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07-18-20 04:23 #3206
Posts: 3040Originally Posted by George90 [View Original Post]
Estimates for the coronavirus lethality have fallen so sharply because calculating the so-called infection fatality rate requires scientists and physicians to know both the total number of deaths and the total number of people infected."
Thus the actual death rate in the USA is estimated now to be between 0.1 % and 0.5% with the great amount of uncertainty still in these numbers due to the fact that no one knows the exact total number of Americans infected and recovered from the disease while we pretty much do know the number of fatalities.
So "while the CDC reports 2. 34 million Americans have been infected with the coronavirus, the actual number of infected and recovered people may be closer to 50 million. CDC Director Robert Redfield told journalists Thursday that the number of cases may be 10 times higher than the earlier 2. 34 million. Thus, the death rate, which would be 5. 2 % based on that 2. 34 million figure, is actually more like 1/20 as high or 0. 26 %. " It is unfortunate that politics has entered into the scientific study of this pandemic. We live in strange times.
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07-18-20 02:13 #3205
Posts: 881Originally Posted by ShooBree [View Original Post]
You need to read about epidemiology and learn exactly what herd immunity is. Please cite a physician who believes that herd immunity can be achieved with less than half the population infected and protected with anti-bodies.
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07-17-20 23:37 #3204
Posts: 1184Originally Posted by George90 [View Original Post]
We also know that those who die are in many cases close to death anyways. People dying in nursery homes is awful, but if you can't even take care of yourself, then maybe your time on earth is over. The healthy survives, that's the key to evolution.
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07-17-20 23:35 #3203
Posts: 1184Originally Posted by Rovnak [View Original Post]
Maybe what you see on Twitter says more about Twitter than anything else. That Bolsonaro would have won the election thanks to being "almost exclusively supported by the evangelicals and wealthy classes" is a rather amusing thought. You spoke about "facts" earlier, I'm curious to see your "facts" regarding this. Did you find a poll on Twitter? What percentage of the Brazilian population belongs to the "wealthy classes"?
Either way I don't see the point of such a statement, Evangelicals and the wealthy have the same right to vote as anyone else. Bolsonaro was democratically elected with the support of the Brazilian people.
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07-17-20 21:40 #3202
Posts: 881Originally Posted by ShooBree [View Original Post]
To reach herd immunity, a population must have 70% to 80% of its members infected. The United States has a population of around 330 million people. Let's use the lower proportion of 70%, that yields 231 million infected Americans. COVID-19 has a death rate between 1% and 2%. That yields deaths in the range of 2.3 million to 4.6 million Americans. And that is the estimated cost in American lives of achieving herd immunity in the United States!
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07-17-20 19:22 #3201
Posts: 2041Originally Posted by Rovnak [View Original Post]
As an American, I can tell you that compliance and tracing even in States with extreme lockdown measures has been difficult. So there is a cultural aspect in addition to the political. I suspect like California and Texas any State that loosens up will see cases significantly increase.
In the near-term, I watch the deaths not just case counts to see who is getting the virus and how well it is being treated. If we have a vaccine by the end of the year, the lockdowns will look like really smart public policy. If a vaccine isn't widely available until later in 2021 or it has some effectiveness issues, the lockdowns will look very differently in retrospect.
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07-17-20 16:17 #3200
Posts: 1127Each individual has their reasons why they decide to read what they read. Read it or don't read it, that is your choice. I encourage everyone if they wish to do, to provide a counterpoints to subject matters that are put forth on this forum, if they feel its warranted. This provides a balance of information w/r to the conversation. That is after all why we come to this community forum.
If this subject matter is not to your liking, move on, don't read it.
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07-17-20 14:21 #3199
Posts: 648Originally Posted by WyattEarp [View Original Post]
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07-17-20 14:15 #3198
Posts: 1184Originally Posted by TheCane [View Original Post]
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07-17-20 14:12 #3197
Posts: 2041Nobody comes to ISG to read a long winded political diatribe. As I figured out early into this outbreak, the coronavirus would be the perfect canvass for anyone to project their political beliefs. Everything and anything is to blame with absolute certainty and abject contempt on someone or some system.
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07-16-20 17:57 #3196
Posts: 1127"So What?" (so called greatness.)
Originally Posted by ShooBree [View Original Post]
He is truly a terrible leader with poor leadership management and knows very little about how to run a great country like Brazil, with a rich culture and diverse socio-economic background, with the cultures of the indigenous Indians, Africans, and Portuguese.
He truly hasn't done a thing to make the country a better place, since taking office. Under his mismanagement he continues to divide the country, instead of uniting it. He has conspired with hired hitmen / gunmen to kill LGBTQ elected officials in Rio. Okay, forgive me. Allegedly! He willingly and knowingly allows the killing of Indigenous People and the illegal seizure and logging of their lands. Turns a blind eye to the loggers and big farmers who kill, loot, burn, pillage and rape their way to bigger profits and more money, at the cost of the innocent lives of the indigenous Indians and the deforestation of the Rain forest still go unchecked. With COVID-19 now infecting and killing indigenous Indians (mainly from illegal loggers) with no immediate medical help being available, some are reporting this could amount to genocide.
"What's important is to live a good life while it lasts." Yeah, tell that to the indigenous Indians, as their lives suffer, so we can put a few more dollars in our pockets and buy the next piece of useless furniture from IKEA, that was illegally exploited from their livelihood. And yes "People live and they die, that's the way it always been and always will be. " (Obliviously, as another ISGer would put it, LOL). As Bolsonaro puts it, "So What?" ...Need I say anymore!
Brazil's healthcare system has been decimated since 2017 and expenditure has been slashed by $4.4 billion or a 1/3 of its current budget, thereby leaving any real defense to COVID-19, basically mute. In some regions, it is close to collapse from the sheer number of COVID-19 patients. By not locking down early, the pressures on a decaying health system is taking its toll and impacting other life saving medical procedures and in some cases thereby leaving the vulnerable to die. "he is not a young man, yet he shows no fear for this virus, . ". Yeah, easy to say when he's the president and has access to the best health care available, much like case with the Prime Minister of England. Tell that to an ailing patient in a run-down, deteriorating hospital in Manaus, with no ventilator machine...Yeah no wait, let me say it for you, "So What?
Unemployment and the economy were trending the downwards long before COVID-19 got to Brazil and were close to 2014 levels, pre- COVID-19, under his leadership. The growing fiscal deficit, raised the debt level to 77.1%. The Brazilian Real has plunged to record lows against the dollar and is in free fall and not primarily from COVID-19, but from Bolsonaro's mishandling and mismanagement of COVID-19 and internal affairs. His poor leadership is not instilling a great deal of confidence from investors and powerbrokers worldwide. Economic disaster, all under his leadership.
He is a truly a terrible and irresponsible leader / president when suggesting Brazilians tested positive for COVID-19 should take hydroxychloroquine (Cloroquina), when there is no medical evidence that it will cure COVID-19. He clearly is not medically qualified to give such advise and nor did his medical advisors, of which two have since resigned due to his inept leadership and unhinged, irrational decision making and leadership.
Politicians that ignore virus pathology, do so at their peril (or should I say, the poor, indigent and most vulnerable people do). Two decades ago we had SARS. Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, New Zealand, Australia, Germany, Canada and others responsible world leaders, saw what was headed their way from China in the early days of the COVID-19, before it became a pandemic. To quota a biblical term, "The writing was on the wall". Yet other world leaders choose bury their proverbial heads in the sand. Many of these countries after a hard 2 to 3 month lock-down, have their economies already up and running.
"Courage is a trait of Greatness, that's something that Bolsonaro showed when he went against the world to do what's right for his country"- I wouldn't categorize this as anything thing other than, ignorance in the form of bloviating, pontificating and portraying a good example of, what NOT to do for the good of the country. With the death toll raising, approx. 75K [as of Jul 14th, 2020] (and by all accounts is way higher), it's not what I would associate with any traits of greatness, but if that's your idea of courage as a trait of greatness, so be it. I consider this to truly be a gross mismanagement, horrific ineptitude and terrible leadership, for a president. Yes definitely he's far from perfect, but he's LIGHT YEARS from being great.
So one guy thinks he's an a-hole, another thinks he's great and yet another thinks he's a bumbling inept and terrible political leader. Our subjective opinions aside, I reckon history will have the final say, or maybe (Admin) Jackson will... LOL!
Well I see Jackson has been busy...LOL! So if Jackson decides to delete this post and conversely the last several posts for which neither of us have added any pertinent information related to finding non-P4P or P4P action, then so be it.
PS: What this all basically means is, Bolsonaro's ineptitude is making it a whole lot harder for us to get back to that Brazilian Bunda, that we all love so much. As (I think) another fellow ISGer was trying to convey. Thought I would add this for clarification of relevance. LOL!
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07-15-20 22:07 #3195
Posts: 6441Courage
Originally Posted by ShooBree [View Original Post]
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07-15-20 17:42 #3194
Posts: 1184Originally Posted by Spidy [View Original Post]
People live and they die, that's the way it always been and always will be. What's important is to live a good life while it lasts, that becomes difficult for many when the politicians have forced through a Great Depression.
A politician, like president Bolsonaro, is the leader of his country. The thought that the leader of a country can't be great is easy to dismiss. Churchill was a hero to many just to mention one politician.
Courage is a trait of Greatness, that's something that Bolsonaro showed when he went against the world to do what's right for his country. He is not a young man, yet he shows no fear for this virus, because he knows that the virus can't come close to do the harm that the lockdowns surely will do.
The job losses caused by the financial crisis in 2008 is reported have been 8.8 million, so far over 40 million lost their jobs now in 2020. The situation is way worse now than then. Not only is the crisis we're facing now much severe, it's also deliberately caused by the politicians. The crisis in 2008 was caused by people and states taking too big loans facilitated by greedy bankers.
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07-15-20 00:57 #3193
Posts: 1184[Deleted by Admin]
EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was redacted or deleted to remove sections of the report that were largely argumentative. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. Thank You!
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07-14-20 17:25 #3192
Posts: 1127Originally Posted by Combo [View Original Post]
When the "banksters and fraudsters" killed the economy in 2008, where was the outcry of "human suffering" that took place? It's a pity and unfortunate we couldn't have calculated the worldwide "human suffering" they inflicted and hold them accountable.
Bottom line is, you CANNOT survive, an economic fall and rise, if your DEAD!! (obviously).