General Reports

[Opebo]

...I can't understand 50+ y.o. English teachers without a pot to [CodeWord140] in stuck here making 30,000/mo. at some third rate teaching job, with no thought of what's going to happen when they hit retirement age and can't work anymore. Thailand is full of these types.

Stuck in a job that makes you a virtual prisoner of Thailand because you can't afford to fly home makes you a fool, in my books.

So, I just wonder why you chose to stay here, in a dead-end job with little prospect of any kind for a decent future, and with no way home.

OTH, you imply that being poor is 'a choice'. It is not. People work for 30,000 - or whatever amount - because they must. I wonder if you, conversely, credit the wealthy as 'intelligent' for the fortune of their position in the hierarchy, just as you deride the workers for their misfortune.

I can assure you that going home would lead to even more dire financial conditions - life in America is no picnic.

You also stress that 'people with [x or y] qualification' can get such and so amount of money'. Well, that may be so. But it is a fact that the vast majority of farangs in Thailand work for 30-35K. I have never denied that a very small number make other amounts, but I do feel that it provides dangerous misinformation to suggest to prospective expats that they can expect to be in that top few percent.

[Finrod]

Thanks TT, but in Indonesia and the Phils, they don't even accept US100 bills issued in 1996. So it might be the other way around. But I am not sure.

anyone?

My experience with US$100 bills is in HK, the Phils and Europe, but I should think it applies to LOS too. Anything from before 2000 is highly likely to get turned down. Turns out some of these (like the 1996 series) are allegedly easier to forge. So when you're taking out US$100 bills at your local bank in the US, go over them closely and reject anything from before 2002 to be safe. Then from what's left, reject anything that's worn, marked, torn or otherwise defaced. Hope that helps.

[Old Thai Hand]

Yep - my fault, I thought you were implying that you knew of some sort of network of recruitment agencies or something that finds better paying jobs for decent English teachers.

There are websites that list jobs in Thailand for English teachers that give a full gambit in terms of salaries available. The best is www.ajarn.com. The more general one for worldwide recruitment is Dave's ESL cafe, www.eslcafe.com.

You actually can't get a good English teaching job through an agency unless it's one of the agencies that recruit specifically for international schools here. Most of these agencies are in the UK. It's better to just do it yourself.

I actually do know where most of the best paying teaching jobs are here, even English teaching jobs. But, again at the risk of repeating myself, it's all about qualifications. At my uni English teachers have a terrible base salary of 25,000. But, most actually make well over 100,000 because they are assigned to courses in international programs which pay 2,000/hour tax free beyond their base salary. As well, many are doing consulting work for the Ministry of Education which pays obscene amounts of money for useless projects. These are the connections, "the Network" to which I alluded in one of my earlier posts. One needs to work the system and get connected. You just don't arrive and fall into this. Most of this extra work is tax free. Of my salary, I only pay taxes on less than half. The rest is viewed as tax-free government consulting.


With regards to Opebo; I might have helped him get something better, as he asked me once. But, he's a smart mouth who has pissed me off one too many times. So, as far as I'm concerned let him suffer in his little 2-bit job.

[Blunderer]

Blunderer
There are no magic set of beans, here. I never said that. If you've got the goods, you can make money here. If your qualifications are as common as muck, you can't.

Yep - my fault, I thought you were implying that you knew of some sort of network of recruitment agencies or something that finds better paying jobs for decent English teachers. You never alluded to anything that was especially Thailand, I thought it was implicit that a discussion on a board about Thailand, would allude to something Thai specific, not just generally "in Thailand if you find a better job, you'll get more money", which, as far as I know, is true of everywhere on the planet.

I get the sense there's a bit of frustration or exasperation coming through from conversations the 2 of you may have had before, and, my misreading of that sentiment lead me to believe there were some nuggets of the non obvious variety lurking in the shadows waiting to be coaxed out.

To be honest though, I got such a childish kick out of my Caption Obvious metaphor, I will remember this whole discussion with absolute delight

[Old Thai Hand]

Blunderer

What did you expect?

There are no magic set of beans, here. I never said that. If you've got the goods, you can make money here. If your qualifications are as common as muck, you can't. Unfortunately, Opebo falls into the second category. Yet he moans about making a paltry salary. As the Thais would say...sohm nahm naa.

English teachers worldwide make lousy money because their qualifications are considered of little value, comparatively speaking.

But tack on another degree that is marketable and then you can make money. For instance, I have a friend here who had a BA in English and a TEFL. He used to make only about 40,000 teaching English at a university, until he did an online MA in Education Technology. Now, suddenly he's making well over 100,000/month. He's currently doing an online MBA which will raise his value even more.

Also, common degrees in the US are still of value here. So a Farang with an MBA (especially from a good school like Thunderbird, Wharton, Kellogg, Harvard) can do very well here teaching, but would more likely be teaching at the community college level in the US, if he could get a teaching job at all.

The point is that there are lots of higher paid jobs teaching here for people with qualifications. The only reason that people like Opebo go on about the common salary for Farangs being around 30-35,000 is because the vast majority of Farang here can't make any more because they're not qualified to do so, not because the jobs and the salaries aren't there.

[1Ball]

Thanks TT, but in Indonesia and the Phils, they don't even accept US100 bills issued in 1996. So it might be the other way around. But I am not sure.

anyone?

[Terry Terrier]

sorry for butting in, but I have a newbie question.

Haven't been to LOs for a while, and can't remember if they make a fuss about the year, serial number, cleanliness etc of US hundred dollar bills. So many SE Asia countires do, I just plain forget.

Can anyone enlighten me please?

Don't know about dollars, 1Ball, but my experience of sterling is that older is better. The Bank of England introduced a new £20 note earlier this year, and I had serious problems getting it changed on my holiday in March/April. Even with the old-style notes on previous holidays, the newer ones were sometimes rejected. Thais seem nervous about new foreign currency.

[1Ball]

sorry for butting in, but I have a newbie question.

Haven't been to LOs for a while, and can't remember if they make a fuss about the year, serial number, cleanliness etc of US hundred dollar bills. So many SE Asia countires do, I just plain forget.

Can anyone enlighten me please?

[Blunderer]

Blunderer
But, that's true anywhere. If you've got a Masters in linguistics, or TESOL, for example you can easily get more than 60,000. If you have an MBA and especially a DBA or PhD you can get considerably more and work multiple jobs quite easily.

People with a TEFL, a useless BA or even a useless MA who whine about only making 35,000 don't understand that like anywhere, it's simply market forces. I know someone with only a BA, but in Design Technology, a high demand area who easily gets 65,000 and is in demand for part-time work in a variety of places.

OK, now I understand... you started by saying Opebo is a chump for working for 35k.

The big magic secret you had is that if you get a PhD or get into a specialised higher paying industry, you can make more money than in an industry with a relatively low educational barrier to entry.

You are of course quite right. Opebo you fat tossing loser, your priorities are massively screwed up... I don't understand why you haven't thought of this yourself. If you went somewhere and got trained as an astronaut you could make a fucking fortune on the Thai lecture circuit.

Sorry OTH, I am probably being a bit unnecessarily abrasive, but I actually thought this conversation could possibly end with some of us finding out something we didn't know before, only to turn a corner and walk under a tree and find that Captain Bleeding Obvious is sitting above me with a laser guided anvil aiming mechanism.

[Old Thai Hand]

Blunderer

Actually I don't teach English.

Having a highly marketable specialty outside of English is the key. I've taught over 40 courses across a range of disciplines. I have almost 30 years experience in teaching concurrent with about 20 years in the private sector. You need qualifications, and the right qualifications beyond a BA and a TEFL or you're not going to get much.

But, having said that, I still think that you can work your way up even in English teaching and make connections and therefore the salary I'm talking about. But, you don't just get off the plane and get such a job unless you have good qualifications. But, that's true anywhere. If you've got a Masters in linguistics, or TESOL, for example you can easily get more than 60,000. If you have an MBA and especially a DBA or PhD you can get considerably more and work multiple jobs quite easily.

People with a TEFL, a useless BA or even a useless MA who whine about only making 35,000 don't understand that like anywhere, it's simply market forces. I know someone with only a BA, but in Design Technology, a high demand area who easily gets 65,000 and is in demand for part-time work in a variety of places.

Many unversities have international programs with a wide variety of disciplines all looking for foreign expertise. But, like anywhere, an MA in psychology or sociology or comparative literature, for example isn't exactly what they're looking for. But, if you've got a decent business degree, a degree in technology, or a design area you can easily get a good job here.

[Blunderer]

Opebo

While this may not be of concern to you, (I don't know your age), I can't understand 50+ y.o. English teachers without a pot to [CodeWord140] in stuck here making 30,000/mo. at some third rate teaching job, with no thought of what's going to happen when they hit retirement age and can't work anymore. Thailand is full of these types.

Stuck in a job that makes you a virtual prisoner of Thailand because you can't afford to fly home makes you a fool, in my books.

I can tell you that, unless you've got savings when you aren't employable anymore, you'll be tossed out on your ass as the Thais won't let you stay here even if you have put in years and years of trying to teaching their little rug-rats how to speak English.

Using Thais as a comparison as you did is misleading. Firstly, Thais obviously can stay here and can live on a lot less than we do (They can buy a house with little down payment and can get 30 year mortgages, for example). They have a social safety net of sorts (their families and a somewhat inadequate social security/old age pension scheme). In stark contrast, most Farang are left to their own resources and therefore need to make more money and plan for the future. In my case, I'm fortunate that I'm in a job that pays relatively well, and has a very healthy co-op pension fund that actually pays dividends every year. I also am about to become a civil servant which means I won't be subject to the usual crap faced by most Farang. If I'm still here in 10 years, I'll be able to retire on a lousy Thai government pension, but thankfully with a reasonable uni pension. As a former government employee, I won't have to have whatever the current required bank account is for Farang retirees. Understandably, in this regard I am fortunate, as this is extremely rare for Farang.

So, I just wonder why you chose to stay here, in a dead-end job with little prospect of any kind for a decent future, and with no way home.

OTH,

I most certainly agree with you with respect to the Thai's being able to stretch less a lot further - you omitted the oft mentioned dual tier pricing which is another point in favour of that argument.

I've met several bar girls with my english speaking teacher friends who are utterly amazed by what they pay for rent etc..... (this doesn't apply so much to BKK I admit). Farangs have a particularly hard time negotiating a good deal... non Thai speaking farangs, even more so.

On the other hand, I do think you are laying it on a bit thick with respect to the salary thing. I am delighted for you that you draw a nice salary and have found the life you want, and, I have indeed heard of English teaching jobs that pay what you suggest.

Now, my Thailand circle of farang friends is mostly English teachers. About 2/3rds of them are university educated. About 2/3rds of them have TEFL qualifications. As far as I know, one of them has made it to 50k a month (salary only), and probably makes about the same in private lessons (are you including private lessons in the numbers you mention?).

I know of noone (not one person!) who is making more out of teaching English than that, and, she has worked her way up to that over the last 6 or 7 years.

Are you really saying that just about every farang (in my little sphere of experience, and, while I don't wish to speak for him, it sounds like Opebo's as well) has underestimated their financial worth to Thai schools by 100% or more?

If you can point me in the direction of some companies who offer high paying jobs which are fairly easy to get to foreigners, I'd be delighted (PM me if you like). Do note that if the jobs are not easy to get, then, you are talking about something entirely different. Every country in the world has very high paying jobs in every industry - they are just v difficult to come by.

I know one girl who has just done her TEFL and has been doing a little private tutoring in Europe who would be positively moist at the prospect of 60k+ monthly!!!

[Old Thai Hand]

Opebo

While this may not be of concern to you, (I don't know your age), I can't understand 50+ y.o. English teachers without a pot to [CodeWord140] in stuck here making 30,000/mo. at some third rate teaching job, with no thought of what's going to happen when they hit retirement age and can't work anymore. Thailand is full of these types.

Stuck in a job that makes you a virtual prisoner of Thailand because you can't afford to fly home makes you a fool, in my books.

I can tell you that, unless you've got savings when you aren't employable anymore, you'll be tossed out on your ass as the Thais won't let you stay here even if you have put in years and years of trying to teaching their little rug-rats how to speak English.

Using Thais as a comparison as you did is misleading. Firstly, Thais obviously can stay here and can live on a lot less than we do (They can buy a house with little down payment and can get 30 year mortgages, for example). They have a social safety net of sorts (their families and a somewhat inadequate social security/old age pension scheme). In stark contrast, most Farang are left to their own resources and therefore need to make more money and plan for the future. In my case, I'm fortunate that I'm in a job that pays relatively well, and has a very healthy co-op pension fund that actually pays dividends every year. I also am about to become a civil servant which means I won't be subject to the usual crap faced by most Farang. If I'm still here in 10 years, I'll be able to retire on a lousy Thai government pension, but thankfully with a reasonable uni pension. As a former government employee, I won't have to have whatever the current required bank account is for Farang retirees. Understandably, in this regard I am fortunate, as this is extremely rare for Farang.

So, I just wonder why you chose to stay here, in a dead-end job with little prospect of any kind for a decent future, and with no way home.

[Opebo]

Opebo. You're a chump if you're working for 35K. I don't know what you're doing for so little, but there are lots of jobs that pay more. Personally, I don't know any Farang making less than 60,000/mo minimum and even that's low.

Brother, it does seem a bit harsh to call someone a 'chump' for working for the salary which is by far the most common one. Virtually all Thai public schools as well as most private English schools, and 'English centers' at universities pay 30,000-35,000 baht. I know you like to refer to those that pay more, OTH, but please try to understand that these are a small minority of employers of foreigners in Thailand.

Anyone considering teaching in Thailand should understand that the salaries that OTH mentioned, while they certainly are not fiction, are extremely rare. Don't count on it. Think about it - every Thai I meet considers my salary 'big money', and these are all middle class people making 16-25K, making payments on houses and new cars. Why would they pay more than they have to?

Keep in mind also that for most of us this is not that much less than we could make at home. I like so many am essentially unemployable in the US, as it is far more difficult to get a job there, so $1,100 or a bit more is great money for me, particularly in a country where rent is around $100. It sure beats making $8/hour in a land where rent is 500-600.

[FritsVanegter]

Hello,

Sometimes I wonder what will happen if the KING will die when I am having my annual holiday in Thailand. It is likely that HE will die pretty soon. Probably it will paralyze the nation for a long time. I know the future KING is not loved by a lot of Thai but he will become KING anyway. I really hope that the present KING is able to come up with a good solution but I am afraid chaos will be there. Just wondering what all the experts are thinking.

Best regards,

Frits

[NicFrenchy]

I'm a university professor, teach about 20 hours per week (including overloads) and make roughly 135,000+/month.

OTH,

135k/month (I assume it's after all taxes) for 20 hours workweek is not bad at all.

I have a very comfortable salary, the only downside for me is the Travelling and the sometimes never ending work hours.

I don't know how one can live (let alone Monger) on a 35k salary! My rent and utilities are almost double that (fortunately, the company pays the bills)