2004 General Reports

[Kinesics]

Ropes,

With going through that trouble which was compensated by sitting by and talking with Brazilian beauty, I hope you have received five year multi-entry visa.

[Ropes]

I just returned from my Visa run for my trip in March.

After battling traffic for 2+hrs just to get to the Brazilian consulate in SF. I had to wait another 3hrs at the consulate. My number finally gets called and I am ready with all the needed info and applications, plus the $100 visa fee. Then the lady tells me that I have to come back in another 3 days to pick up the visa. I said "I just drove 100 miles to get here, can't you just mail it to me?" of course the answer was "NO". I want gripe n' complain like a beeeeeeeotch!!!! But thats just the way it is I guess. The nice part about the whole thing was the pleasent experience of sitting next to a beautiful Brazilian girl from Sao Palo (definitely not a working girl) . She was sweet heart to talk to and oh so pretty. I am now afraid to go to Brazil just for the fact that if I were to meet someone like her, I would not be much interested in the whole mongering scene. Oh hell, what am I saying? Its gonna be good either way, BRAZIL HERE I COME!

[HeadGames]

Johan

Excellent post.

We should all be concerned about our invasion of privacy, wherever it occurs, but especially in a third world country.

[Johan]

Mr. P. me too, i want to drop the topic and move on. btw, i never talked about patriotism here, it's you who used the word. nor did i raise my flag (or middle finger). no need to flag waving. just vote with your feet.

[Paolino]

i meant patriotic feelings in general, not only americans; but i see that you cannot help taking out the little S&S and waving it around to show your love of your country...we know that amis are proud of it...but my point is: what the fock does patriotism to do with some administrative measure a country takes towards your people? it ain't US territory, so what the hell is this complaining all about?

alright, seeing that i add some of mine to this bulls*itting i promise i will stop here, in fact i'll stay outta dis sexion for a wooooaaaaaaile.....

[Johan]

Paolino.

Forgot to repsond to Paolino. the "patriotic feelings" (to quote you), is always with us. we are americans, the love of our country is not a "fade in and fade out" thing....

[Johan]

Elmo. Yes. There is law on the books, no doubt about it. My friend from the local sheriff department (who is a duputy) told me if the cop wants to stop and penalize you, there is always a law on the books to help him achieve his purpose. this happens in good ol' USA everyday, let alone brasil. it is the selective application that shows the true intent. in this case, brasil shows its petty intent. also, this is coming from a police force which many brasilians avoid due to the massive corruption. no wonder they put a law on the book that you must "respect" the cops.... you know what they meant by respect? (R$$) yup, you got it, they need lots of respect$$$. in this case $13,000. two times the annual salary of an average brasilian. can you imagine if you wave you middle finger to your local cop and they fine you $60,000 (two times the annual salary of an average american).

One thing many american visitors to brasil have not been paying attention to is the corruption and identity theft in Brasil. You are giving you own finger print to a country with one of the highest corruption in the world, a police department even the Brasilians avoid. what are they going to do with your finger print? keep 'em in government data base? what measure do they take to protect the security of these finger prints (apparently not good given the amateur nature of their system - e.g. the long waiting line, selective implementation, low tech equipment etc). how long would they keep your finger print? where do they keep it, in a back office with open access to everyone? who keeps an eye on the data? ok, if they discard the finger print data, how they do it? just throw in into the trash box? and finally, who in brasil has authority to view and use your finger prints? what is your recourse if it's been misplaced/misused? here you have the nasty combination of a corrupt government, a corrupted police force and the prevalence of identity theft (just read this board about the number of reports with mongers having their credit ID stolen)? funny, on the day when the pilot was arrested for waving his middle finger, a Brasilian police officer was arrested at Rio airport and they found 35 forged passports and Visas on him attempting to board a US bound flight. this story was hardly reported in the media. the reporters were dazzled by the samba reception party and the free T Shirts.

i am dumbfounded that most americans complained about their Privacy rights but just shrugged and said, "oh, it's just a finger print" when they showed up in brasil. hello?!!

of course i am following Jackson to hang in Argentina. ha

[Paolino]

This part of the forum is getting a little off topic i think... for something like 10 whole pages the only subject is fingerprints and politics, dontcha think that the subject has been discussed through and through? Anyway, the only 2 subjects that cause arguments at the end of any dinner are Politics and religion, so why don't you all get over your patriotic feelings and just let the subject fade out? ...or do you really think that shouting out all your anger and frustration in this forum will change ANYTHING? Just learn to live with this procedure, it ain't YOUR country, so respect that! Nobody has stopped Bush from killing half of the afghan population and blowing 25% of all greenhouse-gasses in the air, neither has anyone stopped Chirac from testing underwater A-Bombs in the pacific islands, nor the Japs from starting to kill the wales again, and so on....so, compared to these facts i think you'll agree that there are more serious topics than this one! and if you really can't shut up about this subject, there are plenty of forums more apropriated to it than a prostitution forum!

Peace!

[Panman]

michael tours:

Here's a good link for exchange rates: www.x-rates.com/calculator.html

[Mad City Dave]

I am planning on coming down to Brazil for 5 days in Rio and then 3 days in Iquazzu. Arriving about mid May

I am an American. I am not overly concerned with the regulations of fingerprinting me and photographing me. I just hope it is is not a long inconveiance.

I do hope to have a good time in Rio. What are items that are "must see" or "must do"? The late night activities are well documented, but what would one do during the day? - Hang Gliding? best restuarants - etc?

[Elmo]

Hi Johan.

I agree that Brazil is just messing with Americans.

However, despite what you state, disrepect to the police is a crime, on the books at least, in Brazil. As the article I posted on 01/15/04 states "Police accused the Miami pilot of showing contempt to authorities, a crime in Brazil, and took him to a federal courthouse." I agree with you that the fact that Brazil charged the pilot with this crime is only because of the current political dispute, they are just messing with americans. The fact that he was fined $13,000 is even more evidence of Brazil's real intentions, harrassment rather than law enforcement. But it is still a law on their books, something I did not know before this.

I posted the article as a warning to everyone, although we are all outraged about the current events, if we do something stupid and act up at the airport, the federal police may mess with us too. I know I cannot afford to be fined $13,000. So, it would appear that if one does go to Brazil, our outrage should be voiced in forums like this, rather than while at GRU or GIG. Another alternative would be to not go to Brazil anymore. I see some members have stated that this is what they will be doing. Hopefully, this entire Brazil/U.S. dispute will soon be resolved, so all of us get back to the important things in life, like those garotas lindas.

Any Americans currently in Brazil noticing a difference in treatment while at the termas and boites? I would guess not, as a real is a real to these garotas, regardless where the money came from.

[Johan]

Disrepectful to Police....

Elmo. Listen, it ain't a crime to be disrepect to police until the cops want to fxxx with you. Brasilians are xxxxing with americans, that's why it's a crime. this is similar to our racial profiling when the cops make any excuse to stop you and search your car.

Tomb.
one more comment on the 3% rejection rate. actually it is no circular logic at all. i surf google.com news and read some stories about brasilians trying to come to US for Visa. according to news report, there are a lot of applicants submitting Visa requests for "non immigrants" Visas, (e.g. tourists, students, research scholars, in fact, any Visas except for Immigrant Visa - aka Green card). the rejection ratio is really high because many applicants do not meet the requirement (and these requirements are not strict at all). For example, there are Brasilian applying for tourist Visa, the airfare alone cost them $1000- and hotel all that cost them about $2500. however, they reported to the Consulate staff that they make only $7000/year with no other source of income. and then there are students wanting to "learn english" but do not have proof of funding to complete schools. there are huge numbers of applicants like this. incidentally, this is not specific to brasil, a buddy of mine works at the US Embassy in Shanghai, it's the same deal in Shanghai Embassy. this may sound arrogant, but citizens of every country want to come to america, they may hate us, but they love to come here and love our green back. you may then ask, why don't we list our the "basic requirement" to screen out applicants who may never be qualified? answer is, illegals have so many tricks in the pocket to circumvent the 'stated rule' and the state department wants to maintain their flexibility. in fact, they went through special training to deal with cases like that.

[Michael Tours]

Hi there !

Do anyone know what is the exchancerate between the Brasilian Reais and the Us Dollar , more or less at this time?? Anyone know about a ok apartment for rent in the copacobana area, for about 20-30 Us dollars (based on a 2-4 weeks stay) Thanks for all the information.

See you

[Elmo]

Looks like the U.S./ Brazil fingerprint dispute keeps getting worse. See A.P. story attached below. If going to Brazil, just grin and bear the entrance requirements, I guess - I know I cannot afford to give Brazil a $13,000 salute! When in Brazil, I have always tried to be very polite and respectful towards the police - I didn't realise it was a crime to show contempt toward authorities. But that makes sense in the land of "Ordem e Progresso".

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brazil fines U.S. pilot $13,000 for alleged obscene gesture

The Associated Press 01/15/04

SAO PAULO, Brazil - An American Airlines pilot was fined nearly $13,000 Wednesday on accusations he made an obscene gesture when being photographed as part of entry requirements for U.S. citizens, officials said.

Brazil imposed the new rules that Americans be fingerprinted and photographed at entry points in response to similar rules in the United States for citizens of Brazil and other countries whose citizens need visas to enter.

The pilot, Dale Robin Hersh, lifted his middle finger while undergoing the security process at Sao Paulo's Guarulhos International Airport, said federal prosecutor Matheus Baraldi Magnani.

Police accused the Miami pilot of showing contempt to authorities, a crime in Brazil, and took him to a federal courthouse.

However, Hersh agreed to pay a fine before he leaves Brazil in exchange for no charges being filed, the prosecutor said.

[Johan]

Tomb.

You are right. I read on NY Times that Brasil's rejection ratio is into the high double digits. The State Dept. due to diplomatic reasons, did not want to reveal the exact number of rejection. No different from the Mexican issue, they said there are only about 4million illegal Mexicans in the U.S. don't think so. Southern California alone has 4 millions -

Also, you are right to point out that it sounds circular logic but this may be one of those cases that the circular logic is sound. don't know if you do your own tax returns. it's like when you have to fill in your state income tax as a deduction and your federal income tax also serves to reduce your state income tax. so, you have to go do a few circular iterations until you get to the "optimum" point. the same concept here. nonetheless, the bottomline is, if the average brasilian makes US$300- a month and an average american (even if you do lowly menial work) makes US$2000. this is 6 to 7 times earning. if i was a brasilian, i'll be GONE.