General Reports

[Duniawala]

searches OK'd
By Declan McCullagh, CNET News.com
Published on ZDNet News: July 26, 2006, 5:06 PM PT
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"Police blotter" is a weekly CNET News.com report on the intersection of technology and the law.
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What: A business traveler protests the warrantless search and seizure of his laptop by Homeland Security at the U.S.-Canada border.
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When: 9th Circuit Court of Appeals rules on July 24.
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Outcome: Three-judge panel unanimously says that border police may conduct random searches of laptops without search warrants or probable cause. These searches can include seizing the laptop and subjecting it to extensive forensic analysis.
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What happened, according to court documents:

In January 2004, Stuart Romm traveled to Las Vegas to attend a training seminar for his new employer. Then, on Feb. 1, Romm continued the business trip by boarding a flight to Kelowna, British Columbia.

Romm was denied entry by the Canadian authorities because of his criminal history. When he returned to the Seattle-Tacoma airport, he was interviewed by two agents of Homeland Security's Immigration and Customs Enforcement division.

They asked to search his laptop, and Romm agreed. Agent Camille Sugrue would later testify that she used the "EnCase" software to do a forensic analysis of Romm's hard drive.

That analysis and a subsequent one found some 42 child pornography images, which had been present in the cache used by Romm's Web browser and then deleted. But because in most operating systems, only the directory entry is removed when a file is "deleted," the forensic analysis was able to recover the actual files.

During the trial, Romm's attorney asked that the evidence from the border search be suppressed. The trial judge disagreed. Romm was eventually sentenced to two concurrent terms of 10 and 15 years for knowingly receiving and knowingly possessing child pornography.

The 9th Circuit refused to overturn his conviction, ruling that American citizens effectively enjoy no right to privacy when stopped at the border.

"We hold first that the ICE's forensic analysis of Romm's laptop was permissible without probable cause or a warrant under the border search doctrine," wrote Judge Carlos Bea. Joining him in the decision were Judges David Thompson and Betty Fletcher.

Bea cited the 1985 case of U.S. v. Montoya de Hernandez, in which a woman arriving in Los Angeles from Columbia was detained. Police believed she had swallowed balloons filled with cocaine, even though the court said they had no "clear indication" of it and did not have probable cause to search her.

Nevertheless, the Supreme Court said police could rectally examine De Hernandez because it was a border crossing and, essentially, anything goes. (The rectal examination, by the way, did find 88 balloons filled with cocaine that had been smuggled in her alimentary canal.)

Justices William Brennan and Thurgood Marshall dissented. They said the situation De Hernandez experienced had "the hallmark of a police state."

"To be sure, the court today invokes precedent stating that neither probable cause nor a warrant ever have been required for border searches," Brennan wrote. "If this is the law as a general matter, I believe it is time that we re-examine its foundations."

But Brennan and Marshall were outvoted by their fellow justices, who ruled that the drug war trumped privacy, citing a "veritable national crisis in law enforcement caused by smuggling of illicit narcotics." Today their decision means that laptop-toting travelers should expect no privacy either.

As an aside, a report last year from a U.S.-based marijuana activist says U.S. border guards looked through her digital camera snapshots and likely browsed through her laptop's contents. A London-based correspondent for The Economist magazine once reported similar firsthand experiences, and a 1998 article in The New York Times described how British customs scan laptops for sexual material. Here are some tips on using encryption to protect your privacy.

Encryption Tips
http://www.politechbot.com/2005/05/1...-privacy-tips/

[ThaiLearner]

An option to deal with newbie (or senior members) RTFF questions is to send them to a specific post that has the answers to most of the questions they might need. That is why I wrote the 5 nights itinerary (http://www.internationalsexguide.inf...&postcount=328). I strongly suggest that somebody work on a document that answers most of the RTFF questions even better than the itinerary, and when somebody finally asks what we feel is a silly question that has been asked over and over again, we can refer them to that post. Unfortunately, we are going to come across members who are lazy, who are not computer savvy (don't know how to search, or even PM), who don't care to read rules, or whatever. I feel that it is wrong to ignore them because then they will feel excluded and they won't know why. You never know, perhaps one of these members might become a very productive poster in our group. I know when I started here, I didn't know squat. The thing that helped me was that I was so psyched about my first trip that I kept reading report after report, and that kept me from posting a newbie RTFF post. I am sure it would only take a couple of hours to research the document I propose, and another 1/2 hour to type it up. If anybody is interested in working on this, PM me and we can write it up. The more veterans that pitch in on this, the better and faster the document will be written up. Then we can point the RTFF posters to the document. Let me know what you all think about my idea.

I think you have a good idea, I am aware of other forums where the put in sections so say Pattaya then subsections Girl Friendly Hotels, Restuarants etc and then people can add stuff from the year they visit. You don't want to read soemthing that could be 2 years out of date which is no use at all.

[Traveler1234]

Phuquer

In theory, what you suggest is a great idea. If one tries to go through the multiple threads, it would take forever. And someone in the Shanghai thread (david zzzz) actually did that, but just for Shanghai (and they still get numerous lazy queries).

However, as I tried to politely point out to Member # 3200 in my pm (again not singling him out per se), a hour or two reading the above two threads would be helpful.

I actually quickly went through the FAQ and RoD recently. The FAQ is 'old' but still provides a real roadmap to a newbie or senior re almost everything you need to know in terms of security, money, hotels, transport, where to go, etc. etc. It is one of the most comprehensive ones done on ISG. Some enterprising monger could update it if they had a few hours to spare......

And the RoD now totals 4 pages - and many of them are clearly marked by topic. for instance, there is your infamous 5 nights, the first RoD on the site that is great reading. There are specific ones written about MP, different parts of Thailand, buying land, how not to get burned, etc. etc. The list goes on. Since there are so many 'options' in LOS, a newbie could choose whatever turns him on.

Maybe a more practical suggetion is that for those who wish to reply to a newbie post - provide them with direct link to FAQ and a couple of representative RoD to start them off.

IMHO


PS: As a start, here's a summary for newbies of all types to start with:


Thailand FAQ: start here for basics
http://www.internationalsexguide.inf...ment.php?f=253

Mike’s advice for Bkk newbie
http://internationalsexguide.info/fo...7&postcount=20

Tiger’s take on the infamous Biergarten (Beergarden) soi7:
http://www.internationalsexguide.inf...397#post477397

The venerable Giotto’s Lodge, aka Livingstones:
http://www.internationalsexguide.inf...postcount=1235

And last for those less fortunate, how to negotiate:
http://www.internationalsexguide.inf...&postcount=892


If you find this useful, the tag/link to this post is
http://www.internationalsexguide.inf...&postcount=516


Save it for future reference or just ignore my ramblings....

[Phuquer]

An option to deal with newbie (or senior members) RTFF questions is to send them to a specific post that has the answers to most of the questions they might need. That is why I wrote the 5 nights itinerary (http://www.internationalsexguide.inf...&postcount=328). I strongly suggest that somebody work on a document that answers most of the RTFF questions even better than the itinerary, and when somebody finally asks what we feel is a silly question that has been asked over and over again, we can refer them to that post. Unfortunately, we are going to come across members who are lazy, who are not computer savvy (don't know how to search, or even PM), who don't care to read rules, or whatever. I feel that it is wrong to ignore them because then they will feel excluded and they won't know why. You never know, perhaps one of these members might become a very productive poster in our group. I know when I started here, I didn't know squat. The thing that helped me was that I was so psyched about my first trip that I kept reading report after report, and that kept me from posting a newbie RTFF post. I am sure it would only take a couple of hours to research the document I propose, and another 1/2 hour to type it up. If anybody is interested in working on this, PM me and we can write it up. The more veterans that pitch in on this, the better and faster the document will be written up. Then we can point the RTFF posters to the document. Let me know what you all think about my idea.

[Jimbehr2000]

Don't answer. Disregard the post. I know sometimes you want to say rtff but today's newbie may be a valuable contributor down the road. Even if he asks a stupid question now. I don't mind reading hotel or massage questions that have been asked before. I appeciate getting updated info.

Let's not be too rough on new visitors. Just my .02.

[Brain Damaged]

1Ball, The Traveler, Meaty, Duni and everyone else, including Member # 3200!

I'm as guilty as the next guy and sincerely apologize to all for wasting good bandwidth and space on this thread. It won't happen again here or elsewhere from me.

I noticed the level of flames/tension rising lately...maybe cuz it's summer months and most of us are stuck at home and not getting enough.

See what we ALL started...LOL.

So from now on when a silly and/or lazy query is posted:

1. if newbie, ignore it for others (i hope everyone else also just ignores it)
2. if from a senior member, put the lazy bxxxxx on my ignore list

Cheers

Well...for the benefit of the old(er) mongerers (e.g., Asian Gambler, Asian Rain, Old China Hand, Raz., etc.), I would most gladly offer suggestions (probably via PM) if the guy said:
1. Help! I've got a 24 hour layover in [pick a really good mongering city] and my plane
leaves in two hours.
2. What are the places to go to in that 24 hour period?
I thinkt that I would suggest a hotel and places to which the guy should go. These guys have been around, know the cost of different types of hotels and have an idea of how much they want to spend. They are asking simply to be pointed in the right direction.

I've done it myself, and have appreciated the feedback from fellow mongerers.

Then again, I've had to shave my tongue and use a bottle of Clear Eyes after such experiences!

Cheers,
BD

[Traveler1234]

1Ball, The Traveler, Meaty, Duni and everyone else, including Member # 3200!

I'm as guilty as the next guy and sincerely apologize to all for wasting good bandwidth and space on this thread. It won't happen again here or elsewhere from me.

I noticed the level of flames/tension rising lately...maybe cuz it's summer months and most of us are stuck at home and not getting enough.

See what we ALL started...LOL.

So from now on when a silly and/or lazy query is posted:

1. if newbie, ignore it for others (i hope everyone else also just ignores it)
2. if from a senior member, put the lazy bxxxxx on my ignore list

Cheers

[Duniawala]

Duni,

with all due respect, but I wonder what that RTFF advice is good for.
Nobody forces you or anybody else to reply to him. He politely asked for some advice via PM and I can't see anything wrong with it.

Also keep in mind that infos do change over the time.

Traveler
He may have asked politely, but that is the minimum one should do, ask politely. However, if he had RTFFed he would have some idea of wht to do and where to stay, and what kind of budget he should make. Now, if he has more questions, he should post those specific ones and we all would be glad to help a fellow mongerer out.

I also come from North America and when I went on my first trip, I RTFFed the long way (did not know how to use the search function), by reading the reports, and then asked my questions. In the old days when this was paranoia.com one really had to do research.

So my conclusion as others have come to see it, he is one lazy b*****d, with an gimme, gimme attitude who does not deserve any help.

[Brain Damaged]

This is not directed per se to Member # 3200 but to any newbie or senior member. I pm rather than posted a reply, per his request. It is quoted below along with his reply:

--Traveler's stuff deleted--

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
His reply
i wanna do all,but there is more 2 planning a trip than pussy-how much cash 2 bring along/what travller's cheques/malaria shots?/travelling within certain countries/personal security & other issues including accomodations--its a wide arrange of questions i am asking & looking 4 help--thats why i am doing it now-3 months b4 i book
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think the FAQ answers most of his questions. So I leave it to each individual to draw his own conclusion re how we should reply to similar future 'queries'?

Two ideas popped into my head when I read the query: 1) the use of chat room style typing and 2) the nature of the query. Let me discuss my 2nd thought first. Regarding travel to Thailand, there are numerous travel sites that offer comments/suggestions about health, personal security, transportation, money, traveller's checks, cash etc. These range from Fodor's to Lonely Planet to the infrequent comment in Stickman. Thus, I would suggest that the noob either read the web or go to a knowledgable travel agent in his (I assume that the noob is a he) neighborhood. That thought was reinforced by the chatroom style of typing; my impression--based on albeit very limited data--is that the noob is lazy and wants people to give him a bunch of advice that he just doesn't want to look up on his own; he has admitted having three months to search for information.

Well. I suppose that I could suggest that he take only cash, pay THB8,000 LT at Thermae or Grace, get a room from Giotto for THB4,000/night, and try some of that
keng rot action that the girls are up on.

BTW--I'll be arriving LOS Tuesday for a week, staying over on Suk Soi 20. If anyone is up for a beer, PM me. I'll also stop by Giotto's to check out the rooms!

[Traveler1234]

This is not directed per se to Member # 3200 but to any newbie or senior member. I pm rather than posted a reply, per his request. It is quoted below along with his reply:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My PM
Re: Newbie

Originally Posted by Traveler1234
Welcome to LOS threads.

You may or may not get pm from others. From me, a polite RTFf. This site has probably the most information (except for possibly China but that's because China has more places).

Start with FAQ - it has all the essentials and is one of the few countries that has a good FAQ.

Then read a couple of the reports of distinction....by then you'll be an expert before even visiting.

Reason for this advice is because you don't tell us what you're into? There are MP, go go bars, FL, escort services, and literally tons of 'opportunities' for pussy. Probably the only place as concentrated in one area and easy in Asia is Indonesia, eg.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
His reply
i wanna do all,but there is more 2 planning a trip than pussy-how much cash 2 bring along/what travller's cheques/malaria shots?/travelling within certain countries/personal security & other issues including accomodations--its a wide arrange of questions i am asking & looking 4 help--thats why i am doing it now-3 months b4 i book
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think the FAQ answers most of his questions. So I leave it to each individual to draw his own conclusion re how we should reply to similar future 'queries'?

[1Ball]

I totally agree, as you well know, RTFF these days means going through pages and pages of individual member flames/arguments/disagreements just to find a single post of actual info. Hardly time well spent.

Flames? Arguments? Disagreements? Where? when? how? by whom?

[SidTheSexist]

Theres always reports of distinction & FAQ

[Meaty]

...with all due respect, but I wonder what that RTFF advice is good for....

I totally agree, as you well know, RTFF these days means going through pages and pages of individual member flames/arguments/disagreements just to find a single post of actual info. Hardly time well spent.

[The Traveler]

Member #3200,

Traveler1234 gave you some good advice via PM how to start from scratch.

If you have any specific questions feel free to ask, you will get answers.
But don't expect us to write a complete "Thailand for Newbies" guide in response to a question like "what to do in LOS ?".
You must do your part of the trade.

I also kindly ask you to stick to Jackson's Posting Guidelines, chat style is not allowed (reads quite ugly), being a senior you should know.


Thank you

[Member #3200]

for someone from north america who might have 1 chance in his life 2 afford to experience a trip to the other side of the world,i miss 1 day online & i might miss 3 pages of info on bangkok,there's more 2 travelling for us here if going 2 thailand that it might be 2 the more experienced/wealthier & who live closer than some of us, it is not because i am lazy,there is just more involved when planning such a trip.
compared to doing homework on such places as cuba,dominican republic & or costa rica compared to thailand,thailand is a novel to read while those places are as simple as a poem 2 read.
if most of you this i should just RTFF then fine i will do so,i asked nicely & i see what the responses were & the kind of society we live in nowadays.