil is a country of contradictions, as much in relation to sexuality as anything else," said Richard Parker, a Columbia University anthropologist who is the author of "Bodies, Pleasures and Passions: Sexual Culture in Contemporary Brazil," and has taught and worked here. "There is a certain spirit of transgression in daily life, but there is also a lot of moralism."
As a result, some Brazilians have applauded Bruna's frankness and say it is healthy to get certain taboos out in the open, like what both she and academic researchers say is a national penchant for anal sex. But others decry her celebrity as one more noxious manifestation of free-market economics and globalization.
"This is the fruit of a type of society in which people will do anything to get money, including selling their bodies to be able to buy cellular phones," said Maria Clara Lucchetti Bingemer, a newspaper columnist and professor of theology at Catholic University in Rio de Janeiro. "We've always had prostitution, but it was a hidden, prohibited thing. Now it's a professional option like anything else, and that's the truly shocking thing."
But Gabriela Silva Leite, a sociologist and former prostitute who now directs a prostitutes' advocacy group, argues that such concerns are exaggerated. "It's not a book like this that is going to stimulate prostitution, but the lack of education and opportunities for women," she said. "I don't think Bruna glamorizes things at all. On the contrary, you can regard the book as a kind of warning, because she talks of the unpleasant atmosphere and all the difficulties she faced."
Part of the controversy stems simply from Ms. Pacheco's forthright and unapologetic tone about her work. Traditionally, Brazilians feel sympathy for the poor woman selling her body to feed her children; she is seen as a victim of the country's glaring social and economic inequalities.
But Ms. Pacheco does not fit that mold. She comes from a middle-class family and turned to prostitution, she said, both as rebellion against her strict parents and because she wanted to be economically independent.
That a woman is now talking and behaving as Brazilian men often have may also offend some. Roberto da Matta, a leading anthropologist and social commentator, noted that even though role reversals were an important part of Carnival, other areas of Brazilian life, including sexual relationships, could be quite rigid and hierarchical.
Under the system of machismo that prevails in Brazil and other Latin American countries, "only a man has a right to command his own sex life, and that control is seen as a basic attribute of masculinity," he explained. "So when a young, attractive, intelligent woman appears and says she is a prostitute, you have a complete inversion of roles, leaving men fragile in a terrain where she is the boss, not them."
For all her willingness to break taboos, though, Ms. Pacheco's current life plan is conventional. She has a steady boyfriend and hopes to marry him, and is studying for the national college entrance exam, with a mind to majoring in psychology.
"Being Bruna was a role that left its mark on me, but I can't abandon her," Ms. Pacheco said. "There are people who still call me Bruna, and I don't mind, but I wouldn't want to be her for the rest of my life."
Nor is Ms. Pacheco immune to the influence of pudor, a concept important throughout Latin America that combines elements of modesty, decency, propriety and shame. In her book, rather than write out the words commonly used on the street to describe sexual acts and organs, she prints only their first letters, with dots indicating what everyone already knows.
"I think it's quite vulgar to say the whole word," she explained. "But I didn't want to be too formal, either."