General Info

[ShooBree]

To demonstrate courage is one thing. But to demonstrate stupidity by ignoring science and the expertise of public health officials is another. The subjective judgments of history in the decades to come will not be kind to either Bolsonaro or Trump.

I'm not a doctor so correct me if I'm wrong; but in human history there's never been a virus that disappeared thanks to people going into quarantine. Short of a vaccine, herd immunity or letting it burn out are our only realistic options. It's looking good in San Marino, no other country have recorded a higher death rate but few other countries can say that they haven't had a COVID-19 death since 23 d of May. I like what I'm seeing, herd immunity for the win.

[WyattEarp]

Nobody comes to ISG to read a long winded political diatribe. As I figured out early into this outbreak, the coronavirus would be the perfect canvass for anyone to project their political beliefs. Everything and anything is to blame with absolute certainty and abject contempt on someone or some system.

[Spidy]

First of all, Greatness lies in the eye of the beholder. It is subjective. You could Google Greatness, then you will find a description of what it means. A hint, a subjective term will always be vague with different interpretations.

People live and they die, that's the way it always been and always will be. What's important is to live a good life while it lasts, that becomes difficult for many when the politicians have forced through a Great Depression.

A politician, like president Bolsonaro, is the leader of his country. The thought that the leader of a country can't be great is easy to dismiss. Churchill was a hero to many just to mention one politician.

Courage is a trait of Greatness, that's something that Bolsonaro showed when he went against the world to do what's right for his country. He is not a young man, yet he shows no fear for this virus, because he knows that the virus can't come close to do the harm that the lockdowns surely will do.

The job losses caused by the financial crisis in 2008 is reported have been 8.8 million, so far over 40 million lost their jobs now in 2020. The situation is way worse now than then. Not only is the crisis we're facing now much severe, it's also deliberately caused by the politicians. The crisis in 2008 was caused by people and states taking too big loans facilitated by greedy bankers.

I will agree to disagree with your claims of what you consider to be greatness with regards to this Brazilian president. So since you've stated you're opinion, I'll state mine and just preface this by saying much like your opinion mine too is subjective.

He is truly a terrible leader with poor leadership management and knows very little about how to run a great country like Brazil, with a rich culture and diverse socio-economic background, with the cultures of the indigenous Indians, Africans, and Portuguese.

He truly hasn't done a thing to make the country a better place, since taking office. Under his mismanagement he continues to divide the country, instead of uniting it. He has conspired with hired hitmen / gunmen to kill LGBTQ elected officials in Rio. Okay, forgive me. Allegedly! He willingly and knowingly allows the killing of Indigenous People and the illegal seizure and logging of their lands. Turns a blind eye to the loggers and big farmers who kill, loot, burn, pillage and rape their way to bigger profits and more money, at the cost of the innocent lives of the indigenous Indians and the deforestation of the Rain forest still go unchecked. With COVID-19 now infecting and killing indigenous Indians (mainly from illegal loggers) with no immediate medical help being available, some are reporting this could amount to genocide.

"What's important is to live a good life while it lasts." Yeah, tell that to the indigenous Indians, as their lives suffer, so we can put a few more dollars in our pockets and buy the next piece of useless furniture from IKEA, that was illegally exploited from their livelihood. And yes "People live and they die, that's the way it always been and always will be. " (Obliviously, as another ISGer would put it, LOL). As Bolsonaro puts it, "So What?" ...Need I say anymore!

Brazil's healthcare system has been decimated since 2017 and expenditure has been slashed by $4.4 billion or a 1/3 of its current budget, thereby leaving any real defense to COVID-19, basically mute. In some regions, it is close to collapse from the sheer number of COVID-19 patients. By not locking down early, the pressures on a decaying health system is taking its toll and impacting other life saving medical procedures and in some cases thereby leaving the vulnerable to die. "he is not a young man, yet he shows no fear for this virus, . ". Yeah, easy to say when he's the president and has access to the best health care available, much like case with the Prime Minister of England. Tell that to an ailing patient in a run-down, deteriorating hospital in Manaus, with no ventilator machine...Yeah no wait, let me say it for you, "So What?

Unemployment and the economy were trending the downwards long before COVID-19 got to Brazil and were close to 2014 levels, pre- COVID-19, under his leadership. The growing fiscal deficit, raised the debt level to 77.1%. The Brazilian Real has plunged to record lows against the dollar and is in free fall and not primarily from COVID-19, but from Bolsonaro's mishandling and mismanagement of COVID-19 and internal affairs. His poor leadership is not instilling a great deal of confidence from investors and powerbrokers worldwide. Economic disaster, all under his leadership.

He is a truly a terrible and irresponsible leader / president when suggesting Brazilians tested positive for COVID-19 should take hydroxychloroquine (Cloroquina), when there is no medical evidence that it will cure COVID-19. He clearly is not medically qualified to give such advise and nor did his medical advisors, of which two have since resigned due to his inept leadership and unhinged, irrational decision making and leadership.

Politicians that ignore virus pathology, do so at their peril (or should I say, the poor, indigent and most vulnerable people do). Two decades ago we had SARS. Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, New Zealand, Australia, Germany, Canada and others responsible world leaders, saw what was headed their way from China in the early days of the COVID-19, before it became a pandemic. To quota a biblical term, "The writing was on the wall". Yet other world leaders choose bury their proverbial heads in the sand. Many of these countries after a hard 2 to 3 month lock-down, have their economies already up and running.

"Courage is a trait of Greatness, that's something that Bolsonaro showed when he went against the world to do what's right for his country"- I wouldn't categorize this as anything thing other than, ignorance in the form of bloviating, pontificating and portraying a good example of, what NOT to do for the good of the country. With the death toll raising, approx. 75K [as of Jul 14th, 2020] (and by all accounts is way higher), it's not what I would associate with any traits of greatness, but if that's your idea of courage as a trait of greatness, so be it. I consider this to truly be a gross mismanagement, horrific ineptitude and terrible leadership, for a president. Yes definitely he's far from perfect, but he's LIGHT YEARS from being great.

So one guy thinks he's an a-hole, another thinks he's great and yet another thinks he's a bumbling inept and terrible political leader. Our subjective opinions aside, I reckon history will have the final say, or maybe (Admin) Jackson will... LOL!

Well I see Jackson has been busy...LOL! So if Jackson decides to delete this post and conversely the last several posts for which neither of us have added any pertinent information related to finding non-P4P or P4P action, then so be it.

PS: What this all basically means is, Bolsonaro's ineptitude is making it a whole lot harder for us to get back to that Brazilian Bunda, that we all love so much. As (I think) another fellow ISGer was trying to convey. Thought I would add this for clarification of relevance. LOL!

[The Cane]

Courage is a trait of Greatness, that's something that Bolsonaro showed when he went against the world to do what's right for his country. He is not a young man, yet he shows no fear for this virus, because he knows that the virus can't come close to do the harm that the lockdowns surely will do.

To demonstrate courage is one thing. But to demonstrate stupidity by ignoring science and the expertise of public health officials is another. The subjective judgments of history in the decades to come will not be kind to either Bolsonaro or Trump.

[ShooBree]

Economies come and go, they will thrive, raise, fall and raise again, while we're here and longer after we're dead and gone. Throughout history most "great" men and women who achieve "greatness" are not politicians, (although some may become one later in life). The mere fact you are even equating greatness with being a politician, tells me you lack the comprehension of the word when applying it to people of outstanding distinction.

I don't even know what that means. By that weak and vague definition, anyone could be considered great. Care to explain?

First of all, Greatness lies in the eye of the beholder. It is subjective. You could Google Greatness, then you will find a description of what it means. A hint, a subjective term will always be vague with different interpretations.

People live and they die, that's the way it always been and always will be. What's important is to live a good life while it lasts, that becomes difficult for many when the politicians have forced through a Great Depression.

A politician, like president Bolsonaro, is the leader of his country. The thought that the leader of a country can't be great is easy to dismiss. Churchill was a hero to many just to mention one politician.

Courage is a trait of Greatness, that's something that Bolsonaro showed when he went against the world to do what's right for his country. He is not a young man, yet he shows no fear for this virus, because he knows that the virus can't come close to do the harm that the lockdowns surely will do.

The job losses caused by the financial crisis in 2008 is reported have been 8.8 million, so far over 40 million lost their jobs now in 2020. The situation is way worse now than then. Not only is the crisis we're facing now much severe, it's also deliberately caused by the politicians. The crisis in 2008 was caused by people and states taking too big loans facilitated by greedy bankers.

[ShooBree]

[Deleted by Admin]

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[Spidy]

I've heard and read the "economies rise and fall and rise" an awful lot lately. While it's a true (and obvious) statement, it skims over the significant human suffering involved in a sharp economic contraction.

Personally I'm not skimming over the "human suffering" involved, but there are those politicians (point and case, US, Brazil, Russia, UK, India) and people in power who do.

When the "banksters and fraudsters" killed the economy in 2008, where was the outcry of "human suffering" that took place? It's a pity and unfortunate we couldn't have calculated the worldwide "human suffering" they inflicted and hold them accountable.

Bottom line is, you CANNOT survive, an economic fall and rise, if your DEAD!! (obviously).

[Combo]

Economies come and go, they will thrive, raise, fall and raise again, while we're here and longer after we're dead and gone. Throughout history most "great" men and women who achieve "greatness" are not politicians, (although some may become one later in life). The mere fact you are even equating greatness with being a politician, tells me you lack the comprehension of the word when applying it to people of outstanding distinction.

I don't even know what that means. By that weak and vague definition, anyone could be considered great. Care to explain?

I've heard and read the "economies rise and fall and rise" an awful lot lately. While it's a true (and obvious) statement, it skims over the significant human suffering involved in a sharp economic contraction.

[Nuupter]

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EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was redacted or deleted to remove sections of the report that were largely argumentative. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. Thank You!

[Spidy]

The bar was set extremely low by other politicians when they decided to destroy the economy because of the Coronavirus.

Economies come and go, they will thrive, raise, fall and raise again, while we're here and longer after we're dead and gone. Throughout history most "great" men and women who achieve "greatness" are not politicians, (although some may become one later in life). The mere fact you are even equating greatness with being a politician, tells me you lack the comprehension of the word when applying it to people of outstanding distinction.

Going against the World to do what's right is pretty much the definition of Greatness.

I don't even know what that means. By that weak and vague definition, anyone could be considered great. Care to explain?

[ShooBree]

You might be abit slow. But that is okay. I did not say your real name is Kevin. I said you are the Kevin version of Karens. Entitled. Irresponsible. Covid dick is a figure of speech. You might be too dimwitted to think that many who died are not young people. Economy needs to go back yes. but safety needs to be practiced which is not. a perfect example is people like you.But what is the point of arguing with you. And no I'm not hiding in quarantine. Just pointing out your stupidity. Anyway this is the end of the conversation, KEVIN.

For the last time, my name isn't Kevin or Karen. Jeez, what's your obsession with Kevin and Karen? It seems extremely unhealthy. Poor Kevin and Karen. I understand that you're not feeling well, but it's not "responsible" to destroy the global economy by inefficient lockdowns. Trying to trigger another Great Depression because you're scared is beyond entitled and irresponsible. Almost everyone who's died from COVID-19 suffered either from old age or / and had underlying health problems.

Omfg, I love you! According to you I'm the problem because I think that the lockdowns weren't a good idea. Now you're telling me that you're not in quarantine?! Lmfao, you got me lost for words. God bless your soul.

This is the end of the conversation, HORUNGE.

[ShooBree]

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[ShooBree]

Really, I mean like really. You really think he's somehow deserving of such superlatives. OK, I guess everyone is entitled their opinion. But I got to say, if this is your idea of "great" then "the bar" is being set pretty low.

The bar was set extremely low by other politicians when they decided to destroy the economy because of the Coronavirus. Going against the World to do what's right is pretty much the definition of Greatness. That doesn't mean that Bolsonaro is perfect or never done anything wrong, but he's truly a great man.

[Spidy]

Bolsonaro is a great man and a great leader, you should grow up and stop posting your childish views which no one gives a fuck about anyways.

Really, I mean like really. You really think he's somehow deserving of such superlatives. OK, I guess everyone is entitled their opinion. But I got to say, if this is your idea of "great" then "the bar" is being set pretty low.

[Nuupter]

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EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was redacted or deleted to remove sections of the report that were largely argumentative. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. Thank You!