2004 General Reports

[Tomb]

Altman:

Actually, the criteria for "nomination" to the the non-immigrant visa waiver program is less than 3% refusal of non-immigrant visas - in other words that less than 3% of applicants for visas are rejected by the State Dept. That seems rather circular - after all they are the ones doing the rejecting! But that is just the nomination criteria, to actually get included there are other qualifiers, and Brazil falls so far short on most of them it's not even funny.

As a side note, Urugauy was kicked OUT of the visa waiver program last year becuase they had too many overstays, one of the qualifiying cirteria.

Anyway, Lula is dreaming if he thinks that the US will give Brazil a visa waiver.... Bush officially said that the US would "study" the request, but all they have to do is point to their own regulations (didn't anybody in Brasilia read this??):

http://travel.state.gov/how_a_country_qualifies.html


Tom B.

[OldGuy]

Just some info on why the U.S. requires visas from some countries and not others. I talk with the U.S. Consul General in Chile about the requirements for visas, and was told that it is based on the percent of people from a given country who fail to return home when they are supposed to. If the percent from a given country drops below, I believe, 2% failure to return, then citizens of that country are waived from the visa requirement. Brazil is SO FAR over the 2% that there�Ls not a prayer�Ls chance that they will be waived.

[Johan]

Based on the latest news report, i think the harrassment policy instigated by brasil will be continued for a long time. Lula has painted himself to a corner and the only "out" for him is to reinforce this policy to get the most pyschological win for his supporters. today he asked Bush to exempt all Brasilians from Visa requirement like the other 27 rich countries. Bush will definitely not concede to his demands as this may open door to every 900 plus countries. if you think 10,000,000 per year of illegals is too much, wait until we open our borders to everyone. so, Bush will say no and Lula can't be perceived as losing face, so Lula will definitely reinforce the finger printing. As i said before, the scheme is not finger print but to irritate. be prepared to wait at the airport for a day if not a week. may be the next step is strip search? cavity search?

question to all mongers. where do you guys draw the line? finger print is ok. what about strip search? what about body cavity search? at what point do you say, i ain't goin' back to brasil? -

[Johan]

Rio Federal Police....

I bet the cops are just laughing their asses off while having us waiting in line for hours and hours.

[Rio Bob]

A federal judge ordered a halt to the fingerprinting all U.S. visitors to Rio de Janeiro, a requirement that was imposed in response to similar anti-terror steps in the United States, a court official said Monday.

The measures nationwide have delayed U.S. travelers in airports for up to nine hours since Jan. 1. A federal judge in the state of Mato Grosso ordered them after the United States this month began fingerprinting travelers arriving from a number of countries, including Brazil.

Judge Catao Alves of the First Regional Federal Court issued an injunction Friday night after the city of Rio de Janeiro appealed the initial ruling.

The injunction only applies to Rio de Janeiro because it was the city that filed the appeal.

However, U.S. tourists arriving to the city continued to be fingerprinted and photographed Monday morning because officials had not received official word of the judge's decision, federal police said.

[Johan]

Mr. Elmo.

Your suggestion that the finger printing and digital pciture should be handled at the Visa application stage. Totally valid argument but the downside is, there are lots of fake documents and visa stamps showed up. we are not 100% sure the person with the visa is really the person. but then, you can also stretch this argument to infinitum. to be honest with you, as an american, i do feel the pain of many foreigners who come here and have to subject to this indignity. however, the flip side is, they also have a choice to travel, if i was a brasilian, i just won't go to U.S. why bother? there are so many good places to go.....

[Johan]

Mr. Lee and Mr. Elmo.

Why Brazilian needs Visa.
Simple answer. We want to prevent another Mexico situation. Based on U.S. Consulate Visa Section reports, there are so many Brazilians who claimed to be coming to U.S. for tourism purpose but ended up overstaying their Visas or never return. There are applicants who represented to consulate official that their annual income is $6000- but they booked a trip to go to Disney for a total cost of $3000-. Bottomline is, if we waive Visa for Brazilian, we will waive Visa for every country. the way it is, we are alright a big "F" for failure to defend our border especially on the US Mexico side.

Mr. Lee is right to point out that Argentina was on the waiver list until their economy all broke down. the 28 countries are mostly what you may defined as "weathly nations" where we do not expect to see their citizens to come and overstay. Case in point the country of Singapore is on the list. the per capita income of an average Singaporean earns $25,000 as opposed to $36,000 of an american. yes, at the end of the day, it is a matter of rich vs. the poor but also a matter of resources. Brazil being a poor country just does not have all the resources to help us screen out potential terrorists even if they want to. their finger printing bruhaha showed the limited resources they have.

also, the sad fact is, my friend in Riotur told me that Brazil tries to encourage "family tourists" as opposed to the Monger type tourists (nothing wrong with mongering). however, this finger measure actually deter the family tourists a lot more than the mongers. mongers will continue to show up no matter what. also, monger tourists may be a small percentage of total tourists from U.S. the convention, the tour groups, the corporate accounts are the big $.

i don't think U.S. or President Bush should ask Brazil to relax whatever their rule is on American (hey, even if they want to do a strip search on us) as this is entirely within their sovereigty rights. what the state department should do instead is to post a travel warning on Brazil. stating this 6-9 hours wait and let all americans make their own choice. a warning like this will immediately cut off all corporate conventions and major tour groups as many of them are under liability issues. if americans spend $250,000,000 a year in Rio alone, even $100,000,000 will be a strong message.

[Stud_Lee]

Some good news, folks!!! So, if you go to Brazil, enter through GIG!

http://www.expats.com.br/noticias.php?cod=3132

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A federal judge ordered a halt to the fingerprinting all U.S. visitors to Rio de Janeiro, a requirement that was imposed in response to similar anti-terror steps in the United States, a court official said Monday.

The measures nationwide have delayed U.S. travelers in airports for up to nine hours since Jan. 1. A federal judge in the state of Mato Grosso ordered them after the United States this month began fingerprinting travelers arriving from a number of countries, including Brazil.

Judge Catao Alves of the First Regional Federal Court issued an injunction Friday night after the city of Rio de Janeiro appealed the initial ruling.

The injunction only applies to Rio de Janeiro because it was the city that filed the appeal.

However, U.S. tourists arriving to the city continued to be fingerprinted and photographed Monday morning because officials had not received official word of the judge's decision, federal police said.

Published January 12th

[Stud_Lee]

Elmo:

The 27 countries exempt from the fingerprinting and photographing procedures are all part of the Visa Waiver Program and their citizens do not require visas when entering the US, so long as their stay does not exceed three months. Brazilians do require visas to enter, which is why they are included in the new US-VISIT program.

Personally, I wouldn’t mind having Brazilians exempt from visas. For one thing, it would save me a lot of headaches over making my girlfriend (and most likely future wife) a permanent resident here. Brazilians also don’t cause any trouble when they come into the country and are generally hardworking and law-abiding citizens. Why not encourage them to come?

If anything, we should be more watchful of those coming in from Europe. France, the UK and Germany are hotbeds of Islamic fundamentalism. Furthermore, you’ll see much more anti-Americanism in France, Canada, Germany or Belgium (our “allies”) than you ever will in Brazil, Venezuela, Peru or Colombia. Also remember, Zacarias Moussaoui is a French citizen (born in France, as well) and would not have been caught under this program.

To be honest, I think it’s common sense to fingerprint everyone entering the country. You really want to know who is coming in and who isn’t. Visa or not. The main problem is the US visa program which is totally disorganized and a complete mess. I don’t even think the INS or State Department have a fucking clue how to run the show. It’s like they make up rules as they go along. Still, how do we manage to get so many immigrants into this country if it’s so hard to get visas to enter?

As for the article you pasted, I read somewhere else that this policy would be in place for 30 days and is still being negotiated. Though it’s unlikely that Bush will make Brazilians an exemption, and I think Lula is far too stubborn to rescind the order. Brazil really has much more to lose than the US in this case. Brazil-US ties have never been so big, really and this will make things less so.

By the way, wasn’t Argentina part of the Visa Waiver Program until they had their economic crisis?

[Elmo]

Looks like Brazil's finger printing and taking photos of all arriving Americans is here to stay - see press story below. I also read that a visiting senator had his picture and finger prints taken. Given that the U.S. policy on finger prints and photos does not apply to 27 countries (yes - it is not all foreigners, only some), why not make it 28 countries, and exclude Brazil from the list too? That way, Brazilians don't have to be finger-printed going into the U.S. and Americans don't going to Brazil.

Besides don't Brazilians seeking visas for the U.S. have to submit photos with their visa application (plus their passport), just as americans have to send in photos (plus their passport) in order to get a Brazilian visa. Sounds like the embassies and consulates should be handling this at the application stage, not upon a persons' arrival in the country. Whatever - what do I know.

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Brazil to Strengthen Fingerprint Policy
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: January 10, 2004

BRASILIA (AP) -- The Brazilian government will issue an executive order strengthening a new policy of fingerprinting all U.S. visitors in response to anti-terror measures enforced by the United States, news reports said.

The new Brazilian measures have delayed U.S. travelers in airports for up to nine hours since Jan. 1. A judge ordered them after the United States announced it would begin fingerprinting travelers arriving from other countries, including Brazil.

An order making the Brazilian measures an official government policy will be released on Monday, TV Globo quoted government officials as saying. [January 12, 2004]

A draft of the one-page order was made public by Globo.com, the web site of Rio de Janeiro's O Globo newspaper. The order also sets up a team of officials from the justice and foreign ministries to evaluate the procedures.

U.S. Customs, using digital technology, on Monday began photographing and taking fingerprints of arriving foreigners. The only exceptions are visitors from 27 countries -- mostly European nations -- whose citizens are allowed into the United States for up to 90 days without visas.

U.S. officials consider the Brazilian response discriminatory because it affects only American citizens. Tourism officials are worried it will discourage Americans from visiting.

[Johan]

Getting Visa in the Non Consular City.

first off, let me say this again. go to other countries, Argentina, Cuba. don't go to brasil and do the stupid finger printing. you said you are not bothered by the finger printing and people are friendly. question is, are you happy to sit around at the airport waiting up to 8 hours to get your finger printed? if answer is affirmative, then by all means, go there.

as to getting a visa. you can get a visa application form from the brasilian consular website. fill in the information, follow the instruction as listed on the form (a cashier's check) and mail the entire package (with your passport) to your nearest brasilian consulate (in your case may be either Houston or LA). in a week's time, they will mail the passport back to you with the visa stamp).

[Hoof Hunter]

Re: Jaimito Cartero

I also live in a non-embassy city, but found it very expedient and inexpensive to just do the process yourself. I've never heard of anyone being rejected, if they follow the info available on the Brazilian Consulate General site. Here's the LA location (http://www.brazilian-consulate.org/), which has jurisdiction over Arizona.

1. Book your ticket. (Make copies of confirmation of itinerary.)

2. Book your hotel/apartment. (Make copy of hotel confirmation, have hotel address available.)

3. Get 2 - 2" x 2" passport photos

4. Have your passport ready. I would suggest making a copy of it as well.

4. Completely fill out application and keep copy for your records

5. Put your valid passport, the completed application, your passport photos clipped to the application, copy of your ticket/itinerary confirmation, in a folder.

6. Get a US Postal money order for $110 ($100 processing fee, $10 absent fee)

7. Go to US Post Office and pay for Express Mail both ways (fill out your return address info on another Express Mail folder). Your sending your passport in the mail. Better to be safe and be able to track it.

8. Give yourself a 2 week cushion before expecting to receive it back. It's their high tourist season.

9. Use it within 90 days of issuance.

The site is quite detailed. Just follow the steps and send it. I had to send mine to Miami, of all places. I did the above, but screwed up and mailed off the wrong amount (At the time, the fee was $40, by the time it arrived, it was $55. I didn't check the website prior to sending it.) They sent it right back to me. I added the money order, repeated the Express postage steps above, contacted them during their available-by-phone hours to tell them of the need for expedience, and received my 5 yr visa back within 2 business days. Total time length was 7 business days, initial mailing to final receipt by me.

Hope this helps. Good luck!!!

[XXL]

Nibu Raphael?

I have taken part in this forum for some time now, posting regularly and reading other member's posts. But I confess I still don't understand who this chap Nibu Raphael is, what he is supposed to do, whether he is only one person or several persons writing under the same name, why he has his own personal page ...

He seems harmless enough though. At least he doesn't spam nor posts pics downloaded from the web.

xxl

[Kenn]

The city of Rio de Janeiro will file a lawsuit today demanding an end to Brazil's new practice of fingerprinting and photographing U.S. tourists, Mayor Cesar Maia announced Tuesday, and the State Department seconded his complaint.

Maia said the procedures, ordered by a federal judge who was angered by new U.S. screening of Brazilian visitors, discriminate against Americans by treating them differently from other foreign visitors. In addition, Maia contended that Brazil's federal government, not a judge, should be setting the country's immigration policies.

"It is the country that loses because of this immature anti-American policy," Maia said yesterday.

Rio filed suit after Brazilian Federal Police officials took as long as eight hours on Monday to process U.S. citizens who arrived on overnight flights to Brazil from New York and Miami. Some delays continued Tuesday.

That treatment drew a protest from the State Department to Brasilia and criticism from State Department spokesman Richard Boucher.

Boucher told reporters that Brazil's new entry procedures "single out U.S. citizens for exceptional treatment," were "quickly instituted [and] not well prepared" and are causing "significant delays" in admitting U.S. visitors.

That's a big problem for Rio, which in the post-Christmas season tries to welcome about 1,300 Americans a day to Brazilian summer south of the equator.

American and Canadian tourists numbered about 220,000 and spent an estimated $255 million in the city last year. The new screening threatens that business and hurts Rio's image as a modern, welcoming destination for tourists, said Paulo Bastos, the city's undersecretary for tourism.

"These people are not giving a positive message about our city. That's why the city is getting involved," Bastos said. ``This measure was hastily improvised. It prejudices our ability to attract new visitors."

Brazilian Federal Police spokesman Bruno Ramos justified the new procedures for U.S. visitors, saying Americans posed special risks for trafficking drugs and women and stealing wildlife from the Amazon. He declined to elaborate.

Published January 7th

[Jaimito Cartero]

A quick question, and probably a stupid one. For people in the US, what is the best (least expensive, fastest) way to get a Brazilian Visa. I live in a non-embassy city (Phoenix), and was looking at some special fares to GRU.

I know about the fingerprinting thing, and it doesn't bother me too much. I've passed through GRU on the way to EZE last year, and found the people generally friendly.

The fees I've seen so far (Official $100 +$10 service), some visa agencies have a $39-$49 fee for standard service, $49-$79 for rush service, plus fed-ex.