Pattaya Reports

[Wolvenvacht]

I think your comment hints on one of the biggest problems with prostitution in Thailand and many parts of SE Asia. My first time, and I suspect many of you are the same, I compared the price I was quoted to what I would pay in America. When the woman told me 3000 baht I quickly asked myself what I would get in America for 100 USD. What she was offering was far more than I would get for 3000 baht back home. However, that is the wrong way to think about things as the cost of goods and services in a local environment should be priced according to local factors and not how much something costs in another country.

When an Indian person is faced with a chick who wants 2000 baht ST they may, unlike westerners, try to figure out what 2000 baht is in relation to what most Thais make. Once they figure out that some Thais don't make that in a week they may be inclined to get the price down to 500, which based on what most Thais spend / make in a week can still be considered good money for 1 hour of work. This does not make them cheap so much as pragmatic.

It amazes me that some men come to SE Asia (at one point I was such a man) and pay women more for one nights work than most people in the country make in two weeks. Unfortunately because many men technically overpay women label some men who want to pay a more reasonable price as cheap charlies, especially in places like Pattaya and BKK that are full of 1 week millionaires.

OK, Let's look at this a bit more scientifically.

Yesterday I went to a Thai massage shop in Belgium, somewhere near Antwerpen. I booked a massage for two hours and that includes two pops (if you are up to it) of BBBJ and / or HJ, but not FS. Price was 180 EUR, or about 7200 baht. Two hours of fun in the local red light district will set you back 300 EUR or 12000 baht and that includes CFS. The RLD quality is really the bottom of the market for FS (which is the reason I rather go to a massage shop).

The average minimum daily wages in Belgium are about 75 EUR per day (1500 EUR per month) or about 3000 baht. So a SW in Belgium can expect between 250% (no FS) and 400% (including FS) of the minimum daily wages per 2 hour session.

In Thailand, the minimum average daily wages (depending on the area) is about 300 baht. If we apply the same "percentage", a two hours session, should cost between 750 baht (no FS) and 1200 baht (including FS). That is indeed somewhat below the 2000 baht we regularly pay to our honeys in the LOS. But taking into account that she will have to pay a share of that to her employer (the same will apply in Belgium) , the simple fact that as a foreigner you always pay a "tourist" surcharge and that we tend to visit more "up market" places than the simple bottom of the market RLD shops most Thai men will go to, the prices we pay in Thailand are not at all that much exaggerated. Actually I have had agogo girls do LT with me for less than 2000 baht, although 3000 to 3500 baht seems more the norm for LT. But then you get her for the whole night and at least 3 pops.

And don't forget we get to make love to beautiful Asian women who take good care of us. I have no problems at all in paying a bit more for such quality!

[Sauro07]

Was in Pattaya over the weekend and visited two places.

Honey massage, the well known soapy on Soy Honey. Chose a cute nbr 74 named Tac, very kind and nice. Routine as usual, but what an awesomw body she had! Was doing her sideways, and couldn't resist that beautiful perfect shape. I asked her how much time I had while we were mish, and she said don't worry take your time. Wow! Very kind and doing all the moves and sounds at the right time. I was in love. 1800 baht.

Dream teen, went for the Romantic Room, no choosing, comes lady called Com, or the like. Half ass masage, then ask what I want. I say everything, the quote goes to 2000, we talk a bit and settle at 1200 (+500 for the room and massage). Very energetic, a litle too much on the acting, but quite fun.

[Simon36]

I think your comment hints on one of the biggest problems with prostitution in Thailand and many parts of SE Asia. My first time, and I suspect many of you are the same, I compared the price I was quoted to what I would pay in America. When the woman told me 3000 baht I quickly asked myself what I would get in America for 100 USD. What she was offering was far more than I would get for 3000 baht back home. However, that is the wrong way to think about things as the cost of goods and services in a local environment should be priced according to local factors and not how much something costs in another country.

When an Indian person is faced with a chick who wants 2000 baht ST they may, unlike westerners, try to figure out what 2000 baht is in relation to what most Thais make. Once they figure out that some Thais don't make that in a week they may be inclined to get the price down to 500, which based on what most Thais spend / make in a week can still be considered good money for 1 hour of work. This does not make them cheap so much as pragmatic.

It amazes me that some men come to SE Asia (at one point I was such a man) and pay women more for one nights work than most people in the country make in two weeks. Unfortunately because many men technically overpay women label some men who want to pay a more reasonable price as cheap charlies, especially in places like Pattaya and BKK that are full of 1 week millionaires.

Exactly, guys need to forget what they pay back at home, they are not at home. You can eat a meal for 40 baht and many of the hotel staff work for 20 baht an hour. When you are asked for 3000 baht, smile and walk away.

[Amjeck]

It amazes me that some men come to SE Asia (at one point I was such a man) and pay women more for one nights work than most people in the country make in two weeks.

Yes, but these guys only exist in the tourist sectors, thus you have inflated tourist prices. Get out of these areas and prices are way more realistic on a local level. No thai man would ever pay 2k ST for anything for sale in Pattaya. If thai guys would pay that, then the girls would sell it to the thais. The girls sell it to ignorant tourists because they are the only ones who are willing enough to pay those inflated prices.

[Joe Looking]

1000b is good money in Thailand and so is in India too, hence the need to spend much less, based on a daily budget, linked to the need of doing many.

I think your comment hints on one of the biggest problems with prostitution in Thailand and many parts of SE Asia. My first time, and I suspect many of you are the same, I compared the price I was quoted to what I would pay in America. When the woman told me 3000 baht I quickly asked myself what I would get in America for 100 USD. What she was offering was far more than I would get for 3000 baht back home. However, that is the wrong way to think about things as the cost of goods and services in a local environment should be priced according to local factors and not how much something costs in another country.

When an Indian person is faced with a chick who wants 2000 baht ST they may, unlike westerners, try to figure out what 2000 baht is in relation to what most Thais make. Once they figure out that some Thais don't make that in a week they may be inclined to get the price down to 500, which based on what most Thais spend / make in a week can still be considered good money for 1 hour of work. This does not make them cheap so much as pragmatic.

It amazes me that some men come to SE Asia (at one point I was such a man) and pay women more for one nights work than most people in the country make in two weeks. Unfortunately because many men technically overpay women label some men who want to pay a more reasonable price as cheap charlies, especially in places like Pattaya and BKK that are full of 1 week millionaires.

[Keeniu]

Some are selling "all duties paid", ie delivered to your door with import duties pre-paid, and someare selling "free customs depot", ie import duties not paid. Thre is no way a commercial shipment escapes the customs when borders are crossed, unless it is a sample of small value.

Does anyone think that governments are letting tons of goods into their countries free of any duty? Dreamers!

Well Australia does, to the Tune of $970 duty and GST / VAT free!

This is because it would cost them MORE to collect. Based an a massive sell off of prime real estate that made no sense, plus high labor costs, and in any case the average value sis $200 or less. This has been measured and proven, much to the dislike of local retailers who refuse to play hardball on rent issues.

I play safe. Use the toothbrush. Or have packaging thrown away, used to wash towels / sheets or suits washed, so nothing was new. My best party trick is tipping duty free into softdrink containers. Sometimes with a poison sticker. Then declaring it. Naturally the customs guys can't resell it, and send me on my way. (I keep it DF). I sew name tags onto custom made suits and shirts.

Bottom Line: I am not cheating: only putting forward used goods that can't be resold easily without detection. Just engrave that IPhone with your name and see their dirty looks!

[Dena0]

This take on Top Gun is hilarious! Maverick and Iceman will never seem the same again to me now.

Did you ever see the movie Sleep with Me? In the party scene, the Quentin Tarantino character gives his hilarious spin on Top Gun. Here is the complete Tarantino monologe from Sleep with Me:

Tarantino: "What is Top Gun? You think it's a story about a bunch of fighter pilots. It is a story about a man's struggle with his own homosexuality. It is! That is what Top Gun is about, man. You've got Maverick, all right? He's on the edge, man. He's right on the fucking line, all right? And you've got Iceman, and all his crew. They're gay, they represent the gay man, all right? And they're saying, go, go the gay way, go the gay way. He could go both ways.

Kelly McGillis, she's heterosexuality. She's saying: No, no, no, no, no, no, go the normal way, play by the rules, go the normal way. They're saying no, go the gay way, be the gay way, go for the gay way, all right? That is what's going on throughout that whole movie. He goes to her house, all right? It looks like they're going to have sex, you know, they're just kind of sitting back, he's takin' a shower and everything. They don't have sex. He gets on the motorcycle, drives away. She's like,"What the fuck, what the fuck is going on here?"

Next scene, next scene you see her, she's in the elevator, she is dressed like a guy. She's got the cap on, she's got the aviator glasses, she's wearing the same jacket that the Iceman wears. She is, okay, this is how I got to get this guy, this guy's going towards the gay way, I got to bring him back, I got to bring him back from the gay way, so I'll do that through subterfuge, I'm going to dress like a man. All right? That is how she approaches it.

All right, but the REAL ending of the movie is when they fight the MIGs at the end, all right? Because he has passed over into the gay way. They are this gay fighting fucking force, all right? And they're beating the Russians, the gays are beating the Russians. And it's over, and they fucking land, and Iceman's been trying to get Maverick the entire time, and finally, he's got him, all right? And what is the last fucking line that they have together? They're all hugging and kissing and happy with each other, and Ice comes up to Maverick, and he says,"Man, you can ride my tail, anytime!" And what does Maverick say?"You can ride mine!" Swordfight! Swordfight! Fuckin' A, man!"

Funny Stuff!

I have gone on mongering trips with friends and solo. Both ways have their virtues, but I prefer going solo. The girls are all the company I really need or want. No discusion over where to go or when to go. You do what you want when you want to do it. Now if I were going on a scuba dive trip or a trek in the Himalayas, that is another story and a couple of good friends along for the adventure are essential.

[Daddy07]

Did you order it directly from amazon?

Yes, I did.

I think if you had someone repack it in another box and had it look like it was used, it would have went right through. I ordered some shirts from online but had a relative send me the shirts via us postal service and had no problems!

That's possible and a good idea but it's still going to be hit or miss. I'd like to do it that way for a new computer but I have my doubts that it would work.

[Tony Hoeprano]

You were lucky.

I ordered a Sonic Care electric toothbrush from Amazon. Com that was priced less than $100. It was intercepted at the post office and I had to go fetch it in person. By the time the goons were finished with me the damn toothbrush cost me $150 USD.

I've also had care packages that my daughter sends me from time to time intercepted and I'm forced to pay duties on even less expensive items.

The extra cost one pays at Tuk. Com for a product made in America probably reflects the cutsom duties which must be paid here on imported goods.

It sucks!

Did you order it directly from amazon? I think if you had someone repack it in another box and had it look like it was used, it would have went right through. I ordered some shirts from online but had a relative send me the shirts via us postal service and had no problems!

[BionicMan]

One thing for sure which the world would have to get used to is seeing more Indians everywhere. India and China are emerging powers. The disposable income in these countries is on the rise and the outbound tourism from them is also going to increase steadily! (__)

Considering the above I suggest that whosoever has complains now adapt to the situation because in the coming days ahead you would see a lot more than you have already seen and might be even worse because old habits die hard in every culture!

Fully agreeing on this summary. I have also seen a growing presence of brazilians here and there (I mean in general, not specifically Thailand) , Another BRIC country that, thanks also to the middle east air carriers can easily come to Asia, without the hassles they ahd in the past to go via Europe.

[Horny Landoora]

Indians are also the closest non Asian visitors so they come in numbers and also stand out more.

One thing for sure which the world would have to get used to is seeing more Indians everywhere. India and China are emerging powers. The disposable income in these countries is on the rise and the outbound tourism from them is also going to increase steadily! This results in cheap air ticket offers for people and considering from price point a holiday in Thailand is cheaper than someplaces itself in India people throng to Thailand for their short term holidays! Apart from that the exchange conversion is also in their favour as a baht is cheaper than Dollar or Euro!

Generally budgeting is good and even Bargaining is also a way to have maximum return on an investment. Although Indians go overboard. Other issue is that even after bargaining they might refuse to deal which hence results in a mindset among people generally of their miserly nature and time wasting attitude! Then there are some other tactics they play once they finalize a deal to re negotiate the terms or somehow get a discount. This is a problem inherent in the culture I guess from the household ladies who buy daily groceries to the top shot entrepreneurs who conduct business.

I have read much about the "smelly" INDIANS on this forum although frankly speaking I personally find that people from PRC have a distinct smell to them and their food habits! But there are going to be all types of people from everywhere! Just same as how you would find stinking hippies in India who are still stuck in 70's and move around in questionable attire with strange habits! I am an Indian myself but I won't probably fit the category many describe on the forum. I stay at prime Hotels, eat at good places, use the best colognes, choose generally overpriced girls without negotiation and have a different attitude than described in some cases. Once in Thailand many girls say am not an Indian and they have similar tales to tell!

Considering the above I suggest that whosoever has complains now adapt to the situation because in the coming days ahead you would see a lot more than you have already seen and might be even worse because old habits die hard in every culture!

[BionicMan]

I think every nation has its own cheap charlies. The size of the traveling population makes some citizenships standing out more than others. For sake of argument if Malta would have 50% of its travelers being "cc" they might get around unnoticed. If India has 0. 50% it will be visible and if PRC had 0, 01% God bless the visited country! A mongering destination, such as Thailand, being low priced also at mid-high levels, attracts more mongerers looking for The garden of eden. Coming from a country were the purchase power is low, they want to maximize their "investment". So more for less, to come back and tell the friends "how many", not "what quality". India has a large population, hence the high numbers. In their contry the stunners are unreachable, hence the low quality expectations paired to the price factor. 1000b is good money in Thailand and so is in India too, hence the need to spend much less, based on a daily budget, linked to the need of doing many. If I allot 5000b a day, I can chose to have 4 or 5 times a FL at nana park, or 1 time a memorable one, my choice, but still 5000b is for the daily fun. They probably allot 1/2000b and want at least 4-5, so they move to the 4/500b girls, with all what this means. Indians are also the closest non Asian visitors so they come in numbers and also stand out more.

[Red Mosquito]

Thanks Red Mosquito for the interesting perspective.

To come to Thailand, roll up to a gogo and then go back to your hotel room and be reduced to masturbation is more than a little depressing. I wonder if cheaper end of the indian monger market will make their way to Cambodia. I once had a threesome there for $USD10 in '08 although of course price would have certainly risen.

Is this a bitter indictment on the sexual mores of Indian mongers and their expectations in general that they're satisfied with a 10 minute pump and dump rather than pay more for a full on GFE / PSE which they can then take those memories to their deathbed smiling?

Yes it is depressing indeed PS, but many people. Shopkeepers and small time cloth merchants, who come here would do just that- for them- its a saving. LOL. Using what nature gave us- a hand.

In the brighter cities of Delhi / Mumbai etc, sexual mores are changing, people are more liberated, extra marital affairs (and divorces) are on the rise, promiscuity plays a big part in these cases all along, so sex is not so much of a taboo in changing India- it may not be in your face, but the dish is available and piping hot, you just need to look for it. But at the risk of sounding repetitive, Bangkok attracts an Indian tourist of a different kind and that F*cks it up. Had the ticket prices been equivalent to those for a return trip to US / Australia / NZ, you would have seen the slick Indian at work and he would not hesitate to mingle with the chicks he thinks are the best for him, pay them well (or not, if the chicks fall for him) and have a jollly good time. Education, riches and exposure to diversities in culture, more forward cultures than Indian, if possible are changing the equations and how.

Cheers!

Red Mosquito

[Chill Out]

Good read, mosquito. Thanks.

[Pointy Stick]

If thai bar owners try to exclude all cheap charlies they would have no business. Do not know why Indians got the " Cheap charlie " name. Maybe because tourists from India long time ago could not compete with free spending American servicemen. Nowadays most Indians have money and will spend.

So bar owners really should not discriminite. They are loosing good business because there are plenty of Indians who are going to Thailand than before.

I don't think that that there was ever a mass indian tourist market until now apart from traders and businessmen. It's only in the last 10 years or so has there been a wealthy middle class there.

Bar owners do have a right to discriminate because they are running a business. How long would a bar survive if its clientele brought a beer to share amongst a group of 5 drinking out of straws? The beef is that they can't discriminate wisely and do so wholly on race alone. Maybe if there was a modest entry fee which included a drink then this would sort out the wheat from the chaff.

I was wandering along BR tonight before the thunderstorm broke out and saw a well heeled middle-aged indian couple trying to conclude a deal with a FL there. It's good to know some Indians are up for a little Pattaya style experimentation to spice up their marriage