General Reports

[Robert Long]

Not exactly sure of your question?

I have a Charles Schwab card and a number of other cards issue from my Credit Union. I've been using the Schwab for 10 years and my Credit Union cards even longer here. For personal reason, I only keep just enough here in a Thai Bank for emergencies and to satisfy Immigration.

When it comes to ATM's use, I try to use one institution and that is Aeon, it isn't a bank but a lending institution in Pattaya there are only two locations one at Big see extra and Lotus North Pattaya. As of today they only charge 150 baht and provide the best rate regardless of what card I use. For example, if the Internation rate is 32.00 after my withdraw and I go online and check the rate given is somewhere at 31.50-60. In the past prior to my withdraw I've gone by T. T. Exchange booth which is the best in my opinion in Pattaya the rate for 50-100 bills might be 31.75-80, then I do a final pass by at the Bangkok Bank exchange booth near the food court Big see extra the rate for 50-100 USD is somewhere like 31.38.

So when you compare Cash exchanges vs. ATM withdraw out of Aeon it isn't far off it is the expense I pay for the convenience plus as you noted when I use my Schwab card fees are return end of the month. Now to your question?

When it comes to any of the Thai bank ATM depending on the type of card that is being used some cards like Schwab will not allow the Thai bank to dictate their rates to you. Your request for money will be done at the current International rate so if the rate is at 32.00 at Bank like Bangkok Bank ATM using a Schwab card might give you at best 31.50, I've found many times the ATM rate out of a Thai bank ATM will be pretty close to the rate they are giving you at one of their exchange booth for 50-100 USD bill minus the 220 baht the Thai ATM charges.

Here is how the Thai bank scam you when using their ATM like Bangkok Bank. As I noted I also use Debit cards issue by my Credit Union. Using Aeon ATM this doesn't happen only with Thai ATM's. When I put my card and request amount after it asks me whether I except the 220 charges which I push YES, the next screen will show you an entire breakdown of all the fees you will be paying you will also see the exchange rate they are providing if you accept the transaction. If the international rate is at 32.00 you will note the suggested rate will be something like 30.90 far below the International rate or a ATM like Aeon is providing. This is the scam of the Thai Bank if you are using a card that allows the Thai bank to dictate the rate.

If you are using a card like my Credit union and you get this breakdown on the screen. For a long time since I needed the money and thought I had no choice I push Yes thinking I had to but you can push NO, by doing so you are declining the suggested rate and it automatically reverts to the Internation rate which should give you more like 31.38-31.50 closes to the 32.00? By simple pushing NO, when you go back and do the math the Thai bank basically took an extra 800-900 baht for the transaction by providing you a rate far below.

I hope that helps? Good luck.

That is just what I wanted to know. I bring cash but in a pinch I have debit cards and CC cards for last minute needs.

Thank you.

RL.

[Goferring]

How do NON American expats get large sums of money to Thailand (ie. Those who do not have access to Charles Schwab and Fidelity)? I know there is Transferwire but are there better ways for large sums? I am considering buying a car.

I discovered Aeon by accident. As LBM said Aeon charges less than other ATM machines for withdrawals but IIRC they had a low withdraw limit?

What's your definition of "better ways" and "large sums".

As the amounts become bigger the FX rate becomes more important than the fees. I've found Transferwise beats Australian bricks and mortar banks for speed and nett amount received. After you get the required account numbers etc together, I find it easy to use.

A transfer of AUD 50 k today would have the recipient receive 1,126,658. 50 THB after fees.

[Kerrstar]

I know there is Transferwire but are there better ways for large sums? I am considering buying a car.

Try some of the other money transfer sites. I use Currencyfair but they don't transfer to Thailand at the moment. I'm not sure about Oanda, OzForex (or whatever they are called now), or other sites as I usually only need to transfer large sums to Australia.

When I'm in Thailand I just use an ATM since I'm only usually there for a few days and only need around 10,000 baht.

[Banana Boi]

How do NON American expats get large sums of money to Thailand (ie. Those who do not have access to Charles Schwab and Fidelity)? I know there is Transferwire but are there better ways for large sums? I am considering buying a car.

I discovered Aeon by accident. As LBM said Aeon charges less than other ATM machines for withdrawals but IIRC they had a low withdraw limit?

[Rick Rock]

Same deal with Fidelity debit card at Thai ATMs. Exchange rate is whatever is posted at that moment on XE.com, which is much better than any place I can exchange US $100 bills for Thai baht.

Yep. And then the outrageous ATM fee is refunded to you at the end of the month.

[LittleBigMan]

I have both a Schwab CC and a Debit card. I wonder how you can choose, on an ATM, the difference between Visa ex rates and the "scam" Bank rates? Can anyone explain that?

Not exactly sure of your question?

I have a Charles Schwab card and a number of other cards issue from my Credit Union. I've been using the Schwab for 10 years and my Credit Union cards even longer here. For personal reason, I only keep just enough here in a Thai Bank for emergencies and to satisfy Immigration.

When it comes to ATM's use, I try to use one institution and that is Aeon, it isn't a bank but a lending institution in Pattaya there are only two locations one at Big see extra and Lotus North Pattaya. As of today they only charge 150 baht and provide the best rate regardless of what card I use. For example, if the Internation rate is 32.00 after my withdraw and I go online and check the rate given is somewhere at 31.50-60. In the past prior to my withdraw I've gone by T. T. Exchange booth which is the best in my opinion in Pattaya the rate for 50-100 bills might be 31.75-80, then I do a final pass by at the Bangkok Bank exchange booth near the food court Big see extra the rate for 50-100 USD is somewhere like 31.38.

So when you compare Cash exchanges vs. ATM withdraw out of Aeon it isn't far off it is the expense I pay for the convenience plus as you noted when I use my Schwab card fees are return end of the month. Now to your question?

When it comes to any of the Thai bank ATM depending on the type of card that is being used some cards like Schwab will not allow the Thai bank to dictate their rates to you. Your request for money will be done at the current International rate so if the rate is at 32.00 at Bank like Bangkok Bank ATM using a Schwab card might give you at best 31.50, I've found many times the ATM rate out of a Thai bank ATM will be pretty close to the rate they are giving you at one of their exchange booth for 50-100 USD bill minus the 220 baht the Thai ATM charges.

Here is how the Thai bank scam you when using their ATM like Bangkok Bank. As I noted I also use Debit cards issue by my Credit Union. Using Aeon ATM this doesn't happen only with Thai ATM's. When I put my card and request amount after it asks me whether I except the 220 charges which I push YES, the next screen will show you an entire breakdown of all the fees you will be paying you will also see the exchange rate they are providing if you accept the transaction. If the international rate is at 32.00 you will note the suggested rate will be something like 30.90 far below the International rate or a ATM like Aeon is providing. This is the scam of the Thai Bank if you are using a card that allows the Thai bank to dictate the rate.

If you are using a card like my Credit union and you get this breakdown on the screen. For a long time since I needed the money and thought I had no choice I push Yes thinking I had to but you can push NO, by doing so you are declining the suggested rate and it automatically reverts to the Internation rate which should give you more like 31.38-31.50 closes to the 32.00? By simple pushing NO, when you go back and do the math the Thai bank basically took an extra 800-900 baht for the transaction by providing you a rate far below.

I hope that helps? Good luck.

[HorseTrader]

I've used my Schwab Debit card at Thai ATMs for the past 4 years or so. I always get the Visa exchange rate (which is a very good rate) and get reimbursed for local bank fees.

Same deal with Fidelity debit card at Thai ATMs. Exchange rate is whatever is posted at that moment on XE.com, which is much better than any place I can exchange US $100 bills for Thai baht.

[Robert Long]

I've always used cash. No issues at all. There could be ATM skimmers which could take you for everything. Using cash help me to keep on budget as well.

I have both a Schwab CC and a Debit card. I wonder how you can choose, on an ATM, the difference between Visa ex rates and the "scam" Bank rates? Can anyone explain that?

[Magaman]

I keep some cash in the room safe knowing the room safe isn't 100% theft proof either.

My last stay in BKK the room safe wasn't event screwed down. That's something to always check now. I also recently bought this nifty little gadget on amazon called addalock which can help prevent your hotel room door from being opened from the outside while you're in the room at least.

[Pointy Stick]

I've used my Schwab Debit card at Thai ATMs for the past 4 years or so. I always get the Visa exchange rate (which is a very good rate) and get reimbursed for local bank fees. I also bring a few traveler checks in case of emergency. Thailand is one of the few places where it is easy to exchange traveler checks at a semi-reasonable rate. I don't think it makes sense to bring a load of cash and convert it to baht during the trip. I would worry about losing the cash. I keep some cash in the room safe knowing the room safe isn't 100% theft proof either. Why risk losing a big chunk of cash? I only withdraw smaller amounts of cash from ATMs.

Robert Long you mentioned a Schwab Credit card. Do they have a credit card that gives a poorer rate? My Schwab card is a debit card.

I've always used cash. No issues at all. There could be ATM skimmers which could take you for everything. Using cash help me to keep on budget as well.

[Allover]

That's correct, Schwab doesn't set the exchange rate at ATMs, they just pay up whatever the machine asks for. The issue you're talking about would affect all foreign cards.

Some Thai ATMs these days have a running scam where they allow you to choose to convert currency at bank's scam rate rather than the proper rate provided by the Visa network. The XR difference could amount to as much as $40 when doing a max 20k baht withdrawal. You can still choose the Visa or MasterCard network rate, but of course, they try to push their scam (by phrasing the question in a misleading way). No idea why they're allowed to do this.

You can search for "visa exchange rate" online to get the real ATM XR you should be getting, and compare it to what you're got. Visa XR is generally decent, today it's 31.54 compared to SuperRich 31.60, $1.20 difference on a 20k baht withdrawal. If you're getting a different rate, you were tricked into using the scam rate by the ATM.

I've used my Schwab Debit card at Thai ATMs for the past 4 years or so. I always get the Visa exchange rate (which is a very good rate) and get reimbursed for local bank fees. I also bring a few traveler checks in case of emergency. Thailand is one of the few places where it is easy to exchange traveler checks at a semi-reasonable rate. I don't think it makes sense to bring a load of cash and convert it to baht during the trip. I would worry about losing the cash. I keep some cash in the room safe knowing the room safe isn't 100% theft proof either. Why risk losing a big chunk of cash? I only withdraw smaller amounts of cash from ATMs.

Robert Long you mentioned a Schwab Credit card. Do they have a credit card that gives a poorer rate? My Schwab card is a debit card.

[Magaman]

That is why I always bring my anticipated spend in cash, use money changers for exchanges, and keep ATM and credit cards as backup. Less footprints is IMO an added benefit.

SL.

I did that last year with a money belt. Triple folded the bills length wise to fit within the one inch belt. The Thai bank no like folded bills at all. If you take cash along, make sure that it is in pristine condition. I definitely wouldn't take any older style $100's, I'd want them all nice and fresh with not even any tiny bent corners.

The trip before that I tried using my Venture One "travel" card at a few banks and had a terrible time. The number on that particular card was "printed" on the back of the card with the first four digits above the next four, above the next four and so on. The Thai bank didn't dig that either. They wanted embossed cards that can go thru carbon paper period. Maybe that's changed by now, but I doubt it?

[Franciscass]

That is the way I have read it on every site dealing with income requirements for a Thai retirement visa in the past unless there is a change to it since January 1 this year. You will also see it repeated a few times in this thread by others. But I can only state what I have read in English since I can not read Thai.

I think a combination of the two has been an option for years.

And, yes, the lump sum deposit portion needs to have been in the Thai bank for some months prior to your visa issue or renewal. Not certain if it is 3 though. You can't deposit it just days before and expect it to count. Although something similar might work this year when they are supposedly willing to give some leeway.

Checked with an agency I use for some legal issues and yes you are correct ET it can be a combination.

The new rules requiring the monthly transfers from abroad to be regular and in the amount of 65000 could be difficult for some retirees but because its a combination they could borrow the difference 2 or 3 months prior to renewal to make the 800 K total and repay the loan after the visa is issued. Then repeat for each subsequent renewal. It seems there is no requirement to show this top up loan came from outside the country just a passbook and a letter from the bank confirming its existence on the day of renewal. Doesn't make sense to me but that's nothing new when it comes to Thai immigration.

[EihTooms]

I may be wrong but as I understand the requirement.

It is either proof of monthly transfers of 65000 or 800000 in your account for 3 months prior to renewal. I was not aware of any situation where some combination of the two was OK. Are you certain of this ET. At the best of times immigration rules can be confusing and quite often vary from office to office.

That is the way I have read it on every site dealing with income requirements for a Thai retirement visa in the past unless there is a change to it since January 1 this year. You will also see it repeated a few times in this thread by others. But I can only state what I have read in English since I can not read Thai.

I think a combination of the two has been an option for years.

And, yes, the lump sum deposit portion needs to have been in the Thai bank for some months prior to your visa issue or renewal. Not certain if it is 3 though. You can't deposit it just days before and expect it to count. Although something similar might work this year when they are supposedly willing to give some leeway.

[Crocodilexp]

I used my Schwab CC to withdraw money one trip to Thailand. I was shocked to see the exchange amount was lower than the money changers. Banks always are lower anyway, but I thought that because it was a Schwab card it would be a higher rate. Agreed I was refunded all bank charges for ATM withdrawals but the rate was not worth it. I called Schwab and asked them about the low exchange rate and their reply was that it depends on the bank, Schwab can't control exchange rates.

That's correct, Schwab doesn't set the exchange rate at ATMs, they just pay up whatever the machine asks for. The issue you're talking about would affect all foreign cards.

Some Thai ATMs these days have a running scam where they allow you to choose to convert currency at bank's scam rate rather than the proper rate provided by the Visa network. The XR difference could amount to as much as $40 when doing a max 20k baht withdrawal. You can still choose the Visa or MasterCard network rate, but of course, they try to push their scam (by phrasing the question in a misleading way). No idea why they're allowed to do this.

You can search for "visa exchange rate" online to get the real ATM XR you should be getting, and compare it to what you're got. Visa XR is generally decent, today it's 31.54 compared to SuperRich 31.60, $1.20 difference on a 20k baht withdrawal. If you're getting a different rate, you were tricked into using the scam rate by the ATM.